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Looks like all the car manufacturers are jumping on the subscription bandwagon, fit all the extras in the car, then force the owner to pay extra to ‘unlock’ them, including things like CarPlay, where you have to pay for an upgraded infotainment system in order to allow your phone to connect with it. Corporate greed in action.
https://qz.com/audi-a3-buyers-must-subscribe-to-use-basic-car-features-1851333470
I don't see how that's different to the old days of paying extra for electric windows, A/C, CD player?
I remember my Dad ordered a C-Class back in 2000-ish and didn't choose the 6-CD player, but it came with one anyway, presumably because "everybody" paid the extra so they just fitted them regardless.
BMW stopped doing this in September 2023.
And even then with BMW at least you could still buy the option upfront anyway so that was no problem. Not sure about Audi.
That's not corporate greed, it's good business sense.
It's a very competitive market so if that doesn't work for you just buy another mass produced brand.
I'd imagine that as people have found a work around for keyless entry and ignition, this will be hacked pretty quickly somewhere down the line too.
As a subscription service, my concern is how much control a manufacturer still has over a thing you've purchased. What if they decide to stop offering the subscription to that feature? They just switch it off?
Audi?
I don't see how that'll affect anyone on here. Oh, wait...
I'm not a fan of subscription services but being able to activate stuff for a one-off fee after purchase makes sense to me (I assume it's either cost neutral for the manufacturer to include the part due to efficiency savings in less build variations or they might even make money assuming enough people do activate stuff later).
What if they decide to stop offering the subscription to that feature?
That's already the case with connected services. Early leafs are losing their connectivity at the moment even though it's not paid for, and I don't think OnStar ever worked in my car.
This is a way of lowering the cost of a car with a feature to the purchaser, whilst retaining the revenue stream over time. Makes sense.
BMW stopped doing this in September 2023.
How come I’m still paying for “traffic information” then?
Post-sale activation is very handy for another two reasons…
1) the £40k “luxury” vehicle tax. If you can activate after sale on a car that’s borderline, you can avoid the tax.
2) p11d value for BIK. Similar to the above, if an option is activated after sale, it’s not counted, so you’ll pay less BIK.
I don’t really have a problem with manufacturers doing this, it’s just another way of paying for options. One that even makes it a little better for the secondhand market. First owner didn’t option Adaptive Cruise? No bother, just add it yourself to a secondhand car. No searching for a unicorn with it already optioned.
How come I’m still paying for “traffic information” then?
Because you're paying for a live service and this has always been the case for traffic, tracking, etc.
"I’d imagine that as people have found a work around for keyless entry and ignition, this will be hacked pretty quickly somewhere down the line too."
MrsSB recently bought a car with carplay on it. Turns out the ICE unit also has Android Auto on it but the manufacturer didn't reach an agreement with Google so it's not enabled.
I found a hack that allows it to be enabled. I've only just told her I messed with her pride and joy 😬
"the £40k “luxury” vehicle tax. If you can activate after sale on a car that’s borderline, you can avoid the tax."
I don't think it works like that. (Car valuation will probably be with all the built in options)
"Early leafs are losing their connectivity at the moment"
Not really Nissans fault though - it's because 2g services are being switched off.
Those saying it might be good for second hand buyers are presumably thinking of people buying a car that is only a few years old. Is there really any chance of being able to activate the features 10 or 15 years later? Maybe if it's been hacked I guess, but my concern is that this seems to be part of a trend by manufacturers to shorten the useful life of a car (i.e. make it obsolete before its time).
With EVs it seems as though we are not far off batteries that should be good for half a million miles. Put that into a nicely galvanised body and you could easily build a car that would last 20-30 years. From an environmental point of view that longer life would probably be even more of a benefit than the shift from ICE itself. But it's a worry for manufacturers who rely on us buying new cars long before out old ones are worn out. So, make the owner subscribe to as many features as possible and then you can stop supporting them after a few years and force them to "upgrade". Making a car more like a phone I guess.
Another clickbait article.
Audi, like other manufacturers, build vars with some specifications already in. You can pay to unlock them for a month, 12 months or longer. They’ve had this for a few years.
Of course you can also buy the model that has them featured without unlocking.
"Not really Nissans fault though – it’s because 2g services are being switched off."
The service switch off is not for several years yet, Nissan have gone early because it saves them money running servers. So yes it is Nissan's fault.
