[Closed] Fare dodging on the train

Sorry, wrong forum. This has nowt to do with bikes.

i got a 30 quid fine , if i did not pay id go to court , i did not pay (ticket machine was out of order) was gonna pay on the train , not good enough these days , waiting on a court date ,, been 2 yrs now

Well considering I wasn't far off being on an assault charge on the condescending little hitler I had to deal with, I reckon a £30 fine is ok.

Man doesn't pay for train ticket, gets caught, then considers beating up the guy who is just doing his job.

If they do send you a fine, pay it. If you have to turn up to court, do so. Otherwise you will end up with a criminal record, etc. etc.

If you can't get a ticket on the platform and you're polite and reasonable to the guard, they will always sell you a ticket on the train. If you try and run away from them until your stop or try and BS your way out of paying, then they probably won't.

Wasn't there a thread about this on here recently?

They need to sort out this inconsistency. Either you can buy a ticket on the train or you can't. It shouldn't come down to "well, you can buy a ticket if the guard likes the cut of your jib."

Either, you board a train without a ticket and you get fined for boarding a train without a ticket, or it's perfectly acceptable to go "yes, I'd like a ticket please" when the inspector comes along. There shouldn't ever be a situation where you're sat on a train without a ticket but every intention of buying one as soon as you can, and then running the risk of getting fined for it.

Er, no. Man doesn't pay for train ticket because the inspector at departure station waved him through the barrier so he didn't miss the train. Man then gets pulled up at destination station by another inspector, admits not having a ticket, explains the situation. Then the little hitler inspector accuses man of deliberately dodging fare, saying it's impossible that the other inspector waved him through the barrier at departure station. Argument between little hitler and man ensues, little hitler calls police over, man gets angry, little hitler reports him for fare dodging etc....

The fine will be paid, don't worry about that.

I agree with Cougar. They need to decide on a rule and stick to it. Years ago I got an on the spot fine, I was planning on buying my ticket while on the train as I used to do all the time but the gaurd was having none of it.

Cougar +1

So you didn't give yourself enough time to buy a ticket, then assumed people would just believe you? Why didn't you buy a ticket on the train? If you get to your destination station and the gates are up and you don't have a ticket, then you will be fined, no way round it.

There's a reason why they have posters and announcements saying not to get on a train if you don't have a ticket. If you don't have a ticket and you get on a train, you're risking being fined. Don't complain about it, you can't plead ignorance, it's obvious.

If you tried to steal from a shop and caught by the security guard, would you complain about the inconsistency of security guards in shops? That there should be an all or none rule enforced?

In my experience, there are two types of inspectors:
1. Ticket inspectors (these will sell you a ticket and cannot fine you)
2. Guards (always come in groups of 2 or more, they cannot sell you a ticket, they can only fine you)

The inconsistency is annoying as it depends on who you run into.

Obviously if you have the opportunity to buy a ticket, and you don't it is your fault; but if running for the train, it would be useful to know whether you are allowed to buy a ticket once you get there, or at the destination.

Dave

Train was v. crowded, no man to buy a ticket from.

Look I'm not disputing the fact I didn't have a ticket and held my hands up to it. What I object to is some little hitler putting words in my mouth, deliberately misinterpreting what I've told him, accusing me of getting on somewhere else, and blowing what is a pretty insignificant situation (£2 fare!) up into the crime of the century.

Argument between little hitler and man ensues, little hitler calls police over, man gets angry,

Look I'm not disputing the fact I didn't have a ticket and held my hands up to it.

😕

Quick question: why is it that sometimes you can buy a ticket on the train and other times it's a pallava? I use East Coast all the time and they have barriers at both ends and people on then rain to buy tickets from whom you would think are largely redundant as you can't get through the 'in' barrier without a ticket.

Is there a 'standard' policy?

There's a reason why they have posters and announcements saying not to get on a train if you don't have a ticket.

Why do they sell tickets on trains then?

If you tried to steal from a shop and caught by the security guard, would you complain about the inconsistency of security guards in shops? That there should be an all or none rule enforced?

That's not the same situation though, is it. In that analogy, it's like closing all the tills and then being stopped halfway round the store for shoplifting.

Why do they sell tickets on trains then?

Also some stations don't have a manned ticket booth, or a ticket machine, so there's no way to actually buy a ticket before boarding.

Had some officious guard try to do me for fair dodging, it took him a while to back down even when I pointed out the station bloke had gone home and there wasn't a machine to use.

Why do they sell tickets on trains then?

To help people out. When they sell you a ticket on a train they are doing something nice. If you get on a train without a ticket, expect a fine. Be thankful when you can buy a ticket instead.

That's not the same situation though,

It is though. The moment you step on to that train without a ticket, you're committing a fine-able offence. Do it if you want, but don't complain about the consequences, it's just childish.

@Realman The argument was not over whether I had a valid ticket or not, that much was self evident. The argument was about the aggressive, condescending and totally unprofessional way in which this guy spoke to me, and the way in which he was trying to blow it up into a something it wasn't.

The moment you step on to that train without a ticket, you're committing a fine-able offence

So what are you supposed to do at the hundreds of stations around the country that don't have ticketing facilities? Not get on a train?

