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TheGeneralist....
No problem with your questions..
I’ve been with my company 28 years, and close to but not at retirement... and the way retirement age keeps changing I may never get there 😉
I would agree a lot of companies won’t offer enhanced pay outs, but some will and talk above of 2 years cash in pocket shows it is possible even now.
TBH my son has really enjoyed the delivery work - he loves driving, so this is all fairly local, with some nice country lanes - he has a new shape Fabia 109PS Monto Carlo, so is a nice motor. Needs the job to pay for insurance.
I said look for more hours and something in a supermarket, or doing local deliveries. He was only doing weekends before lockdown, then had to ut it on hold as he has Type 1 and was told to be careful, but is back out doing upto 5 hours a night delivering.
He probably needs a re-think about career at the moment - he ideally wants to be on the Techy side of IT (building kit/networking etc), not in a call centre (which can't be fun from home, with no proper training or supervision).
I think redundancy is taxable above £30k but I doubt many will get anywhere near that. Enhanced redundancies and early retirement packages disappeared in the early noughties. I remember people leaving my Michelin plant with £30k and early retirement, for me over the years the pay in lieu has been a lot more than the actual redundancy payments.
Had the news via conference call on Monday that my whole branch is being made redundant by the end of October.
We knew it was coming so it wasn't a big shock but still not nice to hear it for real. We're due to start the process next week but a massive row has broken out between the company and the Union over what they want to pay us. We have a massively inflated redundancy package, over double the legal minimum, and the company is trying to base it all on furlough pay which is against the rules. Could get nasty! The difference between the company's figure and the Union's one for me is over £3k plus a month's wage so it's going to get nasty as there's over 1100 of us being cut loose. Will find out more on my meeting next week sometime but there's strong talk of those meetings being postponed until it's all sorted out as people are refusing to sign anything until the position is clarified.
Having been under redundancy consultation since March, I found out I’m staying for the moment. Good luck everybody.
Nice one Dan, of two people I know in your industry a Virgin Senior Steward and an EasyJet Pilot have both lost thier jobs.
Good luck reluctantjumper. Its a tough horrible process so try to keep you head out of the arguments, albeit you have to look after yourself.
In the news today is reported 650,000 job losses to date and its not done yet. Jeez. 🙁
Well the shit has really hit the fan with my redundancy!
The company are trying to pay us the furlough rate for our notice periods (mine's 12 weeks) and base any calculations on the furlough pay rate whereas the rules clearly state that both should be based on your 12 week average from the last 12 weeks you worked. The union are contesting it and calling for it all to be paused while the investigations are being done. If this pause happens and goes on for more than a fortnight then a lot of us will have our notice periods fall into November where there won't be any furlough pay for the company to fall back on.
The other issue rearing it's head is that the company is hinting that anyone with another job may forego their redundancy pay if it can be proved that they are no longer their main employer. I should be ok as I've kept my second job, that the company agreed to me taking in writing, to 2-3 days a week but others have been doing full-time work, again with the company's knowledge.
Something tells me this is going to get very messy.
Kryton - the 650,000 increase in unemployment is just the start; furlough is masking the true position and, as it unwinds, the grim reality will become apparent.
Deferred redundancies are now turning into reality.
Of course. One thing Furlough proved to a lot companies was who it was they could do without.
UK banks fear up to 800,000 firms employing 3 million could go bust in the next year if they cannot defer repayments on government-backed loans.
That's a scary comment.
Here's the article which follows it https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53424755
One thing Furlough proved to a lot companies was who it was they could do without.
But to be fair, if you shut down whole industries overnight, lots of companies can do without most of their workforces (in the short term).
Quite - see airlines. I was referring to others - for example the construction industries discuss herein - who will consolidate thier workforces due to load but in some cases bloated companies use this as the perfect excuse to measure their resource optimisation.
And companies, in the face of a flat or declining economy have to make tough decisions to save both the business and the remaining workforce. This is just the start of the period of pain until Xmas , once furlough reduces it will be a bloodbath. THEN wait for the wallop of corporate tax to pay for the schemes, we're in a massive hole right now.
