Feeling guilty about not working when on holiday

Management problem, not yours. Let them deal with it.

Out of office is on, calendar is blocked out, but I’m getting constant missed calls, mails, messages, from work.

Why are you looking at them, or do you use the same phone for both work & private?

If it's your own phone, you know what to do!

Send 'em an email saying 'See you next Tuesday'.

How would these people react if you contacted them on holiday?

I have never thought about work once I finish and logoff. Either for the day or for a holiday. 😀

You have two options,

1) leave it until Tuesday, be prepared for a crappy day (this would affect my enjoyment of the bank holiday tbh)

2) deal with it today, but speak to your boss and say that you'll be taking "holiday" after go live to make up for the inconvenience

Same phone for both work and private (my choice - I struggle enough with 1 phone, the idea of managing 2 is horrific), so I don't want to turn it off as I've got personal stuff happening as well.

"Send ’em an email saying ‘See you next Tuesday’."
Trust me, these last few weeks its been very, very tempting.

I know its stupid, I believe its stupid, but still - I have this desperate urge to be a good little boy and get involved. Its not even like I'll get a gold star for the effort like when we were at school!

You wouldn't dream of doing it to a colleague, so let your response be guided by that.

Why do we let ourselves get like this??

Its not compulsary. Once I've logged off all thoughts of work are immediately erased from my head

If someone was emailing me or phoning me when they knew I was on holiday they'd be getting a pretty sharp two word answer and instrcted in no uncertain terms never to do it again

Your guilt is associated with your lack of obvious need for taking the time off for holiday (other than to lose it). So you need to do something MORE rewarding to make the two days more worthwhile and less guilt-inducing. Get the bike out!

Or volunteer your service, and as said, take the time text week. Your manager should be more than happy with that flexibility and add multiple Brownie Points in your favour.

BTW I'm like you - one phone, emails for work and play on the one device. I tend not to switch off, but "Science never sleeps" and I think for a living. It takes a week to really switch off from work. And sometimes, you just have to attend a meeting (in my case presenting to the Board after riding across Mallorca).

I’m similar to you OP. Find it very hard to switch off from work. Some good advice so far from more sensible individuals.

"Its not compulsary. Once I’ve logged off all thoughts of work are immediately erased from my head"

Y'see I've never managed that. I lie awake in bed at night working through a practical task on site and figuring out ways to optimise it. I'll be mid-ride and have a Eureka moment of how to solve a problem. I'll be scratching my balls in the bath and have a "wouldn't it be cool if...?" idea.

(This bit of the company is the kind of environment where most of the site staff (whom I'm loosely affiliated with) end up racking up months of extra lieu time which they then can't take and don't get paid for. Not something I'm into.)

Same phone for both work and private (my choice – I struggle enough with 1 phone, the idea of managing 2 is horrific), so I don’t want to turn it off as I’ve got personal stuff happening as well.

Can you run the work stuff in separate apps to the personal stuff? I have a phone that I use for work and personal stuff but have my work email in Outlook/Teams and turn the notifications off when I'm not at work and remain in blissful ignorance until I go back to work again. Personal stuff is Gmail/Whatsapp etc

Sounds a bit like your "Lessons Learned" report is starting to write itself...

The most resilient thing that we can do for ourselves at work is learn how to say "no".

I think you need to be extremely clear you are out of the office and will not be contacted. If you are just missing the calls or left it ambiguous, which I am often guilty of, then it ends up being worse for everyone. I now make it clear that if you are calling me when I'm off, something better be properly wrong.

Ah, you have fallen into the classic problem of one mobile device for everything.

As a starter, get your work email and your personal email into separate apps. I have outlook & teams on my personal mobile specifically for work, but I don't use outlook for my personal emails. This way I can control what electronic notifications I recieve from work at any given time. Default is off, and I will only turn them on if I am working but cannot be at my laptop for any reason.

