[Closed] Foot sprain - A&E or MTFU?

Are you likely to die?

Do you have proper travel insurance? The hotel manual should have a medical number

poxy hotel in Sweden

Run the taps long enough and the water will surely run cold.

Treat it, and rest it. They can hurt a while.

I have no idea whether you should go to A&E or not, but you would be better with ibuprofen than paracetamol as it will bring the swelling down.

MTFU

I have no idea whether you should go to A&E or not, but you would be better with ibuprofen than paracetamol as it will bring the swelling down.

It's a sprain, he did it yesterday, he's mobile does that sound like it needs an A&E? Paracetamol is anti inflammatory and a pain killer, Ibuprofen can hinder tendon and bone healing.

I'm back in the UK in four hours so it'll be a local hospital. No, I'm not going to die but last time I checked A&E is not just for the dying... It's more the fact that flexing my toes is incredibly painful because I want to know why.

@gofasterstripes First thing I tried, still comes out lukewarm. 🙁

No, I'm not going to die but last time I checked A&E is not just for the dying...

It's not for 24 old Injuires that aren't causing you issues other than a bit discomfort.

[img] [/img]

Good luck flappy, I turned one of mine over so hard I have never been able to spread my toes since!

This isn't a churlish question for the sake of it, just I'm not familiar with the answer; Do most hospitals have a minor injuries unit, or are they found at GP surgeries?

They can be attached to a hospital or separate altogether I'm not aware of any being linked to GPs.

No wonder A&E is screwed.

Yup.

For future reference, just checked to find a local minor injuries unit.

It actually called an "Urgent Care Service".

That's very confusing! Urgent care sounds like A&E to me.

Drac, there isn't a mino injuries clinic anywhere near me...

They really should rename A&E.

He's had an Accident. That's the A part. Yet every time on these threads Drac you get all indignant and say "unless you're going to die in 20 minutes then it's not appropriate".

I don't wholly disagree, but why don't we rename them Emergency Rooms (for example), they're clearly not where you go when you've had an Accident, unless that Accident is also an Emergency, in which case the Accident part is redundant.

Flaperon - Where are you? What do you consider near?

No wonder A&E is screwed.

My local A&E isn't screwed.

Drac - Moderator
They can be attached to a hospital or separate altogether I'm not aware of any being linked to GPs.

OP - You want to get yourself seen by an ENT consultant.

Maybe you have balance issues?

Isn't this like the second time that you've fallen over in the street and injured yourself in a few months.

I CBA searching for the previous thread but seem to remember you were legging it from Romainan gangsters outside Tesco or summink?

Paracetamol is anti inflammatory and a pain killer, Ibuprofen can hinder tendon and bone healing.

Paracetamol [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol ]isn't a particularly good ant-inflammatory[/url] drug.

Whereas [url= http://www.drugs.com/ibuprofen.html ]ibuprofen[/url] is.

Edit: However it seems you shouldn't take ibuprofen[url= http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Sprains/Pages/Treatment.aspx ] for the first 48 hours [/url]for reasons Drac mentioned above.

Sounds worse than my silly accident from last night, I managed to semi-sprain my ankle while leaving the table to re-fill my glass of Pepsi Max, part way through a meal at the local Harvester pub!

By the time I can ride my bike again, I will have forgotten the concept of riding, at this rate! 😆

They really should rename A&E.

I don't know about anywhere else in the country but in London they're trying to rename them as Emergency Departments rather than A&E. Not sure how much of a difference it'll make though. The thing we have in London is that there's walk-in centres and minor injury units and loads of people don't realise that they're basically the same thing.

I don't know about anywhere else in the country but in London they're trying to rename them as Emergency Departments rather than A&E.

Pretty much country wide to try and get the message over to people.

Ours is but I think it's unique.

There probably is the odd I'd have thought.

My local A&E isn't screwed.

Sounds like it's unique.

Paracetamol isn't a particularly good ant-inflammatory drug.

Whereas ibuprofen is.

Edit: However it seems you shouldn't take ibuprofen for the first 48 hours for reasons Drac mentioned above.

It's almost if I do it for a living.

ED is what most people write on specimen forms in my hospital.
Going after 24hrs + on a foot you can walk on & from your description is better than it was is a bit cheeky imo. But you obviously have every right to go to your local Emergency Dept at the moment. Give it 5 years of ever increasing pressures, costs & cuts & it might be a different story. Get your pennies worth while you can & sod the actual emergency patients

It's almost if I do it for a living.

It is almost. Shame you claimed paracetamol is an anti-inflammatory though...

It is but not great as your frantic googling has shown.

