Fitting doors - good tutorials for wonky liners

No tutorials, but my old mate joiner / carpenter when faced with the same issue in my house advised that it was better to remove and refit the liners square and then make good any gaps. As he knows best (knew - sadly he is my mate who died last week and donated his organs) I went with his advice,

I sort of regretted it as he then set about my house with a crowbar and recipsaw but the final job is way better.

Honestly if I did that I'd be replastering the whole house.  And the way things are going I'd have to teach myself to plaster as well if I wanted it before xmas.  The liners are bad though, some are out by nearly 1cm the length, some are bowed.

Just watched this, quite useful but, liners aren't as bad as some of mine

How To Install A New Door To An Old Frame | Easy Step By Step DIY Guide - YouTube

and sorry for your loss 🙁

I think having the old doors will help you a lot, although if the old doors were hacked into place then so will the new ones be.

A method to template an odd shape is to cut yourself a few strips of thin mdf maybe 100mm wide or whatever.

Cut two for each side of the height and two for the widths, then start scribing them in, planing a little off where it needs it until you have a good reproduction of the shape.

Do that all the way around, then glue gun all the pieces together in place using diagonal bits of mdf to keep it rigid.

There's your template and obviously you'll need to make it a few mm smaller.

I mean, if the old door fits well, then use that.

I wouldn't bother with the Trend jigs for a few doors. They're expensive.

You can do locks with drills and chisels.

kayak, presume you are offering up the mdf to the existing liner to create the template?

I was thinking of just laying the old door on top of the new one and scribing round it.  All but one looks pretty good fit wise.  One has been butchered and then filled to bring it back to height.

I may give it a go on one door and see how I get on.

BUy an electric plane for trimming.  remember to go edge to middle for end grain

This is how I would do it.

get a 6’ level and see how far out of plumb the hanging side is and either plane or saw the difference off the hanging side of the door.

check head of lining for level and adjust door if needed.

measure the width distance at the top and deduct 4mm do the same at the bottom.

mark these distances from the hanging side of the door and plane or saw the closing side.

if you find that any side of the lining is concave/convex then you might need another measurement from the point where the lining is most bowed and then I would use a plane to get it just right.

My grandad was a chippy and had a gang working for him and he used to say that the test of a good tradesman was how good he could hang a door. Get the mindset that it’s a difficult job, take your time and measure and mark as accurately as possible and trust in the lines you have to cut to. Make sure all your tools are sharp. Be prepared to keep trying the door in the hole, its much better to have a nice even gap so taking too much off must be avoided. A rail saw would be very useful for long cuts, if using a saw, leave the line on when cutting to allow a little planing to remove saw marks.

I really wish I lived closer, wishing you the very best of luck!

My 2 tips:

Use the old door as a template - but usually after trimming any tight spots in the old door and re-fitting to make sure it's how you want it. Simply mark when you need a few mm more at appropriate points.

I have a track saw, so I do ALL my trimming with that. If the line you're cutting to has a bit of a curve, just nudge the guide rail as you move.

Thanks all, tools wise I have everything I need, tracksaw, planer, sander, router (though not confident with it) even those little blow up bag things in the vid I linked (used them to fit the summerhouses doors)

Just need to build up the courage to do it.

I was the same with tiling the kitchen splashback.  wifey wanted herringbone style.  Took 3 days but it looks as good as a professional job.

Im sure with some patience I can make theses doors work....

Where are you based ?

southampton.  seemingly one of the hardest places in the uk to find tradespeople who will turn up when they say they will!

That’s surprising. I know mates who a struggling to keep working at the moment. I’m in Kent if you were closer I could have help you.

Hello,

I will try to explain how I approach hanging a new door in an existing frame that’s bowed or not level etc.

The width of the lining at the top has be same all the way down the two legs of the lining ( parallel).

Remove the doorstop before you start

Starting on the hinge side first check for a bow in the lining using a long level, ideally 6ft, either inward or outward. If it’s outward away from the door you need to remove the architrave and wedge the lining so it’s flat against the level. If it’s inward towards the door, plane the lining not the door. It very easy to ruin an expensive door at this stage.
When you have the hanging side of the door reasonably flat you can then offer the door into the opening. You can now make adjustments by planing the door.
The hinge positions can be marked on the door using the existing on the lining.
Don’t bother with a hinge jig as they don’t often work on older frames that need lots of adjustment. You can use the router free hand to cut your hinges out.

Hope this helps and sorry if it’s not clear, I find it hard to explain in writing.
After 35 years on the tools new doors in old frames can be a challenge.

I could explain better over the phone, happy to do so but don’t know how to exchange numbers etc.

Ed.

Thanks ed, I think I get it! Really I need a good vid I can pause and repeat when I get through the various stages.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what I’m getting myself into! Will start with the easy doors first

I also need to cut down a door slightly more than the recommended amount, a door as narrow as our old pantry was not available anywhere. Any tips for how to do that without it looking awful. Last door I will try I think as it’s going to be the trickest

Definitely no visible slow down in the trades in my neck of the woods. My usual guys say they are booked up on big jobs for the best part of two years!

