[Closed] Finding quality workers

do you mean people with skills or just people who can be arsed to attend

Where are you based?

What sort of job are you offering?

I'm out of work after completing a PGCE and I'd kill for regular work.

Not sure why you're getting the scumbags. But there are still good people out there looking for work.

Get some Eastern Yurpeans in.

Capitalism, isn't it?

Maximise income, minimise output.

how much are you paying - if it's not significantly above what people can get in benefits why should they bother working?

Too many companies seemingly believe that workers should prostrate themselves at their employers feet, just because they've been given a job.
Looking around, other employers are using the recession to reduces wages to a level acceptable 10 years ago, and wonder why they have no respect or loyalty from there employees (not suggesting this is the case for the OP).

Still on the other side of the argument, a number of ppl I know can't get a tradesman to turn up (or even quote) and do the work that they have the cash ready waiting to pay for.

The company I was working for paid peanuts and wondered why they were getting monkeys. I always said if they pay was right then they would attract some common sense and brain power. Maybe not.

I'd love to know more

I recon most of my students will be great employees. Even if some are a bit tardy at college.

But I expect that they will end up in top line graduate professions with really good salaries

If you mean they are not turning up then on time or missing days then you have me sympathy and see no excuse for it

Without details of the job, work hours, and job description,wage,pension,location,etc, the job doesnt appeal to most people.

Upto 25k it service desk in SW London going on profile history.

A better question would be where do we find quality Managers, as IME this is where the greatest failing is.

London and south east mainly but will be nationwide as needed.
most roles just require IMO common sense.
paying between £80-£150 for 6/8hour shift, not wishing to openly recruit so contact me via www.mibsolutions.co.uk for more info

Anyway back to discussion, I dont think I am paying peanuts but still getting plenty of monkeys.Its not rocket science by any means really simple stuff that anyone with an ounce of intelligence could do I suppose there are just too many thick people out there lol

Does the company offer any training opportunities ? - a chat to some of my graduates suggests that too many employers seem to be expecting to employ only fully trained staff without being prepared themselves to facilitate any additional training or skill development.

I'm on staff 8am to 4.30/5 pm ish, but grafted like **** all week, 7am to 6pm, but I'm 38 have a mortgage and two kids and I'm sure it'll be remembered come Christmas time...

mosey mtb that is my day job 🙂 and they were looking for another engineer at the time

MIB Solutions is MY company and to give you an idea of how busy we are we have probably done 400 man days of work in the past 5 weeks

jamie oliver was saying something similar not too long ago.

i started work as a teenager on a pittance and was treated badly, however after hard work was promoted and a few years later got myself a fantastic job at a new firm by the age of 22.

i see that some (not all) people want something for nothing and are not prepared to put in some hard work at the beginning of a new position in a company. if it really is so bad, get some experience under their belts and move on.

this country imo has become very work shy.

I'm with the OP - been in business 9 years and for every good employee we've had one that takes the piss. We pay well (above average) and offer a good package (including a half day per week to allow staff to work on their own projects and offer flexible working etc) yet we still have employees swearing at us, turning up late, not wanting to put hours in when occasionally asked, not wanting to be involved as part of the team.

And these are graduates, not just 16 yr olds tossing it off for beer money.

the only roles that require a bit more nouce are server decomm/recomm but again not really too difficult

op - out of interest - do you pay everybody the same irrespective of ability, effort time keeping,sickness, quality of work etc etc put in

is there relationship between employee pay and company performance/profits, is there a relationship between company owner pay and company performance and how do the two compare

maths please, can you do the below:
'pretty good money' - (tax + travel costs + extra food costs + possibly childcare costs + etc costs)

IMO it's not the pay level that motivates people to " [i]turn up on time and work as they should for pretty good money.[/i]"

Obviously some people are more reliable and better workers than others. But the chances are they would still be better workers and more reliable if they'd been taken on at a different rate, higher or lower.
Pay level is unlikely to be the answer.
They've agreed to the rate on taking the job so it must be acceptable.

If you're having motivational problems with a series of workers, you need to look at what's wrong with the rest of the package.
Poor working conditions are a far more likely de-motivator, leading to lack of commitment. Particularly if it's worse than they expected from recruitment. Sort that out, and you sort your workforce motivation.

I suppose there are just too many thick people out there lol

Yet smart enough to get past your selection process ? lol

people think they are owed a 30k plus job 🙄
with no skills or life experience and just dont seem willing

Doing what for beer money? John, I'll 'come' and work for you if you're paying people to do that.

its easy unskilled work, its a chilled atmosphere, everyone works as part of a team and the quicker we work the earlier we finish for the same pay so you could be getting £100 for 4 hours work-that's hardly bad is it?
That would certainly motive me and I would hope most people

TBH, it doesn't sound too bad at all.

