[Closed] Ferry delays, compensation possible?

We got 50% back from our ferry co after a delay last year but that was their fault, I'm sure someone will bear liability if not the ferry co. Think it depends on how long the trip and how big the delay.

Efit - This was our thing, I'm sure they'll point you in the right direction if not the ferry co. Good luck, hope the trip gets better for your daughter! 🙂

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/frequently-asked-questions/my-ferry-has-been-delayed-what-are-my-rights

TBH I'm happy to sit back and let the schools/interski sort the money nonsense out, I'm more interested in directing the other Half's rage towards the correct responsible party(ies)...

Suella wading in on the topic this morning has not improved her mood either:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/02/suella-braverman-denies-brexit-to-blame-for-dover-queues-of-14-hours

52% of the population owe you - perhaps we could have a compensation scheme similar to the PPI. Have you been financially impacted by Brexit? Better call Saul!

Maybe a higher tax tier for those who voted to leave could pay for it. In fact it would probably end up being the same PPI  money being transferred back to those of us who have a brain. Easy come easy go.

52% of the population owe you – perhaps we could have a compensation scheme similar to the PPI. Have you been financially impacted by Brexit? Better call Saul!

While I don't disagree, even I've gotten tired of the incessant circular arguing with the Brexit-faithful.
Some have started to question the project and admitted that the current state of things isn't what they expected/voted for which isn't really an apology, just shifting the blame to the Salesforce.

But beating up stupid people for being stupid gets us nowhere, I now just want the UK to get along well enough with our neighbours that my kids can actually visit, see the benefits of the EU and ideally vote us back in when the time comes in a decade or so (hopefully)...

Anyway in the meantime who do I point my angry spouse at for the latest cluster? Her rage can be quite effective at times, like a sith lord, but with strong views on customer service and the well being of her little darlings...

Just point her towards Mr N Farage of Toad Hall

But beating up stupid people for being stupid gets us nowhere,

No, it reminds them that they have created chaos through their stupidity and maybe think things a bit more next time they have an important decision to make. It also serves as a warning against complacency over political questions, so no stupid people should continue to get booted up the hole at every opportunity.

And wait until full EES comes in over Schengen if people think this is bad they’re in for a shock.

Her rage can be quite effective at times, like a sith lord, but with strong views on customer service and the well being of her little darlings…

😂

Train delay claims go back to the company you bought the ticket from who then get it from whomever the fault lay (operator, network rail etc). Should be the same here I’d have thought.

Need to blame
- everyone who didn't support joining the Schengen area when we had the option

- everyone who voted to leave the EU.

- Everyone who generates excessive levels of CO2 and therefore causes worsening of the climate.

That should keep you and the Mrs busy for a while.

I'd start with your MP, assuming either Tory or Labour they all voted for this shitshow. Though frankly port delays are the least of it.

The root cause is building all your entry / exit infrastructure based on being in Schengen and then deciding to leave it...

Without redesigning and rebuilding all the entry / exit areas to have 2-3x as many booths and employing 2-3x as many people and paying the French to do the same, you can't really fix it...

If only someone had pointed this out before hand...

Eurostar has had to permanently reduce daily capacity as St Pancras Station doesn't have the space for more booths, so they can't check enough people to fill the trains....

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/26/post-brexit-rules-force-eurostar-trains-to-run-with-hundreds-of-empty-seats

So much winning!

Simon Calder telling the spanners on GBNews how it is.....and it's not going to get better

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DYYH2aOjKJM

The root cause is building all your entry / exit infrastructure based on being in Schengen and then deciding to leave it…

Pedant alert! The root cause is building all your entry / exit infrastructure based on being in the EU and then deciding to leave it FTFY

UK wasn’t in Schengen, however whilst in EU we weren’t a third country and therefore not subject to stringent entry issues but hey blue passports so it’s all good.

Your complaint? The only place you can really direct it is the company that provided the services to get your daughter to the ski slopes on a particular day.