Most doors tell you the max that can be trimmed. If you exceed that you get down to the lattice cardboard core.

these are solid core doors so hopefully no cardboard! there simply wasn't a door any narrower available. so the option was either make a door from scratch or try and make an off the peg one work. I've seen some vids of people chiselling out the core to refit the lipping strip. doors aren't veneered so I'm hoping it's doable. or that the lip is slightly more than they say as it's only a few mm out

Company I worked for ,we used to make the door and the liner as one unit. It was easier to make the door, make the lining and hinge one to the other so when you took it to the site it was a simple job of sliding the entire unit into the frame, and screwing through the lining to hold it all in place. It eliminated any need to try to plane or adjust the linings that were already in there, plus back are the workshop you can have the door etc lying on the bench and have it all fit very snugly.

It is a good system, because you can route mouldings on the door and lining that match exactly(or smoke/fire seals). Sort of marries it all together.

Well, I'm about 6 hours in and I've hung 2 doors. Found out that not just wonky liners but also wonky floors. Had to trim one door and extra 5mm on the lock side to get it to clear a hump in the floor. What looked a perfect 2mm gap in the frame now looks a bit lop sided 🙁

And why are there always knots where you want to chisel out the hinges? right pain, and after 6 hinges I'm swapping to the palm router had a few practise runs so hopefully I won't be wrecking anything

One of my 'solid' doors appeared to not be solid when I cut the bottom off - so I had to cut out the rail and re fix. Second door was solid with the same amount removed. weird.

Trying to make sure I have enough clearance for painting and seasonal movement. Dont want to be doing this again come winter. What a faff.

5 to go

You can make the simplest hinge jig for your router using a few offcut bits of ply/mdf. All you need is a flush trim bearing guided straight cutter and the jig and they'll be cut in seconds 100% accurate. Loads of vids on YT.
I'll find you a good/quick/easy one .....

... here.

And why are there always knots where you want to chisel out the hinges? right pain, and after 6 hinges I’m swapping to the palm router

Yeah Palm routers are great for this.
I usually use a semi freehand approach for hinges.
I'll set the fence on the router so it physically cannot go further across the edge of the door than is needed, then knife all the lines in and freehand near to them, switching to the chisel to pare to the lines.

On a large hinge with a small router, if you rout from the outer edge inwards, what you do is create less and less support for the router the further you cut, which can lead to tipping if you're not too experienced.

One approach is to make ever such a shallow cut of a few mm along the very edge which will give you a chisel ledge at the correct depth later, then start inside of the edge leaving a small 'wall' of material near the edge, take out the bulk of the middle near to the knife lines, and do that little wall last, with a chisel if you think you may tip.
This helps support the router on that narrow door edge all the way through the task.

Sounds like you're doing well though. Nice one 😊👍

Thanks guys, I've been practising the 'semi' freehand route, knifing the edges and then routing as close as I can. Doesn't look like my makita router has a fence on the small base, just the massive plunge one which would be too big. I seem to be doing okay, its a lot tidier than my chiselling attempts, just more opportunity to mess it up!

I watched the vid, that guys attitude to safety is interesting! I looked about and I don;t have the right offcuts or that magic instant glue he has. So it would mean a trip to the nearest store. Probably on balance that would take me as long as cutting them freehand for the last 5 doors.

third door has a gap in the base when cut like the first, so it appears the glazed doors are fully solid on the bottom section and those that aren't glazed have a small hollow section right where I'm cutting. My doors are a little lower than usual

Question - I have a bathroom lock to fit, I'm ok with cutting out, I'm just a bit nervious about where to fit, the door is a 1930's 4 panel ( 1 above 3 if that makes sense). The top panel is glazed so I'm worried I might cut too much of the middle rail out and weaken the frame. Am I being paranoid?

Just read I'm supposed to seal the whole door before handing, including the cutouts, so I'm going to have to take everything back off again!

Unhelpful, but I just refurbished seven 110-year old doors (all totally random sizes and shapes) which was a two-month slog, but they look great and fit nicely in the matching random frames 🙂 .

I hope that wasnt full time!

Just watched a skillbuilder youtube - worked out how to fit my fence to my router, so much easier!!!

Next liner is really out. I said I didn't want to mess with the architrave but looks like I'm going to have to take it off. If I don't I'll have a square door and a wonky architrave next to it.

And so, the job gets bigger (as always)

I watched the vid, that guys attitude to safety is interesting!

Didn't spot anything, looked fine to me. OK you maybe not have a saw bench, so getting scraps cut to size would be harder.
I mainly used 12mm mdf so if you have a bit say 3 inches deep by about 2 feet long, cut in half, so youve two bits 300mm each then thats all you need, or one bit could be whatever, the other whatever deep what is important is that you can join them to make an L shape as per his jig.

The magic instant glue is just superglue, but if you dont have any then screwing the two parts together works equally well.
All yo7u need on your two bits is two identical cutouts, and you could cut them together using the ehinge as an approximate template.

I hope that wasnt full time!

Ha! No, but almost - sanding doors, undercoat, gloss, paintstripping hinges, polishing old brass handles and finger plates, dowelling the knackered old screw holes in the frames, and easing the doors where we've had new carpets fitted.

On reflection maybe it would have been easier to buy new ones after all 😀

Well just to say to those that said replace the liner. yes you were right. After lots or faffing, new liner will be going in tomorrow.

old liner appears to have been made out of floorboards once I got it out. New liner is twice the thickness.

the dust though. I thought I was through the other side of that. now everything is covered. again. and I'm going to need to repair the plaster and repaint 🙁

and I didn't really want a door there either but wifey insisted