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My Ex wife left 4 years ago and moved 2.5hrs . This left me as a single dad raising 4 Children (all under 10 at the time). Things have been difficult with my EX. She see the kids every 2 weeks but frequently cancels or changes plans at the last minute. Due to covid and my worry about the children saftey I allowed her to come and stay in my rented house to see the kids.
My fear at the time was that if i made it too hard she just would not see them or try to take them away from me. Despite my constant request over the years she rarley lets the kids stay with her. She has a small flat and she is worried her neighbours will complain.
Last month I finally made the decision to stop her staying in my house as I was tired of her attitude to the whole situation and general flakiness about seeing the kids. This was a difficult decision for me as there has always been constant threats from their mum that if I don't do things the way she wants she will take the kids from me. I also feel an imense guilt for stopping the kids seeing their mum as often. Part of me knows this is her not me, however part of me feels that if i did not make this decision the kids would see their mum more.
Her behaviour and attitude has caused me alot of anxiety over the years both during our marriage and seperation.
This week my girlfriend and I broke up due to her feeling that I will never escape the drama with the kid's mum and the anxiety it causes me. She also said now their mum cannot stay in the house me and my girlfriend would not get as much time together. I'm gutted
Today I recieved papers filed by their mum from a mediation service. Their mum says it is for 50% custody of the children, the mediation provider won't confirm with me what it is for. I had wrongly believed that mediation was to prevent going to court. however as long as she attends mediation she can file court papers regardless.
My view on this situation is that at the point she moves in a suitable house in a suitable location (She says in the summer) we should have this discussion and how we manage childcare. I'm not against 50% but also feel like i'm losing my kids. Her attitude and general flakiness means I feel that this will just end with me doing what I'm doing now and her just seeing the kids if it is convienient and changing stuff at the last minute, She is frequently abroad so I cannot see 50% working.
For the benfit of the kid's I have always tried to maintain a reasonable approach towards their mum however as many people have pointed out she often takes the piss with this stuff.
I'm really not sure what to do now. I'm very scared about the court route and the potential cost to me and the children, I feel a bit overwhelmed with everything that has happened this week. I have arranged an appointment with a solicitor but this won't be until the new year so feel a bit stuck with everything.
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Mediation is to attempt to get the parents to agree to solve the issues with a third party (independent/unbiased supposedly) before it goes to court.
Sometimes it works, as you discuss what you both want and agree how to settle it, if you can't it will go to court and the court decides.
Normal courts insist on it as a first step.
dont mess about with internet advice - go and see a proper family solicitor.
The information I have had so far if from the people my Ex has asked to provide mediation. They seemed to indicate that it was just a box ticking exercise and once she has had her consultation she is free to go straight to court before I have even spoken to the mediatiator.
Yep you need proper advice
But being single track I’ll pile in any way
Courts make decisions based on the interests of kids. They can’t attend 2 schools. Surely she’d have to be able to get them to their current schools daily to have a leg to stand on? Even then she’d have to show that it’s in the kids interest to leave a stable home they’ve had for 4 years
The information I have had so far if from the people my Ex has asked to provide mediation. They seemed to indicate that it was just a box ticking exercise and once she has had her consultation she is free to go straight to court before I have even spoken to the mediatiator.
I’m sure she can just go straight to court without mediation. But mediation has to involve both parties surely?
I’m sure she can just go straight to court without mediation. But mediation has to involve both parties surely?
This is what I had a thought so it was a bit of a kick in the nuts to have it described as a box ticking exercise, prior to being bale to go straight to court by the lady from the mediators.
I was hoping maybe someone on here had been through it, so could give me some insight. For me it is quite frustrating waiting to speak to a lawyer as im an anxious person who is not great at putting stuff out my mind.
Based on what you've said above, the courts would side with you.
Echoing others, they have had a stable life living with you for the past 4 years, and there must have been a reason why this happened in the first place.
The onus will be on your Ex to demonstrate why it would be in the children's interests to change this. (based on the above I doubt she will be able to do so)
Sounds like your Ex is a drama queen so i'd call her bluff.
Go through the mediation process (and legal) so that you can close that chapter of your life.
The distance and how it relates to schooling would be a key issue for any mediation to resolve - and I'm not sure how that could ever work with the kids' interest at the forefront of everything.
See a specialist solicitor, engage with the mediation process in good faith, the process should not be weighted in favour of the mother in these circumstances.
What do the kids want!? Assume they are now in their teens they are more than capable of expressing their view.
IMO and experience they will not want to bugger off away from their mates to a flat every other weekend. How will your ex manage the school run etc if she is 2.5 hrs away. Go to mediation but talk to the kids as well. Maybe they want to spend more time with mum. I don't think you loose them by this and maybe gives you time to focus on your future relationships. What about finances, would a more equal split allow you to spend more on a nice holiday once a year.
Good luck
The distance and how it relates to schooling would be a key issue for any mediation to resolve – and I’m not sure how that could ever work with the kids’ interest at the forefront of everything.
Her take is that if the courts grant her 50% custody then at that point she will move back nearer to where me and the kids live. She has been very flakey about seeing the kids, is often abroad for work or personal trips and has gone up to 6 weeks between seeing the kids before. I can't see 50% working but also can't see i have any real arguement to stop it.