The mobile umber is harder, I don't have a solution here other than have your organisation set up external phone numbers in teams. This way you can manage incoming calls along with teams easily by turning off notifications when on holiday.

I do get it though. It's very hard to simply switch off.

This way I can control what electronic notifications I recieve

I have all notification turned off and my phone is always on silent. The watch rings for phone but not WhatsApp. It takes discipline to continuously remind the apps that I do not want ANY notifications. A single switch would be nice, but is obviously not in the interests of Apple and it's app writers. Work on outlook, personal on Mail.

I always ask myself "What would they do if I was dead?" because when I'm off work, on scheduled annual leave, they've got the same likelihood of me responding to calls and emails as if my ashes had just been spread in the desert.

The answer is everyone always just deals with it.

I'm the same as you, I have tomorrow off as a use it or lose it holiday day.  I'll just be doing the standard faffing but will have one eye/ear on my single (I really cannot be bothered to manage 2) phone and will respond to anything important.

For those who work in a '9-5' type job when you effectively clock in/out for the day I can see why this would seem madness.  I work in sales, I take this as being part of the job, as much as being able to take an hour at lunch when working from home for a cycle ride when the diary is clear.  I'm effectively the manager of my own business, so if it's going to benefit me taking a call or doing an email whist on holiday then so be it.  I'm also paid relatively well which helps.

I find it hard to switch off fully from work, so far as thinking about things outside of my working hours (walking the dog, on my commute, on my lunchtime cycle, in bed).  I put this down to the consequence of my particular career choice.  Ultimately I could change my job to something les demanding (in terms of the required flexibility of time - I fully appreciate there  are far more demanding jobs than mine with a very fixed working day), but at the same time I'd likely be paid less and have less flexibility day-to-day.

Its not compulsary. Once I’ve logged off all thoughts of work are immediately erased from my head

Me to - the older I get the firmer I take this approach too.

I can count on one hand the amount of customers I'd even consider doing out of hours work for.

Buy yes, you need two phones and maybe even two computers so you don't even look at work stuff at home.

Sound like you've done your share of the project anyway and would just be picking up the slack from those who've sat on it. Let it disrupt their Easter.

OP I've been doing some coaching with a senior leader here who has a similar conflict.

Might be worth exploring it, the imposter in all of us can exploit diligence, professionalism and commitment and turn it into guilt.

Just something to consider.

i've just taken on a personal phone, having had a work phone for 16 years, lots of recent new rules and sign off on business use devices usage to contend with,

my workphone is now mail/calendar / security apps and teams et al

my personal phone just has the calendar linked, no distractions..

peaceful, although when i skip work to go to the gym or ride (when it stops raining so much)

i'll have to take my workphone :0)

I have one device for personal and work as well. I also turn off all notifications as default except Whatsapp but that is not used for work. I look at email when I want to look at email and in Outlook when away it is easy to only see personal emails.

When on holiday I do not look at anything to do with work. Nobody rings on my mobile now it is all through Teams so I don't have the hassle of pressing decline call and let them listen to my 'I am on holiday message' which is a recent bonus

Don't do work on your day off no matter how important it may seem, in three to four weeks nobody but you and your family will remember you worked that day.

OK, been there.  I'm taking a couple days to get the entire week out.  If it's safety critical, or genuinely time critical they can call , but no guarantee I can answer as I might be days from a PC.

But - I have a boss clever enough to understand that if they steal my holiday (it's happened) I'll get it back later, no discussion.  If you really have to take it, then you have to take it. and if the project is late, it's on them for bad management.

Managers are paid to manage. If they can't do that it's not your job to bail them out as a charitable deed.

In response to Razorrazoo above. I too work in a sales company, I am part of the sales process and I see this way of thinking a lot. I used to remind sales people regularly that nobody is going to die if our product does not reach someone when they are away. We now have a designated buddy system whereby another sales person will cover customer problems during holidays. Everyone needs to disconnect from work or we will end up in trouble

Don’t worry it soon wears off, if not try a pub that alway helps.

have a guess what your employer will do if you die right now?

