[Closed] First year A levels – help suggest a career / vocation / Degree

I’ve suggested her options are;

a. Find a career of interest and go do a degree to work towards it.
b. Find a Degree course that’s of interest and see where it leads.
c. Find a University in a location she wants to be, study and go mountain biking!

I think the more import thing is Role Models - the question isn't 'what' you want to be when you grow up but 'who' you want to be. Universities, courses, subjects, a career even... they are the means not the ends. What you need to help focus your choices and motivate you to get there is an idea of the person you want to be at the end of it.

It's rare to start a science or maths degree with a clear path in mind - they maybe sound more vocational than they are. They are an awesome choice for providing versatility and employability, though, so from what you've posted a physics, chemistry or maths degree at a research intensive university sounds like a good outline plan right now.

Given the choice you wouldn't take a science degree at somewhere with no significant research base, it makes a very substantial difference. Just for reference the best research intensive universities in the UK are places like Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Edinburgh, Imperial, Manchester, Warwick, Bristol. Of course one has to follow one's heart - it may be she falls in love with the Bolton campus, but it's good to have at least a picture of how things are.

Maths is a bit of an outlier of a degree - it's still actually hard. More than any other choice that is one to try and speak with current undergrads to get a feel for the study. Killer degree if it clicks and she does well with it.

Cant go wrong with Physics and maths. Got engineering to choose from as well as finance fields plus just about anything. Mate of mine did Physics at Cambridge and walked into an Actuary job from Uni then moved onto hedge fund management. Minted now so very lucrative career. Similarly a colleague at work's son did maths/physics, went onto do uni then got a job in the IT consultancy game working for the big consultancy firms...doing very well for himself.

if sums is not her thing then History is a good generalist subject. My daughter wants to be a commercial lawyer for some reason, history is a good subject as it teaches you to structure arguments looking for evidence and presenting it in a way to support a theory. after the degree she can do a law post grad and the world of commercial law is open to her. The route alot of commercial lawyers where I work went through and again a very lucrative career.

Degrees are not the be all and end all and don't define a career path. You know sweet FA after a degree...they're so broad and lacking in depth you end up being a generalist within that field. If you really want to specialise in that particular subject then you need to go beyond degree where you choose a specific field of that subject to drill deeper. But at degree level its so much of a light touch across a broad field it doesn't narrow down your career choices that much.

She should combine options b & c, and take good advice offered above.

She should study the A levels she enjoys, and if she has genuine academic potential, probably follow this up with university.

But NOT because it leads to some specific career. Indeed, unless you’re talking medicine or veterinary, there aren’t many course that actually lead to a career anyway. It’s about becoming a person who then looks for a career that best suits them.

Above all, she should not worry, and just enjoy the subjects she enrols on in their own right. People like your daughter have the advantage of being able to study physics (or whatever) on the ground that she just likes it, as opposed to doing it because it’s what she has to do to ‘become a doctor’.

Your daughter could be me 25 yrs ago.
Your advice is sound. The ideal situation is she combines a b and c on your list. So sounds like a fairly physical science type course, now needs to find a university she’d like to go to (I personally think it’s more important that she’ll be happy there than the credibility of the institution unless perhaps she has heart set on accademia for a career). Then to help narrow it down she needs to work out which specialism —- reality is at 16ish your ability to clearly distinguish physics/chemistry/maths/geography/geology is somewhat difficult because they all intermingle anyway - even now people aren’t sure which bit I belong in! In many cases you’ll be able to move between courses (especially things like from nuclear physics to pure physics or medicinal chemistry to analytical chemistry) in the early part of a course.

Good uni prospectuses used to give examples of jobs people had gone on to work in from their courses. Google should make it much easier to find out what a metallurgist is or what siesmologists actually do day to day than it was when we were young.

She’s a bit envious of her friends who have plans, for example one wants to be a vet so knows exactly the path.

My only concern is that she does something she’s happy with and interested in.

I'm with you here.

I didn't know what I wanted to do with a career beyond "something to do with computers" when I was 14. Thirty-plus years later it's still the hardest question on my staff reviews. I've mostly bent the way the wind blew at a given time.

