[Closed] Flag poles

Hammer and Sickle....

Then have a chorus of the Red Flag...

Or the EU flag?

I like to fly the Hammer and Sickle at the end of my road as it confuses the gammons.

Just as well you don’t live in Scotland or Wales then if you you don’t like national flags. Or is it just the union flag you dislike?

Any flag with Arabic writing on it would be a good choice imo. Preferably a black one.

if you you don’t like national flags.

I think most people make a distinction between not liking national flags and not liking a 4.5 metre flagpole planted in a front garden.

Something like this?

Just as well you don’t live in Scotland or Wales then if you you don’t like national flags. Or is it just the union flag you dislike?

Really, do you think there's more routine flag waving there than in England?

As an Englishman living in Scotland for the last six years, yes, there definitely is more of it up here.

Buy a few small variations of European flag - actual small flags, stickers, A4 printed paper.

Just continuously leave them where you can - posted to him, stuck on his car boot, left flapping where they see it all the time.

It will raise a smile with you every time you do it. And it will irk him beautifully...

The union flag is not a national flag;
national flag of england is that of St George who was, apparently, not English; it's claimed his ethnic origins are Arabian.
It appears to be acceptable to fly the union jack or flag of St George with no fear of recriminations or verbal abuse.
Nearly 50% of those who voted in the referendum wanted to remain; one of the reasons they don't fly the EU flag or show support in other ways is because of the abuse that will result.
In today's political environment flying the union jack is saying...if you're not white and 'english' you're not wanted here so ---- off to wherever you came from.
I could be wrong - flying the union jack could be a demonstration of your support for the political union which it represents - but I think that's highly unlikely.
OP, why not ask your neighbour what his union flag stands for?

I hope that he's flying the Union Flag the correct orientation. Unless he's sending out a message that he needs rescuing.

why not ask your neighbour what his union flag stands for?

Why does it matter what his neighbour's union flag stands for?

The OP feels that if he can't erect a fence higher than 2 metres his neighbour shouldn't be allowed to erect a 4.5 metre flagpole.

Which imo is a very fair point.

Tbh if you are allowed to erect a 4.5 metre flagpole without specific planning permission I am slightly surprised, I know that large signs in front gardens require planning permission.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flying-flags-a-plain-english-guide

LOL at the title ^^^ Why does it need to be plain I wonder? We should start a petition requiring translations of this to all languages of the world.

You don't come across as being stupid but...

Why does it matter what his neighbour’s union flag stands for?

...is a dim question.

Start with xenophobia

Read my post fully; cherry picking a few words to support whatever you want to say is easy but pointless.

I love the very first line. As if those foreign types just wouldn’t understand…

Flags are a very British way of expressing joy and pride – they are emotive symbols which can boost local and national identities and strengthen community cohesion.

Right, it’s very nearly the height of the marching season, get ya flags out for some community cohesion.

Thanks Kelvin but that didn't answer my question. Admittedly I only quickly glanced but the only relevant bit I could notice was "Consent is required if the flagpole is in a controlled area", I have no idea what a a controlled area is. A residential area?

An area with additional controls on planning. Generally not shit holes. Ostensibly to protect “heritage”, but also a useful way to stop new money bring down the neighbourhood. 😉

…is a dim question

Fair point. I didn't think the OP was interested in the motive behind his neighbour wanting to erect a 4.5 metre flagpole, I thought he just didn't want the flagpole erected. But perhaps I'm just dim and misunderstood what the issue was about. It is quite late after all.

I didn’t think the OP was interested in the motive behind his neighbour wanting to erect a 4.5 metre flagpole, I thought he just didn’t want the flagpole erected.

our Flag shagging halfwit of a neighbour’s new union jack monstrosity

Yeah I got that he was annoyed.

To be fair so would I be.

EDIT : And yes if he has a word with his neighbour to find out what his motives are then perhaps he will feel a bit more happy and relaxed about the whole issue. Although personally I think that is unlikely.

There are some people who really love flags, and put different ones up for different occasions. I sort of get that. But the always flying the national flag types… I’d avoid. In any country. Seeing one flying outside my house all the time would wind me up quite irrationally. Unless on a church tower or something.