😀 I run a fluffing agency

op - out of interest - do you pay everybody the same irrespective of ability, effort time keeping,sickness, quality of work etc etc put in

is there relationship between employee pay and company performance/profits, is there a relationship between company owner pay and company performance and how do the two compare

maths please, can you do the below:
'pretty good money' - (tax + travel costs + extra food costs + possibly childcare costs + etc costs)

I pay people for the shift they do that's it, be it porter, fitter, it engineer,server engineer or foreman. if people don't work there is no pay, we don't employ anyone we just have various consultants for the different roles 🙂
ATM I don't feel the need to offer performance related pay but its something I will consider as we grow.
pretty good money is pretty good money its not my concern what other costs there are, people accept it and work hard or don't do the work

EDIT: So you are talking about self employed piece work?

Area of country and doing what ?

self employed yes, there is no way I would go paye, even more shirkers lol

London and south-east ATM but nationwide soon

so - it's like a zero hours contract, with no stability, no guarantee of annual income etc ? sort of like an agency , you're not actually an employer are you ?

No I'm certainly not an employer and would never want to be, I do give lots of work to my consultants though.

As 95% of our contracts are evenings and weekends, so all of my guys have full time jobs as well like me, so for all of us this an extra income that we all enjoy, we work really hard and play hard and enjoy the rewards, so stability isn't an issue

I wouldn't want to work for you. HTH.

Places I have worked where we use agency/temporary staff to cover single or multiple days work that way for a number of reasons.

The main two I see are that they are really good at their job but want/need the flexibility of that way of working OR they really want a full time job but, for some strange reason, no-one ever wants them full time.

I think you'll have to accept that offer work on a cash in hand day to day basis it's quite likely you will get quite a few of the latter type in the mix.

I wouldn't want to work for you. HTH.

mmm enlighten me

Ideally you have a job already, this is extra money on top, not sure what's not to like really but each to their own 🙂

Just thinking out loud in response to your original post.

Didn't think you were talking about it mainly being jobs on the side from their full time roles.

I wonder if they are equally poor in their main job then?

so all of my guys have full time jobs as well like me, so for all of us this an extra income that we all enjoy, we work really hard and play hard and enjoy the rewards

If that's true for most of your workers then maybe you just have to accept a percentage who are crap and not offer them any other work. Difficult for you, maybe, but seems the only solution.

A lot of the guys are trades people or have full time roles a degree of flexibility is good but we try and accommodate as the main thing is that the contract is completed with no issues on time or ahead of schedule. There are some that seem to be happy for this to be their only work, not sure why its just the way they are.

1 - I suspect the rewards aren't the same, unless everybody has an equal share in the company - are you expecting people to work as hard as you to build up YOUR company
2 - remember that your rates are weekend rates (and how do they compare with A - std day rates, B - other job weekend rates) and most people want to socialize then, esp people who already have jobs and might not need the money that much
3 - for someone who is free the odd bit of irregular work and all subsequent paperwork etc etc probably isn't a huge carrot

I dont think I am paying peanuts but still getting plenty of monkeys.

You're not offering much, most "quality" self-employed personnel would have feathered their own nests to be concerned with coming to work for you as occasional and casual labour.

So what is it you do righty. I'm always up for a bit of extra income..

Just viewed the link. What you looking for? Whip crackers to get the lads motivated?

but and its a big but is its unskilled apart from PM stuff, its easy to learn and its something a 16YO with a bit of common sense could do

As I said b4 I am not soliciting on STW if you want to call/contact me please do via website

how much are you paying - if it's not significantly above what people can get in benefits why should they bother working?

This is a ridiculous argument for not working, and partly whats wrong with this country. Why should i go to work to pay for them to sit on their arses? We may as well all sit at home twiddling our thumbs and waiting for the dole to come through.

If only you'd been up Stockport way. 🙁

I'm a graduate and a trained teacher and finding work hard to come by.

£60-£150 for a 6/8 hour shift

So between £10 and £18.75 per hour.

I certainly wouldn't rush to work on a self employed basis for £10/hr.

By the time you've paid your dues on that its hardly worth bothering.
(Compared to what any decent self employed person should be charging their own time out at)

And I certainly wouldn't miss out on my own work to do work for someone else for that money.

how much are you paying - if it's not significantly above what people can get in benefits why should they bother working?
This is a ridiculous argument for not working, and partly whats wrong with this country. Why should i go to work to pay for them to sit on their arses? We may as well all sit at home twiddling our thumbs and waiting for the dole to come through.