Some people have specific career goals and that's awesome, but if she doesn't I wouldn't force it. Sounds like she's a smart cookie so she'll work it out, maybe fall into something she loves of fall into something she hates and move on.

In your OP I'm somewhere between B and C. Most regular post-grad jobs back in my day at least wanted "a degree" rather than "a degree in this particular thing." For my part I followed my friends in terms of University location and course and that was a mistake, though my life would be unrecognisably different now if I hadn't and so I don't really regret it. At college, meh, do what looks interesting, it'll live or die by the quality of lecturer anyway so it's a lottery. Talk to students in the previous year if you can.

Having a solid background in maths, physics, and chemistry will be useful for many different careers so focus on general skills rather than narrowly aiming for a specific job.

Don't overlook the importance of humanities - taking history, political studies, philosophy, etc. as part of a double major can also be useful if you want to be more than just a technician.

The benefit of selective universities is that the students tend to be hard working, so the lower performing students are dragged upwards towards the average. At less selective universities, it's easier to cruise along and be lazy so top students tend to get dragged down towards the average. Better to be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small pond so go to the most selective school that will accept you. Location is fine as a tie-breaker, but I wouldn't advise using it as the primary factor in making a decision.

How do you decide on a career?

which one? I've done two in my life so far and about to begin a third.

Left school with almost no quals and had no idea what I wanted to do as far as I can remember. Pretty sure I only started wanting to be a researcher when I started college and got a feel for what science was like.

If she is into physics she should look to what unis are actually publishing the good research that she is interested in.

If she is into physics she should look to what unis are actually publishing the good research that she is interested in.

This is important if you are aiming at graduate level research study. For undergraduates, this means that the department will be organized around attracting prestigious researchers who can attract funding. Those professors won't be interested in teaching undergrads (and are probably lousy teachers, anyway), so undergrad courses will be taught by TAs. For elite students, this will be fine - they will be identified and groomed for the graduate program, but the rest will be ignored as much as possible. They are there to provide funding for the graduate program, not because anyone is interested in educating them.

Some people never do find what they love for a job. Some are set on being a vet or whatever and end up hating it. Great that she knows what aspects interest her to help the thinking process. Good A level courses, teachers and colleges will open her eyes to ideas and possibilities you and she may never have thought of.

My lad is year 12. Embarassingly good academically, but no real idea of a career. Also very musical. We'd stuck with "do what you enjoy and what you are good at, and see what doors open up for you" when choosing A levels. He had 3 weeks away in America last summer, meeting and chatting to loads of people around the world, and came back with a sudden determination to really push the music angle and see where it may take him. Currently lining up a uni application for music at Cambridge as his first choice.

Not the sensible secure career path any of us thought he'd go for, but he's following his gut instinct and he's happy knuckling down on his other subjects as well.

Unifrog - Contact her 6th form and get an account.
Will answer many questions she and you have.

What "stuff" does she like? Not subjects. Things. Does she like technology, gadgets, electric cars, machine learning, etc? It's far easier to pursue a career if you're interested in products/science of that field. The hardest part for many is being smart enough to contribute to those fields. If she's got the capability to do that, she can pick where she'd like to contribute. It doesn't always work out that way, often the first job doesn't take you directly to Mayfair, but so long as you know where you're going, you can get there.

Universities are going to be running open days, albeit online. I realise that isn’t the same, but actually for your daughter might be a good way of looking at lots of different subjects easily. We are in the process of making arrangements for ours, and they will be in July rather than June (to allow for the changes).

If she likes that combination of science, and particularly the applied and physical geography as part of it, seriously consider things like Geology, Environmental Science or Geophysics. These allow you to use a mixture of maths, physics and chemistry within a real world setting (and without the human geography!). They all have transferable skills, so you don’t have to end up being a geophysicist for your entire life if you don’t want. And before anyone asks, geology is more than just oil and gas!

Check out Leeds online open days, as we handily offer all three! No this isn’t a marketing plug - your daughter has interests in subjects that many of our students have. I realise she might not want to go to Uni where she lives, though it might give her some ideas.

