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Downloaded Flightradar24 after it was mentioned on here, love it very addictive just following aircraft (sad I know). The flat earthers might like this question but I’ve yet to see an aircraft fly over the poles. Is there a reason or is this a stupid question?
I *think* there are regulations about travelling over inhospitable areas that are too far from appropriate safe airports? Also I *think* that routes over the poles are longer (for anywhere you would normally want to fly)
Thanks, makes sense.
This is a good read on the topic- https://www.cntraveler.com/story/why-airplanes-sometimes-fly-over-the-north-pole
They probably aren't doing it *now*, but apparently they do, these days. From Wiki:
Arctic polar routes are now common on airlines connecting Asian cities to North American cities. Emirates flies nonstop from Dubai to the US West Coast (San Francisco, Seattle and Los Angeles), coming within a few degrees of latitude of the North Pole.[15][16] Air India started operating its non-stop flight: AI-173, between New Delhi (DEL) and San Francisco (SFO), on August 15, 2019, that flies over the North Pole.[17]
I was matching the progress of a plane I could see out of my spare room with FR24. I live in Bristol, and by the time it disappeared behind the house over the road, it was roughly above Porthcawl, some 48 miles west. Was pretty surprised it would be that far!
My 20 year old daughter who has no interest in engineer or science or any other related topic is similarly fascinated by Flightradar. Very odd! Much excitement last week when she was follow Google's Internet balloon UFO things around Africa. 🤷♂️
Hi yes I’ve just been tracking a ‘ball’ at 64000ft travelling at 2 knots NE of Salt Lake City. You start looking at everything!
Wont be many flights a the moment over the poles but the are regularly scheduled under normal circumstances.
The only restrictions on aircraft operations is called ETOPS and only applies to twin engined aircraft (Extended Twin OPerationS). It stipulates the amount of time an aircraft can fly on one engine from an airport it can land at. So if an aircraft has 180 minutes ETOPS then it can fly 180 minutes single engined operation from an airport it can divert to.
Over the years the ETOPS has increased as engines and aircraft have become ever more reliable and the engines for the A350 has achieved 340mins ETOPS which is enough for the aircraft to operate unrestricted anywhere over the globe - so can fly a more direct route from departure to destination airports saving tons of fuel every flight and million of pounds of fuel costs every year for the airline. Not sure the airframe has achieved the same level of clearance, but really I can't think of a route in the global network that would require that level of ETOPS is ultimately unnecessary.
One of the best things of FR 24 is the feature where you can track where the aircraft has been flying over the past week. These airlines don't half sweat their assets under normal circumstances.
Long distance flight use the great circle routes which don’t actually go over the poles, as said above, but to fly over cold, inhospitable areas! When I flew from London Heathrow to LA, I flew over Greenland, so vast tracts of bugger-all underneath for quite some time.
Plus, flying from LA to New Zealand, which the plane I flew on was going to do next involves flying over possibly the biggest, most inhospitable stretch of water on the planet.
Plus, flying from LA to New Zealand, which the plane I flew on was going to do next involves flying over possibly the biggest, most inhospitable stretch of water on the planet.
Well not really, to a point a left term would have you landing in North South America, and beyond that there’s plenty of airports if needed Hawaii, Fiji etc... All in a straight line to NZ
Flightradar24 Is so passé, daahlings - https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/ is where its at.
(Don't think available as an app but does show military aircraft.)
What hh said, much better!.
As for flying over inhospitable areas, much of it is down to ETOPS rating, I believe.
My 20 year old daughter who has no interest in engineer or science or any other related topic is similarly fascinated by Flightradar.
My Mum really likes it as well. She's not far off the flight paths for Heathrow, Gatwick and City so she likes sitting in the garden seeing what each plane is and where it's come from.
I get to play with the real thing. 😎
Air traffic controller, or as my aircraft engineer mates say, the one who turns the traffic lights in the sky on and off. There's a reason they're engineers.......