Yep, replace you, that's what. Put work in a box and let them sort it.

A single switch would be nice, but is obviously not in the interests of Apple and it’s app writers

Android has Do Not Disturb, which is a single click, is there no Apple equivalent?

If you can not complete your work in work time then you have too much work and thats a manager problem not a you problem.   By continuing as you are you are letting management understaff

Contrary to belief on here WTD does apply to everyone and you cannot opt out of all parts of it.  Rest time is mandatory and cannot be opted out of in most circumstances

Yes, the guys on apple at my place can switch between a work profile and a personal one. You can switch off notifications in each.

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/returning-to-work-after-a-weeks-leave/

Android has Do Not Disturb, which is a single click, is there no Apple equivalent?

Yeah. And because Apple always rip off other people’s ideas, it’s catchily called “Do not disturb”.

FWIW, I’m a two-phoner because the only way I can switch off from work when on leave and weekends is to physically switch the device off. Otherwise I compulsively check and people ignore an out of office. Doesn’t stop me dreading going back and ruining whatever the last day off is that I have.

Only fifteen years till I can retire…

I no longer feel guilty not working when I'm in the office....

Your guilt is associated with your lack of obvious need for taking the time off for holiday (other than to lose it). So you need to do something MORE rewarding to make the two days more worthwhile and less guilt-inducing. Get the bike out!

Ignoring the prompting to go for a bike ride, never let your workplace be the judge of what you do on your time off. If you want time off to do nothing what so ever but sit in your paisley y-fronts drinking carling black label, that's up to you.

Ok, not sales or office here but do get work calls and emails at odd hours. Had just one phone for 15 years, partly cost, partly convenience.

After falling out with another member of staff (I don’t really have a manager, aside from the MD) I got my own phone.

It’s a great feeling to leave the work phone on silent after hours.

The chap that caused the issue has gone but I don’t see myself going back to one phone.

I have however cancelled holiday that I was just using up, to help with work pressure on the obvious agreement I could carry it over.
If not then overtime at very good rates.

Yeah. And because Apple always rip off other people’s ideas, it’s catchily called “Do not disturb”.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 You left off the /s! Android was originally a cheap knockoff of the Blackberry, until Jobs suddenly announced the iPhone with iOS.

At which point Google set about copying iOS as much as they could. ‘Do Not Disturb’ has been part of iOS since 2018 in iOS12, it was a standalone app before that. So six years as an integrated feature.

Wherever I’ve worked staff were given a set number days of annual leave which we were expected to use, if for whatever reason there were days left over, we had until usually the end of March to use the carryover or lose it, although some places allowed staff to take the money equivalent. Last place I worked staff were repeatedly told to take leave, as part of mental health care. Plus our shifts were 5 5 4 - 5 work days, 4 days off, 5 work days, then 5 days off, 4 work days 5 days off, rinse and repeat. We also had 25 days annual leave, plus a day off for your birthday, and a Wellbeing Day we could have any time we wanted. The working days were 12 hours, but no real stress involved.

It was one of the best jobs I’ve ever had. You could use four annual leave days and have three weeks off! What’s not to like. 😁

I have all notification turned off and my phone is always on silent.

Me too. If anyone really needs to contact me they'll leave a voice mail. That hardly ever happens.

Mind you, I'm retired.

@MoreCashThanDash

I no longer feel guilty not working when I’m in the office

Maybe leave that off the new c.v? 😉

I was at a conference today and we were discussing this.  The topic of the specific question was "dealing with burnout."

There's lots of helpful suggestions here around muting phone notifications etc.  Here's a radical suggestion: switch it off.  Realistically, who's actually likely to call you for personal reasons when you're in the middle of an oil change?