Well, I've just applied for 2 what appear to be perfect jobs. Both out of the oil industry and both back in Wales which is where we want to go. If by some absolute fluke I got one I could potentially take the pay off and start a new job in January... Good luck folks.
One thing Furlough proved to a lot companies was who it was they could do without.
Way too simplistic. There are many businesses that went into mothball mode and kept the bare minimum on so that when they opened up again things would not take too long to get back up and running. We (private school) kept a groundsman on so it didn't become a jungle but furloughed the PE staff, a bunch of other teachers as well as most of the marketing and admissions bods. As much as I love James (said groundsman) when it all becomes a bit more normal again he won't be the one making it happen.
I think you can extrapolate that to the wider economy too. Key workers were key workers for a nation in lockdown but let's not overstate the role they will play in getting the economy back off it's knees.
Ironically I'm just finalising a negotiated exit, definitely not a redundancy because my employer has committed to no redundancies, it's just that my role is going away and they're giving me coincidentally the same package as they would have if they were making me redundant, which they're definitely not. Obviously the timing's disastrous, but it comes off the back of changes in working that I was never going to be happy with or for that matter really good at, so, still a good outcome.
I know this is daft, but, I was made redundant in the middle of the financial crisis and for all it was a shit time due to pay freezes, loss of job confidence, lots of redundancies in my field... It was also kind of nice to have safety in numbers. Like, yes it'd be better if there weren't like 500 people applying for every job, but at least nobody's going to think it's weird that I'm unemployed.
Norhwind, sorry to hear that. I though you were in faculties in a Uni?
It's a rough time. I was furloughed in March, put in the redundancy pool in May and after 30 days consultation given my notice. This October would of seen me with 14 years service. Luckily I've found a new role with a better package.
All I can say if you find yourself in a similar position is put the word out with friends and ex-colleagues that you're looking for work.
It's fine to have low days, I was up and down like a yo-yo.
Good luck out there folks.
So yesterday was a tough day - my Birthday and 3rd anniversary of my Mom passing away and 12 months on from when I attempted suicide.
If that wasn't bad enough I had a call saying I had my redundancy score and appraisal.....
The appraisal was pretty much a character assassination - not being a team player, not wanting to socialize - all symptoms and signs of depression - which my line manager knows about (including the suicide attempt), I'm absolutely broken today.
Financial performance of my projects was also shredded - bearing in mind the rates I have to use with the client are in a framework and less favourable - I have 2 choices 1) crap report/output and more profit or 2) decent report/output lower profit. I usually go with 2 because I hate producing crap work.
After 16 years of hard work and service I didn't realize how little I was valued - I have no idea how to process this, I can't even bring myself to go out on the bike as my head is completely mashed, not slept, feel ruined......
Sorry for the rant.
My missus is being messed about by her mickey mouse company.
Lot of staff got put on furlough, but she worked through it all and took on another persons role (Who was furloughed).
She's the only Management Accountant in her department, but her job is under review for redundancy. The firm has been very secret about it all and hasn't formally stated any good reason.
At first they said there's no work, but after she questioned the furlough situation, they changed their tune. Now they say it's a money issue and now the other person who she was covering for has been put into the redundancy pool (after my wife asked why the furloughed person's job wasn't up for review).
Current situation is, she's being put into a pool for an Accounts Assistant role... that comes with about an 8k pay drop and is a backwards step in her career. She'd rather take redundancy, but the wording of their emails were almost like they wanted her to put her foot in it with her replies (effectively forfeiting her redundancy if she refused the lesser role).
Truth be told, she should have left years ago as it was a sinking ship well before covid.
@dirkpitt74 - never feel bad about delivering quality over crap, that's on them not you.
As for the rest, I presume it'll feel raw for a while, but things can and will move on. I'm sure others will be along here shortly to back this up too.
So then, the old CV. I’m 20 plus years out of date - where can I find the best CV writing guidance to make a start?
