[Closed] Feeling burnt out, what to do?

Get a different job or learn to switch off from work. Sounds like your job stress is making you ill and you need to do something about it before you really do crash and burn...

I'm completely with you, vickypea, so at least you have a sympathiser!

Seriously, though, returning from North America - especially after a short time - can take weeks to recover from. Last year, after a week in Ontario, I spontaneously fell asleep at my desk twice over the course of a couple of weeks, and stayed tired for at least a month.

It seems that I affected by autumn SAD, I have a decent diet, and don't drink much. We probably ride a similar amount as well - although other than commuting, I haven't been out much recently. One of the reasons is precisely because I feel like you describe. Only sertraline is keeping me from taking a really hard fall.

I would suggest that you really take it easy for a few weeks, and not have too many expectations for yourself - other than to get through a few box sets. Treat it like recovery time, and after awhile, you will be itching to get back in the saddle, literally and figuratively.

Have you tried mindfulness, or any other sort of meditation. That's one technique to separate yourself from your thoughts, but might not work for everyone.

If you need a couple of days off work, take them. They’ll manage without you for a couple of days.

You can take up to a week off sick self certificated without needing a doctor’s note.

Or use holiday if you have any left and you’re worried about “taking a sickie”

I'm rather fortunate in that I've never experienced anxiety and stress, and all I get is an annual melancholy for a few days when I realise that summer's gone. And as robust characters, Mrs BigJohn & I have always scoffed at crap and snake oil fads.

But I declare myself to be very impressed by the anecdotes of the benefits of mindfulness given by sensible people like MPs.

Take some time off. Work can be important but happiness is more importanter

My annual (for the last ~24 years) SAD is hitting me for six currently, not helped by having a head cold that has appeared to go and then come back over the last almost four weeks now. Sometimes I feel like there is a light chest infection going on, so I've cut my training and general rides right back to ~70 miles per week instead of ~130 over this time period.

And because of less ride time, I'm outdoors less, so SAD symptoms get worse. 😕

Maybe try doing "recovery ride" cycles, that won't test your legs or heart too much?

Here's one of mine from last week, taking it very steady in easy gears compared to a training ride, that just kept my October climbing challenge ticking over. https://www.strava.com/activities/1223798335

Demand a couple of days holiday ..explain why if need be .
Go to see your doc and ask if a vitamin b12 injection will help your condition..
Sleep for 2 days !

I'd listen to your counsellor and try and get some rest, go to your GP to discuss the anxiety and inform your work about how you are feeling and about setting priorities so you are not overwhelmed.

Give up the alcohol completely and look at your diet. You say it's healthy but can you get more vegetables in there? I find that after a week on a diet of mostly vegetables and lean protien I feel great and have noticably more energy. Start going to bed early, force youself if you have to and maybe do something relaxing before hand such as a steam/sauna/hot bath.

I’m reading this whilst sat in front of a light box. Have s cold sore, spots and feel generally run down. This time of year is crap. I’ve been working a lot and trying to get the house ready for the new Funk arriving.

Taken today and tomorrow off work and already feel better for it. Sometimes you just need time to decompress.

Not sure if this will work, but no harm to try. I find Vitamin B supplements massively improve my mood and feelings when I feel like you describe. But more than anything take comfort in the fact that your feelings are far from uncommon.

Learn to say no, even to yourself. Prioritise, going as far as to let people know what they're asking looks low priority and how important is it really. In business I used deal with urgent stuff straight away, stuff that would have to get dealt with sometime when I had time and then I had a big box. Anything that might eventually go away was thrown in it. It was most satisfying going through that box now and then as many problems had solved themselves, ceased to be problems or people had forgotten/lost interest/given up on me.

Look back at what you've done in the last year. How much of it would have caused a headache if not done?

Get a dog.
Take it for a long walk and tell it all your worries.
It'll listen intently, won't judge and will respond with unconditional and total love.

Who wouldn't feel better after that?

bet you've got a smart phone and all your work emails appear on it .
Switch it off and read a book . Stuff them and their instant response emails. If its so important pick up the phone and speak to an actual person in real time , not send something that might or might not get to its intended reciepient as soon as send is pressed.
I got assisinated in a meeting this week , just about kept a lid on it as Im 2 weeks away from the 2 year point.

Was exactly where you are at end of July

Made my employers give me 5 weeks off. Did a mix of time with the kids (work phone switched off and in a drawer), a simple week of riding my bike on the Isle of Man and a few days of gluttony in the states. Mostly though just slept, relaxed, did a bit of moderate exercise.

Felt so much better since.

I'm juggling several things at work and seem to be surrounded by people demanding instant responses to their emails.

Can you manage people's expectations on this point?

Either telling people you'll get to them later or letting them work it out themselves?

I was so anxious about work last month that I barely slept for 3 weeks.

Sounds like you've already seen your GP, but I feel they'd probably advise taking a little time off work if you told them this.

Out of interest - are you being expected to do a full-time job in part-time hours?

If you don't want to go full mindfulness here are some good tips:

Use the first hour of your day at work to accomplish something. Check emails after as they'll pull you in all sorts of unfocused directions.

Set aside certain times to check and respond to emails. It's unacceptable to expect instant responses and don't get drawn in by at. They can phone if urgent.

My sister has a brilliant system called the Heather Small board (think M People greatest hits). Every day she writes what she achieved, even small stuff. It's amazing even when you've had a "bad day" and the knob goblins at work are still after you how much you did do. It helps build a bit of self belief.