Best to cycle between a couple of different apps as no one shows everything, I upload data to Flightradar24, they sent me the gear to fill a hole in coverage where I live. At the moment I would recommend Plane Finder app, it is showing a good selection of military aircraft these days that I find more interesting than civil stuff.
If you look at Flight radar in the middle of the night you and look at the English channel near Dover can see a Beechcraft KingAir recon aircraft (it flies out from the Midlands) as well as a "civilian UAV" based at Lydd that tracks back and forth looking for (I assume) illegal immigrants trying to cross from Calais.
Or they're possibly trying to catch those who have exceeded their booze and ciggies quota in the Calais Hypermarkets...
Qatar Airways flights to North America go over the polar ice cap. It must be unusual because the flight staff out here had to have specific training in the event of a crash.
Well not really, to a point a left term would have you landing in North South America, and beyond that there’s plenty of airports if needed Hawaii, Fiji etc… All in a straight line to NZ
Good point, just ‘cos Hawai’i is part of the US, doesn’t mean it’s close to it, browsing Google Earth shows just how far out in the Pacific it really is!
Well it’s not that simple. The distance the next airport capable of the aircraft landing at has to be within the ETOPS restriction so aircraft can’t currently fly over the Pacific in a ‘straight line’ (actually the great circle). So aircraft will have to deviate from that straight line to ensure they remain within the ETOPS restriction. For example Air New Zealand operate on something like 270 minutes ETOP so the aircraft cannot be more than 270 minutes flight time on one engine from an airport it can divert to and safely land at. And flying on 1 engine is very slow as the aircraft has reduced power, can no longer maintain normal cruise altitude and speed, so has to descend to a lower altitude where the air is thicker and drag significantly greater, And drag is increased yet more as the aircraft has to fly with rudder engaged to balance out the yaw due to Asymmetric thrust. All of this slows the aircraft down even more, so even 270 minutes ETOPS won’t give you a particularly big distance in terms of miles your flight path can deviate from a suitable divert airport.
There are some airports on islands in the middle oceans or in deserts in the middle of nowhere that are kept live and operational purely to act as a divert airport to enable more efficient and faster flight paths.
Currently no twin aircraft can fly ‘direct’ on the very longest routes over the Pacific. You need 340mins ETOPS to do that but no aircraft has achieved that as yet. I think 270 or 315 mins is currently the highest level of ETOPS out there.
Good point, just ‘cos Hawai’i is part of the US, doesn’t mean it’s close to it,
Indeed. I was supposed to go on a work trip to Hawaii in April, and was quite shocked to find it a 5-6hr flight on a 737/a320 sized plane from the US West coast.
Watched the Airbus 4 prop 'Hercules' type thingy on Sunday out of Brize Norton doing pretty circuits in the sky around Prestwick then around Liverpool presumably testing ILS. Suppose it keeps them occupied! Showed up on F24.
Airbus A400M Atlas
There's a U2 currently heading out over the N Sea, out of RAF Fairford. 57000ft and climbing!
The Antonov AN-225 (worlds biggest aircraft) is also going to be heading over the North of England fairly soon.
https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/?icao=508035
There’s a U2 currently heading out over the N Sea, out of RAF Fairford. 57000ft and climbing!
60,000ft now, heading for the Danish coast. I love the little icons.
Yesterday there was a C17 that did almost an entire circuit of the UK: all the way up the Irish Sea, turned right over north of Scotland and then all the way back down to Brize Norton down the east coast.
I live in Bristol, and by the time it disappeared behind the house over the road, it was roughly above Porthcawl, some 48 miles west. Was pretty surprised it would be that far!
I'm in Redland and have a view from my desk over to the east. On a super clear day i tracked a plane at 38,000 ft en route to Paris that i could still see with binoculars halfway across the channel beyond Bournemouth!