Was the rebate recieved last year in line with how much a ruined day of the holiday would cost? Is your wife seeking a larger sum than this? If so, what loss is being compensated?

UK wasn’t in Schengen, however whilst in EU we weren’t a third country and therefore not subject to stringent entry issues but hey blue passports so it’s all good.

Good point.

Not sure what our actual border status was...

TBH I thought the current motto was ‘Stop The Boats’ seems rude to complain when the government actually succeeds in doing something 🙂

operator will probably be putting in an insurance claim for the Delays and refunding us a bit

End if thread, surely?

if you want proper compensation, you should have been proper middle class and booked her on a flight!*

I’d feel sorry for the teachers trapped on a bus full of surly teenagers but if the school didn’t learn from last year that going on the first day of the Easter holidays was always a big risk it’s kind of their own fault.

*actually even for flights where it is law it’s such a hassle to get back in actual cash (KLM it is now 9 months, you’ve admitted to the arbitrator that you screwed up and we are due compensation - how about you just actually pay it!).

Slightly off topic but, does anyone know if these traffic hold ups also affect Eurotunnel.

Obviously a different town, but the border is still technically the same, though I'd assume traffic volume is less.

I'm on a tight schedule in the summer to get to Venice, so planning ahead for any delays is probably a good idea

Don’t want to rub salt into any wounds but Simon Calder saying “the only compensation you have is the emotional compensation of a blue passport”.

Hope the snows good. And that they enjoy themselves.

You'd think people would have learned after last year. I look forward to exactly the same story all over again next year. If there's anything more infuriating than thundering idiocy of Brexit itself, it's the wilful failure/refusal to account for it.

My son is on 2 coach loads heading to Austria and were the same - sounds like your daughter got away with it lightly - ours were due to sail at midnight Saturday and eventually got a ferry 24 hours later. Were meant to be skiing today but instead are currently somewhere near the Belgium/Germany border where they managed to get all the kids into a hotel for a few hours sleep and breakfast after sitting on a coach for 24 hours at Dover + the 6 hour journey down there at this side.

Like you, me and the missus have been pretty relaxed about it but some of the other parents have been going absolutely bat sh*t mental. No idea whether there'll be any form of compensation (there should - we paid for 4 days of ski tuition and the kids will be getting 3) but I'm not all that bothered... I just hope my lad can put the last 24 hours behind him and enjoy himself on a school trip he's been looking forward to for 6 months. And of course we all know who/what is to blame... ironic that many Brexit voters did so purely out of the idea of "stopping the immigrants" and yet the result has been more immigrants than ever crossing the channel and at the same time, we can't get out the country in the other direction!

About people learning after last year - the ferry companies etc came out after last year and acknowledged it couldn't happen again and that better plans will be in place this year. Turns out, like their estimated wait times they've been telling the BBC all weekend, that their plans for 2023 were also absolute horse sh*t.

Slightly off topic but, does anyone know if these traffic hold ups also affect Eurotunnel.

Eurotunnel restricted capacity last year to address the issue. I'd expect them to do the same this year.
https://www.route-one.net/news/eurotunnel-restrictions-on-coaches-draw-angry-response/

Compensation? You would need to check your T&Cs, there may well be a clause in their around immigration delays.

Can't imagine why there might be delays at Dover...

Eurotunnel restricted capacity last year to address the issue. I’d expect them to do the same this year.

Thanks for that 👍

Like you, me and the missus have been pretty relaxed about it but some of the other parents have been going absolutely bat sh*t mental.

Exactly the same situation for my 16 year old. Stuck at dover for 14 hours, had to do a stopover in Germany so the coach drivers could sleep, and lost a day's skiing. I'm just glad they got there at all as some trips were cancelled and the kids driven straight back home. Brexit or not the fault lies squarely at the door of the UK and French authorities for not sorting it out. I imagine the idiots in the UK govt thought it wasn't their job to do anything, and the French probably just did a massive gallic shrug and said not our problem.

the French probably just did a massive gallic shrug and said not our problem

I suspect there was VERY much a case of this and why the hell not. I don't blame the French for it... they're just demonstrating a massive "**** you" after years of Brexit "we'll be able to dictate how we want things to work" talk from our government. Turns out, like many 48% thought, that wasn't the case...

