[Closed] Fitting winter car tyres - inform insurer?

https://www.abi.org.uk/Insurance-and-savings/Products/Motor-insurance/Winter-tyres

All you need to know. There is a list of insurers and their requirements.

Best to tell them then you've covered your arse (I use email so there's a trail). If they try to charge you for a modification, argue and speak to someone cleverer and they won't do so. Think it was a bigger problem a few years ago, a sort of 'computer says...' with no common sense applied, but most should be switched on to it now. Neither of my insurers were bothered and neither required to be told.

ABI list of which insurers need to be informed etc:
[url= https://www.abi.org.uk/Insurance-and-savings/Products/Motor-insurance/Winter-tyres ]here[/url]

[edit] too slow! [/edit]

Here is my (recent) experience:

Admiral - I asked them and they told me the tyres had to be of a size recommended by the manufacturer. This meant changing my rear wheels.

Quotemehappy - they are happy for you to change without giving them notice, provided that the tyres are the same size as the ones they are replacing. I pointed out that the manufacturer recommended a smaller size, but they said if I change my wheel size they will deem this to be a modification and my premium will change.

What a pointless list, only 2 insures that need to be informed.

What about 'All Season' tyres?

What about the reverse argument?

i.e. could not having fitted winter tyres be treated as grounds to refuse a claim?

Seems like many people see winter tyres as near enough a safety "Essential" these days, could insurers penalise those who choose not to fit them?

Discuss?

tbh Honest John couldn't NOT say 'inform your insurer' as he/they were asked directly.

My winter tyres are the correct rating for my car, so haven't informed, nor would I.

Seems like many people see winter tyres as near enough a safety "Essential" these days, could insurers penalise those who choose not to fit them?

I choose not to fit them, becuase for 95% of the year they are more dangerous where I live in Yorkshire.

They are only better in temperatures < 7 deg, and when the road is wet/icy snowy. That has happened probably < 14 days this year so far when I have been driving the car.

Not sure, the UK conditions mean it's possible to a whole winter without really getting a massive benefit out of them. They make sense for me because of where I drive but would probably by OTT for the majority of Uk drivers. The other benefit of having them mandatory is that it forces people to properly check over their tyres twice a year, which is no bad thing.

There's an awful lot of internet hysteria about things that will void your insurance but not very much evidence of it ever happening.

A few years ago my brother's car was written off in a hit & run incident. While getting all his paperwork together for the claim he realised the MOT had run out. "OMG" said the internetz "UR UNSURANCE WONT PAY". But what [i]actually[/i] happened ? They reduced the valuation by 10% and sent him a cheque.

Seems like many people see winter tyres as near enough a safety "Essential" these days, could insurers penalise those who choose not to fit them?

Discuss?

I believe the law in Germany is that if you are involved in an accident between November and February and don't have winter tyres fitted you are automatically deemed to be at fault.

My winter tyres are the correct rating for my car, so haven't informed, nor would I.

You'd potentially be in breach of my insurers t&cs, which was what surprised me!

if the tyre sizes are on the tyre label stuck on the car then the tyre is homologated by the vehicle manufacturer and the insurer would have a very difficult job trying to claim you had modified it.

this is what the aa say about it

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-in-the-uk.html

i used to be a tyre engineer.

I choose not to fit them, becuase for 95% of the year they are more dangerous where I live in Yorkshire

Guess it depends where you are. Up here (NW Scotland) more and more people I know are fitting them and leaving them on all year, with no noticeable detriment in terms of either wear or fuel economy. But it's often very cold here, and usually wet, so maybe that's why!

I think that would need a change in the law and a move by manufacturers to supply new vehicles with winters as standard, along with a set of summers. Germans and Austrians do that, but even there its not the law to fit winters come October 1st, merely if you are involved in an accident and the weather dictates that winter tyres may have made a difference (i.e. its <7C) then you may be in trouble.

Also, there are very few people as a % who actually fit winter tyres. I know my whole family does, but we're a bit odd - car mad and will happily drive anywhere with confidence. The majority of people aren't like that.

On the subject of changing tyre sizes, if your vehicle was homologated with a certain size, then your insurer shouldn't give a fig. My abarth can come from the factory with 194/45r16, but you have the option of specifying 205/40r17. The car is homologated with either and can be considered to be "standard" either way. So my winter set use the 16s and my summers the 17s. If I chose to fit 185/50r16 which would, in theory, be better in actual snow and ice, the car could be considered as having been modified and Id expect to have to pay a premium. Its exactly the same for our Yeti.