Also a lack of foresight on a consumer durable that there is not an easy way to switch the systems to 4G as it's been around for a good while and in planning for even longer.
First they came for the doorbells....
[i]With EVs it seems as though we are not far off batteries that should be good for half a million miles. Put that into a nicely galvanised body and you could easily build a car that would last 20-30 years.[/]
The fact that it is possible does not make it viable or desirable. It is like the 'Dubai bulbs' which seem such a great idea. Now designers are being frustrated by having to incorporate all the old tech lightbulbs when they want to use new stuff. Forgetting the commercial desire to keep sell lots of cars for a minute and think about the consequences of slowing the car market - less evolution and development as the sales cycles lengthen and lots of tech that is 10-20 years behind what is happening outside of the car.
Never buying a car with this. Bet it is popular with the comfortably poor German car club owners and makes the companies a lot of coin though.
The service switch off is not for several years yet
Errr, 2G and 3G has already started being switched off in the Nordics. And (i think) Germany, plus a couple of others. Much of North America and Asia Pacific is in the midst of the switch off (2020 to 2025).
No idea why they'd switch off the servers when the vast majority of their customers have no access to 2G. /s
Sound business decision.
Looks like all the car manufacturers are jumping on the subscription bandwagon, fit all the extras in the car, then force the owner to pay extra to ‘unlock’ them, including things like CarPlay, where you have to pay for an upgraded infotainment system in order to allow your phone to connect with it.
Nothing new though is it, just in the olden days we used to have to switch the features on in the factory. Now we can switch them on in the dealership, or when you decide you only need heated seats for 4 months of the year.
The hardware for heated seats is fitted to thousands of cars in which customers haven't paid for it. (Even back in the late 90's you could activate it in some cars with a 20 quid length of harness and a pair of buttons at £40)
Corporate greed in action.
Sound business decision
>Audi, like other manufacturers, build vars with some specifications already in. You can pay to unlock them for a
>month, 12 months or longer. They’ve had this for a few years.
Especially for features like navigation this makes some sense, there is already all the hardware for navigation because of eCall requirement but I really wouldn't want to pay 3000€ for Audi navigation when Carplay/Androida Auto alternatives work well. Although last summer on my rental car the Audi navigation worked better than Apple Maps in Germany and Austria, it had more up to date traffic information and routing options to avoid Stau.
For people playing for features like themes and mood lights colours I really have no words
Interesting this. I recently had a BMW 4 series. When i tried to use one of the functions (adaptive lights) it basically flashed up and said i had to pair my phone and pay for a subscription (about 150 quid if i remember).
I also noticed that in my recent insurance policy they said that they would not cover if the car had been updated outside of the manufacturers software or any other OTA updates!
i smugly walked back to my 13 year old car thinking i ws glad i had an old motor, only to be locked out by the keyless entry.... this stuff isnt new.
reeksy
Full MemberI don’t see how that’s different to the old days of paying extra for electric windows, A/C, CD player?
I remember my Dad ordered a C-Class back in 2000-ish and didn’t choose the 6-CD player, but it came with one anyway, presumably because “everybody” paid the extra so they just fitted them regardless.
Well the difference is you now have to pay for the item in perpetuity instead of once. Lovely little passive income stream for Audi.
Wish they would legislate this crap out of existence. Aside from being anti-consumer, it encourages the wasteful fitting of parts which may never even be used yet must still be manufactured and carried around for the entire life of the car.
If people kept their current car until it 'actually' needed replacing, rather than the three or four years until they just fancy another one and saw cars as a domestic appliance rather than a some kind of road-going-status affirming-spaceship, they could delay any of these issues by a good 10-15 years, save a good deal of cash, and the planet would be reasonably chuffed too.
"Forgetting the commercial desire to keep sell lots of cars for a minute and think about the consequences of slowing the car market – less evolution and development as the sales cycles lengthen and lots of tech that is 10-20 years behind what is happening outside of the car."
That's why I said "from an environmental point of view" as surely that would be good news environmentally?
less evolution and development
Less evolution and development of what, heated steering wheels? Keyless entry? F----g blinding LED lights? I think we'll cope
We will own nothing.
Yet more justification for manufacturers to control and monitor and continue earning from vehicles long after they normally would. What happens when an owner down the line wants a feature and hacks the car, they have no contract or agreement with Audi, but perhaps we're moving to a model where no-one ever owns the car, simply the right to use it.