We've had 15% made redundant, the rest of the firm are having to take an 8-12% paycut from the 7th August. Work wise we're down 65% compared to this time last year.
I can suffer it as I've no dependants/significant outgoings but some of the younger lads with kids etc are ****ed
How timely. My wife was informed yesterday (although we knew it was likely), told her redundancy package (statutory), that someone would collect her laptop today and please don't turn up for work any more.
Thanks, bye, you're out. Good luck Dirkpitt seems a fairly brutal process.
Hi @scamperjenkins,
If you PM me you email address i can send a copy of my CV, it is IT focused (not that i know what im doing). But might be a good starting point for you.
@Kryton57 sounds about right, but sorry to hear it.
No idea how this is going to pan out over the next few days.....
Seems like yesterday was the day for it - my wife also made redundant from a consulting engineers. In total they're at about 25% headcount reduction, but offsetting this by part-timing some people, unfortunately despite volunteering they didn't take wife up on that. It's a pity, as she liked the company and the people, but once the process started attitudes changed rapidly and I can see a lot of those who remained will be jumping ship at the next available opportunity.
Covid is not totally to blame, it appears, as they've had profitability issues before this - market rates are rock bottom and they're still being undercut on tenders.
It's statutory payoff and she'll be left furloughed until her notice period runs out, but there's a squabble over holiday allowances which needs to be resolved before we know how finances look.
It's far from the end of the world - we'll be ok on my salary for a period, especially as we'll not have childcare and commuting costs which eats up a huge chunk of income, plus we'll have a lot more family time through August and when eldest starts school in September. We fortunately had tried to limit our expenditure to allow for such an event, kept the mortgage a lot lower than than the banks were willing to offer at the expense of a smaller house in a very modest (ahem) area etc, but it looks like a painful time for anyone looking for work in construction. A few job leads she had through contacts in the last few weeks have also been frozen.
Well as of Friday I shall no longer be employed........
After the character assassination and mud-slinging of last week I had a long hard think over the weekend.
I hadn't heard from my manager or HR in response to the comments I issued against the afore mentioned, so I took the initiative and called my manager.
I decided that I'd made my point and defended myself and that I wholeheartedly disagreed with their assessment of me and that instead of dragging it out with HR 'trying' to find alternative positions that don't exist and to put the other two lads out of their misery I'd take the redundancy as it was obvious I wasn't wanted or respected by my team and company.
I did this for two reasons - 1st was so that I 'took some power back' and went out on my terms, 2nd it also meant that I could take advantage of getting the remainder of the consultation period Tax Free.
So having spoken to HR today and discussed final package etc. providing I sign the letter and get it back to them before midday tomorrow I can get it all paid and leave on Friday.
IT will send a courier to get my laptop and phone and I just need to book to go into the office and collect the last of my stuff in my locker that I didn't get before Lockdown.
Feeling quite liberated at the moment.
Good for you! Mrs K refused to ask any questions in the final consultation on the basis that "what was the point" but took the whole hour to string those words our so she could waste their time.
He final perspective is she'd never work there again, and at least she's the satisfaction of costing them several months Salary to move her career onward for her.
She didn't have to sign a letter though, just accept her redundancy notice, which came with an extra para that any challenges would now be taken outside of the Consultation process. She's three months paid leave now, and is starting to receive interest from employers.
BTW the company who they were going to buy has shed 30% of its workforce, did you read that?
Hadn't heard that about the other company - they'll be a good fit....
To be honest the signing is more to sign off that the package is what we've agreed on the phone today.
Good luck to Mrs K - hope she finds something in the near future.
I have no idea what I'm going to do next tbh - will be looking outside of Construction that's for sure. Might also put my coaching & guiding qual to use too.
I just need to book to go into the office and collect the last of my stuff in my locker that I didn’t get before Lockdown.
Do you need the stuff from your locker? Unless there was some serious sentimental or cash value in the items, I'd seriously consider not going back for them.