I’d advocate not reducing your work load but do try to maximise your time off by doing something totally different than you would normally do.
So, no riding bikes, no golf, no over eating, no more drink than you’d normally drink.. you get the idea..

Now, do something like painting, poetry, sculpture, pottery, bronze casting, stained glass making.. or using your time for volunteering in galleries or outdoor centres, or taking old folks or disabled to Bird sanctuary’s..

It’s a change of focus I’m advocating, not a reduction in workload because the mind needs to be active and yet have consistent focus (work) and the other stuff I’ve mentioned are the distraction and learning and cooperation factors that could help.

All the best.

Right there with you - I am really struggling at the moment. Not so much work related, although that is partially it (more the lost interest/financially insecure/no chance of ever retiring thing though), more the amount of crap that has gone down in my own life over the last few years that has really taken it's toll.

I used to have legendary levels of patience - now I am on a very short fuse. I have no energy or enthusiasm, I just don't *do* anything anymore - kinda like a shell of a human being rather than a proper functioning person. Semi robotic even!

I have absolutely no advice to give at the moment as I really don't know where to start myself. People have suggested counselling, but I don't really do that kind of thing and don't see how a stranger would make it any easier. So long as I keep of suicide watch I think I am doing pretty well!

What I need to do is find myself again. But I am kinda lost.

Set permanent autoreply that you check emails twice a day AND STICK TO THAT.

Prioritise your to do list based on your needs not others'.

Be selfish.

Switch off phone and email the second you finish work. Work mobile comms are a tool for YOU to do YOUR job when away from your desk, not a 24/7 callout lifeline for others.

Basically reclaim control.

Yes, I've been there so I'm speaking from experience here.

Good luck.

Wow, thanks for all these replies and suggestions! I've just sat here and read through them all properly.
All good suggestions. For the past 18 months I've actually been really strict about not working long hours (with very few exceptions) and I never check emails outside of office hours. I also make sure I get fresh air and a walk at lunchtime or at least a decent coffee break with a friend every day. I find mindfulness quite good but I must admit that I let it lapse and should pick it up again.

i normally "treat" my anxiety by riding my bike really hard but that's not good when I'm not sleeping.
I love drawing and painting so I think I'll treat myself to doing some of that over the weekend.

I have no words of wisdom, only posting to let you know your not alone.

Get signed off work right now - and not a couple of days but at least a fortnight. Once you have your mind back on an even keel then reassess your life. If work is making you ill its work that is the problem.

I reached a point not as bad as this but getting that way a couple of years ago. I didn't go off sick I got transferred to a post much more suitable to me. It was like a huge weight went and only then did I realise just how much I was struggling.

work to live - don't live to work

I appreciate the jet lag but are you able to do any other type of exercise? I find it’s a bit of an adrenaline dump. I haven’t been riding much recently so I’ve started running and I feel amazing!

And - take some time off before it’s too late.

Capt. Kronos

counselling can and often is very helpful. Been on both sides of it. What you describe is exactly the sort of thing counselling can sort out

If your leg was broken you would seek expert help - why not do so when your head is broken?

Everyone is different, but I've found I have to treat training rides like caffeine, doing much of either after ~1700 plays havoc with me getting to sleep that night!

No bright lights (especially not a light box)after ~1800; use "twighlight" app on tablet to web browse with blue light reduction in evenings which helps SAD sufferers start to wind down (I'm not a book reader, non-smart activity would be far better for me); try and be in bed winding down by 2130 at the latest; try (but not always successful in the autumn/winter) to get up at the same time regardless of whether it's a work or non-work day.

Vickypea... Thought you might find this useful....

https://medium.com/@OlarkLiveChat/its-2017-and-mental-health-is-still-an-issue-in-the-workplace-61efbef092f

As the story goes... there is no difference between time off from work for a broken leg and time off work for a broken mind.

I've been in the same situation and didn't take proper action, which was stupid. The last time it got really bad 'luckily' I was made redundant and several months later felt a bit more myself. My current job isn't remotely stressful but knowing I have to find another soon is causing the same sleep problems to come back, probably not helped by the sudden dark days, I'm totally exhausted by the time i get home from work.

andyrm - Member
Switch off phone and email the second you finish work. Work mobile comms are a tool for YOU to do YOUR job when away from your desk, not a 24/7 callout lifeline for others.

😯 I guess you've never worked in a food manufacturing environment its 24/7/365

I've spent many holidays talking people through stuff when its gone wrong.

NOpe mr Overshoot - thats nothing to do with the type of job - thats poor management and you allowing yourself to be used. Work your contracted hours and no more.

NOpe mr Overshoot - thats nothing to do with the type of job - thats poor management and you allowing yourself to be used.

^^this.

I guess you've never worked in a food manufacturing environment its 24/7/365

I've spent many holidays talking people through stuff when its gone wrong.

Nope but I've worked in VC backed tech startups and media, both of which are 24/7 if people allow it, and resultingly both sectors have HUGE amounts of burnout, staff attrition and mental health problems. It's all about regaining control, accepting you can't do everything and prioritising the workload to suit your needs.

Loving the Heather Small board.