RealMan - Member

<snip> The moment you step on to that train without a ticket, you're committing a fine-able offence.

Do you have the de facto reference for this please?

Do you have the de facto reference for this please?

The posters and announcements they have all over train stations?

So what are you supposed to do at the hundreds of stations around the country that don't have ticketing facilities? Not get on a train?

I've never seen or heard of one like that. Buy it online maybe?

Would you try and get on a plane without a ticket?

@Realman The argument was not over whether I had a valid ticket or not, that much was self evident. The argument was about the aggressive, condescending and totally unprofessional way in which this guy spoke to me, and the way in which he was trying to blow it up into a something it wasn't.

Then what were you arguing about? Why did he feel the need to call the police?

I was going to suggest hiding in the toilet. This seems to be someones solution on every single Northern Rail train I've ever been on. For the entire duration of the journey 🙄

Network south east used to have "permit to travel" machines. Just stick some coins in a press button. You're supposed to trade it in for a real ticket at the 1st opportunity, but I doubt many do, unless stopped by an inspector.
Essential for all those small stations in the middle of nowhere, with 1 ticket machine that accepts nothing larger than a £10 and accepts no cards, and accepts no notes that have seen better days.

Don't the posters say something like 'travelling without a valid ticket blah blah'? Not 'tickets must be purchased before going through the barriers'?

That's why I asked for the specific reference not a fob off with a public information poster.

I've never seen or heard of one like that. Buy it online maybe?

Don't get out from under your (railway?) bridge much then?

To help people out. When they sell you a ticket on a train they are doing something nice.

Cobblers. They're doing it because they have to, because not every railway station has the facility to sell tickets. Doing something nice would be going "oh, don't worry about it, I've got a couple spare that I can sell you," not walking round with a damned ticket machine expressly to sell tickets. That's not being nice, that's an official system in place.

The moment you step on to that train without a ticket, you're committing a fine-able offence.

Oh, I dare say. But what else are you supposed to do if you want to board a train that has no ticket office and no automated ticket machine at its station, but probably sells tickets on the train?

Let's say, as an example, at short notice my mum needs to get an evening train to Preston from her home station, which is Accrington. She doesn't have an Internet connection. There's no time to order tickets by phone / post as she needs to leave that day. She gets to the station to find there's no ticket machine, and because it's gone 5pm the office is closed.

So, she either cancels her trip, or gets on the train with the intention of buying a ticket from the inspector, [i]who carries a ticket machine expressly for that purpose.[/i]

Now, it's a lottery:

a) she meets an inspector, he goes "tickets madam," she replies "I'd like a ticket to Preston please, I boarded at Accrington and the office was closed." He replies "no problem madam, there you go, that'll be three quid."

or,

a) she meets a guard, he goes "tickets madam," she replies "I'd like a ticket to Preston please, I boarded at Accrington and the office was closed." He replies "sorry madam, boarding a train without a ticket is an offence, that'll be thirty quid and I'm ringing the police to pull you off at Blackburn if don't pay up."

It's cock. In that situation it's easy to go "well, you don't travel" but then [i]they sell tickets on the trains![/i] What's anyone going to do in that situation? They're not intending to defraud the train companies, they're intending to pay using the systems that they bloody well put in place for just this purpose! "It's ok love, you can pay on the train... whoops, sorry, we mean, it's illegal, pay up!" There's a legal term for this, it's called Entrapment.

and I'm ringing the police to pull you off at Blackburn

I knew Blackburn was rough, but I didn't realise the police were there specifically to perform sexual favours 😯

I've never seen or heard of one like that. Buy it online maybe?

Plenty of train stops don't have anything other than a platform.

Of the ones that do, not all are 24 hour.

Not everyone has Internet access.

Internet-ordered tickets take time to post. Even e-tickets still have to be collected from a designated point (major stations only).

Use the train much, do we?

I'm with RealBoy on this one. You got on a train full knowing you were required to buy a ticket, weren't in possession of a valid ticket for your journey, then give it the biggun to some poor sod doing his job.

Is it the ticket inspector's fault you din't buy a ticket cos you were running late? No. do you expect him to make an exception for you in front of hundreds of other potential fare dodgers? No. They have to be seen to be doing their job, to deter people from travelling without a ticket.

All you had to do was say 'fair cop guv'nor, you've caught me bang to rights', then just accepted the fine.

Then, right, you'd now be less stressed about it and woo't feel the need to come and vent your spleen on an internet forum.

Sorry, but I'm right, and deep down, you know I am.

Zokes > yeah, I did wonder about that when I typed it... (-:

Then what were you arguing about? Why did he feel the need to call the police?

What was I arguing about? See above.

He called the cops over to intimidate me because I had the temerity challenge him when he went off on his power trip.

You're not a traffic warden by any chance are you?

Cougar, you really should have given your Mum a lift. Tight sod. 🙂

Looks like Elfin has taken control of the 'I'm right' button...

I'm always right. I really don't know why anyone ever bothers arguing with me, quite frankly...