I suspect there was VERY much a case of this and why the hell not.

Because thousands of kids were stuck on coaches in cramped and unsanitory conditions for up to 16 hours with not enough to eat and drink.

 Brexit or not the fault lies squarely at the door of the UK and French authorities for not sorting it out

Not sure it's the job of the French to add capacity at Dover.

The job of French immigration officers is to control their border, they have a process to follow and why would we expect them to do any different?

This will happen every single year unless either:

1) Capacity is increased.

2) Demand decreases or is throttled (Eurotunnel has throttled demand from coaches)

3) Freedom of Movement in some way shape or form returns, good luck with that...

FYI we are not doing the same checks on the French side for boats coming to the UK, we're still effectively waving people through. Take Back Control - LOLZ.

FYI we are not doing the same checks on the French side for boats coming to the UK, we’re still effectively waving people through. Take Back Control – LOLZ.

Sounds like a mature and pragmatic approach to prevent chaos and ultimately the pain and inconvenience caused by unnecessary delays. What you're basically saying is that it's ok to cause the cancellation of kids holidays and/or have them endure 16 hours of uncomfortable conditions because 'rules are rules'. It's not ok. All sides, the UK govt, the ferry companies and the French border patrol need to get a grip in the collective interest rather than acting like children by pointing the finger at others.

Sounds like a mature and pragmatic approach to prevent chaos

Problem is, once you start down this street, thewn the proper fix never goes in. The potential for this to happen was repeatedly pointed out and the uk gov't decied that they wouldn't do anything. As a nation, we're reaping what we've sown.

As a nation, we’re reaping what we’ve sown.

Nope. This is an easy problem to solve that would saved thousands of kids loads of stress and some the disappointment of having their holiday cancelled at the last minute. All it required was some foresight, a little goodwill and a pragmatic approach. Quite illustrative again that the anti-brexit brigade are celebrating the suffering of people (kids this time!) to prove their point. It's really not a good look.

Sounds like a mature and pragmatic approach to prevent chaos and ultimately the pain and inconvenience caused by unnecessary delays. What you’re basically saying is that it’s ok to cause the cancellation of kids holidays and/or have them endure 16 hours of uncomfortable conditions because ‘rules are rules’. It’s not ok. All sides, the UK govt, the ferry companies and the French border patrol need to get a grip in the collective interest rather than acting like children by pointing the finger at others.

Won't somebody think of the children!!!??

So you're suggesting rules is rules unless it's kids going skiing then it's "be a good chap and wave us on old boy"?

I'm sure  the reason why we're not doing the checks, nothing to do with under funding, lack of infrastructure and trying to save face.

There is also a small difference, we are controlling the border to the UK.  The French staff are controlling the border to the whole of the Schengen Area.  They are doing the same check on Dover Calais Ferries as they would on a Ferry between Morocco and Spain.  We now have the same relationship to France as Morocco does to Spain.

All it required was some foresight, a little goodwill and a pragmatic approach.

1) Foresight - have you seen who is in government?

2) A little goodwill -  Going to say it's likely to be in short supply on the EU side after De Pfeffel and Truss.

Pragmatic approach - see points 1 and 2.

All it required was some foresight, a little goodwill and a pragmatic approach.

Long term planning? Pragmatism? Building goodwill between nations? That's what BillOddie's map shows you. We chose "sovereignty" over joint cooperation, relationship building, planning and pragmatic arrangements.

We chose “sovereignty” over joint cooperation, relationship building, planning and pragmatic arrangements.

Yes obviously it would have been better to stay in the EU. But that does not mean that problems like this can't be solved or that we shouldn't try to solve them. You can still have cooperation, planning, pragmatism etc between countries without being in a political and economic union, especially when those things result in mutual benefit as they would in this case.