As far as work goes, the uncomfortable truth is that people aren't as important as they think they are.  If there is insufficient staff to provide cover for legally mandated annual leave then that is a Them problem.  What happens if you're suddenly hospitalised, or worse?  You'd be out of the door in a heartbeat if it suited the business (ask me how I know).

At which point Google set about copying iOS as much as they could. ‘Do Not Disturb’ has been part of iOS since 2018 in iOS12, it was a standalone app before that. So six years as an integrated feature.

Just three short years after Android. 😁

I have a work mobile that I have to remember to charge then turn on every six months to put a code in when laptop password changes. All calls are through laptop. Switch it off at 5pm then don’t think about work until whenever it is the next time I am in.

The stuff that needs done when I’m away will get done eventually when I’m back.

I’m aware that all I’m doing is turning next Tuesday into an absolute shitter of a day when I try and catch up and undo all the cockups

This is the one I struggle with anytime I have a week off. Not disastrous cockups but the need to put things right to avoid snowballing problems and inefficiencies. I try and get on top and in front of things in the week before (so ends up being a tiring week), and expect on my return to have a bit of a shitty week or two.

Is there some sort of misconception here that works emails need a response immediately?

Even if I know someone is on leave, I'm not not going to stop sending emails to them and I'm not expecting any response until at least a day after they return to work.

I'm certainly not gonna compose an email and leave it sitting in my draft folder until they return to work then (hopefully) remember to press the send button...

And beside, the email may be sent to multiple people anyway so who gives a toss that one of those people may be on holiday.

I just ignore my work email and Teams at weekends or when I'm off. It's not difficult but I'm not in a safety/security/financially critical industry.

I work a rota but when i get home i forget the place exists until I'm almost ready to go back again. I dont mind if some of the lads are stuck with something and i get a quick message as it'll probably be 5 minutes at most but if i was on a 9-5 Monday to Friday and they started this the phone would be switched off.

I’m certainly not gonna compose an email and leave it sitting in my draft folder until they return to work then (hopefully) remember to press the send button…

Outlook prompts to fit in with an out of office autoreply nowadays.

Funny how different people approach this though. I never select that option when sending emails as I hate the idea of sitting down in my first day back to a stream of incoming mail more than the idea of a static backlog.

I've always went on the assumption that if they can survive when I'm off sick unexpectedly then they can survive when I take some leave.

I'm a person who very much values life outside work more than life in work though.

Unless you work in a small independent firm with a history of loyalty and long standing staff then you really need to understand how replaceable you are. Due to the area I work in there is always a constant flow of staff and as much as some people would like to think they are essential, people rarely miss them for long.

The wheel keeps turning. If it doesn't then your company has deeper issues.

Regarding phones, if you're an Android user you can set up a 'work profile'.  This creates a separate set of apps that are on a different page in your apps drawer.  You configure these apps for work and then you can turn off the work profile with a button press, or on a schedule.  Two phones in one.

Regarding work itself - stopping work at 5pm is not necessarily as simple as it sounds.  I can only work in a job where I care about the work and the outcomes.  If I didn't care, or I stopped myself from caring, then every day would be hell.  Consequently, I can't stop caring at 5pm and start again at 9am the next morning.  The only work satisfaction I get is when a customer needs me and I help them. If I didn't help them then I would not have any job satisfaction.

Of course I need vacation and I plan for it but sometimes it doesn't work out quite that way. Last week I booked yesterday, today and Tuesday off, but yeseterday we still had some unanswered questions that I needed to work on before everyone else could continue. So I did a chunk of work yesterday because it was short notice, and the people I'm working with, who I know well and have a good relationship with needed me to look at some things - and I did, and I enjoyed it because it satisfied me and we all made progress. I will probably take a good chunk of Wednesday off unofficially.

Caring about what you do at work isn't a negative; but it has to be because you want to do a good job, not because everyone's piling pressure on you.