After watching the U2 earlier today I did some reading and found it was one of only three US military plane designs that is still operational today. So I was chuffed to find another one of the veterans in the sky this evening KC-135 Stratotanker Flying loops between Denver and Texas
The U2 Dragonlady is around sixty years old now, and ongoing improvements in the surveillance gear it can carry means the service life has been extended and is been extended into the foreseeable future, because the electronics and cameras are so much lighter, and draw a lot less power, so the plane can carry more fuel without stressing the airframe, so can fly ever more extended missions.
The Global Hawk drone fleet, which was going to be extended and the U2 taken out of service, but that has been reversed, and the U2’s upgraded.
Last time I went up to check out Cotswold Camping I was out in the car park and could hear a jet close by, looked around and there was a Dragonlady on final approach into Fairford; sadly I literally saw it for about five seconds, had no time to get my phone out for a photo. ☹️
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19462/lockheed-is-proposing-a-major-triple-intelligence-upgrade-for-the-u-2-spy-plane
I use a website called planewatch. Interesting to watch the flight path of the local copper chopper. Makes me wonder if they're looking for heat sources from people's hydro grows!? Assuming that would be very easy with the thermal cameras they have?
With modern lights, they're putting out a lot less heat than they used to. I expect.
I had a look at FR24 yesterday and amazed at the amount of passenger flights which seem to be operating around UK and Europe. I appreciate this is still “less” but wow.
Same Kryton, I was expecting a handful of planes in the sky but there were loads.
, I was rather surprised!
Numbers of flights have increased from peak lockdown. Noticing more contrails in the sky as a result. Been fortunate to see a few C17s flying over north Lancs of late, usually yank planes.
edlong
Subscriber
With modern lights, they’re putting out a lot less heat than they used to. I expect.
Modern lights? Excuse my ignorance...But don't those kind of lights get super hot? Or are newer lights better made and better cooled?
There's a big exercise this week out on the North Sea.
Look for QID618 for KC135 refuelling circles
The flat earthers might like this question but I’ve yet to see an aircraft fly over the poles.
You don't need to see one fly over the poles to see the round earth. Why else would all the transatlantic flights fly in a curve northwards then south again?
There's often refuelling stuff out over the N Sea. Look at this site and click on the blue diamond shaped thing at top right, you can then scroll to the bottom and select to show the UK A2A refuelling areas; unsurprisingly the tankers just do loops in these areas for most of their days. You never see the planes coming in behind them to fill up though. You can also select just military aircraft (click the U at the top) if that's your thing (done that before though!)
Heard a decent sized prop plane over the house yesterday and thought I would check F24 and it didnt exist. Seems a few in recent days dont show on the app, unless I am doing something wrong. Also watching a plane come into Heathrow , its height was counting down to zero, then went back to 600 ft and then started to count back down again. Either its not right or I am glad I wasnt on that plane !
its height was counting down to zero, then went back to 600 ft and then started to count back down again
There was a Cessna on ADSB a few days ago at 96,000ft.
It was briefly the highest aircraft on the planet. If that wasn't a mistake I'm also glad I wasn't on it!
Thread resurrection!
I was just watching the skies in Aus and noticed this. Singapore air A380 bimbling it’s way from storage in Alice Springs to Sydney for recommissioning I presume.
A unique flight caused by unique circumstances
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Off to look at Alice Springs on google now!
Wow had no idea, Apple maps shows it well.
“Snakes in a plane”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/01/there-could-be-snakes-planes-mothballed-by-covid-prepare-to-fly-again
Many of those A-380’s are being decommissioned and scrapped! Doesn’t seem like they’ve been around for very long at all, but the market’s changed dramatically, and there isn’t the demand any more for such huge airliners (the very word says it all!), smaller, more economical planes can manage huge distances non-stop now, so they’re, almost literally, dinosaurs.
@CountZero - that was the plan but now most of the airlines have decided to get their A380’s back up and running and are recommissioning rather than decommissioning them now.
A lot of the short flights being undertaken are training flights to defamiliarise crews with them 🙂
That Cessna is heading back there again right now. Maybe he's going to write the second part...
I wonder what Ryan's done to warrant that public shaming.