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Not sure why I'm posting this, but it's been on my mind for a while so here goes.
I'm what you could call a (very) picky eater, but it goes way deeper than that. I effectively divide food into "safe" and "unsafe" and there is no logic or rationale behind this. For instance orange juice is fine, orange flavours in things are fine but put a tiny scrap of actual orange in front of me and I'll treat it like it's a slice of cyanide wrapped in arsenic.
It's not even as simple as just taking the unsafe stuff off and eating the rest - it's as if the rest of the plate has been contaminated by it, and I have to give things a really wide berth to avoid it.
It's hard to describe how this makes me feel, it's a combination of fear, embarrassment and paralysis while my rational mind looks on with bemusement. There is no way I can just mtfu and get it down my neck, and in the past I have just sat and not eaten while those around me tuck in.
Obviously this causes a whole host of problems - I can't just go for a meal at a friend's house without knowing exactly what they're cooking, I have to check restaurant menus before I go to make sure there's something I feel I can eat, any sort of buffet or prepared lunch sees me with maybe a sausage roll and some crisps while everyone else loads up on the sandwiches, pasta etc. Travel is also difficult - if I can't be sure I can eat safely then I won't go.
I've been through the mill with depression in the past and toward the end of one bout of treatment I started tackling this with my counsellor, and managed to eat most of an apple, and tried a mushroom. That's as far as it got. Neither of them has made it over to the safe list,and I've not eaten them since.
Reading this back and the language I've used, I'm wondering if it's a manifestation of ocd - its obviously a deep rooted mental problem but I'm not sure where to go for help. It doesn't seem enough for a gp visit and probably isn't a recognised eating disorder anyway. I know kids routinely go through something like this but grow out of it - during the counselling I found a few childhood triggers that could help explain it, but knowing them was no help on overcoming it.
As I said up top, not sure where I'm going with this or why I posted it, but it's been interesting to write it anyway so what the heck.
A challenging problem! It's very similar to how many young children behave, particularly 2-4 year olds. I don't know if you could look into books about how to deal with toddlers and eating and see if you could apply it to yourself?
Hypnotherapy may help?
If it impacts on your life detrimentally then your GP should be more than happy to help and refer you . You have or will pay a shed load of tax to fund the NHS you are entitled to use it. Book an appointment.
I'm following this with interest as my eldest is a "fussy" eater, but by fussy, I mean, properly phobic about foods he won't eat, which is pretty much all fruit and veg. Proper panic reaction if you even suggest he tries anything like that.
Be interested to see what experiences people have with helping with this, for the social implications as much as health. He's as tall as me at age 13 so I can't say it will stunt his growth any more!
I wouldn't say that it's too trivial for the GP. Give them a go and see what they suggest.
I was fussy as a young kid now I'll eat pretty much anything, can't see why I was or how I stopped but I do know that I very much appreciate good food.
It's OCD. Go see a doctor.
managed to eat most of an apple, and tried a mushroom. That's as far as it got.
You need a Pomme Disposal Expert to make it safe first.
IGMC
Thanks perchy, you're always a fun gi. 😉
😀
Sounds like OCD. However it is very important that you are effectively diagnosed by a GP or health professional and not The Internet.
You shouldn't worry or feel stigmatised, there is plenty of help available.
Depression / OCD aside, I can [i]completely [/i]relate.
I was exactly where you are when I was younger. Wouldn't have been able to eat what you're calling 'safe' foods if it'd touched 'unsafe' ones, even.
I'm somewhat better these days but it's still a Problem; I'm pretty convinced it's a phobia TBH. I went veggie in the early 90s largely as an excuse, but for me it helped massively as I removed a big source of problems - the concept of eating dead flesh made me want to heave.
These days I still have to check what I'm eating, and even then it's still not always easy. I got some soup or other from Pret A Manger last year; some chilli bean concoction or other. Eating the thing was a battle between my conscious and subconscious; I was sat there really enjoying it, it was really tasty, but I got halfway through it before I started to gag on it and had to fight the impulse to dry heave. I was sat there talking to myself going "this is bloody ridiculous, it's really nice!" but couldn't finish it in the end.
Cooking for myself helped a lot - control I suppose - and my OH is very understanding bless her. But group meals out fill me with horror. Assuming there's something I can eat even, there's the inevitable "but why" veggie conversation, the 'helpful' people going "well, what about this? Or this? How about that?" on every item on the menu, like I can't read or something. It's mortifying.
Oh, and,
Thanks for posting. If you're anything like me, that can't have been an easy thing to write.
thepurist, as the others have said you probably need to see a professional for proper diagnosis and advice.
In the meantime following on from Cougar's post I would ask if you cook?