Agree that you need proper advice, but that tne last 4 years put you in a strong position - especially of you have a record (texts or other messages) to show she has let them down.
You may need to bite your lip to avoud saying doung anything she can use against you though.
A mate had a couple of mediation sessions, I think they are more or less compulsory to try and avoid additional time and cost in proceedings - he said his ex and the mediator showed no interest and treated it as a bix ticking exercise. He may just be bitter
Her take is that if the courts grant her 50% custody then at that point she will move back nearer to where me and the kids live.
Doubt she would. Why did she move that far away in the first place?
Her take is that if the courts grant her 50% custody then at that point she will move back nearer to where me and the kids live.
It's possible she's had a 'road to damascus' moment about how she's treated the kids and wants to change in the future. Obviously you'll have a view on how likely that is. But people don't get awarded 50% custody just on vague future promises, there should be some hard evidence that the parent is already taking steps to move closer, rather than waiting for the outcome before doing anything.
What do the kids want!? Assume they are now in their teens they are more than capable of expressing their view.
The eldest is 13 and youngest is 8. Their mum did offer for just my eldest daughter, 11 to go and live with her last year, which would of been a nightmare in terms of her ever seeing her siblings. Their mum then backed out of this idea saying she could live with her in a few years time.
She seems to always suggest these things or make these promises to the kids then U-turn when she actually has to do something about it. recieving an invite to mediation was a bit of a surprise/shock.
It’s possible she’s had a ‘road to damascus’ moment about how she’s treated the kids and wants to change in the future
I would like that to be true but I honestly think this is about punishing me for no longer letting her stay in my house to see the kids. I have at several times thought "this is it she is finally going to step up" too many times with her to let myself believe that.
Yeah, figured that would be the reply, TBH.
Sounds like the idea of living locally may not survive contact with reality then.
Give her a flavour of modern family life by hyping the kids up on multiple big bags of haribo before her next session with them.*
*don't do this. 🙂
You need to keep a diary of all her flakiness and false promises
What do the kids want!? Assume they are now in their teens they are more than capable of expressing their view.
Mediation and or court will take months, potentially longer - so your eldest will probably be 14, and making her own mind up - anyone who has ever tried to reason with a 14 yr old girl knows that it is impossible. The parents I know who have separated, and are in any way vaguely amicable now, the official arrangement has SFA to do with the reality - because once they get to secondary school really it will be their decision not yours where they actually go! You can say they can't come, and be resented, but you'll not persuade them to stay if they perceive a better offer!
Their mum did offer for just my eldest daughter,
Unless there's some specific reason, I don't think the courts will look favourably on this.
They seemed to indicate that it was just a box ticking exercise and once she has had her consultation she is free to go straight to court before I have even spoken to the mediatiator.
Presumably there is an option to use a different mediation service. If you can get the above suggestion in writing it would do her no favours, if you can show you tried to engage and she didn't. Mediation should be able to resolve stuff.
Her take is that if the courts grant her 50% custody then at that point she will move back nearer to where me and the kids live.
She might be deluded. Courts are used to people making sweeping statements they don't have the ability to fulfil. I'd expect the judge to be more cynical, not least because he's been lied to before, but because if I remember correctly someone has to comment on the suitability of the home.
She has been very flakey about seeing the kids, is often abroad for work or personal trips and has gone up to 6 weeks between seeing the kids before. I can’t see 50% working but also can’t see i have any real arguement to stop it.
Sounds like a starting point for mediation! "OK, if I agree to 50% how is it going to work - week on week off? or Sun night - Thur Am? etc." Make sure you think though who is taking to out of school clubs etc... Her assumption is probably you are going to fight the whole idea. What about finances - I know one couple thats got messy because expectation was all kids costs were getting split 50/50 but Dad says yes to everything including expensive school ski trips without consulting then tells her she needs to pay £550 for her half!
Sounds like a starting point for mediation! “OK, if I agree to 50% how is it going to work – week on week off? or Sun night – Thur Am? etc.” Make sure you think though who is taking to out of school clubs etc… Her assumption is probably you are going to fight the whole idea. What about finances – I know one couple thats got messy because expectation was all kids costs were getting split 50/50 but Dad says yes to everything including expensive school ski trips without consulting then tells her she needs to pay £550 for her half!
Thank you. This is kind of where my mind is. too many details to iron out first and largley pointless until she is back in the area. Currently the financial burden is on me. She finally started paying a very small amount of CM last year but it came with threats of the kids will have to live with her when i first asked.
There is massive difference between standing in court saying “I have moved closer and have a suitable house for me and 4 kids and job a within easy reach of the kids school” and saying “I hope to have a house and job near the kids school”
I know it’s easy to say but start worrying when she moves. Can she afford to rent a 3 bed house? Can she move her job?
If you can’t afford a solicitor then head for a CAB. Some one in head office will have created some sensible literature on how all this works
Reminder I’m no expert
Final thought. It might be worth being pro active on helping her see the kids. Could she stay in a motel near you for her weekends and take the kids out for the day? Or can she rent some where bigger where she is then you help with transport. If she can get the contact she wants without changing the legal basis of separation that might get her off your back
I have zero experience in this area, but...