Quick question - I twisted / sprain my ankle on a ride last night. Rested overnight and this morning it is only a little swollen but hurts to walk on.

I will be resting it today but should I strap it up to support it when I walk?

With one fused ankle and one sprained ankle, walking is becoming a challenge. How do you limp on both legs? 🙁

How do you limp on both legs?

One crutch at a time?

It is but not great as your frantic googling has shown.

In fact I was at the doctors with one of my daughters last week and the doctor wasn't sure what the correct dosage of a particular drug was so she checked online. I'd rather a professional did that rather than rely on what they [i]think[/i] they know.

In fact I was at the doctors with one of my daughters last week and the doctor wasn't sure what the correct dosage of a particular drug was so she checked online. I'd rather a professional did that rather than rely on what they think they know.

Did they ask in the bike or chat forum?

Drac - Moderator

"My local A&E isn't screwed"

Sounds like it's unique.

I doubt it. My local A&E at Croydon University Hospital is functioning surprisingly well, but so is the next nearest A&E at St George's Hospital. I also know that the third nearest A&E at the East Surrey Hospital is also functioning and up to the job - they saved my sister's life just over a year ago.

The system doesn't not appeared to be screwed, f*ck*d, or broken. Despite the enormous strains put on it and the constant criticism from some quarters.

In fact I was at the doctors with one of my daughters last week and the doctor wasn't sure what the correct dosage of a particular drug was so she checked online. I'd rather a professional did that rather than rely on what they think they know.

Was it Wikipedia?

The system doesn't not appeared to be screwed,

Was it Wikipedia?

Shall we Google?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/croydon-hospital-hospital-declares-major-internal-incident-over-ae-waiting-times-9960436.html

What do you think? Being a professional and all that.

I'd use a BNF, NICE or my pocket book.

My 2 cents.

Go to AE, you may have seriously damaged ligaments even broken a bone. Do you think a professional sportsmen would take ibuprofen and mtfu ? I say AE as your GP will be worthless, my mother was just asked to wait 12 days for a follow up appointment after an emergency hospital admission

Go to AE, you may have seriously damaged ligaments even broken a bone. Do you think a professional sportsmen would take ibuprofen and mtfu ? I say AE as your GP will be worthless

What's the emergency?

I'd use a BNF, NICE or my pocket book.

Drac - Moderator

Shall we Google?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/croydon-hospital-hospital-declares-major-internal-incident-over-ae-waiting-times-9960436.html

Quote from the link :

[i]The hospital, which handles more than 1,500 emergency patients each week, said it had taken the measures to ensure the safety of those already receiving care in its department.

However it said it had not been forced to cancel any operations.

By declaring a major incident, hospital bosses are able to bring in extra staff - allowing them to open extra beds to cope with the demand.[/i]

Thank you for your googling skills and making my point Drac. As I said.....the system doesn't appear to be screwed, f*ck*d, or broken. Despite the enormous strains put on it and the constant criticism from some quarters.

What's the emergency?

Therein lies the problem. Members of the general public are not really the best placed to be able to self-diagnose what might be an emergency or not

Then go to a Minor Injuries Unit.

Then go to a Minor Injuries Unit.

See

Therein lies the problem. Members of the general public are not really the best placed to be able to self-diagnose

Thank you for your googling skills and making my point Drac. As I said.....the system doesn't appear to be screwed, f*ck*d, or broken. Despite the enormous strains put on it and the constant criticism from some quarters.

Ay? They declare in major incident and you think that's fine.

Members of the general public are not really the best placed to be able to self-diagnose what might be an emergency or not.

It's not a complicated but do get what you mean that people can't use common sense to work out what's an emergency to them doesn't always warrant A&E and there are many other options.

I am sure any right-minded A&E doctor would rather see someone and say 'no, it's just a sprain, take some [insert name of correct drug here] and rest up'

They'd rather they used another pathway.

Mine's definately not an emergency so can I have the STW verdict - strap it up, leave it alone, elevate and ice pack, hut tub and a beer?

[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1525/26414766906_4f0afbb3f5_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1525/26414766906_4f0afbb3f5_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/GfbzVC ]foot[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/89686376@N04/ ]WCA![/url], on Flickr

On a mildly more serious not, Drac if you comment please say the right thing as I kind of trust your judgement but would hate to amputate because you recommended it as a joke but forgot the smiley face

Therein lies the problem. Members of the general public are not really the best placed to be able to self-diagnose

Is it members of the general public with no medical training who operate these minor injury units?

Or possibly they are trained medical professionals?

Even the most basic triage would indicate that this is not an emergency.

What has you MIU said WCA?

I can't examine or diagnose on the web. 'D

But if it helps it's not an emergency.