It seems that an awful lot of people are starting to crack around the edges at the moment with the pace of modern life. It seems we've managed to now fill every available time slot with always on comms so there is little space left just to be 🙁

Hope you find a solution that leaves you feeling good about yourself and back in control

Been there myself very recently. Moved from driving lorries to routing them every day. I was responsible for routing and dealing with 50+ drivers pretty much on my own every day. Had countless chats with the boss to try and rectify the situation.

The guy I worked with did very little to assist me and sometime went out his way to be awkward. Has numerous fallouts with drivers and was verbally abused on a weekly basis.. im not one to sit back and be walked over so made sure I put my point across.. but nobody should be verbally abused and personally insulted at work.

Added to that the arrival of our little girl after a difficultly labour I was totally exhausted. I found myself sitting at my desk and my hands shaking and stomach churning, couldn't switch off or sleep, had no energy to do any exercise and lost interest in everything, had splitting headaches and felt in a bad place.

Came to a head one day and I called the doctor to make an appointment. He wanted to see me that day. When I got there I told him how I was feeling, he reassured me that I wasn't depressed or going mental but that I was suffering sever stress, anxiety and I was burnt out and heading for a breakdown. He signed me off for 2 weeks there and then. Took the line back to work and handed it in.. the relief I felt was unbelievable. I was like a new man the next day. Spent some quality time with my wife and baby girl, rode my motorbike and road bike and just pottered about the doors.

Had a chat on the phone with my boss who basically blamed it all on me... the day before I was due to go back to see the doctor and my boss about returning to work I was feeling all uptight and nervous again. When I spoke to the doctor he said he knew I wouldn't be ready to go back to work after 2 weeks as I was in a bad way when he saw me originally. He signed me off again.

I had another week off then went in to see my boss, end result was I said I wasn't prepared to come back Into the office and that I wanted back on the road.

I was treated like shit for a few weeks as a form of punishment but I was happy to be back on the road so knew it would improve.. which it has massively.

End result, I spent months questioning my own mental health, feeling like I was depressed, wondering if I should just up sticks and disappear, I thought I was making it all up and it was all in my head. I always used to think most people with "mental health issues" were making it up.. particularly those suffering stress or anxiety.

Having been there recently I can completely understand the consequences of doing nothing, get some time off work and speak to somebody about how your feeling. Don't be afraid to ask for help or admit when your having a bad day. It does get better but you have to make the first step and speak to your GP, have a break from work and if needed move on from your current position.

Apologies for the long post, first time I have written down my experience, that's the short version aswell!!

I remember a few months ago I started a topic asking for help on here.. then promptly deleted it as I felt stupid for posting.. so well done for posting your feelings and state of mind. Takes courage by the bucket load. Took me another 2 months to admit I had an issue.

Hope it all works out for you.

Nobodyofthegoat wrote

My annual (for the last ~24 years) SAD is hitting me for six currently, not helped by having a head cold that has appeared to go and then come back over the last almost four weeks now. Sometimes I feel like there is a light chest infection going on, so I've cut my training and general rides right back

You're me and I claim my five pounds. My head cold has been going on for weeks now, but I don't think it's being helped by my state of mind, which in turn has not been helped by turning 50.

Roll on Spring.

Vickypea, when you posted last winter about how you were feeling, it seemed to me from some of the things that you said, that you are a very driven person who seeks to keep busy all the time, achieve goals and generally 'do' things.

i normally "treat" my anxiety by riding my bike really hard but that's not good when I'm not sleeping.
I love drawing and painting so I think I'll treat myself to doing some of that over the weekend.

Drawing and painting sound good, but what about also spending some time just doing nothing - no activity or pastime, just chill out and do nothing for a morning, afternoon or even the whole day/weekend. Go to a nice coffee shop for a couple of hours and sit by the window and watch the world go by.

it seemed to me from some of the things that you said, that you are a very driven person who seeks to keep busy all the time, achieve goals and generally 'do' thing

Slowster, that's exactly what my counsellor said yesterday. We talked about not giving 100% all the time because that leads to exhaustion. I agree and need to slow down, it's just that I feel so bloody awful now that I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier

tjagain - Member

NOpe mr Overshoot - thats nothing to do with the type of job - thats poor management and you allowing yourself to be used. Work your contracted hours and no more.

I'll say it again you haven't worked in food manufacturing then, contracted hours don't exist as such & I am management and right up to top line director will often end up working all hours.
I have a team of engineers that often need to call me day or night for tech support and if they cant sort it I am the person that has to sort it out & if I don't then lots of people are potentially looking at finding another job as we will be closed.

Oh and Andy our isn't 24/7 if we allow it it is 24/7 with profit margins in the 2% bracket so any hold up means a loss, I really don't think many people understand the effect our major multiples have had on whole swathes of industry!

MrOvershoot you remind me of one of my uncles twenty odd years ago.
His work simply wouldn't manage without him, a big housebuilding firm which required him to be at their beck and call 24/7.

After he had some enforced time off due to several heart attacks, the company went bust.
Only joking, someone stepped in to replace him and they carried on building houses as if he had never existed.

I'm self employed so find it hard to step back and say no, but it's getting easier. Life carries on, the world keeps spinning, and I keep making a living.

Nope mr Overshoot - no one is that indispensable. You are suffering from presenteeism and you are allowing your company to completely take the micky - and apart from anything else its a breach of the working time directive thus illegal. Its also counterproductive as an emplyee - which is what you are that doesn't get sufficient rest is less productive than one who does.

What you have here is poor management.