Of course you can have all those things. But it'll take longer, be less deep, more temporary, less embedded and less reliable. That's what we chose. What's the point in leaving other than to have a more distant relationship?

Could we have left the EU but stayed closer for the sake of moving people across borders... of course we could... but our government (of whatever colour) relies on the votes of people who voted for Brexit to make it harder for people moving across borders, so has gone in heavy in that area. One of the smoothest border crossings in the world was never going to stay that way... a UK choice.

Of course you can have all those things. But it’ll take longer, be less deep, more temporary, less embedded and less reliable. That’s what we chose. What’s the point in leaving other than to have a more distant relationship?

Also both sides have to trust each other.  Fundamentally the EU does not trust us, Sunak seems to be making progress (see new N.I. agreement) but we're still a long long way from them relaxing border controls.

Until then it's just maths, what used to take 30 secs for a car of 4 now takes 5 mins. Shudder to think how long it takes for a coach of kids.

Possibly the most pragmatic fore thinking thing to do post brexit would have been to increase capacity at Dover but UK Gov couldn't find the £33m for it.

Possibly the most pragmatic fore thinking thing to do post brexit would have been to increase capacity at Dover but UK Gov couldn’t find the £33m for it.

Brexit SEP field in full effect... only considerable upsides, so no need to fund unnecessary contingencies... if any "surprise" measures really are needed, the relevant people and industries should just suck up the cost and hassle, nothing to do with UK gov or its post-Brexit choices and policies.

but UK Gov couldn’t find the £33m for it.

[tongue in cheek]Hold on, wasn't Brexit meant to provide an additional £350m a WEEK to the NHS. We should be swimming in millions of pounds of money we can use to build infrastructure etc.[/tongue in cheek]

Because thousands of kids were stuck on coaches in cramped and unsanitory conditions for up to 16 hours with not enough to eat and drink.

As if the French are going to be bothered about who is on the coach? They're simply following the rules that leaving the EU has meant have been imposed. Probably with a gallic added extra of moving at snails pace whilst doing so... All part of their "screw you/we-told-you-so" etc stance.

It's also in this governments favour to have these queues. Bad European losers taking out their frustration at not being free, like us, on poor holidaying children.

This thread lol

Don't they no oo we arr?

As if the French are going to be bothered about who is on the coach?

Well they should be.

All part of their “screw you/we-told-you-so” etc stance.

And here I was thinking France was a mature, sensible and compassionate country. If you're right then it would appear it's not the UK being the spiteful immature party in this situation. Seems many on here support that stance. International relations reduced to the level of schoolyard pettyness. Pathetic.

You can’t have Brexit without the inevitable consequences of Brexit shocka!

International relations reduced to the level of schoolyard pettyness. Pathetic.

Err.. the irony.

Come on Dazh, you understand that what keeps borders open within the EU is the agreed controls at their external borders. We're outside the external borders, extra checks now apply to us. Our choice. We absolutely can sign up to agreements that would shift those checks away from those European borders, but we choose not to, as we're not pragmatic. Now, these extra checks that "we're" not prepared to increase the infrastructure for, or sign agreements to minimise... when they create havoc... it, is, on, "us".

You can’t have Brexit without the inevitable consequences of Brexit shocka!

If you think a bunch of kids stuck at the border are a significant 'consequence of brexit' then you're deluded. Brexit was about political and economic union at a nation state level, and not about ignoring easy to solve problems because we're too pig-headed about the result of a vote seven years ago.

All sides need to grow up on this debate, and I'm sorry to say that from what I can see, the majority of the immaturity and pettyness is coming from the remain/rejoin side. I always thought those of us who opposed brexit were better than this. Clearly I was wrong. 😕

Come on Dazh, you understand that what keeps borders open within the EU is the agreed controls at their external borders.

