[Closed] Fastest growing firewod

Stoner to the thread, Stoner to the thread.

According to Countryfile at the weekend, willow

Willow.

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Isn't willow more suitable for special boilers etc rather than just chucking on the fire/woodburner?

Willow is a horrible firewood, takes a long time to dry and spits and pops like buggery with very little heat. It is, however, OK as a source of woodchip for boilers as mentioned on Countryfile and it does grow very fast. If you are looking for a fast growing OKish firewood then Alder would be a good choice, especially if your ground is a bit damp. Probably the fastest growing proper hardwood and will burn when still pretty green. However, I would also be planting something like chestnut which will take a few more years to get to a size ready for coppicing, but is a far superior wood. Get enough of them in that you can rotate the coppice every 15 years and you will be set for life. The Alder will be ready in 5-10 so plant a load of that to get you going in the meantime.

Doesn't Stoner use Poplar?

Black poplar goes quick and can be pollarded very easily. It's not bad for burning. Alder is also very quick.

Ash is a slower option but a nice wood to cut, split and burn.

In my experience, the quicker it grows, the worse it burns and the nastier the trees... Poplar and Alder have huge leaves making an impenetrable canopy that makes the ground uninhabitable for anything else - I'm in the process of clearing all the alder from my wood and replacing with ash and birch for a lighter canopy. It is paying dividends for ferns, grasses etc and the hazels grow much better...

Alder is a bloody weed so maybe in the right place it would be one option. Ground is damp but has everything growing from Oak and Chestnut to Blackthorn and Scots pine as well. Plenty of Hazel.

I burn a lot of willow. I can't tell the difference between it and anything else.

Poplar is another fast growing option. A mix of poplar and willow is a good bet.

Our sanguiphilic northerner is quite right, I coppice poplar for my fuel.

Biomass production of willow for fuel [i]usually[/i] revolves around some serious acreage, and mechanical harvesting and processing (into chip or pellet).

Willow varieties are used because of their fast massing. Viminalis Salix, or a Q83 hyrbid are quite commonly used. I have planted both varieties in my orchard. Originally as an exercise in fuel production, but after I bought my coppice, I now just keep the willow as habitat and for the production of hedging heathering for a hedge-laying friend, and also for producing willow whips for other friends as and when they wish to plant up some screening or in one case some basket weaving stock.

Willow whips planted up exactly 4yrs ago
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And taken again this morning for you
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After 4yrs of careful cultivation, it's not what you call log fuel.

Im not quite so dismissive of Willow as a log fuel as welsh is. Before I had my coppice, I used to get wet willow from a farmer/wood fuel seller friend of mine for £20/tonne. If you have the space and the time, and a woodburner/furnace as I do, it's a pretty good fuel as it can be burned fast and hard. All those big old willows along field ditch lines need pollarding regularly enough. No one wants the material it produces. It's "free" fuel if you know the right people.

My coppice on the other hand used was a standard plantation of poplar.
Here it is prior to clear-felling in 1999.
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Here it is 2006 as it regens
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And this is 2012, my first harvest year of 1/10 of the 3.5acre plot
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Poplar can be coppiced quite readily on a 7-10yr cycle. From each stump/stool it will produce 2-5 new growths which can mass to anything from 4" to 9" in diameter over that time.

I like it as a fuel wood because it grows straight so is easy to move and process. Splits v v easily, and can be burnt hard and fast to maintain a healthy flue gas temp, and heat a furnace tank quickly with little supervision. I use it in the wood burners too with no problem. Yes it burns through quickly, so does require a lot of refuelling, but the wood costs me nowt so it doesnt make my wallet wince when I do.

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A bit of brief report there Stoner. 😆

I'm going for a Pulitzer.

I was disappointed that there was no graphs.

stoner...I'm considering killing you and stealing your life.
nothing to worry about mind, just idle thoughts while I do my boring IT job......maybe 😈

Stoner, how long did you season the willow for? We've got one we need to take down in the garden.

