You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Doubt they have the man power to check every car
Would have thought the winner would be pretty high up the testing priority list though?
I wonder if Merc were running Hamiltons car lower than Russells and thats why Russell struggled all weekend with it.
Max's car was tested - the top 4 were, but the two heaviest drivers in two of the heaviest cars (in the top- 4) were found to have excess wear on the plank...
WRT to Russel - maybe, but according to the stats, Russel is almost 10kg lighter than Hamilton, despite being taller.
My guess is that the cars were set for the right height for each drivers weight, but the excessive bumpiness caused increased wear to the heavier car/driver which was also driving faster (more downforce) and that had they been able to do more setup, they would've noticed the excess wear and raised the height a little.
Doubt they have the man power to check every car in the time frame, and also I don’t think they want to DQ half the field!
They tested one car from each of the top four teams. Even though Hamilton and Leclerc were disqualified, they didn't test the other cars from those teams. They obviously just don't have the time to test every car, it wouldn't have just been the planks they checked, they would have gone over a whole lot of stuff.
Daffy
Full MemberMax’s car was tested – the top 4 were, but the two heaviest drivers in two of the heaviest cars (in the top- 4) were found to have excess wear on the plank…
Yep exactly. Would have been interesting to know if Sainz and Russells cars were legal and their poor pace was due to them running more ride height (or were they just having poor weekends?)
(edit - from AMuS:)
Russell and Sainz with different set-up Verstappen's Red Bull and Norris' McLaren passed the test. Hamilton's Mercedes and Leclerc's Ferrari failed. At the two rear mounting holes, the thickness of the board was less than nine millimeters. Being a black-and-white decision, the teams accepted the verdict. George Russell and Carlos Sainz got off with a black eye. Possibly only because they were not checked. It may also have been the luck of other drivers from other teams. However, Russell and Sainz also drove with a slightly different set-up than their stable rivals. They had slightly more ground clearance on the rear axle. The choice was made based on personal preference and not out of fear of breaking the rules. Mercedes and Ferrari each took a little more risk with one of their cars. When a lot of unfortunate circumstances come together, you can fall flat on your face.
Nice shot here from f1technical, obv you'd need a full slowmo to be conclusive
Max really is a petulant little toad.
Nice shot here from f1technical, obv you’d need a full slowmo to be conclusive
Seen that photo all over X today (along with the unbiased, reasoned, sensible debate! 🤣 ).
Merc is on a wider line and flatter so hardly a conclusive photo.
Anyway rules is rules, but still good to see progress.
Odd the way Lando dropped away though. Thought he'd hold on to 2nd (in the race).
Max really is a petulant little toad.
Is this regarding something specific or just a general observation?
Merc is on a wider line and flatter so hardly a conclusive photo.
This. The RB is much further up the curb so there's bound to be more height beneath the car.
It's about the continual radio tantrums while driving.
It would be interesting to know how worn they were. We they fractions too worn, or by a long way. Whilst accepting the DQ is the right decision was the excess wear enough to give a measurable performance. Have Mercedes started to turn the corner with genuine pace or was it flatter by the rule infringement
Have Mercedes started to turn the corner with genuine pace or was it flatter by the rule infringement
Merc, mclaren and to some extent ferrari seem to compete for "best of the rest" depending on circuit and track temp - though it seems ferrari struggle most with tyres over a full race (and with strategy). And remember the gap to red bull was mainly down to max struggling with the brakes - in the sprint he pulled a massive gap in a couple of laps so that's more representative of the difference in pace
The DQ is harsh but thems the rules. Rather than any tweak to scrutineering I'm wondering if the sprint weekend format will evolve to allow more changes between the end of the sprint and the start of the GP.
To me Mercedes and McLaren are making genuine progress. And the new floor on the Merc makes the car a hybrid of '23 and '24 ideas so won't be working optimally.
Ferrari - just don't know about them. They're baffling in their approach. Can't think of any major upgrade they've bought this season.
Personally - Sprint weekends need binning. They dilute what F1 is about. But if they insist on keeping them set-up changes must be allowed after FP1.
sharkbait
This. The RB is much further up the curb so there’s bound to be more height beneath the car.