+10000000 lol

actually £80-£150 and most times we finish early so the rates work out better, our guys make lots of money in addition to whatever else they do, of course i would expect people to prioritise based on rates I.E. if they can get £25/hour elsewhere then do it otherwise if they have free time why not earn some semi decent money in addition, thats my view anyway

It's casual work with no prospect of progression. People aren't going to be keen as mustard for that type of work. The money is ok, but not great for SC60 stuff.

People aren't going to be keen as mustard for that type of work.

Depends on how much you want some income. According to the usual suspects on here there are no jobs out there so surprising people aren't biting the OP's arm off.

with you righty, its so difficult finding alf decent staff.

Depends on how much you want some income. According to the usual suspects on here there are no jobs out there so surprising people aren't biting the OP's arm off.

I think that this type of work is ok if it's a second income whether you are doing it on the side, cash in hand, as and when there's work or declaring and paying full deductions.

For some one out of work it gets complicated. Do you come off benefits, work for righty (using you as an example) for 2 days only to find he has no more work for you for a week or two or longer - then spend 6 weeks resiging on. Or do you do it on the side and hope you dont get caught.

I would suspect that many people doing this work whether employed or not will not be declaring it (again not aimed at righty, just at the daily rate/here's the cash type of job).

As an aside - do all your employees declare the income and pay full tax and NI?

I wouldn't say those were great rates of pay for weekend self employment, but I'd expect you to get some interest still. How are you advertising? Do you get people for interview who then decline the work?

As an aside - do all your employees declare the income and pay full tax and NI?

Of course they do.

Security is probably the main driver in this job market, does what you do offer that? If you're not getting committed people perhaps it will require more commitment on your part? A few shifts here and there isn't enough for most people. Try some older people, some of my best hires have been bored early retirees also don't discount the job centre there are some good people to be found there, often people who have been in jobs for ages, made redundant and deserve a chance.

I wouldn't say those were great rates of pay for weekend self employment, but I'd expect you to get some interest still. How are you advertising? Do you get people for interview who then decline the work?

Well I worked for these rates of pay for a while and thought they were ok for additional income whist living in London, perhaps we have too many IT consultants on here who don't get out of bed for less than £900 per day 🙄
I do get some interest from the limited free advertising I used plus word of mouth, but kind of going back to my original point for £100+ plus per day of basically unskilled labour the level of person we are getting is really bad considering the supposed state of the economy and what I believe to be decent money.
Most people who contract for me do at least 5 shifts per week so its hardly minimum wage and they are getting regular work plus the better they are the better the company does the more contracts we get the more shifts people get and thus everyone is happy

Depends on how much you want some income. According to the usual suspects on here there are no jobs out there so surprising people aren't biting the OP's arm off.

I think most people prefer to be sat on their asses, getting their giro every few weeks 😆

I suppose there are just too many thick people out there lol
Yet smart enough to get past your selection process ? lol

Well you said between £60 and £140 a day, no? Not sure why you're comparing it to £900. If it's the furniture removal stuff you're after, how do your wages compare to a labourer for example? Any mates in the building trade who could find a few hands for you?

Have you considered that your limited free advertising and word of mouth may be self-selecting a lower level of candidate?

IMO those rates are not bad.I worked temporary jobs for less when I was younger.

Have you thought about using students who are studying IT related subjects? Although you state it is simple work it might be good real world experience for them. The rates you are paying would be more than the alternatives such as retail and bar work typically available to students.

Well you said between £60 and £140 a day, no? Not sure why you're comparing it to £900. If it's the furniture removal stuff you're after, how do your wages compare to a labourer for example? Any mates in the building trade who could find a few hands for you?

Have you considered that your limited free advertising and word of mouth may be self-selecting a lower level of candidate?

First the rates are between £80 and £150 per SHIFT, a shift on paper is as little as 6 hours and in practice may only be 4 hours or less due to team working well together rather than spending most of the time gassing or updating Facebook.
I am not comparing it with £900 per day roles which require considerably more experience and qualifications please read what what said.
I give people a chance based on 1st impressions/recommendations, I will continue doing that as I feel that attitude(or apparent attitude)
is the most important to me, if they let me down so be it at least they had a chance.

I read what you said. Couldn't be bothered to go back a page to check your exact numbers. Perhaps the money isn't the reason you find it hard to get people to work for you.

Casual jobs get casual workers. Fact of life.

Working two jobs is dead hard, so you're going to have to give people some slack.