You'll need to protect the new growth from deer for three years or so, either with fencing or with a Very Large Cat. And with the latter, you'll need good fences anyway.

I was disappointed that there was no graphs.

Coincidentally, since the sun is shining today, I've just been out to the wood store to bring in a tonne of logs to the boiler room to see us well into January, and to refill the pellet hopper with the last of last years pallet. I placed an order for a tonne of pellets this morning. My usual supplier is now offering a generic A1/EN+ rated pellet for as little as £210 a tonne. The Verdo (premium brand) pellets are still £260 a tonne. But both are the same specification.

Fundamentally these incredibly low prices are appearing as a function of the unseasonably warm winter continental Europe is experiencing. As the UK is a now a net importer of pellets from Europe, their surplus of supply is pushing prices down over here. We anticipate prices shooting up across the board once the rest of Europe starts getting cold. By how much? It's difficult to tell, but we'd anticipate an increase of at least £20 per pallet, but potentially more.

Although pellet prices havent dropped as much as oil prices over the last 12-18 months, since I first got my pellet boiler 5yrs ago, prices have stayed the same or fallen.

any excuse for a graph:

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I get free access to as much willow as I can carry, from my local cricket bat manufacturer. I can pick up mature trunk 2 - 3ft rounds that are the perfect length for my woodburner, and split them with my big splitting maul. Yes, it is very wet when fresh, but it dries well, burns well, and is FREE!!!!!!

I also coppice my Hazel hedge for a mix of kindling sticks (0.5-1") and larger logs. Mixed in with some cherry wood from a fallen tree on my boundary, and some foraged Silver Birch, I do pretty well for free. 8)

mrchrispy - if you'd consider taking my cold too, you can have it.

ned - the willow would have been in cord around the field for 12-18m, then I would process and store for another 12-18m. I wont burn anything with more than 20% moisture. It's a waste of fuel. I'll keep it longer to season further, and buy and burn pellets instead.

Stoner - looking at the tyre on your chopping block - does that stop logs flying as you split them?

yes.

Interested in this also, as i have just bought a house and 2.5 acres of woodland on the mid wales border thats been left idle for about 15 years and needs some serious work. I discounted Willow as firewood for the reasons welshfarmer listed. My stove also does my heating and hot water.

A neighbour of my FiL chopped down a couple of conifers (Leylandii I think). I've kept the logs dry for a couple of years with a view to burning them in the chimenea. Someone has since told me that its resinous nature can make it a bit smoky and "lively". Is this true?

A neighbour of my FiL chopped down a couple of conifers (Leylandii I think). I've kept the logs dry for a couple of years with a view to burning them in the chimenea. Someone has since told me that its resinous nature can make it a bit smoky and "lively". Is this true?

Leylandii is excellent firewood once dry. It can take a while to season, but as it burns quite hot (if burnt correctly), the resinous isn't a problem, as it burns off.

In most cases, chimneys tarring up is due to damp wood being burnt - just make its dry.

Without wishing to disagree with that amazing post by Stoner, the OP says he wants to use some existing woodland. I've been trying to grow willow in an existing wood for the last 3 years, with zero success. Unless you clear fell all of the existing trees, I don't think there's enough light (and possibly water) for them to grow. I've tried whips directly in the wood, and starting them in pots in the garden (they grow fine until transplanted).
At the same time I've been planting silver birch and chestnut which are doing fine.
Maybe I'm using the wrong type?

any excuse for a graph:

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At the same time I've been planting silver birch and chestnut which are doing fine.

It very much depends on the ground conditions, but silver birch would be on my list. Just make sure that you don't try and keep it too long or it'll rot before you get chance to burn it.

I've been trying to grow willow in an existing wood for the last 3 years, with zero success. Unless you clear fell all of the existing trees, I don't think there's enough light (and possibly water) for them to grow. I've tried whips directly in the wood, and starting them in pots in the garden (they grow fine until transplanted).