You are talking to someone who has had real 24/7 responsibility for peoples lives but I didn't get called on my days off or holidays

Tell your boss how you're feeling and get a few days or week off. Go ride your bike.

Can be just that simple to do a 'reset'.

I'm doing a post grad at uni just now. Was feeling overwhelmed - it's a scientific subject and the last time I did science was high school 20 years ago. So I have to study a lot - at 5am before uni, when I get home and at weekends.
I was feeling overwhelmed.
Well, I got ahead of my studying and on Tuesday we didn't have any lectures or labs so I took the day off. Got up late, turned phone off. Did some chores I'd let slide, took a walk round town, went to some bike shops and deli's, read a book in the pub with one really nice beer (a plum sour mmmm) and made a nice dinner for my girlfriend and I. Had a bath together then muchos sex.

Total reset! Felt much better and still do.

Some sound advice posted by people here. Take some time off, ride bicycle, borrow a dog and when back at work be brutal regarding answering emails. A cock up/bad planning on their part does not constitute a requirement for an emergency response on your part. Emails and work calls should stop at clocking off time.

I agree with TJ, working for a 24/7 organisation, with staff and travelling public safety at stake, overwork/stress has killed people. We had a young guy a few weeks ago end it all on a level Xing. Nobody at work knew he was suffering. If it's getting too much, step back. Your health and mental well being is more important than the job, and a stressed/tired worker is a hazard to themselves and colleagues.

I've had two minor road accidents in the past trying to do too much for too long. I now recognise the symptoms and force myself to calm down.

I'm in existing rather than living mode at the moment and have similar feelings etc. to the OP and others in this thread. I'm pretty much burnt out and wondering each day if it will be the one I finally snap on, hasn't happened yet though thankfully... I do need to take some time off (have had 6 days off this year, 20 days left I can take but as no one really does my job when I'm off it's the thought of coming back to an even bigger backlog of work that puts me off). At the same time I know they can manage without me, I just don't like leaving things undone and potentially causing others issues as a result.
Added to that due to security clearance I have to declare it even if I just visit a GP regarding mental health issues which combined with a general "I don't want to bother others with my problems" attitude and I end up doing nothing about it.
I think I'll give the B vitamins thing a go though (yes I know in reality I can't fix it with a pill but hey I'm still largely in denial...), my diet is crap but I'm not a fan of fruit or vegetables so that might be harder to address.

I'm worried that I've burnt myself out recently. I have a full time job which is stressful (but generally not long hours), and I was so anxious about work last month that I barely slept for 3 weeks.

Not good at all!

I was like this 7 years ago and ended up having a nervous breakdown, walking out of my job and ending up a gibbering wreck for a few months. The cure was SSRIs. The proper cure would have been to have quit my job a lot sooner, but that's easier said than done.

If a job is making you loose sleep for days on end, you need to find another job......

Capt. Kronos » I don't really do that kind of thing and don't see how a stranger would make it any easier. So long as I keep of suicide watch I think I am doing pretty well!

I used to feel that way many years ago and it cost me. With the right counsellor it's easier than you think, not to mention our ability to evade certain aspects of self that can remain hidden through familiarity, denial etc.

As for the suicide thing - sometimes the first sign is an attempt. Depending on how determined you are that could be that.

Try to talk with someone.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I cannot resist commenting on the pressures to which Mr Overshoot has referred in his industry, and tjagain's assertion that this is poor management, no one is indispensible, and that "You are talking to someone who has had real 24/7 responsibility for peoples lives but I didn't get called on my days off or holidays":

On the face of it it seems obvious that NHS front line work etc. will be potentially far more critical/high stress and food manufacturing is 'trivial' compared with 'real 24/7 responsibility for peoples lives', but that is a rather dismissive attitude and reflects not only a lack of awareness of what life can be like for others (true of all of us and quite normal) but also a failure to try to imagine how things might be different for others (which is regrettable).

The NHS is a public sector funded organisation. It is so essential that in general its continuing existence (and the jobs of the people who work in it) is [i]relatively[/i] well assured. When medical decisions are made, I believe that there are clear established guidelines, rules and protocols. So although someone may have responsibility for a person's life, they almost invariably will know what they must do in a given set of circumstances.

Food manufacturing is probably a good example of how different the private sector can be. If you are the senior engineer for a food factory and something goes seriously wrong, there may be no established fix and no one else's expertise you can call on. Commercial/financial pressures in the sector can be extremely high, with no room for frequent breakdowns or shutdowns, which would either start causing the factory to be loss making, or will simply prompt the supermarket customer to go elsewhere.

Get it wrong in the NHS, and it's unlikely that the hospital would be closed and everyone lose their job. Get it wrong in the food industry, and factory closures with loss of jobs can and do happen. Moreover the nature of problems that someone in Mr Overshoot's position can face can vary immensely (akin to patients with completely new and unrecognisable illnesses with no established treatment protocol turning up every month). You don't even have to make a mistake for a food factory to close and everyone to lose their job - just bad luck or circumstances can be enough. Food used to cost something like a third of the average household income, and it's now much much less. The commercial and operational pressures to deliver food so cheaply are immense, and very competitive prices for the food we buy come at a cost to the people who work in the industry, both in terms of pressures and wages. That means there is often simply not enough money for the likes of Mr Overshoot to have a large enough team working for him so skilled, competent and reliable that he can confidently switch his phone off for two weeks while on holiday.