Yes I do. I also understand that in *exceptional circumstances* rules and regulations can be waived or relaxed. If thousands of kids stuck at the border for 16 hours without sufficient food, water and sanitation isn't a good enough reason for the French do to that then I think very much less of them than I did before, and I think very much less of those who defend that.

and not about ignoring easy to solve problems because we’re too pig-headed

Border problems are not "easy to solve"... decades of work, cupboards of legislation and legal frame working goes into minimising frictions at borders. "Why isn't the world more simple", "what's the point of all these rules", "why do we need to agree things across a number of countries"... well... meet the real world.

well… meet the real world.

Nonsense. Rules and regulations are relaxed or ignored in all sorts of situations in the interests of public safety and other concerns. This was unarguably one of those situations.

Because kids going skiing have been hit with something similar to what couriers, lorry drivers, exporters, orchestras, roadies, actors, exhibitors, cheese makers and candlestick makers have been telling us for years now... you think we've now been hit with "exceptional circumstances"? I'd go with "likely and foreseen unfortunate circumstances".

But hang on, aren't the UK Gov threatening to deport kids to Rwanda if they come across in small boats, probably without food, water and decent sanitation? Why can't we "relax the rules" for them rather than Polly who's missed a day of Skiing?

If you don’t think a bunch of kids stuck at the border is a ‘consequence of brexit’ then you’re deluded. It’s been pointed out repeatedly that by leaving the EU the UK gave up its place to influence the increasing Schengen related border controls across the EU’s external borders and British citizen became just another third country bod when reaching border controls.

Unfortunately it is not an easy to fix problem as it requires considerable political will from the UK, currently missing, significant infrastructure changes, currently missing, and a strong desire on the part of the French government to devote resources to a problem they haven’t really created and which is off very limited economic impact to them. For whatever reason all those with an interest in getting transport from UK through Calais expedited, or who experienced the same problems last year, don’t seem to have done much.

*exceptional circumstances* so exceptional they happened last year as well but schools, tour companies and ferry companies took no steps to prevent it? As another poster mentioned Eurotunnel choked capacity for coaches because of this problem but other chose not too bother by the look of it.

Your view of other’s immaturity and pettiness seems a bit misplaced as the majority of hysterical ranting seems to be coming from you.

Yes I do. I also understand that in *exceptional circumstances* rules and regulations can be waived or relaxed.

So we're back to..."So you’re suggesting rules is rules unless it’s kids going skiing then it’s “be a good chap and wave us on old boy”?"

On a more practical level, should your kid get waived through at Easter and NOT get their passport stamped on the way out but get a stamp on the way back, you are going to have fun trying to head to over to France in the Summer as passport control know they were in the EU but don't know how long for.

And don't forget we have the Biometric scans coming at the end of 2023. Initial scanning takes 10 mins for a car of 4 apparently.  So that will be fun!

you think we’ve now been hit with “exceptional circumstances”?

You don't think the fact that it was kids merits a little more consideration than truck drivers? Nice!

And it was exceptional because of the time of year and the impact on those caught up in it. I've been across that border multiple times since brexit with no problems. This wasn't a normal situation. Would the world have fallen in if the UK and particularly the French govt agreed to relax the rules a bit for a couple of days to prevent what they knew would happen? Whichever way you look at it, it's indefensible.

On a more practical level, should your kid get waived through at Easter and NOT get their passport stamped on the way out but get a stamp on the way back

Oh what an intractable problem! Easily solved by double stamping the passports on the way back for those coaches involved. They're a bunch of kids going skiing not potential immigrants trying to overstay their welcome!

The EU’s Schengen rules also state

“It should be possible to have checks at external borders relaxed in the event of exceptional and unforeseeable circumstances in order to avoid excessive waiting time at border crossing points. The systematic stamping of the documents of third-country nationals remains an obligation in the event of border checks being relaxed. “

So stamping British passports would still be a requirement even under relaxed regimes and as mentioned it’s not exceptional if it happens every Easter holidays.