Well it's just a bit of fun, like I said a slowed down video would be needed to draw any solid conclusions because it could be mid-rebound at the exact moment the pic was taken.
However your comment makes me think you're looking at the wrong thing in the pic.
Ignore the ground completely- look at the relative positions of the bottom of the diffuser and bottom of the tyres compared to the other two cars. The RB floor looks about an inch higher. In fact the left side of the diffuser on the merc & ferrari is lower than the left tyre 🙂
Oooh - there's beef on Twitter! Turns our Checo cut T6 26 times during the race!...
https://twitter.com/protor04/status/1717504322450178529?s=12&t=EQoHg-RGok071Fjc15ZHKw
https://twitter.com/protor04/status/1717504379693965312?s=12&t=EQoHg-RGok071Fjc15ZHKw
How can you determine a track limits breach from an onboard camera? All 4 wheels have to completely cross the white line.
FIA have admitted they had their CCTV monitor in the wrong place - seems loads were cutting that corner.
I know this link below is PlanetF1 but original source is AMuS which is reputable...
https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-further-track-limits-scrutiny-us-grand-prix-footage
FIA have admitted they had their CCTV monitor in the wrong place
And if they knew it the teams knew it. Something radical needs doing about this track limits stupidity. It's motorsport not tennis.
simondbarnes
Full MemberHow can you determine a track limits breach from an onboard camera? All 4 wheels have to completely cross the white line.
Well you can't but you can have a good guess from a lot of those shots, for example:
You can't give penalties by guessing. If they have the camera in the wrong place then unfortunately not a lot that can be done.
Random plank checking doesn't seem very random....
https://twitter.com/wearetherace/status/1717528247896850848?t=PPLVGboJWQkUsuTg8NrhIw&s=19
You can’t give penalties by guessing. If they have the camera in the wrong place then unfortunately not a lot that can be done.
No - but if you make the rules you should make sure you police them properly. Getting cameras in the right place a fairly basic ask. The FIA are constantly proving they're not doing their job correctly.
Nothing can be done now, but easy to see why some drivers are a bit peeved.
If the FIA didn't have a strangle-hold on many of the circuits F1 visits I'm sure the teams and Liberty would go their own way.
Something radical needs doing about this track limits stupidity. It’s motorsport not tennis.
I don't have a problem with them saying "the track is defined by the white lines, leave it and you will be penalised". Enforcing that in a consistent, timely and accurate manner is what's important - it's daft to allow people to run off the track at one corner but not another. With all the tech available to F1 I'd be happy with an "anti drs" solution rather than time penalties - run off the track and there's an immediate penalty where you are capped at 80% throttle in the next "anti dra zone"
Random plank checking doesn’t seem very random….
Conspiracy theorist would say that leans towards anyone who "they" might not want to beat RB this year.
If You were of that state of mind you might suggest that it was to make certain Perez finished 2nd in the championship.
Conspiracy theorist would say that leans towards anyone who “they” might not want to beat RB this year.
Apparently they study the amount of bouncing a car is doing along with the distinct smell of the hot plank. As the Ferrari and Merc bounce a lot more than the others they are bound to be checked more.
Well I don’t know what that means but it sounds bad
One man's meat is another man's poison.
No – but if you make the rules you should make sure you police them properly.
I suggest a nice Indy style concrete wall precisely 1 max legal car width away from the white line 🙂
Or at least a big hard edged sausage curb that would present some risk of damaging the car
It's being reported that 0.05mm is how much Lewis's plank was worn by. They must have taken lots of measurements all over it before they found the very spot that was a tiny, tiny bit worn too much. 😉
It’s being reported that 0.05mm is how much Lewis’s plank was worn by.
This is a bit of a debacle, but Lewis's car was not compliant. The Merc team have accepted that, the DSQ was correct. The debacle was that the circuit rewarded running cars as low as possible and probably a lot more were illegal but weren't tested. Mark Hughes had a column about the Red Bull - they apparently raised their ride height to make sure they stayed compliant, hence the rest of the field closed the gap to them. Merc and Ferrari pushed it to the limit and went too far. What we don't know is how many other teams pushed it too far but got away with it.