Ernie, perhaps you are dim; who knows, who cares?
Not me, that's for sure.
Same could apply to me; who cares?
As you, correctly, say - it's late; in the UK that's not just from a chronological perspective.
From anything other than a chronological perspective, it's too late; UK has now run out of runway.
A failing/failed former colonial enterprise, trying to live on former glory; capabilities and relevance being diminished daily by johndon and his polyps.
Off now to polish my Irish/EU passport; will buff myself to sleep.

Ernie, perhaps you are dim

Ah originally it was just the question that was dim, now it turns out that it might be me that's dim.

Well again fair point, I can see the logic behind it, ie, if someone asks a dim question then it's likely that they themselves are dim.

Anyway I hope the OP takes up your great suggestion and he has a nice little chat with his neighbour to find out why he's flying a huge union flag from a big ****-off flagpole stuck in his garden. Perhaps he is just likes the wonderful combination of blue, white, and red, colours?

Tell him he's flying it upside down...
When I lived in Bermondsey, every day I passed a pub with a massive union jack spread across the front, with windows and doors cut out. It was upside down. I wanted to pop in and tell them but didn't have the balls.
But maybe upside down means something else, like the missus is at her sisters,,, or we're sinking...

It's a dog's dinner of a flag anyway. Brazil's would be good!

Just as well you don’t live in Scotland or Wales then if you you don’t like national flags

I only know of one flag flyer in my town of around 15k folk. Greg, 46, Scotland. 😁

In today’s political environment flying the union jack is saying…if you’re not white and ‘english’ you’re not wanted here so —- off to wherever you came from.

I hate that a Scot for example can fly the saltire without it being a xenophobic, racist statement but a cross of St George or a Union Flag immediate makes you a racist gammon. How do we undo that?

But back to the OP - presumably if a flag pole and a flag results in some disturbance is there any grounds for complaint - if it spoils your outlook or makes noise in the wind?

In reply to the original question a poplar tree. If you want to mirror the flagpole effect go for a white barked Snow Queen birch. If you don't mind a bit of spread and want to go international then try a Tibetan Cherry, again for its ornamental bark.

Thanks for the comments, they've raised a smile.
Yes he's spoiled our outlook, I'm annoyed, but the missus is absolutely raging. It's the inconsideration to be honest. Our sitting room is on the second floor, we're on a hill and he lives below us in a bungalow. We have a full height window to make the most of a very nice view across the valley we live in and are mostly screened from our neighbours by trees, except for a 2 metre gap, which is where the flag is erected. He'll never even see it. We can't not see it.
I've politely asked if its just a temporary thing while the euros are on but no, it's permanent, and apparently there's nothing he can do about it as once you've put a flag pole up it's impossible to take it down again. He has lowered it by about a metre which is better but it's still right in our face.
In general I just don't get the flag thing. Occasionally raising them on particular dates is fine, as a permanent feature they're hideous.

My neighbour flys a flag.

At the end of his drive.

Usually a skull and crossbones with the words time flies when your having fun around it.

Occasionally help for heroes and other times Feliz navidad.

I like it it's a bit of fun. Helped by the fact we are not in a residential estate setting.

we live in and are mostly screened from our neighbours by trees, except for a 2 metre gap, which is where the flag is erected. He’ll never even see it. We can’t not see it.

I suspect he knows this and you have inadvertantly upset him at some point.

I suspect he knows this and you have inadvertantly upset him at some point

Possible but we've always exchanged xmas cards and have been perfectly friendly. If we've done something to upset him I have no idea what it is

My dad’s ‘Brexit loving, Boris is doing his best’ neighbour is flying his union flag upside, to mention the irony that it is a distress signal will be saved for a special occasion.

national flag of england is that of St George who was, apparently, not English; it’s claimed his ethnic origins are Arabian.

Well St Andrew was not Scottish nor St Patrick Irish. Doesn't stop them celebrating their nation and flying their flags without fear of being abused. And St Georges origins are Greek apparently, but born in Turkey.

I have read elsewhere that St Patrick was British and taken as a slave by Irish slavers, though Wikipedia has him down as a 'missionary'.

Either way these people are adopted as symbols that represent the values of nations. The actual history, or myth or legend of the actual people are largely irrelevant.

Think those assuming strangers who fly the English flag or Union Jack are bigoted racists without knowing anything about them are probably the actual bigots.