Even the most basic triage would indicate that this is not an emergency.

Or a bit of common sense.

On MIUs....

I thought I would just research MIUs in my town (admittedly, they aren't something I would automatically think of attending)...

I live in Harrogate and the main hospital in the district is Harrogate hospital, however they don't have an MIU – I would have to go to Ripon (12 miles) or Selby (34 miles) to get to a MIU. So, in that scenario, is the correct course of action to go to the Ripon MIU or to go to the much more conveniently-located A&E at the main hospital in the district which is 2 miles from my house / 1 mile from work / 2 miles from our girls' school.

I would have to go to Ripon (12 miles)

Do you have a car?

Do you have a car?

For what it's worth, our hospital says [url= https://www.hdft.nhs.uk/patients/in-an-emergency/ ]suspected broken bones or dislocation mean a trip to A&E[/url]. The OP could reasonably believe they have a broken bone (as I said before, members of the public are not really able to self-diagnose).

should/could I drive 12 miles?

Well he can walk, so I guess he can drive.

If not, what about a friend or partner who could help out?

Yeah some of them aren't close by Otley might be closer. Not sure if Harrogate has a unit within the A&E too some do have a section to filter off those that can't work out that sore toes isn't an emergency.

Yes but if I (like the OP) had a sprain (that may be a break), should/could I drive 12 miles?

Best walks 2 miles then or maybe he should get an ambulance ask for an R1 response because he can't work out if he's going to die or not.

For what it's worth your local authority says this for sprains or breaks.

Minor Injury Units (MIU)

We have Minor Injury Units located at Ripon Community Hospital and at Selby Hospital. These can provide assessment and treatment for:

Sprains and strains
Broken bones
Wound infections
Minor burns and scalds
Minor head injuries
Insect and animal bites
Minor eye injuries
Minor injuries to the back, shoulder, and chest

[i]What has you MIU said WCA? [/i]

A&E is within hobbling distance (one reason for choosing this house) and MIU is down at the South Hants where parking is a nightmare and extortionate, the queues always seem long and full of wierdos and it is raining.

I thought I would rely on the STW hive mind for diagnosis. They have chosen my car, where to live, tyre size etc. I have lost the power of independent thought 🙂

I also think I have broken or badly bruised my big toe on the other foot but google gave this advice : Most broken toes can be cared for at home and medical treatment may not be necessary.

so I am ignoring that pain

For what it's worth your local authority says this for sprains or breaks.

They also say

Is it an emergency?

If you’re in a life-threatening or serious situation you may need to call 999 for an ambulance or, if it is safe for you to do so, visit the Emergency Department at Harrogate District Hospital independently. Examples of emergency situations are:

Severe chest pains
Breathing difficulties
Heavy bleeding or deep wounds
Loss of consciousness
Serious head injury
Severe allergic reaction
[b]Suspected broken bones or dislocation
[/b]Overdose or poisoning
If a person has numbness or weakness down one side and/or has problems understanding what you are saying or has new problems with their speech

So you can see how it is difficult for members of the public to know what to do with their own hospital is giving them mixed messages.

Hahaha! WCA you're a [s]walking[/s] hobbling disaster.

So you can see how it is difficult for members of the public to know what to do with their own hospital is giving them mixed messages.

He's walking on it. It's not an emergency but I do see how some people can be confused but some simple thought would help.

Toes snap too easily. Look at the various sizes, shapes and angles of the toes in my photo. There may have been some blunt trauma required to generate that profile

Do you reckon it is worth going to the MIU?

I do see how some people can be confused but some simple thought would help.

Suspected broken bones or dislocation

So if you stub your little toe on the bed frame and it hurts a lot, goes black and looks a bit crooked, would you go to A&E to get it treated?

The OP is not in an emergency situation. He can even walk without a stick.

Even if he broken a bone in his foot, why would the A&E be preferable to the MIU for treatment?

Even if he broken a bone in his foot, why would the A&E be preferable to the MIU for treatment?

Do you reckon it is worth going to the MIU?

Worth [s]popping[/s] hopping along.

[i] why would the A&E be preferable to the MIU for treatment? [/i]

Because Accident and Emergency sounds dramatic where as Minor Injury Unit sounds like you are just a wimp.

When I use A&E it is either because I have been stretchered there or am unsafe to drive (A&E is walking distance).

I managed to walk about 1 1/2 miles with a badly broken ankle the first time I did it using my bike as a crutch. Triage nurse said if I could walk on it then it wasn't broken and to go home and rest it. Went back as the swelling was almost causing the skin to stretch and shear and was told I was stupid for leaving A&E without an x-ray for what was a clearly broken ankle. I pointed out I was sent home by triage and it went a bit quiet. A nurse later gave me a photocopy of all the medical notes 'in case I needed them for any dispute'.