As I understand it, some eating disorders like Anorexia are about exerting control over an aspect of our lives, as a substitute to - or a reaction to - being unable to influence or control other aspects of our lives, whether that be relationships, work, study, physical appearance or whatever.
If you do not cook (or cook very little), it might be that your particular behaviour is an extreme reaction to regain control over something that feels outside your control (and I do not necessarily mean just the choice and preparation of food).
So, whilst I am not suggesting this would be a cure for the underlying cause, I would suggest you cook more if you are not doing so. I think in some respects [u]very mild[/u] obsessive character traits can be a positive thing when channelled in a constructive way: being very fussy and demanding about cooking something just right is probably a hallmark of the best chefs.
PS One of the reasons for saying the above, is your comment "any sort of buffet or prepared lunch sees me with maybe a sausage roll and some crisps while everyone else loads up on the sandwiches, pasta etc." - I am being flippant but also quite genuine when I say that your pickiness is misdirected: freshly made sandwiches are a food where you can usually see and trust what you are getting and the quality of the ingredients, whereas given the nature of the meat and processed food industries I would not want to put a shop bought sausage roll in my mouth. When I fancied sausages last month, I cycled 45 miles there and back to one of the best butchers in the country, because my own pickiness meant that I would not 'trust' the sausages from any supermarket or even a local butcher.
EDIT I also think that there's nothing as good as your own cooking failures and disasters to make you more relaxed about and appreciative of what others serve you.
I'm with the OCD consensus, and I think it would be perfectly reasonable to go to a doctor and explain exactly what you've just written here. I dare say like many mental health problems it will not be easy to tackle, but you may well be offered some kind of therapy like CBT to try and deal with it.
I was exactly like that when I was younger. I managed to wean myself out of it by cooking for myself. My problem was always texture. So even fruit, apart from apples were a problem. I'd eat lots of flavours of sauces but I was unable to handle 'bits' as I called them.
When I went to university I had to cook, so I started to push myself to eat more things on my own terms, and cooked the way I could handle. Eventually by about 30 my diet was almost normal, but there's still a ton of things I don't like which makes life a bit awkward. Mayonnaise, I hate - but more as a concept than an actual taste. Also I hate balsamic vinegar and many raw veg which make salads impossible (unless I make them on my own terms).
But it was the ability to experiment on my own terms, recognition of the problem and a desire to beat it that got me through.
Oh and I'm the same at buffets. Cos the sandwiches all have mayonnaise and/or salad in and so do the salads.
freshly made sandwiches are a food where you can usually see and trust what you are getting
Yes, and you can see that it's full of disgusting stuff. With sausages, you don't know, so it can't hurt you.
Indeed, wtf is up with contaminating sandwiches anyway?
If i want a ham sandwich i want ham and bread, no salad, no tomato, no mayo, no mustard etc etc etc.
The sandwiches are funny. I'm a picky eater, always have been (used to cut the ends off sausages because I wouldn't eat them). And for a long time I didn't even have butter in my sandwiches. Straight up commando, slice of ham sandwiched between dry bread...
Still avoid most sandwiches at the buffet.
Agreed with the consensus. A type of OCD which itself could be seen as just being extremely fussy. As you well know (I assume) eating a piece of orange isn't going to kill you ! I can relate as my wife will not touch any orange pith or the white bits between the slices. She knows that in a glass of freshly squeezed juice its all crushed up in the glass but that's not the point, she won't eat the pithy bits
So you need to see a specialist, your GP is a good start but may I be so bold as to say if you can afford it just pay to see someone the GP recommends. I say this as we have a big discussion going on about NHS funding (lack of) and if sorting this costs (say) £500 worth of sessions why not just get it sorted if you can afford it. You'd fix the car if it was not working smoothly. Now if you don't have the money then NHS and see what they can do.
You Tory git 🙁
Unfortunately he's right. Mental health provision on the NHS is woeful. If you can afford to self fund it's worth it.
Our (autistic) son is similar, its sounds like a kind of restrictive eating disorder that is fairly common. There are therapists that specialises in this sort of thing, probably try the docs and see if you can get a referral. The wife found one that has a 100% success rate after one session with adults. Can't remember the name for the life of me though unfortunately
Never for a second occurred to me that it might be a feature of being Aspie. Interesting.
My problem was always texture.
That's a big part of it for me too. I'll drink almost anything.
You Tory git
Now now 🙂 Why not relieve pressure on the NHS if you can afford to ? As above there is an issue about the quality / likelihood of getting any care given the symptoms.
The wife found one that has a 100% success rate after one session with adults. Can't remember the name for the life of me though unfortunately
Molgrips see this would be golden, one (or two) sessions with a specialist, it's got to be worth the money.