Bloody hell Slowster those last 2 paragraphs sum it up exactly!
We are often running with such little margin for error in stock that a plant downtime of 24hrs would probably mean the loss of a couple of major customers which would in turn mean closure unless those customers could be replaced, very unlikely in today’s market.
Your point about no one else to turn to is very true, I was recently asked to compile a list of equipment that was no longer supported and it even shocked me to the point where I was informed by one company that I am now the only person in the world who knows how to fully set up & program the coms system our weighers use as it was last produced in the 80’s.
I have had 3 colleagues retire early this year and all have said they just didn’t realise how much stress they/we were under until they stopped, every one of them said it’s so nice to go to sleep and not wake up in the small hours going over problems in your head.
I don’t disagree with anyone saying it seems like poor management but with the resources/budgets we have salaried staff are the only way we keep going overtime payment isn’t an option.

Given your understanding of it I guess you are working in a similar position

Any ideas?

Sleep more. Life is much easier if you get 7/8 hours every night.

Also don't think about work when you aren't there, flick the off switch as soon as you leave the office, don't turn it on till you walk back through the door.

Given your OP, it seems obvious you worry too much about work, stop that. And make sure you get the required sleep.

Also go to your doctors and get signed off with stress for a month if you can't sort this on your own/work aren't willing to help. Reset yourself. Work is exactly that, work, it's not your life.

Plus you also need to learn to train your bosses expectations! 😆

It wasn't in the NHS it was private sector and I had full 24 / 7 legal responsibility for the running of the home ie if anything happened at any time I would be called to account not just by my bosses but also the regulatory body and the courts. Get it wrong and I would be answereable in the criminal court. a business with a 2 million pound turnover.

However I had a good management structure in place thus was never called out. Once I had to stay in the building for 24 hours tho as there wasn't cover due to sickness. If I had not done this I would have been subject to professional and possibly criminal sanctions.

Working as Mr Overshoot does is only due to poor management. Its also illegal.

Edit: He is allowing his bosses to take the micky and also to break the law. What is needed is a proper " on call" system

what would happen if you were drunk? Out of phone range? Driving a car? In hospital?

Who are they going to call? Ghostbusters ?
If there is no - one else that is in any way available to fix something that's bust then there is no option.
All sit around and wait 14hrs for Fred at the plant manufacturers head office to turn up and see if he can remember doing a plant install in 1991 , but he is now 60 and his memory is failing so he's no good.

So you sit around as there is no-one else, product goes to waste, production ceases and stressed middle and upper management have a hissy fit when they find out.

Unfortunate reality in many workplaces , big and small.

tjagain - Member

Working as Mr Overshoot does is only due to poor management. Its also illegal.

Edit: He is allowing his bosses to take the micky and also to break the law. What is needed is a proper " on call" system

what would happen if you were drunk? Out of phone range? Driving a car? In hospital?

I'm not sure what law is being broken under the W-T-R?

I have 5 engineers who are on a very well run call out rota, but there are some areas they don't have the full skill set to sort every problem & as Slowster alluded to some things are total one off never seen before problems.
Drunk, yep been there got a taxi in (probably not legal)
Out of phone range, has happened but only for a couple of hours.
Driving, have often given tech advice while driving, pulled into an Aldi car park while on holiday and spent an hour talking someone through reprogramming a Bable box.
In Hospital, have only ever been in as a day case, did get picked up by my boss following a double hernia op, 2 weeks later they had to come and take me to work to re code the mill job listing.
This is pretty common amongst my fellow engineering managers throughout the industry, I’m not saying it’s a healthy situation but that’s the reality of manufacturing in the UK.

[s]Being on call 24/7/65 would not be allowed.[/s]

thought I'd better check 🙂 on call at home is not treated the same as on call at work/ sleepover. So its probably not a breach except a technical one over rest periods because the working time clock would stop and start with the phone call and you must have 11 hours off.

I think there would be an issue with hols - technically you are not getting your proper holiday entitlement because of the on call. Bet you work over 48 hrs as well 😉

Not as clear cut as I thought every day is a school day

A genuine question for Mr Overshoot - What would your employer do if you got hit by a bus?

Your employer is seemingly running a business supporting lots of people based on the critical input of a single individual. In the event that you are suddenly no longer available , does their business collapse?

This seems like monumentally bad planning if that's the case.

I sincerely hope that you are leveraging this criticality to your full advantage to achieve suitably "critical" recompense.

tjagain, I appreciate it may be difficult to understand what it may be like working in a role and sector like Mr Overshoot's (I had to have it spelt out to me very bluntly by people like Mr Overshoot).

Perhaps an analogy that might help is farming. The problems that dairy farmers have had with extremely tight margins (again, all part of the same bigger picture that affects food manufacturers, with supermarkets using their dominant bargaining power to force down the prices they pay, so that all of us in turn can pay less for our food and drink) - even to the extent of being paid less than the cost of production of their milk - have been in the news for some years. Those farmers are in a similar situation to Mr Overshoot's company, and whilst they may be self-employed, many of them will also have employees whose livelihoods may also disappear if the farm goes under. Unsurprisingly, farming is a high stress industry, with high numbers of suicides. Commercial pressures and competition mean that the farmers cannot have the level of resources that would allow them to manage an organisation where they could switch the phone off at 5.00pm. They are always on call, and that extends right through the food and drink industry supply chain at senior management level.