'Yes I do. I also understand that in *exceptional circumstances* rules and regulations can be waived or relaxed. If thousands of kids stuck at the border for 16 hours without sufficient food, water and sanitation isn’t a good enough reason for the French do to that then I think very much less of them than I did before, and I think very much less of those who defend that.'
No that is not a good reason at all. It's a jolly, and it's up to the border authorities to have resources in place to sort it out. They can go home and the ferry companys/border force allocate slots when there is free space to process them. I'm not really seeing a good reason for 'exceptional circumstances' being a euphamism for bad planning. Signed, someone who lives in the Schengen zone and wonders why the UK always thinks it needs treating one notch better than anyone else

The callousnous and schadenfruede on display on this thread really is something to behold. I really hope none of your kids go through something like this. Have a word with yourselves.

You don’t think the fact that it was kids merits a little more consideration than truck drivers? Nice!

It was one of my little darlings in the queue of doom and even I recognise this is a far bigger issue that a once annually inconvenienced bunch of kids, They were fine, pissed off but fine. the frequency and scale of this type of balls-up seems to be increasing, funnily enough since Brexit. My sincere condolences go to Lorry Drivers and the poor sods living nearby the port...

And it was exceptional because of the time of year and the impact on those caught up in it. I’ve been across that border multiple times since brexit with no problems. This wasn’t a normal situation.

It wasn't a Normal situation, but it was foreseeable, those coaches were booked on months ago, I don't know which systems at which organisations need to be sharing data to ensure resources meet demand, but if they can't figure out based on the last few decades that busses full of kids were going to be at Dover this weekend they need sacking and replacing...

I really hope none of your kids go through something like this.

Nobody wants any kids going through something like this. Other people have simply suggested your anger might be misdirected, which seems to have sent you off on one and start throwing accusations around.

The callousnous and schadenfruede on display on this thread really is something to behold. I really hope none of your kids go through something like this. Have a word with yourselves.

I think it's terrible that we have a Govt that has completely abdicated from the responsibility of governing, and considers its job instead to be generating sound-bites and outrage to motivate its base and own the libs.

But this is where we are, and other than not voting for them, I don't think there is much that any of us can do.

Not sure it’s the job of the French to add capacity at Dover.

The job of French immigration officers is to control their border

ICYMI, the French border control point is in Dover, before you get on the ferry. When you get off the ferry, you roll straight onto the autoroute.

Dover Port needs to provide the inspection booths, Police Nationale needs to staff them. Fwiw, there were unstaffed booths all through the weekend.

what keeps borders open within the EU is the agreed controls at their external borders.

That's true, but there were never open borders between the UK and France, as the UK and Ireland were always outside the Schengen Zone.

The callousnous and schadenfruede on display on this thread really is something to behold. I really hope none of your kids go through something like this. Have a word with yourselves.

Lol, what a drama queen! They're spending a bit more time on a coach than originally planned, they're not being conscripted to join an army FFS

The callousnous and schadenfruede on display on this thread really is something to behold. I really hope none of your kids go through something like this. Have a word with yourselves.

Lol, what a drama queen! They’re spending a bit more time on a coach than originally planned, they’re not being conscripted to join an army FFS

And this thread was literally started by a parent going through this who is more calm about it than dazh who seems to be having a serious 'won't someone think of the children moment' on behalf of them. 😱

It's the nature of travel - delays happed and things break.

Last time I came back from France with a group the bus broke down in France and it took 10 hours to get another one.

The only additional layer here is the lack of motivation for planning and resources needed for the extra complexity of Brexshit.

You could blame those who fell that it is appropriate to waste natural resources by holidaying abroad . Somewhat silly mmaybe? After all the Uk is nice enough. Why be greedy?
Oops, sorry forgot that the STW masses only see other peoples "errors."
More middle ground it wasn't unlikely that this would happen and as the OP said, it has happened before so gettiing all upset isn't much use is it?