I’d be interested to know how you measure a bit of plywood that accurately
I suggest a nice Indy style concrete wall precisely 1 max legal car width away from the white line 🙂
Or at least a big hard edged sausage curb that would present some risk of damaging the car
Isn't part of the issue that they run MotoGP races on the same tracks, so anything on the edges, sausages, rumble strips, etc would cause safety issues for for the riders?
Maybe some raiseable walls like you get at a bowling alley would work? 🤔
Embedded wires and transponders in the cars? It's not difficult. How many new cars already alert drivers when they are crossing a lane marking?
PlanetF1 is reporting that Der Speigel is reporting that the Audi F1 project is dead in the water.... https://www.planetf1.com/news/teams-warning-audi-f1-stillborn-project
It would be a neat way to solve the Andretti problem.
And VW bottle F1 again after making a hash of their Porsche entry.
I’d be interested to know how you measure a bit of plywood that accurately, although not that interested.
Ok so
A. The plank is made of resin not wood
B. The metal skid thingy is measured, not the resin ‘plank’.
Might be a bit hot in Mexico!…
https://twitter.com/dr_obbs/status/1717967951360385229?s=46&t=EQoHg-RGok071Fjc15ZHKw
Albon dragging the williams around the track. Why doesnt he get snapped up? Surely Aston, Mclaren and RB could pickup a young fast driver on the up
Albon is thriving outside the Red Bull environment - be amazed if he went back there.
That's quite the confidence interval for Williams. I assume it's a reflection of the gap between Albon and the other guy.
Albon is thriving outside the Red Bull environment – be amazed if he went back there.
Any driver on the grid would jump at a chance to get a seat in the fastest car. The reason Albon's not in the Red Bull is because Red Bull don't want him, not the other way around.
That’s not entirely true. There’s a post interview article somewhere where Albon carefully described how he was treated at RB and it isn’t good - very much so the “second” driver - even when spoken diplomatically.
There’s a post interview article somewhere where Albon carefully described how he was treated at RB and it isn’t good
No doubt, but the reason he's not driving for Red Bull is because they don't want him, not because he doesn't want them.
Albon dragging the williams around the track. Why doesnt he get snapped up?
I think he's negotiating a deal not unlike Norris, I think Williams have realised that fundamentally he's a pretty good driver, and are trying to persuade him* to stay to help to drag them back to the mid pack as opposed the first of the back-markers
*With guile and cunning no doubt, and not with piles of cash...as that never happens in F1
Albon knows he’s lucky to be in F1 at all, he’s not going to risk it all on Red when it could come up black. A long steady F1 career is better than no F1 seat.
He was kicked out of the Red Bull system at lower level and only bought into F1 after Ricciardo’s shock exit and there was no one else available.
Only someone who is happy being a number 2 would go to Red Bull as it stands and there aren’t many Irvine’s about now.
It's gonna be quite the recovery drive from Norris tomorrow
Isn’t part of the issue that they run MotoGP races on the same tracks, so anything on the edges, sausages, rumble strips, etc would cause safety issues for for the riders?<br /><br />
shouldn’t they be on the track aswell. I’m sure you could design something that bikes could fit through but not a car
That was an unexpected result. Perez not doing his chances of keeping his seat much good by getting outqualified by Ricciardo.
Yeah, quite a statement by Ricciardo. I’m quite enjoying the prospect of him potentially getting the Alpha Tauri to the flag ahead of the car he’ll be driving next year…
Also looking forward to seeing Norris’s recovery drive.
shouldn’t they be on the track aswell. I’m sure you could design something that bikes could fit through but not a car
But sometimes you need an escape route that won’t kill you. And sometimes you’re sliding across the tarmac at 100mph on your arse.
I don't know why, but I have a feeling that this will be a really good one
3 wide around the outside? Beginning to look desperate
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1718721145451540808
Good to see Max's class showing again, calling the red flag a joke. Great to see his is concerned about the crash/driver/damaged barrier.
Prat!
Agreed, he didn’t help himself with that comment - thought JP didn’t help either - hardly a conspiracy with that hole in the barrier!
Good race that - enjoyed it.
Ferrari again! 🤷♂️
How do the screw up time after time?
Really exciting stuff from Norris there
Good race. Danny Ric did a cracking job, possibly could have had Russell if he'd had a couple more laps. Following Sainz closely seemed to destroy his tyres as Hamilton still had good pace at the end.