Feeling quite liberated at the moment.
Make sure you take the time to enjoy it before getting back on the merry go round.
Good luck!
Yeah I have some text books and regulations that are mine which I want back.
Luckily you have to book to go into the office now so there won't be many people in.
In my career I went through the process 5 times, 3 times losing my job in 30 years. First time it was hard - I'd just got married / bought a house. But in most cases came out of it pretty well as a person and career wise. The difference now is that given the impact of Covid on the economy, it's unprecedented and can't see it recovering for a while - plus the world of work will be very different in the future. It would be worth taking stock, looking at your motives, maybe learn some new stuff or even change careers. With Brexit coming along, the UK's going to be hit doubly-hard and if I was in the same position say 20 years ago, I'd probably go abroad or look at sectors that are a bit more resilient as the job market is going to be very competitive.
I had to do the 'collecting my stuff' trip this morning, also dropped off my uniform and other branded stuff too. Officially leaving on the 31st August with a great package (nearly a year's wages!) after 12 years there. Sad to leave the building for the last time but looking to the future now. Just got to decide what direction to move in now and when. Tempted to use some of my package to allow me to do a bit of 'me' time, maybe learn something new and possibly do some retraining. Plenty to think about and I'm luck that I have a part-time job I can scale up or down if I need to (temporary contract of 7.5 hrs but currently doing 3 days a week). Once I've had a good think about things I'll probably ask in here for advice etc.
Good luck to everyone having their life changed by all of this.
Sorry to hear that dirkpitt74 - but glad you’ve taken some control of the situation - that’s a very healthy move. To be honest I think the business is one it’s better to be out of - I think they could end up doing the same shit in another 3 months. Very best of luck moving forward.
On my 10 days consultation period at the moment may be able to keep a part time position but my job is already low paid so halving my hours is going to be very difficult and only been in the job 18 months so won't get any pay out if I leave...
so many companies going bust or getting rid of workers at all grades, and one may be interrelated to the next, either buying or selling to each other,or skilled generations of craftsmen and semi skilled workers,just like the 70,s and 80,s back again but nowadays more people have debts they need to work to pay off.
All this leads to shops and restaurants closing down, resulting in more unemployed people.
over the years been made redundant, horrible,
Been self employed , crap
left a job i hated, great,
left a job i loved for a better job, that turned out the pits and got sacked,
went self employed, liked it,
got a job i liked and got the offer of being tuped, and left,
and now back to being self employed with customers in short supply,
and a global pandemic scaring the shit out of them.
I’m one of the 13% facing redundancy from a National organisation enTrusted with the nation’s old houses and countryside.
My little department is closing completely and 35 years of school trips and experience will be lost.
I’m gutted about the actual centre I work at as it will be greatly missed by many people.
I should be ok, by the time the consultation period is over and notice is served then I should be paid 80% until mid October then am expecting about 10months pay. Can’t complain about that really.
Got my first consultation interview tomorrow but not expecting much. We’re all being written out of the organisation.
Just found out about a £1500 Welsh gov grant for people who have been made redundant to retrain, update and upskill quals so that’s a chance to up some quals on a personal level while keeping my redundancy for paying the bills.
Just got to work out what I want to do now...
i was disposed off two weeks ago. 18 months of hitting targets,doing £4.5m in a year meant nothing.
I was the only person on the team there less than 2 years, easy to get rid of me without any process cos the law is an ass and allows it.
Way too simplistic. There are many businesses that went into mothball mode and kept the bare minimum on so that when they opened up again things would not take too long to get back up and running.
True of where I work, I was off for three months, but my supervisor had been back for nine weeks before I returned, and I was astonished at how busy the place was! The company is looking to expand our team by another five people, plus they’re looking to take on some more local people to work on one particular contract, which will require 24-hour staffing, so that’s around Westbury, Wiltshire. Zero chance I’d change rôles, that’s for sure. 😜
Having said that, the whole Covid shitstorm is clearly screwing up huge sections of commerce, and not just here, whole global supply chains and businesses with multinational interests are clearly getting hammered, with all that entails for workforces everywhere.