Gimme a country that's red, white and blue
Gimme the British way, honest and true
Gimme the chance to be one of the few
Gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme
Gimme a nation where people are free
Free to do and free to be
Free to screw you before you screw me
Gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme, 'cause
I'm alright
I'm alright
Union Jack
(Fly the flag, fly the flag)
Gimme a Britain that's got back the Great
A race of winners not cramped by the State
And only the helpless get left at the gate
Gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme, 'cause
I'm alright
I'm alright
Union Jack
(Fly the flag, fly the flag)

Do the question is what have the planning department/environmental health or whoever it is had to say about it?

Or "what massive outdoor speakers to play "Ode to Joy" on a 24/7 loop?"

Just as well you don’t live in Scotland

I'm calling bullshit on that.

There may be more saltire stickers etc but fully regaled pubs, hanging out windows etc. England has got that bellendery sewn up.

are probably the actual bigots

That took a while longer than normal to pop up.

Anyway, there are constant attempts to “take the flag” to mean something more inclusive, rather than a rejection of catholics and people who are bilingual, but it always seems to be one step forward to steps back. There is an ebb and flow to it, but whenever we start to make progress, say the 2012 Olympics, it never seems to be maintained for long.

Y’all want to visit Belfast right now. You just don’t know about flag-shagging till you’ve visited NI in June/July/August…

Oh well, looks like I’m forking out for something high,fast growing and light blocking to screen us

My brother and sister in law have just planted a fairly mature tree to block out a flagpole in a neighbours garden, although it is a slow growing tree that won’t grow too tall or take too much light it is in exactly the right place to block the flag when looking out of their kitchen window.

I think marching season has already been mentioned 😀

Does your neighbour lower their flag at sunset? Do they raise it at sunrise? Poor show if not. In my youth, "rescuing" neglected flags was a fairly standard order of business for a Friday night out on the lash. If your neighbour's flag remains in place more than a month please come back here and loudly lament the drop in standards of the youth of today.

I think it's kinda sad that showing the Union Jack is always taken as a sign of jingoism and rabid Brexiteers.

The UK has one of the more interesting flags in the world, not one of these boring 3 colour stripe ones in various orientations. Being a remainer and patriotic are not necessarily exclusive.

Flying an EU flag would be a political statement. Flying a Union Flag shouldn't really have anything to do with your thoughts about the EU.

(FWIW, I'm a remainer!)

I like the Union Jack tbh but I wouldn’t fly one in my garden, not routinely anyway. I don’t think it’s quite up there with the St. George’s Cross yet, and hopefully never will be. It is about context though I think. There are occasions when I guess I might want to fly a UJ. There’s no occasion when I’d ever want to fly a St. George’s Cross…

Quite like seeing a flag flying. Not blocking my view. A bit sad that you are automatically assumed to be racist if you have one flying. Then again the gammon term is quite abusive though funnily acceptable in STW.

I'm happy for him to fly whatever flag he wants, with whatever political connotation it might imply, as long as he sticks it right outside his own front window where he can appreciate it as often as we have to.

Perhaps I should buy and insure a panel van, paint a badly drawn union jack on the side and then dump it right outside his house for a year. Perfectly legal.

Just sneak out and take it down repeatedly till he gives up..
Flying your national flag should just imply you like your country suggesting it is only for those of the right leaning politics gives in to that belief. Odd British point of view never seen as an issue when I’ve lived in America or Norway where average people love a bit of flag flying at home.

Y’all want to visit Belfast right now. You just don’t know about flag-shagging till you’ve visited NI in June/July/August…

And ffs don't buy a house with a gable end....

Deleted

As for the fence issue; can you install multiple flag poles in front of each fence post, then install fence coloured flags on each pole?

As for the fence issue; can you install multiple flag poles in front of each fence post, then install fence coloured flags on each pole?

😀 That's a brilliant idea.

Is the issue not which flag but where it is flying for the OP?

Anyone flying a national flag in their garden is a dick (IMHO of course).

Did anyone see the proud English soccer fanatics with their Union Jack at the Scotland match?

Couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

Is the issue not which flag but where it is flying for the OP?

Correct.

Anyone flying a national flag in their garden is a dick (IMHO of course).

Also correct (IMHO)

I dont understand any kind of patriotism/nationalism etc. Its just not logical to me - I had no choice in where I was born.

I always refer back to Bill Hick's take on the subject - maybe stick a picture of your parents ****ing on the national flag, see how proud that makes you feel.