Options (b) then (c). A couple of ideas for her to consider:
If she is more academically minded: Theoretical Physics.
If more practically minded: Astronautical Engineering.
For both of these she really needs to be at A*A*A level and also be focused on progressing to post-graduate level. Either will open many career doors/ alternative post-graduate options beyond the degree title.

Without having a specific career in mind just pick the degree that's most interesting to her. Science degrees are probably more valuable in that if she wants to get into something like engineering later then a science degree will count for more than an arts degree.

If she's lucky she'll enjoy the degree and up in a job she enjoys as well - unlike most of us :p

I started a sports science degree, got bored (plus was a lot more work than I was expecting), dropped out after a year, started in IT at the bottom but crucially enjoyed a lot of it (figuring stuff out rather than just doing something routine each day). Got bored of that after about 10 years so the last 15 have mostly just been counting down to retirement (only 7300 days to go, yay!).

As a slightly biased voice I would suggest geology. Good mix of all the physical sciences, usually only taught at good universities now and (well maybe) field trips.

There a fair bit of scope to push it towards various focuses. Geophysics is pretty maths heavy, or fluid dynamics stuff. Or you can go more chemistry heavy and do petrology. There's also fossil stuff.
Career wise it's a bit less clear cut than it used to be but mining is still a good bet and the geotechnical industry is always available. Or slide into one of the built environment consultancies bloke Arup and save the world.

As above science or engineering. Allows you to do most things

Get her to think about how she would like her life overall. 100% office based or mixture? Hands on? Tied to a big city (by big city I mean international city not big as in for the region). Travel opportunities (international). Out and about or based in same office / site everyday. Also she maybe smart but she still may really like the idea of working with her hands. Academic doesn't mean you should just think office based, I was highly academic but really would have loved to do something more hands on but felt that I shouldn't as I was academic.

Maths (I did maths) if a brilliant subject but in the UK pushes you towards finance and there is no point doing finance unless you are front and office in London New York / Hong Kong etc. Good in 20s and 30s but does she want to be tied to London or one of the other big financial cities in the world.

Engineering (I now work in engineering) can be good, hands on and opportunities for travel if you choose the right path or can end up just drawing CAD models, really matters where you work.

Software can be in any business area (I am software with engineering) has massive amounts to learn oportunities for travel and is constantly changing but it is very easy to end up in a niche that can be hard to escape or "outdated" in the eyes of many recruiters. It is still interesting and lots of opportunities. You do best if you are happy to job hop / contract (which means moving a lot even if just for the week) once you have experience.

Teaching (my partner is a teacher, maths) if you like your subject and interacting with kids seems to be very rewarding. Don't be put off by the horrible stories, it hard work but unfortunately it seems to also attract people who just want a stable easy job, if you live dealing with kid and your subject it will be brilliant. Excellent travel opportunities once you have got a years experience. Work in inernational schools, get good money, accommodation paid for and see the world. My partner did 2 years in Hong Kong, had a friend that did HK, Egypt, another in Cambodia. Teaching also has the benefit in the UK that outside London your pay will be the same. Most other jobs have massive regional variation. Money is actually ok as soon as you start taking on responsibility especially if you are outside a high earning area equivalent paying jobs can be hard to find.

General business consultancy is also popular with STEM subject graduates but you will be fully into the corporate world, which is good and bad depending on your opinion.

If she like the idea of civil engineering though do an civil engineering degree as I did maths and ended up doing programming but in an engineering niche but I wanted to do stress engineering as I had done 99% of a PhD in an area dealing with stress tensors thought it would fit well with some training but I didn't know software package X so no good.

Firstly, open days are going ahead virtually. As said, these give a better opportunity to 'visit' lots of different Departments and get a feel for the type of courses on offer - noting every Uni will have a different slant and feel. Much more so than attending in person, where you are expected to stay with the same Department for the whole day, I would suggest she attends a number of different virtual open days.

From personal experience I don't see any problem in not knowing what you want to do and following subjects that interest you. Because I was/am academic, I was persuaded to take a reasonably broad degree at Undergraduate to keep doors open and get some variety. I did Maths, Geography and Media Studies at A-level and found the social / writing parts of the latter two more difficult and therefore I focused on a Maths-with-earth science type degree. As above, it is finding a specific course that gives skills that open doors.