Prawny - if your Mrs can dredge up any info on that it'd be great thanks. And thanks to all the other responders.
Oh and yes I do cook - it's the only way I could be certain nobody was sneaking dodgy stuff into my food (my mum had a habit of slipping chopped tomatoes or baked beans into stews). I also tend to cook from scratch because most supermarket prepared stuff contains something dodgy.
Oh and on the sausage vs sandwich thing, I never claimed this was rational!
Step 1 - gp appointment booked.
Step 2 is actually turning up to it
Step 3 is actually talking about this and not faking something less embarrassing like catching bad cat aids off a toilet seat
Take someone who knows about it with you. That should keep you honest.
So anyone off this thread I guess 🙂
it's the only way I could be certain nobody was sneaking dodgy stuff into my food (my mum had a habit of slipping chopped tomatoes or baked beans into stews)
Sounds familiar. Probably made me worse if anything.
I eat anything, but my missus is just like you. Learning to understand she wasn't "Just Being Picky" was the hardest bit. Texture is her biggest issue, but she is definitely beating it slowly.
she is definitely beating it slowly.
She's a keeper.
OP (and others) - this sounds an awful lot like my wife. She's hugely picky although getting better, and like you said it's never rational.
She started to make headway one day after we really talked it through, and she described the fearful sense of dread that overwhelms her if confronted with, say, spaghetti carbonara (creamy) or cottage pie (peas). I suggested it was a kind of phobia.
At least for me, learning to consider her reaction as being comparable to mine if I look over a high ledge, helped me be a lot more sensitive about it.
She had always figured it was control issues dating from childhood; considering it as a phobia turned that on its head - instead of gaining a perverse form of control of something, perhaps she actually didn't have control over it at all. And she hates not having control! She is also quite stubborn, so the anger that she wasn't in control of her diet started to help her consider the food issues again.
She still wouldn't eat carbonara, and restaurants can still be difficult. She'll probably never try curry. But she feels like that day was a bit of a step change, and is able to take a lot more enjoyment from food these days.
Don't know what I'm trying to get at here, but as you've probably figured, you're certainly not alone!
It doesn't seem enough for a gp visit
I agree unless it's significantly affecting day to day life.
managed to eat most of an apple, and tried a mushroom. That's as far as it got.
You need a Pomme Disposal Expert to make it safe first.IGMC
Oh, that's good, that's [i]very[/i] good!
[img]
[/img]I was very picky as a kid, not helped at all by the fact that all sorts of things would cause what my mum used to call 'bilious attacks', better known as throwing up!
There are still plenty of things I can't and won't eat, mostly meats, like lamb and pork, [i]any[/i] offal, so liver, kidneys, etc, (just the [i]thought...[/i] [img]
[/img]), plus jelly, mushrooms used to make me ill.Oddly enough, I can and do eat mushrooms, but jelly...
Things like curry, olives, dark beers, like stout, we're all things I couldn't bring myself to eat, but coming out with a girl who's mum was Chinese, and who's dad was a Brummie, quickly cured my dislike of curries, Jim did a knockout curry, while her mum did the Chinese, which oddly enough I didn't have an issue with, and as I've got older, olives and a variety of other things have become palatable.
Some things can become favourites, just because your palate can change with age, some things never do, just because of texture; I absolutely cannot eat fruit cake/Christmas cake/pudding, because of the texture of raisins, sultanas, etc, for example.
Same can apply to apples; I love a good, crisp, slightly tart apple, but some are sort of 'fluffy' and I just can't finish one like that. Texture again.
Honestly don't know what to suggest other than what others have, some sort of therapy/counselling, perhaps?
Good luck, but don't worry too much, so long as your actual health isn't suffering, then it shouldn't become something that should dominate your life.
Mrs Prawny to the Rescue,
Google ARFID - Avoidant Restrictive Food Intake Disorder.
The chap is Felix Economakis, and he specialises in this kind of thing, we'll probably take the wean when he's a bit older and wants to change for himself
http://www.felixeconomakis.com/
All i can say is well done purist for 'talking' about it on here and booking an appointment, must of been difficult. My two cents is that i think that most people suffer from this at some point in life (although to a lesser extent) i still wont eat cucumber and even hate eating stuff it touches (contamination, i get this) however i am trying stuff i thought i didnt like as a kid, tomatoes i can now eat, still trying with fish, still hate olives. Wish you luck op
This may be some unwanted brevity, but I cannot eat mushrooms for psychological reasons.
As when I was 6 my older brother convinced me to eat the ones growing in the garden and had to endure my mum chasing me down to stick her fingers down my throats to make me vom them back up.
I am carnivore.