Loving some of the comments
Giving a true reflection of the uk work ethic
Too many beers so thats it for tonite

We pay decent money, offer decent conditions, in a good working environment in which people are treated right, and feel like they matter, and we recruit carefully. We have no problem at all getting absolutely first class people into the right jobs. (obviously I'm the exception that proves the rule 😉 ) Every place I've worked that couldn't hold onto good people was lacking in at least one of those. Some tried to fix the absence of one by overdosing on another but that's a tricky game.

Also, good people beget good people, in other jobs I;ve seen good, enthusistic, capable people get beaten down by the people they worked with, and turned into crap, miserable people like their colleagues. But it works both ways, a good team and a good workplace can lift people too.

Also, good people beget good people, in other jobs I;ve seen good, enthusiastic, capable people get beaten down by the people they worked with, and turned into crap, miserable people like their colleagues. But it works both ways, a good team and a good workplace can lift people too

I am finding this too, and its really true that one negative person can bring the whole teams motivation and productivity down.

At least if someone is bad we just don't use them again, I would hate to be an employer and have to jump through hoops to try and motivate someone who didn't want to work well.I know this sounds mercenary but we are judged on how well we do contracts thus if we mess up we lose the contract and no one gets more work from that company, so it has to be this way.

We have the foundations of a really good group of guys and as a result we will all enjoy the fruits of our labour, which will soon involve company trips away etc

A pal of mine is a horticulturalist in Gloucestershire with several acres of glass. For years labour was a major issue; the local job centre would send him English workers who would tun up late, still drunk, with all kinds of excuses, do little work, complain and moan and by the Wednesday most would have given up. Some couldn't even be bothered to come back on the Friday to collect the wages they had earned on the Monday. It was a nightmare and it took up a huge amount of his time and energy.

Then along came Polish workers and his nightmare ended; suddenly there were people who were willing to work, trustworthy, happy with the wages and most are still with him several years later because it's a year-round business. He can leave them to do the horticulture and get on with building the business and exporting his knowledge and experience.

My company offer a similar service with A/V and automation equipment, and I pay helpers to work on a casual basis too. I don't generally find a problem with the workers, but have had one or two just not want to be there. I think that most of this is because of the out of hours nature of the work, they agree to work, then find out that there's something better that they'd rather be doing. As this is an extra income to a full time job they could just not do it and go out with their mates/family instead which may be on their mind? Never really found a solution to this, except to try to give as much notice and planning as possible to make sure everyone is as ready mentally as possible.

If you ever need help with any A/V, automation or lighting stuff then let me know?

finding quality employers is even harder-- in fact while people think that casual self employment is the answer, then its a race to the bottom....

You've answered your own question. If its a second job I'm not surprised. While the idea of extra money may be good the extra hassle involved when fitting it around your day job, family commitments may prove too much for them.

Or maybe what you're asking to be done is really boring. Pay isn't everything...

I personally don't want to work more than 5 days for the majority. Don't have enough free time...

finding quality employers is even harder-- in fact while people think that casual self employment is the answer, then its a race to the bottom....

What I was alluding to earlier - personally I reckon if the pay/conditions/work is as good as you say, there would be plenty of people biting your hand off to do it. You're assuming the problem is the quality of the workers - maybe that attitude is part of the problem, and maybe what you're offering isn't as good as you think.

personally I reckon if the pay/conditions/work is as good as you say, there would be plenty of people biting your hand off to do it. You're assuming the problem is the quality of the workers - maybe that attitude is part of the problem, and maybe [b]what you're offering isn't as good as you think.[/b]

If you can't get people to stay and work for you.

It's almost certainly this.

Are you a bike company OP? Isnt there a bike company where everyone is effectively self employed (or was) from warehouse etc upwards.

If you can't get people to stay and work for you.

And perhaps line management issues?

Is this a new thing though?

In one of my summers between uni terms I worked at a factory making pneumatic control instruments and the workers there all used to work slow so they would get overtime at the weekends.

I had to cover for some guy that QAed them, packaged them up, and took them to dispatch in a trolley that he packed as he boxed each one.

He had to show me the routine and he must have had a chip on his shoulder as he progressed at an efficient rate of putting 3 on the bench at a time and checking them, boxing the 3, etc. Obviously a little quick for me until I had the hang of it.

He then went on holiday and when he came back he then got in trouble as they asked why he only worked at a third of the rate I had been, because he normally only did one at a time but I had carried on at his demonstrated rate, not realising that it was fast as it seemed an evidently normal rate once used to it.

That was 30 years ago, it seems like not much has changed - wasters then, wasters now...

I've only skimmed through the previous posts, but I don't think anyone else has picked up on this.

From http://www.mibsolutions.co.uk/

Which is why use highly qualified engineers to undertake the work.

Compare with;

Its not rocket science by any means really simple stuff that anyone with an ounce of intelligence could do...

...its easy unskilled work...