I choose not to fit them, becuase for 95% of the year they are more dangerous where I live in Yorkshire.

They are only better in temperatures < 7 deg, and when the road is wet/icy snowy. That has happened probably < 14 days this year so far when I have been driving the car.

Using Leeds as an example...[u]50%[/u] of the year (from November to April) the temperature is 7 degrees or colder.

You are correct that cold weather tyres are at a slight disadvantage on a dry road, however given that out of those 6 months where the temperature is under 7 degrees, [u]more than half[/u] of those days will have rain (again, using Leeds as an example)...how can you possibly arrive at 95%?

The correct answer is, technically speaking, that you're better on summer tyres from May to October and cold weather tyres from November to April.

To be fair, if I lived in Yorkshire (unless somewhere in N Yorks perhaps) I probably wouldn't bother with cold weather tyres either.

[url= http://www.holiday-weather.com/leeds/averages/ ]Weather linky[/url]

[img] [/img]

I'm with Admiral multi-car. Two smaller cars with OEM steel wheels: no charge on swapping to winter tyres. Large estate has winters on non OEM alloys - £18 charge. Seems reasonable to me.

Had a Bmw 1 Series which was crap in the snow and at the time we were doing a 60 plus mile commute to both workplaces. Bought some winter steelies and tyres (genuine Bmw) When we informed the insurance company we had to pay extra to make the car safer 😯 Bit of a con Tbf, but what an amazing difference they made. The insurer classed it as modifying the car,even though the wheels themselves would be much cheaper to replace than the standard 19inch alloys. Worked for us but extracting the urine.

[quote=peterfile ]I choose not to fit them, becuase for 95% of the year they are more dangerous where I live in Yorkshire.
They are only better in temperatures < 7 deg, and when the road is wet/icy snowy. That has happened probably < 14 days this year so far when I have been driving the car.
Using Leeds as an example...50% of the year (from November to April) the temperature is 7 degrees or colder.
You are correct that cold weather tyres are at a slight disadvantage on a dry road, however given that out of those 6 months where the temperature is under 7 degrees, more than half of those days will have rain (again, using Leeds as an example)...how can you possibly arrive at 95%?
The correct answer is, technically speaking, that you're better on summer tyres from May to October and cold weather tyres from November to April.
To be fair, if I lived in Yorkshire (unless somewhere in N Yorks perhaps) I probably wouldn't bother with cold weather tyres either.
Weather linky

i'm not sure you should trust your weather sources. apparently plymouth gets an average of 5 days of snow in august!!!

I live in Leeds and run winter wheels from late october to end March. I can confirm that they were perfectly safe in the abnormally warm haloween we had. They grip much better in the wet and now that we have snow today they are really showing their benefits. I bought a spare set of rims for my A2 to have a summer set and a winter set.

i'm not sure you should trust your weather sources. apparently plymouth gets an average of 5 days of snow in august!!!

hahahah! good spot 🙂

Here's the [url= http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate/gcwfhf1w0 ]met office[/url]...similar picture.

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/cold-weather-tyres-save-lives-cut-costs/41312/

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/cold-weather-tyres-save-lives-cut-costs/41312/page/4/

macavity...you're missing one key detail which renders cold weather tyres useless to STWers...different laws of physics apply to STW driving Gods 🙂

FunkyDunc - Member
They are only better in temperatures < 7 deg, and when the road is wet/icy snowy. That has happened probably < 14 days this year so far when I have been driving the car.

I'd beg to differ. I routinely head out for work at 06:00 and return after 21:00. On many of those days the headline temperature figure was above the magic 7 deg, but early morning and evening it was very icy/wet/cold.

I don't see them as safety essential, but have the space to store a spare set of identical wheels but with winter tyres. I run them from December to March.

OK...fair point.

They are only better in temperatures < 7 deg, and when the road is wet/icy snowy. That has happened probably < 14 days this year so far when I have been driving the car.

I got the "it's a modification" line from an insurer, threatened to move, they changed their mind. They're just tyres, so as long as they're correct fitment etc it's fine, [i]unless[/i] they have specific clauses relevent to tyres.

I dunno, in insurance terms you're less likely to have an accident if you're driving in snow. But I'm more likely to drive in snow with my winter tyres than I would be without them, so who knows how the actual risk weighs up.

cookeaa - Member

i.e. could not having fitted winter tyres be treated as grounds to refuse a claim?

Absolutely not, in the UK anyway. You can be running around on any old crap regardless of the conditions, as long as they're legal.