Of course cucumber contaminates, if a cucumber has been cut into
everything near it in the kitchen tastes of it.
Another update - I'm going to give prawnys link a go, and save the NHS some money by scrapping the gp visit.
Best of luck.
If I may, I would not recommend your latest choice. Go to the GP first and use the Internet later. I may be a cynic but the name and the fact that this bloke refers to 2,000 people over q a period sets little alarm bells ringing for me.
I have never heard of this before - - other than fussy eating - so thx for sharing and I hope things help.
PP another corker!
Me again.
I've just finished the last part of the video course that prawny recommended (or Mrs prawny). I've not rushed through it as I knew I was trying to change something that's been ingrained in me for decades, but tonight was the final stage and as part of that you're asked to get in a couple of "test" items of food, aiming for things most people like but which were previously on the unsafe list.
Anyhow I've just sat and eaten half an apple (which tasted amazing) and some of a live raspberry yoghurt which was nice enough to dip into again. The incredible thing is that I just picked both of them up and tried them with no fear, no hesitation and no pre judgement. The last time I tried eating an apple was 5 years ago and it took me an afternoon to build up to it. I have no recollection of ever eating a yoghurt,they were always on the unsafe list, as was the raspberry jam/compote blob inside it.
So am I fixed? I have no idea. The guy on the video makes it clear that it's easy to drop back in to my old habits, it's a matter of keeping up with trying stuff and seeing what I like, and getting my body familiar with new food. Time will tell.
Prawny please say thanks to your Mrs.
That is great news. Well done for overcoming your fears and sharing it with us.
I may try and get Jnr to have a look at that video
Excellent 🙂
Excellent news, really pleased for you keep up the good work.
I'm glad to hear it's worked personally, as we will put the eldest through the same course, but not yet, as I don't think hes old enough to get the best out of it.
Is it a bit dusty in here?
Nice one welcome the pleasure dome.
Proud of you.
Nice to hear purist, good luck
I don't want to detract from what is actually a brilliant thread or take away from your progress, but I do want to make a joke. What to do, what to do...
Oh well
thepurist - MemberI effectively divide food into "safe" and "unsafe" and there is no logic or rationale behind this.
Create a religion.
On the back of another thread I'd like to ask,
So am I fixed? I have no idea.
How are you doing now, thepurist?
Sorry Cougar never saw this at the time but realised it's getting on for a year so thought I'd do an update.
First off the good news - I have tasted quite a few things that were previously on the banned list and some of them (mushrooms) have made it onto the "really rather tasty" list too. I'm getting on OK with some fruit and got into broccoli last spring when it was in the garden but didn't carry on with supermarket stuff. I was at rhs Wisley over the summer and they had a massive fruit tasting bench with all sorts of berries on it and I got through a fair few of them too.
The less good news surrounds the whole area of salad - its still not somewhere I've gone but I'm probably just biding my time.
I fared OK on a trip to the tropics too, eating bananas for breakfast some days and lots of plantain with meals too, and visited an exotic fruit place there where I was able to try some weird and not so wonderful offerings.
The real change is that I can now allow myself to taste something without prejudice - it's not like sticking red hot poison in my mouth. Texture is one thing that's taking time to get used to, probably as big a factor as taste in deciding whether to try something again. I'm not sure if there's anything I've disliked the taste of but a lot of soft fruit takes getting used to and excessively fibrous stuff is odd too.
The biggest difficulty remains with extended family who have got used to the old me and I just can't be bothered explaining the whole thing to them so there have been times when I haven't eaten things that I do eat now because it's easier not to.
Interestingly I met someone recently who was probably suffering the same problems as me but who seemed to be much happier with the situation, and didn't let it stop them from socialising or travelling.
Tl/Dr - not "fixed" but much better and would definitely recommend the video therapy linked above to anyone who suffers as I do/did.
That's awesome news. Cheers.
Good news. I have a mate who couldn't eat 'normal food' - he had a severe disorder and lived of sweets and crisps. Even stuff you'd consider 'safe' he wouldn't touch. Fortunately, he managed to slowly work through the issues, including losing a shed load of weight - weight went first, then he needed to sort the 'diet out'
It's a slow process. Keep at it, there are many wonderful foods out there.
Well done. My daughter is like this and texture is surprisingly important, possibly more so than taste or look. It's a long journey
Videos look pricey but might be worth it
Here's a curve ball - Mrs P had a blood test for something a few weeks ago and that triggered a call from the docs as her cholesterol was high. She's then had a proper fasted test and that's still high - she's fit and active but (partially because of me) her diet isn't the best. So she's now agreed with the doc to work on that for 6 months which means I'm along for the ride - goodbye to a few of my old staples, hello new ingredients, new recipes, new flavours and textures.