I had the same experience. I terraced steep escarpment and planted rows of Flanders Red (Salix Alba Vitellina x Fragilis) with a view to building spiled banks along my brook. 3 years later and they're just lanky, spindly whips that have grown very little.

In a well irrigated open field, they grow like the clappers, but not much good in shaded woodland.

In a well irrigated open field, they grow like the clappers, but not much good in shaded woodland.

Indeed, if I wanted to infill, Id stick to sweet chestnut. Longer rotation, but useful timber that can be harvested for railings as well as fuel

Yes to sweet chestnut, it seems to really like my conditions. I suggest the op tries a few different types to find what works.

If I had the room, I'd try a few Eucalyptus, mixed with native species like hazel and ash in a coppice rotation.

On the eucalyptus, it grows very quickly but can take an age to dry due to its oily nature; two years is best. You're not confusing Alder with Elder are you OP, Alder is a majestic river side tree in my opinion. I'd be inclined to coppice what you have and plant whips in-between if there's space. Removing competition is key to getting trees started, including grass and weeds. If you have a local tree nursery you'll notice they'll rotavate between rows to keep vegetation down.

****ing ash every time. You can burn it green and grows quick. Mind you, I wouldn't bother planting trees for firewood - you'll be waiting forever and you get **** all for it. Better off just buying it in ~£1,000 an artic load which would do you for a few years maybe. Use the land for growing timber for craftwork or building materials e.g. sweet chesnut coppicing for fence hurdles or softwood for joists - much better markup and more useful.

as always - depends on the soil. Whats growing there at the moment, and what age is it?

you could look at some of the CCF techniques, especially something traditional like retaining standards over coppice. I recall some work a few years ago on mixed planting in poor soils to include some red alder, so you get a nice nitrogen boost to bring on the surrounding crop.

Depends on your site entirely, ground condition, soil, height, aspect, weather and many more variables. Everything will burn, some just needs more time to do so effectively.

Sycamore is the one tree to succeed anywhere - it will grow fast, split easy, burn well and coppice. Lots of people are quite anti sycamore, which is silly, massively under rated fuel wood and can be a massive food source for wildlife.

Alder is a good fast growing tree, coppices well, thrives on wetter sites. Downside is it can't be kept for too long as firewood, goes quite powdery beyond 15 months we find.

Sweet chestnut, another good coppice tree, not so fast growing but good wood fuel, easy to split.

Poplar, pretty well covered by Stoner. Used for matchsticks, so you can be fairly certain it will burn. Black poplar is a pain to split though, claimed 2 blades and a valve block on the old log splitter.

Ash, fine if you've got it, but think it still has planting restrictions.

Softwood wise, been impressed with the growth of our hemlock, easy splitting as very clean stem, minimal brash. Could be a good nurse/shelter crop. Majority of softwoods are quick to get away compared to hardwoods anyway. Larch we have found to burn well, but also has restrictions currently.

Finally, there are grants out there, particularly for new planting. These generally contribute towards planting and fencing. Only aware of Glastir as I am in Wales, they aren't great for the forestry sector, but I for new plantings as you can recoup some cost.

Or eucalyptus is touted as the fast growing future proof tree for a warming climate.

Coyote - Member

A neighbour of my FiL chopped down a couple of conifers (Leylandii I think). I've kept the logs dry for a couple of years with a view to burning them in the chimenea. Someone has since told me that its resinous nature can make it a bit smoky and "lively". Is this true?

It burns just fine! 😉

Question, what's the purpose of this wood burning fashion? I don't get it.

timbur, whereabouts are you?

Question, what's the purpose of this wood burning fashion? I don't get it.

seosamh, warmth mostly. plus it's carbon-neutral for those who care. And everyone loves a real fire, don't they?

thecaptain - Member
seosamh, warmth mostly. plus it's carbon-neutral for those who care. And everyone loves a real fire, don't they?

How are you recycling the burnt carbon and keeping it out of the atmosphere?

Admittedly that doesn't offset the petrol, oil, chainsaws, quad, 4x4, trailer, log burner....