It's my car and I will do as I like with it. I'd say I'll stick to the older stuff, but we all know it's good business for the government to legislate against older vehicles under the pretence of being more green.
Well the difference is you now have to pay for the item in perpetuity instead of once. Lovely little passive income stream for Audi.
People sort of do this now if they have a loan or lease. Plus interest.
Will be interesting to see if these subscriptions will have an end date. Can't see car companies still running the service 15 years down the line. Will all the options default to 'enabled'?
There are pros to this as well. On some newer Volvos you can buy the base edition and just use a computer and a tutorial to enable all the fancy toys which are software-locked.
Careful doing this.
Some of the "fancy toys" have dependencies to and from other systems.
because in the old days you actually got something extra when you bought an option - with these "unlocks" you're paying twice because you've already paid to have it built into the car, with the base price. If you go along with it you're a mug and the car companies will just continue taking the piss! Sounds like BMW have dropped their plans though following backlash, which proves that consumers [I]do[/I] have a voice.I don’t see how that’s different to the old days of paying extra for electric windows, A/C, CD player?
Jamze
People sort of do this now if they have a loan or lease. Plus interest.
Not quite, because normally if you specify an option it's permanently enabled and the car is worth more at the end of the term. Not the case if you subscribe to the feature. You've paid to have the feature, but the car has gained no value from you doing so.
BMW still seem to be offering subs. £10/month for auto high beam, for example. Guess it's for cars built in that period.
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/shop/ls/cp/connected-drive
I'd call it what it is. Its not a subscription service, its ransomware.
You've already paid for the items as it obviously costed into the build, the replacement parts if damaged, servicing and any insurance payments.
The car company is now holding those parts hostage until you pay the ransom.
£10/month for auto high beam, for example.
Who the actual flip would pay for that? Fool, money, etc
How come I’m still paying for “traffic information” then?
Jesus you even use the BMW built in nav for navigation? its crap compared to any offering from google etc. Just use car play or your phone !
Who the actual flip would pay for that? Fool, money, etc
To be fair auto dimming, auto moving headlights is the best thing on my Merc, makes night time driving so much easier. Main beam on full all the time and it just sorts it out and the lights follow the bends in roads.
its almost entertainment in itself watching the headlights dip in sections, its like a mini light show.
If I'm leasing it then it's their ball.
If I'm buying it then it's mine.
At the end of manufacturer support these features should be enabled as a bare minimum however as a general principle the subscription model stinks, it's just pure greed.
See also Instant Ink hardware subscriptions.
To clarify that's subscriptions for hardware you already own I'm talking about.
To clarify that’s subscriptions for hardware you already own I’m talking about.
Most Tesla's and a lot of other brands increasingly come with all the kit in the car for the top spec.
The only difference is the top spec has it all enabled, cheap ones dont.,
Cool. As far as I'm concerned if I buy something I'm buying the package and own everything within it.
Tesla is hardly the poster boy for pro-consumer practices, just look at their shocking anti-repair policies.
I'd be surprised if this is going to fly for long once the EU catches up.
I wish I could activate adaptive cruise control a.k.a. Distronic Plus in my Mercedes. I love having it in my other car. In some later models they did indeed include all the hardware on all cars, you can retro-enable it with some new buttons and a software update for a few hundred quid; but you can't add it to mine realistically.
Who the actual flip would pay for that? Fool, money, etc
Me, although not £10/mo. It's fantastic. When I learned to drive in the mid 90s I wished cars had it, now mine finally do!
I imagine there are rooms full of car execs reviewing the various threads on the web about this and frantically taking notes.
"Well if they'd pay for auto-high beam lights that don't even work satisfactorily, surely they'd pay a few pounds a month for access to the glovebox, and what about the boot? We could call it the 'gran-touring pack'. Surely the fast setting on the windscreen wipers Extreme Weather Pro pack is worth £1.49/month of anybody's money! What about being able to choose your own radio station the B&O Media Pro DJ pack? The possibilities are endless!"
In principle I think this subscription model is fine if...
- the initial cost of the car fitted with all the option hardware, but with the options disabled is the same as an unoptioned car would have been - but how can you check/confirm this when there is no actual unoptioned car to compare to
- They provide a purchase for the life of the car option that means the option is enabled forever - including for the next owner, in addition to monthly/yearly etc subs.