Live in Sheffield. Just fitted winters after getting stuck at Xmas and leaving the car a mile or so from home on return from holiday. No way of getting up our snow covered 12-15% road. In fact car struggled on the flat. Different story today, fully mobile even on steep snow covered roads in a BMW. Driving up steep roads with handrails on the pavement! Dumped cars everywhere. Also got caught out in a blizzard on the Woodhead at the weekend - everyone else sliding and spinning and we cruised past. Grip in the snow is stunning.

If it's warmer on winters the risk is low but I can drive a bit slower. If it's snowy and I'm on summers the risk is high, if I can even drive at all.

Insurance we're with want £25 'admin fee' when we change wheels. Just saved £67 swapping to them though. Might change insurers next year.

I have identical tyres but on steel not alloy wheels - van runs winters all year round. I haven't told them as the tyres are the same.

Steels make sense, or alloys with hammer-on weights. Water gets behind stick-ons & freezes them off when it gets very cold. You can also easily hammer out a ding in a steel after an off.

gravity-slave - Member

If it's warmer on winters the risk is low but I can drive a bit slower. If it's snowy and I'm on summers the risk is high, if I can even drive at all.

Exactly this- when winter tyres are significantly worse than summer tyres, it's at times when conditions are as good as it gets- warm and dry, when you least need that extra grip. When winter tyres are better than summer tyres, it's always when conditions are worse and the improvement in performance is more significant.

The relevant section for me in the ABI's document is this;

Please note that this Commitment only applies to cars used for personal use that are insured under a private or personal use car insurance policy

As I have business use cover, I phoned them and they have not charged me for the change to winter tyres, but have sent me a new insurance document with a note showing under 'modifications' Winter/extreme weather tyres and have asked me to let them know when I change them in the spring.

As stated above, always best in my opinion to be completely open with insurers.

If you bought a car with a set of ditchfinders on then changed them to Pirelli or Michelins would you tell your insurer 😆

Course you wouldnt, and the difference in grip is comparable to normal tyres vs winters.

My mrs was hit and car written off in the summer we still had winters on as we run them all year round. It wasnt declared or even mentioned when they inspected the car

If you bought a car with a set of ditchfinders on then changed them to Pirelli or Michelins would you tell your insurer

Not really relevant though is it? If your insurer says as part of their t&cs that you need to inform them of certain "changes", specifically, changing to winter tyres, then non compliance is breach and if they really wanted to they would be able to cause problems in the event of a claim.

Those of you leaving winter tyres on all year round are increasing your braking distances for the majority of the year. Not logical

Does it rain the majority of the year ?(trick question )

FunkyDunc - Member

Those of you leaving winter tyres on all year round are increasing your braking distances for the majority of the year. Not logical

Northwind - Member

when winter tyres are significantly worse than summer tyres, it's at times when conditions are as good as it gets- warm and dry, when you least need that extra grip. When winter tyres are better than summer tyres, it's always when conditions are worse and the improvement in performance is more significant.

[quote=FunkyDunc ]Those of you leaving winter tyres on all year round are increasing your braking distances for the majority of the year. Not logical
I live in Aviemore. Would you like to reconsider your statement?

Using Met Office data for where I live there are only 2 months out of 12 when the min temperature is 8+. In addition it rains more days than it doesn't.

http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_uk/I_want_new_tyres/winter_tyres/Fitting_winter_tyres.jsp
http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_uk/I_want_new_tyres/winter_tyres/FAQs.jsp

http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/van-tyres/winter-tyres/why-winter-tyres.html
Michelin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyI_ymD3XCA

Vredestein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8m3pzxnD8c

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/11528952._The_Stig_s_version_of_the_Highway_Code_/

Winter tyres won't work better than summer tyres when it's wet and 20 deg.

Macavity - thank you to linking to the sales pitches of companies that want to sell you as many tyres as possible.

I'm not saying that winter tyres are not appropriate in some areas of the UK, just that some people are prepared to spend loads of cash for a tiny % of the year, and actually be less safe for the majority of the year.

Maybe where you live funkydunk but where i live and at the times i drive .....i dont fall into your assumption either.

Mean while ive been driving about on normal tires in the ice quite fine although ive had to be careful with route choice. as all 4 of my winters are on the mrs' car.

Looking forward to next year , will have a 4x4 again. Having to use the main roads is unbarable.