Imagine you have a piece of specialist medical equipment in a hospital that is absolutely essential to the hospital, but it is no longer manufactured, the manufacturer no longer exists to provide spares and support, and only you know how to fix it. That would never happen in a hospital because the money would be found to replace the equipment and/or train extra staff to be able to fix it. In the private sector, the cost of replacing such legacy equipment with a new machine may be the tipping point between a factory staying open or it being closed and production being transferred to another factory in the group, or a competitor taking the business off you.

We are talking about cost savings and losses which would account for a fraction of a penny of the cost of a litre of milk, a ready-meal or a supermarket sandwich, but which can make or break a factory when you are talking about millions of units output. For many of these companies, a £2M difference in turnover is negligible - their turnovers are in the order of billions.

I know some people thrive on pressure but MrOvershoot's job sounds like my worst ****ing nightmare 😯 I hope you're VERY well paid & have a nice early retirement plan in place 🙂

Good luck! I've not really got anything to add thats not already been covered. Its hard to deal with though and make sure you give yourself more time than you think you need.

I took a rather extreme approach to burn out a little over 3 years ago, jacked in the job and moved to Spain. Definatly one of my better decisions but it might not be for everyone 😉

don't see how a stranger would make it any easier.

don't think of a therapist as a stranger but as an expert. if you have a problem with the car - get a mechanic; it's the same deal.

To answer a few of the questions:

TJ, you’re probably right that at some time or other I have been in breach of W-T-R but there is probably some get out clause where I was deemed to be in exceptional circumstances?

Perchy, I have sort of raised this question and the honest answer is they would be in deep shite, to be fair we have a new operations director who is trying to address these issues but getting money out of our US owners is a struggle as compared to their plants ours are Hi Tech but it’s the old Hi Tech that is problem.

Zilog6128, I don’t know about thriving on pressure but after 22 years in this job I guess I’ve got used to it, that’s not to say I like it and last year I was seriously on the verge of saying “**ck it I’m off” as it had got to be like my worst **** nightmare . Pay wise it’s OK and I’m not planning on doing this job for many more years, not retiring but scaling down to a 9-5 type job.

don't see how a stranger would make it any easier

I've been seeing a psychologist for the last few weeks, it's been brilliant, much more effective than I could ever have imagined.

OK.... I've had enough. Time to stop this "my job is worse than your job" rubbish.

Time for some ACTUAL ideas rather than blah, blah, blah blah....

I've just finished some excellent Mental Health Training about 30 minutes ago.....

The outcome?.....

2... Things....

Number 1....."Early Help For Mental Health." http://eh4mh.co.uk/

Aimed at 11-18 year olds but the "10 a day" ways of balancing your mental health are great for people of any age... They are:

1.. Talk about your feeling.
2.. Do something you enjoy and are good at.
3.. Keep yourself hydrated.
4.. Eat well.
5.. Keep an active mind and body.
6.. Take a break.
7.. Stay connected to those you care about.
8.. Ask for help.
9.. Be proud of your very being.
10. Actively care for others.

and Number 2.... "Kooth" online Counselling https://kooth.com/

and for the record..... MrOvershoot... you're sailing very close to "what have you got to be depressed about.... you don't know how easy you have it..... i'll show you depressed.."

Vickypea.....Things WILL change....it DOES get better.

Absolutely spot on Simon. I'm a teacher and there is a lot of 'I work harder/ I am more depressed than you' going on. Does nobody any good. Take your bike for long, slow rides and turn off the Strava/ Garmin for once...

Have you ever considered trying melatonin to help you get to sleep or sleep better?

There are two types; regular and time released. In a nutshell, regular helps you to fall asleep while time released helps you stay asleep.

Any archtitects on the thread? While I was at uni I had friends across medicine/engineering/astrophysics/art/humanities - basically every department there was - and without fail the architecture students ALWAYS argued their courses were the most stressful and they had the most work 😀

Finbar.... STOP it.... this isn't about who has it worse.

It's about finding ways to cope.

Mr Overshoot's comments were in response to the suggestion

Switch off phone and email the second you finish work. Work mobile comms are a tool for YOU to do YOUR job when away from your desk, not a 24/7 callout lifeline for others.

He was merely noting that for some jobs and some sectors, you simply cannot do that, and being available 24/365 goes with the territory, and I was merely confirming that this is not necessarily symptomatic of poor management and poor organisation.

As to there always being someone worse off, well yes of course there is. Ultimately, it is as much about the individual and how they respond to the stresses of their job and their life generally. We are all different and have our own ways of coping. Someone working in a library may get more stressed than another person working in the most high pressure field imaginable. Nevertheless, for what little it is worth, having seen engineers in various sectors, including heavy and high hazard industries, I would say that the food industry is particularly bad, because of the commercial and operational pressures, the rate of change in the industry (frequent new product lines) and it's much worse if you make a commodity product that your supermarket customer can just as easily buy from a competitor at very short notice (there are generally no long term contracts).

Getting back on track - with regard to the advice to vickypea to just get out and ride her bike, having read her previous posts, I think she tends to take the same all out, driven approach to riding as to other areas of her life, so she needs not to make her burn out worse by going out for 4 hours and physically battering herself on the bike.