Interesting she most like mechanics in physics but dislikes applied maths, which to me are almost identical subjects. Could be the teacher and way the syllabus is being taught?

Agree she should think about what hands-on stuff does she like to do - play with computer code, mechanics and robotics (e.g. Raspberry pi), or maps/surveying, or astronomy, or looking down a microscope/lab work/crystals?

It may be that a Earth science type degree works very well for her, but I would caution she needs to look at the module list of enticing-sounding degree course names to see whether she can stick to the physical side of things (e.g. in a Geography degree she will likely have to do human geography modules) and I would recommend she consider degrees that take physics / maths / engineering / computer science modules within them. If at the open day you ask the lecturers what their Undergraduate degree was, many in physical geography, oceanography, geophysics roles will tell you maths/physics/chemistry undergraduate and then did research applied to the natural world.

Some broad ideas she could look at the prospectus and see if anything particularly draws her:
- Mechanical and electrical engineering (joint Masters) or Mechatronics (check the degree is 'recognised' by the appropriate Institute), focus on things like robotics, instrumentation, both software and hardware development (broad opportunities in Earth and planetary sciences and in industry, manufacturing more generally)
- Physics with astrophysics (e.g. Birmingham, Birkbeck, Kings College London)
- Geophysics and meteorology, Uni of Edinburgh
- Ocean and geophysics, Uni Bangor
- Natural Sciences (Cambridge, Oxford, or somewhere specialist in Earth sciences like UEA)
- Maths & Physics Masters which gives you the fundamentals in the first 2-3 years and then allows you to focus on applications to natural / planetary physics in yrs 3-4; looks fantastic on a CV: https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2021/01684/mmathphys-mathematics-and-physics/course-details/#course-profile
The trick is to look for a range of module 'codes' in the course module list, so you are taught by different Departments.

The old quote of "find a job you love and never work another day in your life" come to mind.

As to uni she should do something that she loves and is challenging/well regarded as an achievement. Gives motivation and tangible results.

As a choice, or the perennial fall back, if she wants to see the world and avoid the UK school system I could recommend teaching then going immediately international.

Half of us have probably ended up doing something we didn't expect from our degrees, personally speaking I also worked till I was 21 before going to uni. I got some life experience and learned what really crappy jobs were (restaurant and call centre) so it taught me the importance of working hard on my degree. I went to a crappy uni, but got a 1st and have worked hard since, I thought I'd be an awesome coder, I was ok, not great, I ended up leading teams and now I'm an agile coach way more interested in the psychology of people and teams than in the tech. I could have predicted none of this at 18!

If she likes Physics, she really can't go wrong. Says a Theoretical Physicist turned Epidemiologist turned Drug Developer 😉 . Seriously a solid grounding in Quantitative Science opens many doors. It's an excellent degree. But at A'Level I liked Chemistry most because fundamentally at A'Level this made the most conceptual sense, and went to University to read Chemistry. At every point where I had to give up Mathematics, I turned in that direction, so swapped to Physics, then Theoretical Physics. Now I get to do Medicine, Biology and Mathematics in equal measure.

Other options might include Geology and Geophysics later for a degree - does she like travel and being outside like my son? (just finished a Masters in Research in Geophysics)

My first thoughts might be Mathematics, Physics and Geography. Have a look at The National Oceanographic Centre in Southampton for some ideas about what they do. https://www.noc.ac.uk/science

One other point, my son did art GCSE a R&R, something similar at A'level as an extra can help relieve the tensions. I did extra Mathematics and Economics, but I'm a geek. Had photography been on offer, I'd have jumped at it.

With that background and no idea a simple route could be Computer Science degree > FAANG co for a few years to build career base and some £££. Pick whatever she wants as a career thereafter e.g:

Build career as dev
Do MBA and go into management
Focus on one of the more technical / Hard science aspects. Every one of the FAANG co’s will be looking way beyond comp sci into all things physics / chemistry e.g battery tech / self driving car etc, drone delivery. Maybe be cheeky and jump straight into an MSc with some self learning or into lab with mentor at selected co.