If the above is the case, then its no different to just paying for the optional extra when you spec the new car, but with the added benefit that you can choose to add something later if you decide you want it, or future owners can do the same.
It could actually be beneficial for a lot of users, due to VED based on list price, plus benefit in kind on list price, plus the fact that a lot of new cars are just leased for a couple of years and normally any extras need to be fully paid for over the period of the lease.
Conversely and far more likely of course is that any options ‘released’ will be switched off when the car changes hands leading to future revenue streams as the new owner has to pay full price for secondhand parts.
Any hardware that required a subscription, or worse an active manufacturer run server, to work is a big worry. It's feasible that your car could last longer than the company you bought it from... or even more likely that the brand changes hands and priorities and drops support for your old car and its functions that rely on an active unlock from them.
Exactly.
We have a brand new Guardzilla webcam on the scrap pile (I didn't buy it), company shut down and all services stopped. It's utterly useless.
I have similar concerns regarding any smart tech that relies on a remote middleman. It doesn't even need to be a result of bankruptcy, Sonos were damn close to doing it a few years back and Sony aren't shy about claiming sovereignty over PlayStation hardware.
Yet more enshitification.
It's sort of been the case for ages though?
The difference between a Mini One and a Mini Cooper used to be jus the ECU, all the hardware was already there and capable, you just had to flash the chip.
Even most common rail diesel cars (and any petrol that used throttle-by-wire rather than a bowden cable to the inlet butterfly) even my crappy old Berlingo had all the hardware they needed to operate cruise control, all the option bought you was an expensive button/stalk and it being unlocked in the ECU.
The subscription part feels like a con, but the idea of the hardware already being there is decades old at least.
To be fair if you can devise a lighting scheme that conveys the mood "I'd rather be anywhere else than stuck in another traffic jam" then you're a genius and deserve all the riches. If it's just some red LED's when you press a sport button then what are you an 11 year olds gaming PC?
See also Instant Ink hardware subscriptions.
Naaa, that's brilliant.
For the first time in 2 decades manufacturers actually have a vested interest in the printer actually printing.
I'm always surprised every time it just works, I'm so used to communication errors, blocked nozzles, alignment issues, etc that it just amazes me when a legible sheet of paper comes out first time when I press print! Well worth the £1.99 a month it costs 😂
BMW are still doing it. I had a courtesy car the other month. A brand new 3 series. Hit the high beam assist button. Option was available for £10 or 20 per month. Other similar options could be activated for a monthly cost.
Naaa, that’s brilliant.
For the first time in 2 decades manufacturers actually have a vested interest in the printer actually printing.
Not the ink.
The hardware.
Bottom tier is 20 sheets a month for 7 bucks. You can go anywhere and get stuff printed for for less without being tied into a subscription. Want to print more? Lolz, **** you, you'll need to be on a higher subscription tier.
As for the printer printing, just buy a cheap laser printer, job jobbed. You'll have the same driver lottery as everyone else but at least toner doesn't dry out between uses.
Instant ink is a con, the economics don't stack up in the slightest. All in one is even worse.
$6.99 + taxes per month for povvo tier, that's £5.48 + VAT which comes to £6.58 total. So over a year you've paid £78.91.
A little over 15 months of subs and you could have this:
Or if you go second hand you could get a colour laser for less than the price of a year's sub:
https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/284880921291775/?ref=search
Neither of those will likely need toner replacement by the average user. If it does then you've still saved a packet over an ink subscription AND had the "privilege" of being allowed to print as much as you liked over that time.
Inkjets are shit, all printers are bastards at heart but inkjets are just the worst. There is literally no good reason for any home user to have one. They're like Vimes' boots, they're cheap because the manufacturers know that's how they get a constant revenue stream, it's just an illusion of cheapness designed to fool the economically illiterate and those who can't afford to stump up in one go. All-in-one is just the next evolutionary step.
The difference between a Mini One and a Mini Cooper used to be jus the ECU
The Cooper-s and the works edition was supercharged, no? So a little bit tasty.
The standard Cooper is nowt special?
The BMW ones, I mean, not the original ones.
Instant ink is a con, the economics don’t stack up in the slightest. All in one is even worse.
I agree, if you print a lot then just buy a proper printer.
I have an HP that I bought at the start of covid and it's a hateful, hateful device, but I print very rarely, I use the scanner a lot more, and I've bought some 3rd party 'Pirate cartriges' that still seem to be going strong, touch-wood.
