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And if it’s carrying several tons? It’d be a nonsense to have separate limits for laden / unladen goods vehicles, it’d be impossible to police.
But that's the thing people like yourself don't get. Most standard transits won't even carry anyehere near a ton legally mine include. You could easily have the same weight in a 7 seat toerag/disco or galaxy.
a collection of drivers with virtually no knowledge of road rules.
The number of times I hear this observation on these threads just reinforces my strong belief that all drivers should have periodic retests. Maybe once every five years or so.
In any other walk of life, if you are in charge of a piece of machinery that was responsible for 170,993 injuries a year - 24,831 of which were serious and 1793 were fatal (RRCGB 2017 figures) - then you'd need regular re-certification to demonstrate you knew how to operate it safely. But cars? Nah. Pass a test at 17 and you're still good 60 years later. Going to a different country where the road rules are different? Pfft you'll be fine, just wing it.
In any other walk of life, if you are in charge of a piece of machinery
That reminds me, my npors 360 card has run out....after Just 2 years!
The number of times I hear this observation on these threads just reinforces my strong belief that all drivers should have periodic retests. Maybe once every five years or so.
+1
Even if it was just a thing for new licenses to begin with, then rolled out across the population I reckon it'd make some serious cash for the government.
The drivers from overseas thing is also interesting - can live here for a year with no compuction to do anything, then go for a holiday, come back and start again.
The number of times I hear this observation on these threads just reinforces my strong belief that all drivers should have periodic retests. Maybe once every five years or so.
Its a valid point and one where once I used to think “for the over 60’s” but now conclude “everyone, regardless of age, if they hold a valid driving license”
And also I used to think “FOC tests” but now think it ought to be a mandatory £250, which makes it a) a commitment to continue driving and b) expensive enough for the driver to think about what they are actually paying for.
🤷♂️
Trouble is that such a law could be political suicide unless it was spun very carefully.
A £250 charge on top is a laudable idea, but the general public wouldn't stand for it. War on motorists. Punishing the poor. etc etc
Perhaps that part can wait till autonomous vehicles are more commonplace on the road?
do they teach basic maths e.g. 5 miles through a village at 30 mph vs 5 miles through a village at 40 mph? Saves a whole 2.5 minutes - wow.
If I was sat in stationary traffic, would I still be committing an offence using my hand held device if the engine isn't running...for example, on auto stop/start?
Hypothetical question, just wondering how the law addresses it.
As I understand it, you have to be parked up in a safe place with the engine switched off
'Safe place'
Makes sense otherwise anyone could just manually switch the engine off at lights etc.
Regarding the regular re-tests, I've long been an advocate.
Firstly, because it reinforces the idea that driving is a privelege rather than a right; to be earned and respected.
Secondly, I notice that a few people on here have mentioned how going on a SAC makes them "calm down" and think more about their driving - a regular dose of this must be good all ways round, no?
That in addition to other good reasons, above...
Most standard transits won’t even carry anyehere near a ton legally mine include
That's bollocks but go on.
The maximum payload ratings at 3.5 tonnes for each Ford Transit body size are as follows:
FWD L2H2 panel van: 1,446kg (1,393 kg with the automatic gearbox)
FWD L3H2 panel van: 1,366kg (1,313kg with the automatic gearbox)
RWD L2H2 panel van: 1,319kg
RWD L3H3 panel van: 1,256kg
RWD L4H3 panel van: 1,111kg
AWD L2H2 panel van: 1,216kg
AWD L3H2 panel van: 1,153kg
FWD L2H2 DCiV: 1,289kg
FWD L3H2 DCiV: 1,205kg (1,152kg with automatic gearbox)
RWD L2H2 DCiV: 1,159kg
RWD L3H2 DCiV: 1,095kg
RWD L4H3 DCiV: 947kg
AWD L2H2 DCiV: 1,059kg
AWD L3H2 DCiV: 992kg
The A75 going west from Dumfries actually does appear to have two sets of those! There are two sets of lights in/out of a village which serve no purpose, but always go red if you trigger the sign before them
Yeah Springholm (don't think it's crocketford). All they do is stop you, and vehicles behind you, they don't effect oncoming traffic.
gobuchul Member
Most standard transits won’t even carry anyehere near a ton legally mine includeThat’s bollocks but go on.