Will head down when the rain lightens and see what they say.

To be fair to the OP, it's the sort of minor injury that lots of people go to A&E with (watch a few episodes of 24 hours in A&E and you'll soon see what I mean) and they never seem to get turned away. They might have to wait a while to get treated, but they if you're happy to wait a few hours...............

To be fair to the OP, it's the sort of minor injury that lots of people go to A&E with (watch a few episodes of 24 hours in A&E and you'll soon see what I mean) and they never seem to get turned away. They might have to wait a while to get treated, but they if you're happy to wait a few hours...............

They do but if you watch St G's has a minor injury section where they triage them to. Even if not just because they will see them doesn't mean it's the right place to be, taking up clinicians for a minor injury while more serious cases wait. Ambulances queue as there's no room because someone has a bit of a sore ankle has taken up a room.

[IMG] [/IMG]
Could be worse....

Okay I am back from the South Hants MIU
[b]
Approximate timeline[/b]
20 minute drive there
20 minute wait to see someone
10 minutes consultation with the delightful Claire
20 minutes to drive home

[b]Outcome[/b]
Yes, it appears I have sprained my ankle by twisting it inwards too much. No need for x-ray as there is no sign of bone damage. No need for strapping as this has no proven medical benefit. Rest, elevate, Ice, Ibuprofen and gentle exercise

I am happily reassured but not liking her statement that this might still take 6 - 8 weeks to get better so take it easy.

[b]

Not Serious Piss Take of the advice given[/b]
X-Rays are used to see if there is any bone damage but I can't see any so you won't get an x-ray
Rest your ankle and do these exercises
Keep you ankle elevated while walking around as normally as possible
We don't offer strapping or support for sprained ankle as these are not medically necessary but try to wear strong shoes or boots to support the ankle

Nice clear and unambiguous advice there then

😉

Video of hopping goose step please! 😆

[i]Video of hopping goose step please! [/i]
Not until I have finished resting and doing these exercises. I can't do two things at once...

For future reference, just checked to find a local minor injuries unit.

It actually called an "Urgent Care Service".

Two days later, I went to see a sports physio who actually fixed the problem.

Nice clear and unambiguous advice there then

And no 4 hour wait. It's almost as if it that's how it's supposed to work. 😀

Yup they can have different names.

OP should definitely have called an ambulance. He's a taxpayer and he pays national insurance after all, he should get full service. Daft to risk driving with a sore ankle; what if he'd crashed?

And his partner can't possibly take him they go out on a Friday night, it's their only night all week they've worked hard all week.

Also a. It of a drive from a hotel in Sweden.

Drac, you don't always need to think of the defensive answers, sometime comments are dumb enough/tongue in cheek enough for the simple reply.

Ps leg now elevated with some frozen artichoke cooling it while watching re runs of MASH. How much more can I do to recover? The colours are prettier now as well

Drac, you don't always need to think of the defensive answers, sometime comments are dumb enough/tongue in cheek enough for the simple reply.

V8 isn't being serious. .

V8 isn't being serious

Edit; oh and his partner could follow in the car, because, you know, you always get seen quicker when you're rushed in by th'ambulance... 😆

Drac - Moderator

Ay? They declare in major incident and you think that's fine.

No I don't think it's fine. I said I think that the system isn't [i]"screwed",[/i] despite the enormous strains put on it. The comment in your link suggests precisely that :

[i]However it said it had not been forced to cancel any operations.

By declaring a major incident, hospital bosses are able to bring in extra staff - allowing them to open extra beds to cope with the demand.[/i]

BTW in an example of staggering irony I came off my bike less than a couple of hours ago, after phoning 111 they have booked me in for 11 o'clock this evening at the out of hours GP services at Croydon University Hospital, with a suspected broken collarbone - I kid you not 🙂

I suspect that they will send me for an x-ray and possibly treatment at the A&E department. I'll let you know if the 'major internal incident' declared at Croydon University Hospital is helping them to cope or whether they are "screwed" 8)

Having to declare a major incident, which as the name suggests, is kinda reserved for you know, incidents that are unusual and major in nature, in order to deliver the core product sounds pretty screwed to me.

I wonder what they'd do if they actually had a major incident to deal with whilst they were dealing with their internal, pretend major incident? Would they declare an EXTEREMELY major incident, enabling them to crack open the clone pods, and start feeding the staff amphetamines to enable them to work triple shifts? I'm with Drac. If a Trust is declaring MAJAX for the day job, it's in dire straits.