[i]Question, what's the purpose of this wood burning fashion? I don't get it.[/i]

It warms the house, which seems to be drier from the improved air circulation.

It's nicer to look at than a CH radiator.

Some of the fuel is a freebie.

By growing more trees.
Admittedly that doesn't offset the petrol, oil, chainsaws, quad, 4x4, trailer, log burner....

Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem buring wood, I enjoy a camp fire as much as the next person, but it's not sustainable.

If we all started burning wood to heat our homes there'd be no forest in short order!

Unless we curb world population there will be no forest anyway due to logging for agriculture/pulp/building etc. At least most people burning wood are actively replanting at least as much, if not more than they burn (well I am anyway!)

At least most people burning wood are actively replanting at least as much

I'd doubt that. I'd guess the forestry commission probably does though currently mind, while it's small scale.

But everything in moderation is obviously fine, even burning fossil fuels. I just don't see the argument that tree's are better. It's not scale-able.

Coppicing is reasonably sustainable. Fuel consumption is outstripped by carbon sequestration usually. Also given the ratio of fuel wood to total organic matter in a coppice there's usually a higher co2 lock up each rotation (in mulched matter) than re-released through burning.

Most pellet manufacturer (for accreditation anyway) is from dedicated new plantation.

The younger trees and biomass used in pellet and chip production fix co2 in far greater volumes than mature trees too.

Guess it's an interesting question actually is it scale-able?

Time for some fag packet mathematics! 😆 Feel free to change the numbers to suit!

So according to the forestry commission there are 3814 million tree's in the UK.

there are 26.7 million house holds in the uk.

Say an average household would burn 10 tree's in a year?

So the uk have capacity, only to keep uk house holds warm for around 10 years or so.

We're obviously looking at before you factor in forestry operation and transports etc to make this carbon neutrual so you'd need to plant more tree's than you cut down.

That's before you get into the need for business's to heat.

Guess it might be sustainable if we bought up 3 or 4 uk's worth of Amazon (and replanted with quick growning tree's)to keep us going!

The carbon released from my chainsaw fuel is very very very small indeed compared to the wood I've got stacked (which was grown in the garden, and needed to be disposed of anyway). A few litres of petrol versus several tonnes of wood (when dry) makes it 0.1% as a rough estimate, definitely no more than 1% at the upper limit. A 99% reduction in fossil fuel emissions would certainly solve the problem of anthropogenic climate change in short order.

It doesn't need to be scalable to everyone, for it to be worthwhile for some, even many.

Plus, it's effectively free - in fact I'd have had to pay for disposal if it was not usable as fuel. If it had been left to rot then the carbon would have gone back into the atmosphere anyway - worse, there would have been methane too. It all came from the atmosphere over the last 100y or so, and will be taken up by other trees grown in the same area, that's why it is carbon neutral.

10 trees a year? Depends how big your tree is. Mine is certainly going to last for multiple years though admittedly it only provides a part of the heat required (in a big draughty house). One tree per year might be more realistic, on your figures it would be a 100y old tree so many tonnes in weight.

Plus, it's effectively free

If you have the capacity to grow a small forest at the bottom of the garden I'd guess so! 😆

thecaptain - Member
10 trees a year?

Like I say feel free to change the numbers, the above is just a starting point for the discusion. I'm well aware my numbers are out (and i'm willing to have my mind changed).

How many 10/20 year cycle tree's would you need to burn to heat a home? Bearing in mind that heating a home involves having a wood burner in every room in the house most likely.

I'm out of the office for now, but I have all the data for the last 5yrs of heating my house with biomass so will put up the calcs later

Nobody growing/burning Miscanthus then?

Cheers stoner, be interested to see that.

Stoner gets his pellets delivered bagged?
🙁
Part of my addled brain seems to remember you building a hopper. Isn't blown bulk cheaper?

Don't forget, the current RHI and fashion for biomass means that UK and European demand outstripped supply. That now has a huge export of pellets from the USA / Canada in big, oil-burning ships. Unintended consequences and all that.