Vickypea, I apologise for the thread going off at a tangent, but I would hope that you are chilling out, whether by sitting in a coffee shop, going out on your bike for a pootle (if you can force yourself to do just that and no more), or by practising being a lady of leisure and lying on a sofa eating chocolates and browsing through some winter sun holiday brochures.

you know what helps me

not really giving a shit

work - I have a contract, I do some work and I get paid. and then I forget about it. If you feel you have no options but to sell your soul to your employer then you are a slave and are perpetuating the problem

but most of all I listen to Punk Rock and drink good beer and ride bikes

I think I have said this before but Vicky, please please try taking Vit D3 supplements - so many people here in Norway take them and are recommended

Simon_Semtex - awesome words there dude.

Funnily enough the advice there is very similar to the mental health content being pushed out by NABS (the industry body for those of us in media and advertising), and it's bloody good advice.

One of the key things I always keep in mind is the "find your why" - why do you work? If it's to provide a lifestyle for your family (like most of us), then remember that lifestyle isn't just houses, cars and tangible things, it's being present, happy and immersed in your family's life. If you're stressed out, always on call, constantly on the edge of cracking under the pressure, you're not meeting that objective of providing "lifestyle" to your nearest and dearest, so make a change.

That doesn't mean drop out of a good corporate job and live on a commune - just regain control of your life.

OP, I was in the same situation and recognise the symptoms, also the company was going through a bad time.
I walked in one day in the summer and resigned, working somewhere else now, a bit less stressful. Prior to that had tried hard rides, nights out with friends, hitting the gym, all to no avail, as Monday morning still appeared.
Sometimes you have to tackle the root of the evil.

Simon_Semtex - Member

OK.... I've had enough. Time to stop this "my job is worse than your job" rubbish.

Time for some ACTUAL ideas rather than blah, blah, blah blah....

and for the record..... MrOvershoot... you're sailing very close to "what have you got to be depressed about.... you don't know how easy you have it..... i'll show you depressed.."

Not at all I know Vicky has struggled with things in the past just like me & have given what coping advice I can. Slowster explained my comments better than I can.

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/struggling-with-january-blues-or-something ]http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/struggling-with-january-blues-or-something[/url]

I think I have said this before but Vicky, please please try taking Vit D3 supplements - so many people here in Norway take them and are recommended

Thanks for the reminder. I DID take your advice and took vitamin D last winter/spring though not over the summer as I was getting lots of time outdoors and felt fine. Now the light levels are getting lower (in fact it's been grey and rainy here for most of the past 6 weeks) I will start it again. It's on my shopping list for tomorrow.

I assure you whatever it's like there, it's brighter and sunnier than here

but even though the weather will suck this weekend (4 C, 13m/s wind and raining) I'm off to the mountains tomorrow

just gotta be outside and in nature

Get it wrong in the NHS, and it's unlikely that the hospital would be closed and everyone lose their job. Get it wrong in the food industry, and factory closures with loss of jobs can and do happen.

Try being the safeguarding lead in a school or sixth-form college.

Lives and jobs in your hands, no support for the young people and you in the middle. Get it wrong and everything closes.

I recognise the driven element of your personality Vickypea - I’m also never satisfied. So consequently everything I do has to be done to the max and more and more must be fitted in.

Funnily enough riding a bike hard made it worse - because I didn’t get fit enough and fast enough quickly enough (something to do with working 60-100 hours a week).

Then, when I stopped worrying about whether I’d be fit enough to race, I enjoyed riding a bike again*.

Bikebuoy is right: do something that doesn’t have to be maxed out, something that can only be done slowly and isn’t completed in one sitting. Like slow cooking, you need some slow living where the act of doing - even lying on your back staring at the ceiling - is far more important than the achievement at true end of it.

*And after that, for unrelated reasons, a doctor told me to stop exercising pretty much altogether. I grieved for 2 years and have now come to terms with it: a walk or gentle swim is now something to be treasured rather than despatched in haste.

Not trying to add to the 'my job is harder than yours' argument, but i've been there with the Mr Overshoot and others and sympathise (in my case chemical manufacturing, which thankfully doesn't go tits up very often but when it does, it can go big time) But that's not the point, this is:

I know some people thrive on pressure but MrOvershoot's job sounds like my worst **** nightmare

when those times came it was absolutely amazing. Small teams, pulled together ad-hoc, we've got a major problem, we don't know how to solve it but you people are the smart ones - go! 16 hour days, weekends, calls all time of the day and night..... but you can only do it so long. And thankfully we had a direct boss and also a VP of manufacturing who knew it, and who'd both absolutely cover you to disappear when times were easier to play golf or ride bikes or whatever (US company, lot of golfers 😉 ) and in their words 'decompress'. Both were ex US military / Gulf War and both likened the stress levels to situations they'd seen and experienced there, without the absolute risk; you had to keep going, there's no 'raise your hand at any time if you want out' but afterwards they were absolutely buzzing, and would go out again if they could. Until the inevitable crash, because you can't keep doing it.

So to the point; you MUST have the downtime to allow you to be able to thrive on the pressure. Vickypea and others, you simply have to find something that allows you to forget work. For me it is bikes, the mix of physical effort but also filling your mind even if it's with nothing. But if bikes are no longer cutting the mustard, find something else.

To those who are getting by but don't want to bother the GP or think talking 'to a stranger' is not for them. Yep, done that too. Prided myself on it in fact. The broken leg analogy is OK, but you have to deal with a broken leg. I prefer it being like ignoring that minor rattle on the car, until you didn't notice it because it was normal.... then it became a bit of a knocking..... but the other rattle went away so i'm sure this will, and then you didn't notice it any more..... until it became a banging, and the engine suddenly siezed and now the car's worth scrap. All because you couldn't take your problem to a stranger who knows more about it than you.