😐

They should not only make the whole when you buy the ticket consistent but also try to make it consistent across different companies! I'm pretty sure that Arriva trains have no issue with you buying tickets on the train.

Freddedbra, earlier...

[img] [/img]

Realman is the inspector in question, and I claim my £5 prize.

😀

then give it the biggun to some poor sod doing his job

It was the other way round actually.

All you had to do was say 'fair cop guv'nor, you've caught me bang to rights', then just accepted the fine.

Exactly what I did, actually. The trouble is that didn't fit with his pre-conceived idea of what the situation was so he then did his level best to misrepresent what I'd told him so that it did.

Go on, what'd you say?

If the train companies employed enough staff on both the trains and at stations this wouldn't be a problem.

I use a number of stations that have no ticket facilities, it's a lottery whether there will be any. The system is inconsistent and takes the mick out of passengers.

When I used to work for GNER we used to get commission for tickets we sold on the train, so I'd always tell people to buy tickets on the train.

😉

Good old GNER, where are they now? Ooops....

Well, the bosses got massive payouts and the railway got handed over to another massively public subsidised company.

Everyone's a winner!

and my f...ing season ticket is still £6k!

"and my f...ing season ticket is still £6k!"

Tell me about it mate.

And don't try to work out peak and off peak times, it's a bloody minefield!

Cougar, you really should have given your Mum a lift. Tight sod.

Ah, well, she was visiting me in Preston hospital, following an unfortunate accident involving a railway guard, a pair of secateurs and a catering pack of blancmange.

In reality, yes, I'd give her a lift, but that kinda ruins my example so hush. (-:

Realman gets the STW Barrister of the day award from me.

and my f...ing season ticket is still £6k!

So unless you get caught and fined four times a week, it's cheaper simply not to bother and pay the fines.

Realman gets the STW Barrister of the day award from me.

Grande caramel macchiato with an extra shot, to go please.

Cougar - Member

and my f...ing season ticket is still £6k!

So unless you get caught and fined four times a week, it's cheaper simply not to bother and pay the fines.

Evidently, that's what some people choose to do...

Works well, this system.

It's flawless, Cougar.

I think they'd pay on the train but are a bit off by all the pallava...

I don't use the trains very often, but when I do, depending on the time of travel (evenings especially) i'll always board without buying a ticket. I always used to buy one, but they rarely, if ever have someone on to check it - so I just buy on the train if asked, if not then it's a journey bonus and a few extra quid for a night out 🙂 - the trains are obscenely expensive

Terrrrrrrroll!

To the OP: my ex had a situation where she boarded a train and bought a ticket from the guard. At the end the ticket didn't open the gate. Turns out it was the 'wrong' ticket she had been sold (see GG's comment ^^^ about off peak I guess) and the inspector demanded the uplift (less than £2). The ex replied I've paid for a ticket you (i.e. rail company made the mistake). The inspector then called over the police...

...who couldn't give a shit (hardly surprising really). BTW the ex is sub 5' and hardly likely to start a fight.

The ex complained to the rail company as she was extremely radged up over the whole thing. They sent some vouchers as means of compensation.

You might try a similar tack? (not for vouchers, but recognition that their employees sometimes got OTT)

while boarding a train near to Southampton recently, i witnessed 5 kids refusing to buy a ticket and just legging it down the platform.

felt quite sorry for the ticket inspector.

Anybody ever been fined by scotrail? Or is this just an english thing? Just curious as I've bought loads of tickets on trains, never been threatened with being fined once. Seems very odd to me anyhow, sounds just like robbery by the train companies...

From what I've witnessed there is so much fare dodging on Scotrail trains the conductors are happy to sell anyone a ticket on the train or otherwise

I caught a train Italy in Italy last weekend, it just highlighted to me what a rip off ****in shambles trains are over here!! Public transport outside the cities in this country officially sucks balls!!

If you can't buy a ticket, i was under inpression you had to get a permit to travel from the machine in order for you to board the train and then buy a ticket, otherwise you commit an offence?

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permit_to_travel#Use_and_operation ]Excuse the wiki[/url]

wrightyson - Frecciarossa by any chance? I was on one a couple of months ago - fanfeekkintastic. State run public transport at 200+ mph, on time, clean, comfortable with a restaurant (not buffet) car.

Nope just a double decker trenitalia job, could have set your watch as it left. 70km into Venice, €4.40 each.

I'm sure the Scotrail posters say something along the lines of you can't take advantage of any offers or discounts if you buy on the train, not that you can't buy one at all. Was reading one at the weekend waiting to board the Aviemore steam train for a spot of afternoon tea. Probably differs between the different operators?

Elfinsafety
I'm with RealBoy on this one. You got on a train full knowing you were required to buy a ticket, weren't in possession of a valid ticket for your journey, then give it the biggun to some poor sod doing his job.

But earlier...

dazh
Man doesn't pay for train ticket because the inspector at departure station waved him through the barrier so he didn't miss the train. Man then gets pulled up at destination station by another inspector, admits not having a ticket, explains the situation.

Though I suppose it depends on whether the inspector waived you through knowing you didn't have a ticket, or whether he assumed you already had one but didn't bother to check so you wouldn't miss the train.