Just bitten the bullet and ordered some, getting them fitted tomorrow. Goodrich something-or-others. My other half lives in the borders, the roads where she lives are not gritted. I really struggled getting up a hill in 1/2" of snow a couple of weeks ago with summer tyres less than 5k miles old. I'm moving there next month.
.
We had winter tyres fitted to one of the company cars at work, I rang the insurers and told them and they said they didn't need to know.
Wasn't planning on telling mine, the standard spec is 15" wheels with 195/70 tyres and I'm keeping it at that.
Bought 3 second hand wheels, £10 each from scrappy, so with the spare I can have a set with each kind of tyre and swap around whenever i want, rather than have to pay someone else to do it twice a year. My spare will always be mismatched of course, the opposite of what the four on the van are but as I've never used one yet in 120k+ miles I'll chance it, will just have to be careful if I ever do need it.

[quote=FunkyDunc ]
Macavity - thank you to linking to the sales pitches of companies that want to sell you as many tyres as possible.Like this?

If you are reluctant to change tyres and have nowhere to store summer tyres when they are not in use, you are better off using winter tyres all year round.

Winter tyres are as quiet and comfortable as summer tyres and, thanks to sophisticated compound technology, do not wear any more quickly.

There is a slight trade off with stopping distances as a winter tyre does not stop as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre, however, on balance if it is not possible to switch tyres in the winter, experts say you are better off with winter tyres all year round. This is because the difference in stopping distances of summer tyres in winter is far greater than for winter tyres in the summer.

Unless you live properly out in t sticks (and then you'd probably have a good 4wd) winter tyres are only as good as the ones on the stuck cars in front of you or the ones on the car that's about to hit you up the arse. Waste of time until it's made compulsory.

As with many things STW, it's those who haven't tried who are the most fervent in arguing against.

4x4s without Winter tyres are no better than anything else when it comes to steering and braking and lull people into a false sense of security. The cars abandoned in the car parks and lay-byes on the way up to the resort are a mixed bag of cars without Winter tyres (or chains). The ones off the road or crashed on the way down are often 4x4s that got up without Winter tyres but failed to make it down. Notably BMW X-things which simply will not stop even at very moderate speeds. [url=

is a flat car park. [/url] Imagine that on a 13% descent with a bend at the bottom.

wrightyson - Member

Unless you live properly out in t sticks (and then you'd probably have a good 4wd) winter tyres are only as good as the ones on the stuck cars in front of you or the ones on the car that's about to hit you up the arse. Waste of time until it's made compulsory.

I live in one of the biggest cities in the country, and you are talking absolute pish.

from what i hear - it sounds like the in town housing schemes locally are the hardest hit and most in need of winter tires to get out as they simply dont grit them.

quite right too , they are in walking distance of everything they need - except their work.

my road gets gritted every week day at 6.45 ready for the rural school bus at 7.30

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/8388582/Getting-to-grips-with-winter-tyres.html

"Recent outrage over insurers raising premiums for winter tyre fitment has largely subsided. Many say they no longer require notification provided the tyres are "correct for the vehicle and professionally fitted". The message may not have filtered down from head offices to call centres, though, so demand confirmation."

I live on a hill in rural Derbyshire and we started using them on both cars this year. Since I fitted them in the first week of November the temperature gauge on my car has been below 7C on all apart from 5 days. Gritting even on A roads round here is poor and we have icy patches regularly- having one extra line of defence sounds like a good thing, especially when it doesn't cost any extra (based on swapping wheels and your tyres lasting for effectively double the time).

I have not informed my insurer, and they aren't even listed on the Abi document despite being a big firm which has got me a little worried.

But I'm more likely to drive in snow with my winter tyres than I would be without them, so who knows how the actual risk weighs up.

I do worry about everyone on winter tyres having too much faith in them- you are still driving in inclement conditions, the road is still slippy. My policy is to drive as if I don't have them, then the margin of error is much greater. It is tempting to think "I have winter tyres, I'll drive up that/a bit faster/go out today when I wouldn't normally" but you do have to rein yourself in.

I do worry about everyone on winter tyres having too much faith in them

That's pretty much what my insurer said to me. The accident rate for cars with winter tyres "might" be high because people go out and drive in conditions that they otherwise wouldn't.

The flip side to that is perhaps that simply [i]thinking[/i] about ways to make your vehicle safer in winter probably puts you higher up on the list of safe drivers? If you could see the idiots and the driving I see on the A82 during ski season, it amazes me that some people make it through life.

[url= http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2015/01/19/a82-turned-into-car-park-by-skiers/ ]Idiots on A82[/url]. I got stuck in this on Sunday. People just don't seem to engage their brains.