Anyone flying a national flag in their garden is a dick

I'm sure you would make an exception for the flag man of Pixham Lane next to Box Hill. He has a very large flagpole planted in his front garden and every day he flies a different national flag.

Every week as my CC cycles towards his house on the way to Box Hill we wait on anticipation to see what flag he is flying and to try to figure out which country it might represent (he flies flags from the most obscure countries)

It is both entertaining and educational. I can't imagine that any of his neighbours object. His dedication to the task which he has set himself is impressive, it's been going on for years, I have no idea how many.

Yeah, he's cool. And so is Shelden Cooper (although he's not real).

Did anyone see the proud English soccer fanatics with their Union Jack at the Scotland match?

Couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

Maybe they were just being friendly to their northern visitors. I mean, aren't we supposed to celebrate inclusivity??

As an Englishman living in Scotland for the last six years, yes, there definitely is more of it up here.

As a Scotsman living in Scotland - there's been more of it up here in the last decade (and "55" flags were to be found adorning many areas where you'd double check you'd locked your car before fixing a puncture) - but I've definitely been in bits of England which are like that. It's still very much the exception to see a flag pole on residential property. Friday was the first time I've seen saltires being flown from cars - something we definitely saw with England flags many years ago.

I’ve politely asked if its just a temporary thing while the euros are on but no, it’s permanent, and apparently there’s nothing he can do about it as once you’ve put a flag pole up it’s impossible to take it down again.

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic? But surely it's 10 minutes with an angle grinder? Would the pole alone upset you if nothing was flapping on it? Unless he's spent a lot I'd guess within a year the rope, block at the top will have failed anyway. They've always struck me as though to be safe in high winds you would need to set it very deep in the ground. He may not need planning - but if its not well fitted building control might show and interest. The problem is he'll never "hear" your concerns about the flag pole, only that you object to whatever he thinks flying a flag says.

Whereabouts in the country are you? Is there any scope to repeatedly replace his flag with the wrong one in the middle of the night? Lancashire/Yorkshire, Devon/Cornwall, Liverpool/Everton, United/City, etc?

Sign him up to a "Flag of the week" subscription or something. That way he will get a lovely new flag from the world to display.

Actually, if you are on a steep hill, maybe getting him a Nepal flag would be a nice gesture.

guide to flying flags

The above might be worth a read:

All flag flying is subject to some standard conditions
All flags must be:
• be maintained in a condition that does not impair the overall visual appearance of
the site ;
• be kept in a safe condition;

So if the flag gets dirty, is a bit tatty, or you can persuade the authorities it is an eyesore, or if it is not safe then it is not allowed, regardless of whether it needs planning consent.

If I had time on my hands I might make enquiries as to the model of flag pole (there's probably a label on it) and enquire with the manufacturer about what windspeeds it is suitable for. - (Just tell them you want a flagpole in your garden but are concerned the flagpole might break in the wind.)

A flagpole might be deemed as unsafe if it is fitted in a location with a wind speed that it is not substantial enough for. (A very common issue and possibly why a certain Scottish castle lost a flagpole in recent years!)

A lot of flagpoles are not designed for exposed locations such as the sides of valleys. And wind speeds are higher in say Northern England than London.
The manufacturer should also be able to advise as to when a flag needs to be lowered, and the maximum flag size.

If a manufacturer says that a flag must be lowered in high wind, and the owner does not do this then that might also be viewed as unsafe, because it can snap a flagpole. - The same applies if the flag is too big.

Or you could just point out to the authorities that it sways a lot in the wind an you are concerned about safety, and let them investigate.

A mobile phone video of a flag pole that bends a lot in the wind might provide useful evidence.

Emphasise if it is close to the boundary and with potential to fall on the road or your own house.

I hate that a Scot for example can fly the saltire without it being a xenophobic, racist statement

I thought the flying of the Saltire generally meant "bollocks to the English"?

I thought the flying of the Saltire generally meant “bollocks to the English”?

Probably depends if you view everyone's actions through a prism of cynicism after too many years moderating on here.

Maybe it does for some, but it seems to be far more socially acceptable than flying the flag of the patron Saint of Scouting (and various other groups)

TBH, I view everyone’s actions through a prism of cynicism generally and it's nothing to do with STW. (-:

Maybe it's my own bias but I find flag-flying to be a bit weird. It's a fine line between patriotism and nationalism. Is someone flying a flag because they're proud of what it represents, or because they hate what it doesn't?