Other than that, the equally hateful software 'HP Start smart' software compainling about 'counterfeit' cartriges and refusing so show the ink levels, like I give a crap as long as it keeps printing.
Feels like enshittification to me.
It's basically going from an ownership model (albeit with a warrantee), to a hybrid lease model in perpetuity. If I'm paying monthly for certain "features", who's responsibility is it to make sure they work? If I'm paying for it as a "service", if it goes wrong, I'm not also paying to fix it.
I also wonder where they stand on competition? Selling the hardware, and having a monopoly of the subscription "services" is a well trodden litigation path in the EU, no?
I wonder if companies offering to unlock everything in your car for a $2k one-off fee would have to be accommodated? "No thanks VW, I'll get my mood lighting subscription from a 3rd party who offer a specific techno dogging-mode"
“a company director with a goatee. dangling car keys in one hand. the other hand flipping off the viewer. sat on a throne made of bones and car parts rising out of smoky surroundings with moody lighting. he has a manic expression on his face.”
Bottom tier is 20 sheets a month for 7 bucks.
No, that looks like it's the printer and some sort of service as well as the ink. Bottom tier for ink only is £1.49 a month in the UK. We pay £3 I think. And the printer works perfectly every time, we've had it for years. But then, we didn't buy the cheapest printer we could find.
We probably have paid more over the years for ink than we've used, but we are paying for a service.
Other than that, the equally hateful software ‘HP Start smart’ software
You don't need to install that.
No, that looks like it’s the printer and some sort of service as well as the ink.
Er, duh.
Instant ink is still a load of shit, you could buy a toner cartridge and be well in front by the time it runs out. Like I said, the economics don't stack up. My Samsung laser works every time, I pay £0 a month for a sub, when I bought it (second hand) for £90 we reckoned it had about 1000 sheets left in the toner, it's recently started complaining about low levels which tallys with ~10% life left.
It doesn't really matter how much you pay for an inkjet, unless you're regularly printing the heads dry up and you're left with a buggered cartridge that has only expended a couple of % of its available ink. How wasteful is that? And if you're not on a plan you probably paid 20odd quid for the privilege.
I like this. I've already got three cars from the same manufacturer and an unlocked version of the dealer software on a laptop, and am quite happy rummaging amongst canbus and control modules. This is the next step, I'll be getting these features for free.
Instant ink is still a load of shit
No, it's great. Perhaps we have different views on subscriptions vs capital outlay? Which is the point of the thread 🙂 I've owned printers for 25 years, I've done it the old way, I much prefer this way 🙂
It doesn’t really matter how much you pay for an inkjet, unless you’re regularly printing the heads dry up and you’re left with a buggered cartridge that has only expended a couple of % of its available ink
Not this one. We have gone many months without printing in the past, it's never dried up, I've never needed a head clean, the cartridges last a year or more. Perhaps they fixed the drying up ink thing for Instant Ink as the model really wouldn't work otherwise. Admittedly the fact this one doesn't clog or dry up is a large part of its success in our house but as above, perhaps it's linked.
enshittification....
Suzie Dent to the forum...
Thanks for the reminder to down grade my ink subs now the kids are pretty much finished with school. £1.40 a month will do me and didn’t need to buy a secondhand printer hoping it works and had some toner left.
I’ll be getting these features for free.
I'm pretty sure that the enablement of the subscription features is handled in a similar way to digital rights management is on digital media, so will need a valid (ie cryptograpgically signed) license file from the manufacturer, versus just toggling a value in the cars software on and off using the dealer software like you might to to switch auto locking on or off in an older car for example.
So I don't think it will be just as simple as you hope.
As an aside, I wish manufacturers put as much effort into preventing their cars being stolen as they do in preventing us from circumventing the subscription models.
On the printer thing, a few years ago I bought a refillable ink tank printer because I didn't want to subscribe or pay a fortune for replacement cartridges, it's been really good, cheap ink, and I haven't had to refil it yet, about 4 years since I got it. And reliable, no issues with clogged heads etc etc.
Perhaps they fixed the drying up ink thing for Instant Ink as the model really wouldn’t work otherwise.
So, what, HP sell different ink to subscribers than the shop bought stuff?
£1.40 a month will do me and didn’t need to buy a secondhand printer hoping it works and had some toner left.