TT I built the hopper before I bought the coppice. Now that 80%+ of my fuel needs are met by my own coppiced logs I don't need much in the way if pellets. 1 tonne a year is all I use which is too little to have delivered blown, not to mention hard to keep dry kept for 12 months in a hopper rather than in individual bags.

If you're claiming RHI payments for a system, they are increasing more hoops to jump through, to prove source and quality. Pellet has little financial benefit compared to oil around here. Lot of people are installing batch boilers around here now, just fill them with sticks/billets. Easier to source, less processing involved = cheaper. Know a man with a 26ton splitter who is now very busy billeting oversize mill logs.

We've always been dubious of pellet and chips due to the large handling inputs. Pellets from sawmill waste certainly make sense as it is utilising a waste. Chip is quite intensive on oil and storage.

Not much chance of UK forestry being self sufficient with the use of biomass power stations (but they do have a good knock on effect for timber prices) which also burn a lot of millable timber. Far better to build with more timber as that ties up carbon. Bit of proper grading required.

Suspect I have deviated from the OP, just plant trees, look after them and use accordingly.

MrGFisher - I'm in the Brecon Beacons. Not sure of the Glastir contacts now as they are not beneficial to us, gone through FC, consultants, WA and NRW in the last 5 years.

Whereabouts in the Beacons Timber? I am over this side in the Blacks, not far from the border.

Why? Petrol etc for the saw apart, it's free.
As for co2 etc. Bugger that . Wood for fuel was going long before electricity for computer games and driving bikes to the woods so I claim the right to be correct. 😀
I'll stop burning wood when all the modern luxuries stop first.
Welshfarmer, where are you? I am sure I know you?

Just outside Brecon, but work sites on Sugar Loaf and Skirrid amongst others.

Hehe, was riding on the Sugar Loaf this evening. I am up near Llanthony Priory. If you are on the forestry job I think they are about to start logging the wood opposite me very soon as they have just been upgrading the track.

seosamh77 - just how many houses do you think have the capability of actually burning wood? The greater majority these days have central heating from gas or electricity, most newer homes don't even have chimneys, so your argument is fairly redundant.
And there are more trees in the UK now than for decades.
Although various diseases threaten increasing numbers of our trees, which does mean that culling diseased trees produces wood for fuel, or whatever.
Hornbeam, beech, ash and oak used to be coppiced for firewood or charcoal for iron smelting, I think hornbeam grows fairly fast, it's used for hedging, and is pretty hard, it was used for tool handles, wheel-spokes, etc, and burns well.
Might be soil-specific, though.

We've spotted the work going on up near Llanthony if they are the headlands you can spot from the Hereford road.
We're slightly smaller fish working for a charity across a mixed estate, hopefully taking a more considered approach.

CountZero, I get your point about finding houses with chimneys, even in a rural are we struggled to find a house with its chimney still intact and the estate agents viewed them as a negative thing that could be removed.

Hornbeam is a bit regional I think, about this way it is/was used in hedges as a marker tree of boundaries, if you can still find any mature hedges. Beech grows fast, but not the easiest to split compared to others. Good firewood if you have the time or machinery.

I have some bamboo flooring offcuts.. it burns very well and pretty damn hot.
Not sure if you could grow the right flavour in this country to burn but im pretty sure its one of the fastest growing tree / shrubby things there is

Bamboo is horribly invasive and a right bugger to keep under control (I know there's 2 types but the largest is the bugger to control). It's not a great idea to introduce foreign invasive species when other alternatives are available.
It grows wild here in Virginia and makes a real mess.

Miscanthus is a perennial grass similar to bamboo but it is a more efficient producer of biomass. It is still being developed as a crop but there are commercial UK plantings and it is burnt at Drax power station

Hornbeam is a bit regional I think, about this way it is/was used in hedges as a marker tree of boundaries, if you can still find any mature hedges. Beech grows fast, but not the easiest to split compared to others. Good firewood if you have the time or machinery.

Welshfamer.
with an interest in 4wd and downhill buggies?