Basically mass shortage of well qualified technical grads and all these co’s doing all they can to support women in tech. Most kids come out of uni these days knowing not much more practical than tik tok. Sounds like she’s in a good place.

FAANG co

Is this a cover for a Vampire conspiracy? Genuine question (sort of), I've not heard the term before.

FAANG co

Is this a cover for a Vampire conspiracy?

Pretty much

(Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google. Alternative formulations are available.)

politician, get paid loads for doing naf all, no need for any real knowledge in the subject your in charge of (there are others for that purpose and then to blame when it all goes wrong), short working hours, big holidays, big pensions, lots of perks, nice offices, 1st class travel, chauffeur driver cars, get to tell the plebs what to do, retire early, wield power wherever you go, expenses for everything, free travel via lobbyists, no need to have any morals (you'll be paid handsomely not to by all those lobbyists)....

With a broad science base like that I’d look for a Uni offering a Natural Sciences course.
Not quite what it sounds, it ain't all trees and biology, but a wide multidisciplinary degree system for Jack of all Trades scientists.
My daughter started her NatSci loving physics, then hated it bt the end of Y1, but discovered a love for Geology, and has gone along that route to a PhD in geophysics.

Thanks, some great input there, I told my wife we’d get some good advice on a mountain bike forum and she hates it when I’m right.

My daughter was a bit overwhelmed with choices (partly from Unifrog) but having had a read through the thread now has a plan to do the virtual open days, research course syllabus and I'm sure something will click. @ahsat Leeds courses are certainly of interest, we’ll look out for those resources.

What “stuff” does she like? Not subjects. Things. Does she like technology, gadgets, electric cars, machine learning, etc? It’s far easier to pursue a career if you’re interested in products/science of that field.

I think this is a really good piece of advice. It's definitely the path I ended up on. I studied electronics (only HNC mind), was never especially good at it but it allowed me in the door of pro audio and then home audio electronics - which I am interested in and sits alongside my passion, which is music. I gradually found roles in the business which aligned better with my skillset. Crucially, I love the products so motivation isn't an issue and I'm genuinely excited about work.

So looking at what she enjoys academically and outside school, maybe materials science? Broad scope of outdoor clothing/equipment manufacturers and also clearly bikes 🙂 Or civil engineering and get her to build an uplift 🙂

Another +1 for considering what sillysilly said although I don't know how easy it is to get on a CompSci degree these days without some computing qualification from school. (I am so old that there WEREN'T any school quals and no decent CompSci degrees when I were a lass). An alternative is just to make sure the degree has a bit of programming in it - a lot of physics/engineering/chemistry etc ones seem to these days and then you can do a master's or get an internship/grad program at a software company. In fact if someone wants to be a sought after games programmer a physics doctorate (being able to cope with the maths of how things move) is often just the thing.

Source - am software engineer, seem to enjoy my job more than a lot of engineer-engineers. But I'm not someone who plays around with computers at home and have still managed to reach a senior technical level in the company.
A noticeable group of our new grads are very bright, confident, well groomed lasses from Eastern Europe. I went with them on some ladies-can-do-computing-too! (It was a day out don't judge me) day outreaching to schoolgirls and we had an interesting chat in the car. They had all done Baccalaureate style quals which meant they weren't restricted as to what subjects they could go for at uni. C.f. my niece who belatedly wanted to do Maths at uni having only done the one Maths A level which I suspect kiboshed her chances of a place at some unis.

Anyway if you can find a degree with a year in industry that's great because it really ups your job prospects. How about a blah-and-Management/Law (or some other workplace-useful topic) 4 year degree?

In my old age I think it's a shame we don't have the generalist early uni years that they do in the US (and a generalist school 6th form) because, as a lot of people have said, your career changes so much and few people TBH have a "classical" career. I think there's something to be said for exposure to as much as possible so you can find something that really works for you. School stuff is quite narrow and teachers mainly have experience of... School, university and school again.. so there is only so much of that foundation school can provide.

