falls alarm on prem...
 

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falls alarm on premium phone rates - any technical rationale ?

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Morning all

Found out just recently that my MiL's fall alarm - which has seen quite some action recently - is charging at aroud £3 per minute for the "alarm" call to their control centre.  My wife's trying to find out exactly what's going on, and why but for now all we've heard is that "it's for security"

Is there any merit in that statement? - do premium lines offer more security in some way (other than financial security for whoever set it up)?


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 8:58 am
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It's for profit and profit alone.

Absolutely no reason whatsoever it needs a premium number!

find another supplier, you're being ripped off and lied to by your current one.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 9:19 am
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I'm not an expert but surely you're paying for the cost of a 24/7 helpline that's only meant to be used in emergencies. I appreciate it's a lot more expensive than a standard phone call but it's not a standard phone call.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 9:27 am
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Needs to be considered alongside the subscription cost.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 9:30 am
chrismac reacted
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its paying for the person to answer is my guess, if the monthly subs are low.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 9:33 am
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Seems a very underhand way of doing business, much easier to just charge a flat fee per call.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 9:38 am
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How long are the calls? If they're a couple of minutes to go "are you OK?" then £6 doesn't seem wildly outrageous for an emergency response to a potentially life-threatening situation. If they're a couple of hours then not so much (and doubly so if it's on top of other subscription fees).

There's no technical reason for it I can think of other than paying for the service, the 'security' angle is surely nonsense. You don't have to pay £3/min for some sort of special call when you ring 999.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 9:46 am
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they're around 10 min each time

There's already a subscription charge.  Company says that it's for "security" and that the T&C say that users* should register the number with their phone company to avoid these charges.  We've asked for a copy - don't really see how/why her phone provider would just waive the charges anyway

*you know, the frail old dears that need the alarm in the first place


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 10:01 am
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Quite unusually, I have some expertise here. Until 18 months ago I ran an alarms service for a local authority and I have worked around telecare for 10 years or so so got a good understanding of how the industry works and how packages are charged.

Firstly, there is no technical reason why they need to use a premium rate number. I have never heard of any provider doing this before. All systems have multiple levels of contingency, but none of them need to be on any sort of premium rate line. You mum has a phone line going out of her house, they have (multiple) lines going in to their Alarm Receiving Centre. Use of a premium rate number is their choice, not a requirement.

Is it fair? Well that depends on the monthly subscription. As standard these tend to be £10 - £20 per month, sometime cheaper if run by local authority. If your MIL's charge is way cheaper, they may be charging per use, rather than higher monthly charge. I don't like this, it would be unusual but you can kind of see their logic in charging for services used (call handler time). If the monthly charge is £10+ and they are charging premium calls then I would move to another provider. There are plenty around.

Finally though, if they are providing a good service, and if the total costs are affordable (even with premium rate numbers) you need to consider the risk of changing, is continuity worth the extra few ££?


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 12:34 pm
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thanks all

I don't actually know the detail - yet - as my wife & her sister are already involved but they've apparently now said that the monitoring company doesn't make  money from this and it all goes to the phone provider, which seems even less plausible.  I think maybe I  see an ombudsman/regulator in their future


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 3:32 pm
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Well, that's clearly bullshit unless it's a mobile provider levying an extra charge to handle calls which are already premium-rate, which I think is possible still?

The question I want to ask is, who is "they"? I don't mean name and shame (yet), but are the people providing this information authorised to speak on the company's behalf or is it some random little bollocks in a call centre who's making shit up to get them off the phone? (Not that either is particularly great, but it might help with context.)

Gotta say though, from the third-hand swiss cheese info we have so far, it does sound dodgy AF.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 3:49 pm
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"they" are the service provider.  I'm sure it was, at least initially, some chimp in the call centre but my Mrs is quite persistent and she has been told she'll receive a written explanantion and justification of their position.

I'm with you in that this is almost incredible, Cougar but that is what's been said so far.  The massively implausible bit for me was the "security" aspect, hence my initial question.  Apparently when my wife googles the number that kept appearing on her mum's bill, there were multiple results with people describing that same scenario

Not naming the provider as I've no idea who they are


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 4:03 pm
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I don’t actually know the detail – yet – as my wife & her sister are already involved but they’ve apparently now said that the monitoring company doesn’t make money from this and it all goes to the phone provider,

There are loads of different ways alarms services are structured. Local Authorities, charities, not for profit companies, complex outsourcing, profit making businesses, some phone providers.

Alarm monitoring and response is potentially life saving so the most important thing is the quality of service provided and then value for money.

Feel free to PM me the the details of you want an offline opinion


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 4:10 pm
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thanks Frank - may do that, depending on what we hear back

Ultimately, I agree with you on vfm but the bit that pisses me off is the apparent burying of this information deep in the T&C if anywhere at all, especially if it's true that users could notify their phone provider and somehow have it waived if they know to do so

It may turn out to have been written on the top of the box the macine came in, or on page 1 of the instructions.  If so, well fair(ish) enough though I think it's a bloody fishy way to run this sort of service


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 4:22 pm
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It is certainly highly unusual, I have never heard of alarms being routed through premium rate numbers before.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 4:28 pm
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I can't see how security has anything to do with it... a phone number is a phone number regardless of the cost of premuim vs standard, or free call 0800 numbers and the like.

The security is the responder verifying that the caller is genuine and not a prank/scam call.


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 4:38 pm
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is charging at aroud £3 per minute for the “alarm” call to their control centre

that users* should register the number with their phone company to avoid these charges.

I'm not sure those things amount to a premium number. You can't (AFAIK) register a premium number with a coms provider to avoid costs because as you say, they're charged at the far end and not by your supplier.

What is the number? is it some sort of non geographic such as an 033 which your telephone provider charges extra for?


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 4:59 pm
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dunno yet db - just that it seems to cost aroud £30 per 10 minute call


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 5:34 pm
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Like franksinatra it’s an industry I work in and agree that there is no technical reason and would look into the total cost of the system your mil has to see if it’s providing the right level of need and is value for money


 
Posted : 20/07/2023 5:53 pm
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It’s to discourage random idiots from prank calling the number and tying up the line required for emergency calls.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 3:37 am
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It’s to discourage random idiots from prank calling the number and tying up the line required for emergency calls.

that would only be an issue if it’s a published number. This is presumably a number automatically dialled by a piece of equipment.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:37 am
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It’s to discourage random idiots from prank calling the number and tying up the line required for emergency calls.

That’s not correct. As said above, incoming lines are not published.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 6:44 am

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