I could retire, but, tbh, while I’m physically able to do the job, I like what I’m doing, and I’m better paid now than for years, plus the management are among the best I’ve ever worked for, I’m going to take advantage of the situation. Which I wasn’t confident about four months ago, that’s for certain!
My very, very best wishes to everyone being affected by this, and good luck to you all.
My wife is being made redundant. She works for a charity providing lunch clubs to old people and they cant run at the moment and the charity cant afford to support them any more. She had only been there 6 months.
She has a choice between voluntary redundancy with a small payout (6 weeks pay) or see what the result of the consultation is which will be redundancy with no pay, so she has applied for voluntary. Currently waiting for the consultation to end and then see what dates she gets given to leave.
meant nothing.
Im afraid the redundancy process per se and the panic that’s going through many industries right now are making this a fast, emotionless process at the employer end for most. Some will get scarred - I know now of 5-6 people at my wife’s company that will never go back, and are happy to spread the word about how poorly people are treated. It’s not a modern phenomenon, I was made redundant in 1992 and that was the same; like most business decisions it’s about money not people and your name will likely be forgotten before you’ve even left. In fact my wife was told last Wednesday, 3 days after everyone else because they’d forgotten about her.
I wonder if the scale of this will change peoples attitudes and loyalty to work.
Whilst the majority of these redundancies could be seen as companies adopting survival strategies, a few as trying to maximise profits in a context that means people aren't watching to closely, some are just plain gob smacking.
11 000 people, cut 15% so 1650. Assume an average cost of £40 000 per employee, so they save £66 000 000 or £66 000k per year
Have a look at these accounts and work out how long the organisation could continue paying full saleries to those people whislt no more than scratching the surface of the immense wealth of the organisation with no selling of property assets:
I make it about 20 years, if I've corectly understood the balance sheet (I've run a couple of my own businesses).
Also interestin that the director general gets £191 000 a yeart and this lot:
get about - a sum I can't be sure enough of to post - a year each if my Googling is right for doing I'm not sure quite what but given their other engagements probably not much.
Well that's it - everything handed back and locker cleared.
Felt odd walking out (well once I found my way out with the new COVID one way system.....) for the last time, almost a sense of relief.
Met up with one of the lads I've worked with since I started there for a coffee - felt good to have a chat.
Was a bit pissed at my line manager though as he showed me pictures of his new 'toy' - 10 yo Aston Martin V8 vantage.......
I've lost my job and he's spunked more than what my redundancy package is on a weekend car........
Yes I'm better off out of it!!!
I was about to ask if you worked for Portibello Plumbers....
Was a bit pissed at my line manager though as he showed me pictures of his new ‘toy’ – 10 yo Aston Martin V8 vantage
What a total cock.
Today on national news
1500 jobs @ LGH HOTELS.
300 @ RSA
1300 @ TRAVELEX
11O @ Wetherspoons head offices
Plus probably lots of smaller companies going bust the government will have to pay out redundancy pay for, going to be very quiet commutes nearer christmas
Me and my colleague had our interviews today, find out who gets the job tomorrow...
90% sure it's going to be him as he's a lot more experienced and I've been there less than 2 years.
Having been a board director of a company that was acquired 20 months ago I can say wholeheartedly that I'm so glad that I'm not in the position that my new board is now in.
Work is uncertain, and future workload is even more uncertain. If I was in my previous position by now I'd probably have half a million of business overdraft personally linked to me and would be in the process of losing my flat.
Having just become a board director of my former company in 2008 and then gone through that recession, having had to force my previous board members to take redundancy reviews seriously and to not just stockpile their favourites, it's a shit place to be. I had to tell 8 people they were being made redundant because "my betters" didn't want to do it. How can I put it, it was shit.
No one in decent businesses wants to make people redundant. It's a loss of skills and enthusiasm and future potential. But in the end the management's responsibility is to ensure that the business continues, what other options do they have?