You do you. Don't act like it's difficult to print a test page when you pick it up though.
As an aside, I wish manufacturers put as much effort into preventing their cars being stolen as they do in preventing us from circumventing the subscription models.
Where's the incentive? Stolen car = insurance replacement = more income.
I do agree about the ridiculous levels they go to to obfuscate their systems though, it's all hex values at the end of the day. Someone will figure out a way to softmod or even hardmod them, if there's one thing you can rely on it's car makers being 20 years behind the curve when it comes to security. Proprietary bullshit it may be but secure it is not, the console world has a 30 year head start.
So, what, HP sell different ink to subscribers than the shop bought stuff?
Don't ask me. All I know is that this one works perfectly every time and continues to do so regardless of how frequently it gets used. I've had shitty printers that dry up all the time in the past, but this one doesn't do that.
You do you. Don’t act like it’s difficult to print a test page when you pick it up though.
Then find out it’s broken with absolutely no rights to return. Horses for courses.
How the hell would you find out its broken after watching it working?
Jesus, you really go through some Olympic level mental gymnastics at times.
Whatever, like I said, you do you.
I suppose it's a bit like media or softwarwe piracy in a way? You've paid for the hardware, there's no cost to MGM/Fox/Taylor Swift for you to nab their latest off LimeWire. So where's the harm? The difference is that the 3rd party (the rights holder) gets no benefit from you buying the hardware, but it's the same argument used by the end-users, that it doesn't cost BMW or Taylor Swift anything for you to listen to Love Story in a heated seat.
The Cooper-s and the works edition was supercharged, no? So a little bit tasty.
Yes, the One was just a restricted version of the normal Cooper version (not the -S or JCW versions).
My housemates mum used to work at the mini plant and got one of the first off the line supercharged JCW's. It was a LOT of fun listening to the engine scream, but by god was it a harsh ride!
So, what, HP sell different ink to subscribers than the shop bought stuff?
Who cares? The point was that it just works. What they've done since realizing they can make money from selling printers that actually work for the long term isn't important.
How come I’m still paying for “traffic information” then?
Who on EARTH is paying for traffic info in this day and age? Did the subscription come with a pictorial guide on how to pull your pants down faster? What’s wrong with google maps or Waze…?
I don't like faffing with my phone for Google Maps quite as much. For me, the in-car integration is somewhat better with the built-in nav. You get a prompt next to the speedo, it turns the radio down to talk to you, if I need directions when I am already moving I can use voice commands straight, I don't have to reach down and plug in my phone or press buttons it. In my EV it knows how much range is left so it can direct me to a nearby charger (although I believe there is a campaign to make EV battery information available to Android Auto) - so little stuff. The car has live traffic sub until 2025, not sure if I will renew it or not. I might.
I'm another one who prefers the in car sat nav to google maps, or at least I do with bmw and merc in car sat nav, the ford in car nav was rubbish. Bmw nav was especially good because I could have it split screen with one screen zoomed in for detail and another zoomed out for an overall awareness of the route/traffic etc.
My Toyota doesn't have any Sat nav, so I use Android auto for that, but not Google maps, I prefer tomtom go, even though it costs 20 quid a year.
I bought a wireless Android auto dongle for the Toyota so whenever I get in the car it automatically connects to Android auto and fires up the sat nav without me having to plug it in etc. I prefer to have the sat nav screen up even when I'm just driving around not actively navigating so I can if there is any traffic congestion coming up etc
I prefer to have the sat nav screen up even when I’m just driving around not actively navigating so I can if there is any traffic congestion coming up etc
Same here but running Waze to tell me about pot holes (very frequently), feds, etc.
feds, etc.
😂
I suppose it’s a bit like media or softwarwe piracy in a way? You’ve paid for the hardware, there’s no cost to MGM/Fox/Taylor Swift for you to nab their latest off LimeWire. So where’s the harm? The difference is that the 3rd party (the rights holder) gets no benefit from you buying the hardware, but it’s the same argument used by the end-users, that it doesn’t cost BMW or Taylor Swift anything for you to listen to Love Story in a heated seat.
That's nothing like what's happening.
They're selling you a car with all these features built into the price and body, you have to drag the extra weight around and see no benefit unless you pay an extra fee for the "privilege" of using something you've already paid for.
The equivalent for your analogy would be buying a DRM protected album and then having to pay every time you want to listen to it at a decent quality, without ads etc. Do you think that's fair?