If only the French had foreseen this problem coming and put in a request to build more booths.....oh, they did. https://www.cityam.com/govt-rejects-33m-proposal-for-more-passport-booths-at-dover-leaving-longer-queues-more-likely/

But no matter, the return traffic into the UK is not so bad as the UK border forces are electing not to carry out full checks - that's taking back control of our borders and keeping the riffraff out right there. So if you want to enter Fortress Britain with our iron clad post-Brexit proud chest thumping blue passport waving barriers, just wait until it's a bit busy on a bank holiday.

The callousnous and schadenfruede on display on this thread really is something to behold. I really hope none of your kids go through something like this. Have a word with yourselves.

Some of us do have kids and friends caught up.

And we're ****ing pissed off that no one in a position of power has sorted it out in the 7 years since the vote, when this kind of shit was dismissed as Project Fear.

I’m with the pissed off parents, that conscription comment up there is just ****ing stupid. I don’t doubt there were a range of factors, most of which were foreseen and therefore avoidable. This isn’t about a single broken down coach Matt, which in many cases would be unforeseen and of course isolated.

https://twitter.com/MichaelTakeMP/status/1642789754977517577?s=20

Delays happen at the ferry port and Eurotunnel every school holiday, I remember being stuck in it last summer. Every year there is an excuse about brexit, operational issues, French border control, IT systems and everything in-between. I cant see it going away any time soon either.

Talking to a non-British friend of mine the other day and he was saying that despite having lots of friends over in the UK, he often reads things online that do little to sway him from the general idea that, as Brits, we really are an "Exceptionalist, Cake & Eat it, Blame everyone else for our mistakes" sort of a nation. He says phrases like "The EU will "beg us" for this that and the other" haven't helped paint us in a particularly favourable light and our politicians being untrustworthy has pretty much sealed our fate.

Of course all countries have their problems, no one's perfect, but we do seem to have made things many times worse than "the average".

I can't see an easy exit to the corner we now find ourselves painted into. Perhaps, like an addict, before we can start to heal, we first have to admit out loud that we have a problem - but I'm not sure that's in our nature.

as Brits, we really are an “Exceptionalist,

FFS it's not exceptionalist to expect that kids shouldn't have to sit on a coach for 16 hours because the port authorities controlling the border can't figure out a simple problem like checking passports and keeping the traffic moving.

FFS it’s not exceptionalist to expect that kids shouldn’t have to sit on a coach for 16 hours because the [s]port authorities[/s] [b]government who oversee and fund[/b] controlling the border can’t figure out a [s]simple problem[/s] [b]post brexshit issue of our own causing[/b] like checking passports and keeping the traffic moving.

FTFY

FFS it’s not exceptionalist to expect that kids shouldn’t have to sit on a coach for 16 hours because the port authorities controlling the border can’t figure out a simple problem like checking passports and keeping the traffic moving.

It is when you’ve had ample warning the problem will arise, you’ve made no attempts to mitigate the issues, you’ve made conscious decisions which will actually amplify the problem and you then expect another country to bin off agreements and treaties they’ve made in order to sort out your mess - that’s pretty much exceptionalism.

FTFY

You haven't fixed anything, that's exactly what I said but with more words. I'm not denying it's a post-brexit issue, obviously it is. What I'm saying though is that it is easily solvable, and not an inevitable outcome of not being in the EU. I know it fits the narrative of 'we should never have left', but what's the point in that? Seems to me many on here would prefer stuff like this happening repeatedly rather than fixing it so that they can feel comfortable saying 'we told you so'. As I said, it's not a good look.

What I’m saying though is that it is easily solvable,

Indeed - we can pay for more resources to make it faster. Something we didn't need to do before Brexit.

and not an inevitable outcome of not being in the EU.

Freedom of movement vs no freedom of movement (with additional checks and security needed). Yes. Yes it was inevitable.

And not unique
- heading into Spain in the summer from the ferry saw every other European nation just drive off and head into Spain, while us brits sat in a queue to be checked and searched.
- we had a huge queue for a flight from Portugal for similar reasons - Brits and rest of the world waiting over 2hrs, EU citizens waltzed through to security.