For the benfit of the kid’s I have always tried to maintain a reasonable approachFor the benfit of the kid’s I have always tried to maintain a reasonable approach
and everything else you have said here shows that you have been decent, provided a stable environment for your four children and done your best to accommodate what may have been at times unreasonable demands and challenging behaviour.
Mediation is a start, but courts aren't stupid. They've seen everything and every promise/excuse in the book. They aren't going to remove your children. In fact they might place far more requirements on the mother (e.g., financial, residential) that might come as a shock to her. You both have joint responsibilities to your children, how you have risen to meet those responsibilities has been very different for you and her. The court will recognise that.
See a family solicitor just for a first consultation. They've also seen everything! If I were in your shoes, I would be trying to make their mother assume more responsibility, after all you've carried the load for four years (and you and your girlfriend have suffered as a consequence). I'll also bet she won't want to when you call her bluff and realises what's involved in raising four children- even half-time.
Final thought. It might be worth being pro active on helping her see the kids. Could she stay in a motel near you for her weekends and take the kids out for the day? Or can she rent some where bigger where she is then you help with transport. If she can get the contact she wants without changing the legal basis of separation that might get her off your back
Last time she saw them she took them to an airbnb. which i appreciate is expensive on top of the petrol to get here. I have no desire to stop the kids seeing her and I said i was open to her just have them during the daytime. She is not seeing them on Christmas day as she cannot find/afford anywhere to stay. With my recent breakup I do feel very bad for the kids about this.
They only way she is getting off my back is if I let her stay in my house again. then I'm just kicking this can down the road.
You’ve clearly been more than reasonable. I was just thinking aloud, sorry
@ampthill Sorry if i came across as short. I appreciate your input and it is nice to get a reminder that i have been reasonable 🙂
One of my sons has recently gone through mediation following a break-up but not with the significant time gap as in your case.
My understanding:
- either party can instruct a mediator to start the process
- mediator will notify other party that they have been instructed to act as mediator
- the party who initiates is invited to 1-1 meeting with mediator; referred to as a MIAM (Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting)
- other party is invited to their own 1-1 MIAM; attendance is not obligatory
- after both MIAMs the mediator will assess comments from both parties to determine whether or not one or more joint mediation sessions would help reach a resolution
- there may be some financial support available (outside of income based) in the form of a support voucher as the justice system wants to keep these sorts of matters out of the courts
- the first question a family solicitor or judge will ask is...have the parties attempted to resolve this through mediation? If the answer is No the response will (almost certainly) be - go to mediation before taking legal action. They have a clear expectation that the parties have exhausted all appropriate options before going legal
- if this goes legal, you should assume costs of at least £5k on each side but likely to be much more; legal aid may be available but any application will be means tested
So, in your case:
- ex has started the process so I don't believe you can opt to use a different mediator
- has the mediator referred to and offered you a MIAM?
- if you do not participate in mediation it's possible that refusal to engage will be held against you if this goes legal
My suggestion:
- engage with mediator
- ask (again) for details of what your ex has stated as a matter which requires mediation
- ask them to clarify position regarding MIAM; if they say no, ask why and tell them it's a legal requirement
- when you have this information, do your prep including what outcome you want and then meet mediator
- let's call the outcome you want the maximum so give some thought to the absolute minimum you would accept but do not disclose that; adopt a 'salami slicing' approach and for anything you concede look for something from the other side
- stay outwardly calm at all times
These situations are shit so...stay strong; take care of yourself - if you don't, you're no use to anyone; find an outlet to vent - this thread, if you wish; try to mentally prepare for an outome which you don't want - easy to say, much harder to do; if/when you meet/talk with mediator make sure that, after the opening pleasantries, you emphasise - and repeat - that what you want is what's best for your children; never forget that children are amazingly resilient; never allow your children to become 'collateral damage' in any disputes with your ex.
I really hope you get the outcome you want - and deserve.
My only advice is to make absolutely sure you write down everything about the past 4 years behaviour of the Ex, as far as how it relates to the kids, visits, no-show, cancel, false promises, gaps / erratic-ness, etc etc. Electronically, so you have copies.
Then you can hand a copy to your family solicitor. It'll make life for you and them easier (and marginally less expensive) if you have that all documented in a clear way, done in a non-rushed environment.
My only advice is to make absolutely sure you write down everything about the past 4 years behaviour of the Ex, as far as how it relates to the kids, visits, no-show, cancel, false promises, gaps / erratic-ness, etc etc. Electronically, so you have copies.
Thank you, I have started writting a history. It is surprisingly healing to do. 🙂
Isn't this like any negotiation where one side wants something different and to alter the current agreement. You start off with a higher than achievable demand that both sides know is unreasonable and very unlikely to work.
Then you barter back to a realistic proposition with each side conceding some ground to come up with a workable solution.
If that's every other weekend, plus 35 days during school holidays which is perfectly normal and satisfied her demand, although you know she will bail on a regular basis then it remains amicable and your not seen as the villain