I also think you have to be prepared to treat a degree these days as "your first degree". So look for something that sets you up to continue learning and developing through your 30s and onwards, not something that burns you out or drops you in a professional silo.

I'd go for physics or maths if that's what she likes. It's important to choose a degree she has some interest in, and graduates of those subjects will be in pretty high demand for a wide variety of decent jobs.

It's usually a mistake to second guess the job you might want when you're 17, it's very rare to know what you want to do as a career when still at school or college.

Apart from the Chemistry that sounds like me at 16. I'll second civil engineering as an option, if you end up in the design side there's loads of maths/physics involved. You get the added bonus of being able to see things you've designed actually being built. Lots of options to go into at the end of it too (I've specialised in structural engineering).
Always good to get a few more women interested in engineering too. When I started 20 years ago I was one of a small few but its getting much more common now.

I certainly appreciate the time and detail that’s gone into people’s responses. I asked my daughter to write down some of her thoughts having read through them again tonight. The process has lifted her mood, she was a little down about not been able to get out and visit Universities and career fairs as she planned.

“Thanks for all of the advice, it has allowed me to start to form an idea of what to look at and what I know I don’t want to do. I’m quite a practical person whilst being good at theory and enjoying the content. I am pretty sure that I don’t want to do law or a purely maths degree as they don’t interest me enough and theoretical physics is too theory based for my liking and I would like something with a bit more of a practical element with real-world applications even though I find the content fascinating. I do a lot of trail building and like the outdoors but I would also like to keep racing so I know that I don’t want to go down south to university as it would be too far away from any of the enduro series that I do.

I enjoy computer science think that I would be more suited for a degree in a subject which had elements in computer science rather than an outright degree. I would say I’m quite creative as I enjoy drawing and have completed projects in technology as well. Natural hazards, especially volcanoes and seismology, is a key area in geography that I have always enjoyed and I like all of physics and most of chemistry. I have been quite interested in robotics and have also looked at geophysics which sounds interesting as it seems to have everything but I’m not sure exactly where I could go with it in the future.

I’m doing an EPQ on the whether Fibonacci and golden ratio application show that they are discovered or invented, which has been fascinating and has taken me down many different paths. My other a-levels are geography, chemistry, maths and physics which I plan to complete all four. I found that having all of my options open has made it difficult to know where to start looking. However, I’m excited for the future and what it will bring me!”

I haven’t read all the replies, and someone has probably already said it, but uni isn’t the only option.

I went to a Grammar school which very much assumed everyone was going to uni, so I went through the process a picked geography as I kind of liked it. Deferred my place and never went. I don’t regret it at all. I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was at school.

Because the assumption that everyone was taking the uni route the school really wasn’t set up to help people that wanted to take a different route.

About 12 years after leaving school I found something I enjoy and have been doing it for the last 9 years.

Up until a couple of months ago I would have recommended it to anyone, but now the aviation industry is screwed it’s not a great place to be 🤣

@ahsat Leeds courses are certainly of interest, we’ll look out for those resources

Sent you a DM

My only caution with natural sciences, having had tutees etc who have done it, as though a great idea, at many Unis you don’t really belong in any one Department. Pretty much everyone I know who has done it, enjoyed the choice, but actually wished they had done combined honours or similar, as they would have had more academic support from a single Dept.

uni isn’t the only option.

Totally, certainly my path wasn’t straight to Uni, though my daughter loves study and is off the chart smart, a degree is just a step but I think right for her, just with so many interests it’s trying to narrow the focus a little.

Sent you a DM

Thanks she’ll follow that up.

We've encouraged ours to do what they enjoy. If they're motivated, they will do well.
Not many at that age actually have a clear career plan, or even if they do they don't necessarily understand what that means.

We've also been encouraging years out, but productive ones. I'm a huge believer in getting out of home, earning money, travelling, meeting new people and generally finding who you are, not who your teachers and parents think you are.

FWIW, we've had to all but argue with school. Our eldest was the top student last year in the top state school in Scotland. He's a really smart cookie. However, his year out was riding bikes around Europe and Canada with pals - and so for school it's not been recorded as a 'positive destination'. A couple of his teachers were utterly baffled by him not going to uni straight off.