The maximum payload ratings at 3.5 tonnes for each Ford Transit body size are as follows:
FWD L2H2 panel van: 1,446kg (1,393 kg with the automatic gearbox)
FWD L3H2 panel van: 1,366kg (1,313kg with the automatic gearbox)
RWD L2H2 panel van: 1,319kg
RWD L3H3 panel van: 1,256kg
RWD L4H3 panel van: 1,111kg
AWD L2H2 panel van: 1,216kg
AWD L3H2 panel van: 1,153kg
FWD L2H2 DCiV: 1,289kg
FWD L3H2 DCiV: 1,205kg (1,152kg with automatic gearbox)
RWD L2H2 DCiV: 1,159kg
RWD L3H2 DCiV: 1,095kg
RWD L4H3 DCiV: 947kg
AWD L2H2 DCiV: 1,059kg
AWD L3H2 DCiV: 992kg
You are aware that you also need to put people and fuel in the van too aren't you??
Beside the point - put 1000kg of fibreglass, insulation, windows and a bed in one of the above vans and suddenly it's capable of doing car speeds...
As I understand it, you have to be parked up in a safe place with the engine switched off
Mate got done for holding his phone whilst sitting in a lay-by on the A34 whilst his wife was outside having a wee, he hadn’t turned his engine off.
It was just after the Law changed, maybe Plod we’re trying to be all effective back then because these days I see folks sitting in queues on the M25 happily handling phones whilst stationary with their engines on. Mind you there isn’t a Plod in sight 🤷♂️
do they teach basic maths e.g. 5 miles through a village at 30 mph vs 5 miles through a village at 40 mph? Saves a whole 2.5 minutes – wow.
Might be at the same school where people are taught that villages are typically 5 miles in diameter.
I see folks sitting in queues on the M25 happily handling phones whilst stationary with their engines on
Same on the M1 in the roadworks in stop / start traffic. They get very upset when you toot at them. And what is it with people with those stupid vape things? Why can't they put them down between sucks? Why is filling your car with fog a good idea? Even Homer Simpson realised that.
a few people on here have mentioned how going on a SAC makes them “calm down” and think more about their driving – a regular dose of this must be good all ways round, no?
My thoughts exactly after doing SAC, I think every driver should do it at least once
My apologies for not being clearer, what I'd call a standard transit is one that is a h1, you don't list a single one of those. Something that is rated at 750 kg payload which a hell of a lot are, I believe shouldn't be restricted the way the bigger vans are.
I was 'enrolled' on a Speed Awareness course a few years back now.
First, I got the standard issue, incredibly patronising letter from the local plod department, detailing how naughty I had been. I couldn't really remember being naughty, and it had been a Sunday, and it was just entering a 30 limit... and maybe I just resented the way I was spoken to and the fact that'd I'd been stupid and got caught.
The course itself was well presented and insightful, and I genuinely think it made me a better driver. Not through what it taught me, but purely because it made me think more about my own actions and inspired me to review my own behaviours, and that's something I continue to do several years later.
wrightyson
Member
My apologies for not being clearer, what I’d call a standard transit is one that is a h1, you don’t list a single one of those. Something that is rated at 750 kg payload which a hell of a lot are, I believe shouldn’t be restricted the way the bigger vans are.
I was led to believe that the lower speed limit reflected the piss-poor way that vans tend to be loaded. This made some sense to me, but I now can’t find a single article to back it up!
I didn't know that about reactive traffic lights that can stop you like that, that's ace.