Someone has a St George's Cross on the go, I assume they're either a football fan or a racist. And as someone else said, that's quite a sad state of affairs.

Flag poles were pretty normal when I lived in Sweden. There didn't seem to be a nationalist / racist thing going on with them, people I knew who were pretty normal had them. The ones I see around here were closely correlated with Brexit Party posters.

a prism of cynicism

Guilty.

Is it surprising though? Look at the evidence around you. If you’re with us here in Wangerland that is.

I don't know if he's your typical brexit voting gammony racist. But if i was a betting man.... He's certainly of that demographic.

Anyway.

Looking at various solutions to fill the gap in my greenery, current favourite is a Eucalyptus tree, I can get one already at 3.5 to 4 metres height for about £300 but they start thin and will probably take at least a couple of years to get properly established to the extent we need.

Immediate option is a couple of 4 metre leylandi. Not ideal, it'll cost about £500 but make the problem go away sooner.

Has anyone got any better ideas?

Giant Redwood !

Chainsaw?

Termites

Check the title deeds and Covenants for your house to see if they ban flags.

Someone has a St George’s Cross on the go, I assume they’re either a football fan or a racist. And as someone else said, that’s quite a sad state of affairs.

Sad state of affairs on which side?

If we all just assume that every football fan, rugby fan, (and Scout) flying the flag is racist, are we strengthening the racists hand?

Sad state of affairs on which side?

Sad that that's my assumption. Does anyone fly the Engerland flag for any other reason?

If we all just assume that every football fan, rugby fan, (and Scout) flying the flag is racist, are we strengthening the racists hand?

Well, I did say "either," I wasn't assuming or indeed suggesting that at all. Though if you want to pose a leading question then yes, I do rather suspect that the Venn diagram of a couple of those those demographics would not be non-intersecting circles.

It's an interesting thought though. Is the England flag the motif of racists (and football fans), or rather do the racists believe that they're just being loyal to their country by dripping flags about whilst the rest of the country doesn't really see a desire to do that in the first place?

I thought the flying of the Saltire generally meant “bollocks to the English”?

Because everything the Scots do is about the English? Conceited much?

Isn't flying the union flag basically letting everyone know you are a patriot and so attempting to virtue signal that fact?

...Which is now deemed to be a left wing/ woke attribute not welcomed by government... and the Beeb?

Op, ask him if he considers himself "woke".

Down here in Kent they are springing up all over the show now. Nearest one is a couple of roads away and that went up just a couple of months back.

Most oddly last week I was looking over an idyllic Medway Valley from the North Downs and saw a humongous flag pole and union flag stuck in the middle of a horse paddock? Wtf?

Because everything the Scots do is about the English?

I wasn't being entirely serious there. Sorry, I should've been clearer.

"The Scots / Welsh / Irish hate the English" is kind of a cliché and my experience doesn't really bear it out, I've occasionally but rarely seen anything other a warm welcome in those places.

I wouldn't blame them one jot if they did though, so long as they didn't tar us all individually with the same brush. A lot of us have acted like entitled arseholes and got away with it for far too long. For every "great British Reserve / cricket on the village green / care for a glass of Pimms with your cucumber sandwich my good fellow?" there's two "what the **** are you looking at / send them back where they came from / Brits on the piss, bants, a gallon of Stella and a glassing".

And it's not the Brits. It's the English. We think of ourselves as better than everyone else, and we're animals.

I'm proud to be British, and English, and a bunch of other things (I actually designed my own flag and everything). But I'm ashamed to be sharing this little island with a bunch of ****ing racist Neanderthals who give no shits for anyone but themselves and lust for the glory days of the Empire. This is not my England, this is not my Britain, this is not my United Kingdom, stick your four metre flagpole up your arse and come back when you're not a prick.

's what I made:

I wanted a 'flag' that was inclusive rather than exclusive. Something that represented how I felt about my identity. In no particular order I am variously British, European, English and Lancastrian, the layout here was purely for aesthetic reasons. Probably needs something more local or personal in the middle but, eh.

a Union Flag immediate makes you a racist gammon. How do we undo that?

Go back in time and make sure it's not used by an imperialist regime as a sign of its (occasionally genocidal) power?

Keeps the weeds at bay.