Don't wait until you're stood on a railway platform thinking 'right, shut your eyes, two quick steps and this is over' because you were too ****ing proud to admit you didn't know what that minor rattle was or how to fix it.

Not read the whole thread as it went sort of OT in relation to you (Vicky) but, whilst I deffinately agree that you need to take a longer break to get away from it all for while, personally I'd not go to the docs just yet and get signed off on stress or similar.

What I'd do (and I've done it before), is that after a couple of days into your R+R holiday doing nothing, sit down and make a simple list.

Make sure your alone and not to be disturbed for a few hours, turn the TV off and you'll likely find you'll be absorbed into this process.

On one side put all the things you like about your job, on the other all the things you don't.

Then have a think about how you can change the don't likes to have a positive effect on your life. Be honest and realistic as you're not likely to change your life totally overnight, nor will you alone change company policy 'just' to make you better.

As important is to read the bits you like as this will help address the ones you don't and will also give you pointers on what to look for in any job change.

Sometimes even just writing the list can relieve pressure and lift your spirits. The worse thing it will do is make you realise that you are in the wrong job and it isn't good for you.

If you get into it, you can also include likes and dislikes in life not just your job. There might be a few crossovers which could help.

Sounds simple and almost daft as most people think they know what is right and wrong but my take is that it is sort of self counciling, as one can only address issues when you know they exist.

vickypea, I presume that your counselling sessions will be trying to identify the root cause(s) of why you feel extremely depressed at times. I suspect that your very driven approach to work, cycling and life of always giving it 100% may itself be a symptom, e.g. maybe focusing very hard on whatever you are doing at the time to shut out other thoughts, or possibly seeking to be the best at whatever you are doing to compensate for feelings of extreme dissatisfaction with some other aspect of life, or possibly seeking approval from some notional third party.

Unfortunately, that driven approach to everything doesn't work. By that I mean it may make you very good at your job, it may mean you live a very full life, and it may make you an extremely fit cyclist, but it doesn't fix the underlying cause of why you may be unhappy or depressed.

Instead, I suspect that after a period of going so hard and flat out, the resulting burn out (as you describe it) leaves you more vulnerable to being depressed, both because you are then physically, mentally and emotionally run down, but also because of the disappointment that going so hard for so long has still not/yet again failed to fix the underlying problem.

I have hesitated about posting the above comments (internet diagnosis, cod psychology and all that), and I may be completely wide of the mark and if so I can only apologise, but I have done so because I have two concerns, and I felt it necessary to post those comments to explain why.

Firstly, some of us have been suggesting you re-evaluate your life and consider making some very major changes. My concern is that unless you are confident that you know what the underlying root cause(s) are of why you feel and act as you do, then you are not yet in a position to make such a re-evaluation of your life, and it would be premature at such a stage to make a major life change like quitting your job. Before you start to even consider any major life changes, I would strongly recommend you discuss the subject with your counsellor first.

Secondly, from what you have written, it seems that you have a strong tendency to apply the same all out 100% approach to everything in your life, including those activities like cycling, which you use as an escape or a coping mechanism. My concern is that you need to be careful to preserve any coping activity as just that, and not allow yourself to start applying the same driven approach to the coping activity as the rest of your life, otherwise it will only be yet another thing to make you dissatisfied and unhappy.

Vicky your counsellor said about looking after yourself, I know its an often used phrase but its such an easy thing to say but so bloody hard to follow through without a clear plan.

As I have said on a previous thread of yours I found writing down the things that are troubling you or preventing you from relaxing, not so much for yourself but as an aide-memoire when you are asked what needs fixing as I used to kick myself after not remembering what I really wanted help with.

I'm not sure how much that is just me as I wouldn't say I'm a driven person like you appear to be more I just care that things are done correctly and I am utterly hopeless at saying "NO".
Probably due to my just wanting to help people, I blame my mother as she was exactly the same and often missed out on things while she helped others.

One thing in your favour is you have recognised some warning signs and are trying to work through it.

I wasn't ignoring the last 3 long and very thoughtful posts, they were much appreciated.

Firstly I'm not rushing off to do anything drastic just yet. I'm trying to put into practice some self care so I'm being what I would normally describe as "lazy" which includes taking a weekend off my bike. Several years ago I was diagnosed with what the dr described as "bipolar depression" (I don't have mania) so perhaps I have an inclination towards overdoing things and crashing. As I don't (or won't) tolerate antidepressants (I've tried all of them and a couple of mood stabilisers) I've been making the most of the counselling provided by the NHS. [In the past I tried 2 private counsellors who made things worse, so I'm sticking with the NHS 🙂 ]
I do now understand why I am the way I am, but 40-odd years of giving 100% is a hard habit to break and the lesson is just starting to sink in.

No advice I'm afraid from me I wish you all the best.
Sadly I'm on the same end of the poo stick my work is not important I don't save lives or look for cures for cancer but they heap the workload on and keep the stress high deliberately. I've just done a 6 day 12 hour stint and I'm done no energy watching crap TV and back tues and it will be relentless.
This afternoon I'm welding up an old exhaust just to stop thinking about work I even dream about work. I now know in my mind that I'm leaving at some point next year the money's good but having stress from work and the black dog just a extender lead away it's too much.

Good luck