As I said before, if they want to do that for lease fleets it's their ball but if you're buying a piece of hardware then putting aspects of its use that require no manufacturer interface behind a paywall is just bullshit. It costs them absolutely nothing to run heated seats, auto beams etc.
unless you pay an extra fee for the “privilege” of using something you’ve already paid for.
You haven't already paid for it though. You've paid for the base car, the extra stuff they put in the car for free.
The example I gave above is similar. Merc putting the hardware and software for adaptive cruise in the car and if you pay for the option it gets unlocked before they ship the car you. They difference is that Merc don't tell you that's what they do.
When we buy things, we don't just pay cost plus a fixed margin for whatever we get. Is much more.complex than that. If it's cheaper for them to make all the cars the same, then they'll recoup the cost of the options from the people who want to pay, and those who don't won't have to pay for it even though it's physically in the car; so everyone saves money. It's cheaper for them to make the cars, hence the base model car will be cheaper than it otherwise would be, but people who don't want features are not obliged to pay for them. So basically everyone gets more for cheaper.
Looked at from a certain point of view it makes sense.
They’re selling you a car with all these features built into the price and body, you have to drag the extra weight around and see no benefit unless you pay an extra fee for the “privilege” of using something you’ve already paid for.
......
As I said before, if they want to do that for lease fleets it’s their ball but if you’re buying a piece of hardware then putting aspects of its use that require no manufacturer interface behind a paywall is just bullshit. It costs them absolutely nothing to run heated seats, auto beams etc.
Yes and no though.
Take the heated seat example. Manufacturers charge a fortune for it. £800+ on a Mercedes (Incudes heated armrests too!). The actual cost of the heating bits is probably <£10, you can buy heated seat covers on ali-express.
So if you're Mercedes do you either pay Sparco, Recaro or whoever is making your seats £10 extra per unit but save on the overheads associated with 2x the SKU's. Probably.
But then you've got an £800 hole in the price of the car.
So do you up the price of the car by £800? Or keep it as an optional extra?
Would you be this annoyed if they only offered it to the first owner at full price and no one else, or even just did it and never told anyone that the heated seats were actually already there?
The R&D for that 'extra' needs paying for, even if the hardware is peanuts.
That's where the music analogy comes in, the cost was never in the parts (the music file or the heating elements in the seat), it was always in the intangible bits (the songwriting / heating control).
Same with the auto headlights, if the car is going to have some sort of dashcam built in anyway, the cost of making auto dimming headlights is purely in the software.
Or "climate control", why in most cars is it a option costing hundreds of £ to swap from a really simple controller, to a slightly less simple controller. The actual cost of the thermostat is probably again <£10, but again there's R&D to pay for, the fact the basic car already had heating, cooling and fan speed controllers doesn't make any difference.
Or towbars. There's already a chassis rails are there, the electrics are already there, the car's type approved. Why do they charge people who want to tow £400-£1000 to fit one when the actual cost of the extra parts is about £50? Answer, because it's cheaper to put the chassis rails there, the electric there, etc and make it plug-and-play but charge the full cost of doing everything. Than it is to have separate chassis and separate wiring looms for non-towbar cars.
And lets be honest, they've always made their money / taken the piss on the options list.
the fact that some consumers have convinced themselves this is true is exactly why the car manufacturers think they can take the piss and not only get away with it, but have said consumers actually think they’re getting a great deal 😂You haven’t already paid for it though. You’ve paid for the base car, the extra stuff they put in the car for free.
You haven’t already paid for it though. You’ve paid for the base car, the extra stuff they put in the car for free.
What? Of course they haven't, you would never get that past accounting! The cost of the extra hardware is baked into the unit cost otherwise that makes no financial sense.
No wonder they get away with it if this is what people actually think.
Your example is more that the loom is cheaper to just be made up with the appropriate connections, sometimes you can get lucky with hardware but often not. My Focus is exactly the same in that it's early enough to have adaptive cruise activated but later ones had different hardware installed meaning that's not an option. Similarly I don't have a towbar loom to the boot meaning I need to strip half the car to do it properly.
Sorry TINAS, just read your bit. Agree with regards SKUs, R&D etc. but that cost should be recouped across all units otherwise it's just nonsense. You hit the nail in the head when you said all options are a piss take. It's definitely not the same as pirating music though whichever way you want to spin it.