Also, if you didn't get to this point in the phones chat without thinking "what a bloody awful law" I'm surprised. Should never have made it through committee in this form.
I_did_dab
Subscriber
do they teach basic maths e.g. 5 miles through a village at 30 mph vs 5 miles through a village at 40 mph? Saves a whole 2.5 minutes – wow.
Nah, sounds like a good idea but a lot of people will think "2.5 minutes, that's loads!"
I went four years ago. Wrote a somewhart ar$y thing about the experience: https://pickled-hedgehog.com/?p=3154
However I STILL do that 'tarmac and tyres' thing. And occasionally narrate my own driving. To be fair with more swearing than during the exercise on the course 🙂
@Alex, that was a good read. I like the way you write.
I too marked my card on my course. At one point early on we were all asked whether we thought ourselves average drivers, above average or below. I said above average (as did most others, somewhat predictably). "Ah," proclaimed the instructor with a barely contained hint of glee, "that means you're overconfident!" I pointed out that no it didn't, rather that I thought that the "average driver" was a ****ing moron and if I thought I were an average driver then I'd either take further tuition or hand in my licence. It kinda went downhill a bit after that.
I was led to believe that the lower speed limit reflected the piss-poor way that vans tend to be loaded. This made some sense to me, but I now can’t find a single article to back it up!
I have a dim recollection of it partly being down to the lack of crash test requirements but more likely the drum brakes and potential momentum with a load on plus the terrible handling of early vans.
They could be awful empty too. A 1992 Ford Escort van I was once unlucky enough to drive for a few years had an alarming tendency to lock up and slide at the slightest hint of heavy breaking if empty.
Clearly modern commercial vehicles are way better but limits are unlikely to go up in the same way the NSL for cars isn’t likely to increase, despite being a lot better than a Ford Anglia.
To help with some points raised:
It’s odd that they didn’t have the /// then // then / 30mph warning signs coming into the village since a 60mph to 30mph drop is quite a large speed change.
The Government Traffic Signs manual chapter 3, "“Countdown” signs giving advance indication of a change in the speed limit are not prescribed and must not be used, unless they have been authorised by the national authority. In England, there is a clear policy not to authorise these signs." (but I can think of a few)
I still think the 60mph limit for vans on proper dual carriageways is hugely outdated
T'was changed on single carriageways for LGVs (>7.5T) from 40 to 50mph, and from 50 to 60mph on dual carriageways in April 2015, so increases can be made
I did a course, and the only thing I learned is that the reason you don’t always (or even usually) get repeaters in a 20 is because with traffic calming it’s not required.
Repeater signs aren't required in 20s. The speed humps appeared because many years ago ACPO (the old Association of Chief Police Officers, now NPCC) said that police wouldn't enforce 20s, (EDIT) which didn't have either traffic-calming or repeater signs(/EDIT)
I got done for speeding in Jedburgh many years back. Approaching from the South there was a fast corner, then the 30mph signs. Inevitably, I didn't slow down fast enough and was done for doing 40mph. It was fair enough and I didn't grumble(much). There are now countdown markers before the corner though.
Nah, sounds like a good idea but a lot of people will think “2.5 minutes, that’s loads!”
& at the risk of playing Devil's advocate: If you do that each way on your commute that's 25 mintes a week - 21 hours a year or nearly an extra day of your life spent driving.
Also. Plenty of cycle commuters would whinge about having to follow a cycle path which took them 2.5 minutes longer than a direct road. Human nature innit?
"Also. Plenty of cycle commuters would whinge about having to follow a cycle path which took them 2.5 minutes longer than a direct road. Human nature innit?"
Not sure it's comparable when when it's 2.5 minutes of effort rather than 2.5 minutes of sitting in a chair
Not sure it’s comparable when when it’s 2.5 minutes of effort rather than 2.5 minutes of sitting in a chair
If you choose to commute by bike (& I do) then you accept that it is going to involve a bit of effort. That is partly the point.