Bit of a shame to see some people in the crowd acting stupidly. That tough guy beating up the two Ferrari supporters - what a manchild. Didn't seem as hard once that other guy came over and put him in a choke hold 😀
https://twitter.com/f1trollofficial/status/1718739380498747566
Bit of a shame to see some people in the crowd acting stupidly.
The hoards of folks leaving after Perez crashing? I mean, I can see that you're upset that the driver you hoped would get on the podium is out of the race, but presumably you've paid for a ticket? Weird behaviour.
Great race, watching Norris make his way through the field twice was a highlight, and Mercedes doing a decent job with strategy for a change. 3rd place for LeClerc seems like not much reward for putting it on pole, and great to see Danny Ricc driving the nuts of the Alpha Tauri, Neither Tsunoda or De Vries would've been capable of that.
I reckon though, that's going to be the crash that sees the end of Perez's career at RB, apparently the damage he did to the floor was pretty extensive, to do that, to drive that recklessly at the start of your home GP with 71 laps, makes zero sense. I though it was supposed to be Max that was impatient?
to drive that recklessly at the start of your home GP with 71 laps, makes zero sense.
Nope, no sense at all - Red Bull aren't asking him to win races. They just need him to trail in behind Max.
He was in control of his own track space and had loads of room to his left.
Bit of a shame to see some people in the crowd acting stupidly.
The hoards of folks leaving after Perez crashing? I mean, I can see that you’re upset that the driver you hoped would get on the podium is out of the race, but presumably you’ve paid for a ticket? Weird behaviour.
Well I just meant the fighting and excessive booing really.
If people are so invested in a single driver or team that they want to leave and waste their money, that's their problem. That's nothing new though, entire grandstands used to empty out if Ferrari crashed out in Italy. 🤷♂️
I'm not a huge Perez fan but I think he's just under too much pressure to get a result to make good decisions.
Even just looking at this weekend, he's on the back foot already after being behind Max every practice session. Then he gets out-qualified by his possible replacement Danny, in the car that's last in the constructors.
So when he got a good start and had a gap up ahead he just went full on hero or zero mode. Unfortunately he stuffed it and threw away a probable podium but you can see why it happened.
I’m not a huge Perez fan but I think he’s just under too much pressure to get a result to make good decisions.
But he's been in F1 donkeys years now - he knows what it's all about and should be doing better.
I'm sure he's knows that, but there are three issues...
1 he's fundamentally not as good as Verstappen.
2 he's been in F1 a long time, he knows this is probably his last opportunity to win a championship. Therefore he's trying to be Rosberg when really he should be Bottas
3 he's under so much pressure due to 1, 2 & the Red Bull way of working that he's making loads of mistakes.
So when he got a good start and had a gap up ahead he just went full on hero or zero mode.
But he's always driven like that. Button way back in 2013 when they were team mates at McLaren said that he needed to calm down, after Perez was banging wheels with him at the Bahrain GP, famously over-excitable Kimi Raikkonnen suggested that what Perez needed was a "punch in the face" he if he didn't calm down after a race in Monaco.
Perez clearly brings a bunch of sponsors money with him wherever he goes, but this is just another race in a long list of needlessly aggressive races as far as I can see
3 he’s under so much pressure due to 1, 2 & the Red Bull way of working that he’s making loads of mistakes.
He's coming to the end of his 3rd season with Red Bull - if he's not worked it all out by no he needs to retire gracefully or be given the boot.
Russell is getting the same treatment from Hamilton too now the car is improving...
[i]🗣️ Russell: “Lewis dunked 27 seconds on me in 36 laps on the same strategy. I’m truly baffled and realize why he is an 8 time #F1 world champion”
🎙️ Crofty: “Eight-time Champion?”
🗣️ Russell: “I consider 2021 to be Lewis”
[/i]
Not much of an advertisement for going to Mexico City next year if it’s all gone Millwall. What a bell end.
I nearly posted yesterday that I’d reckon on a podium for Norris; maybe with a better start after the red flag that wouldn’t have been a wild prediction… some belting passes in there, especially the one on Ricciardo.
Wild rumours flying around on X - from...
• Alonso to retire
• or Alonso to Red Bull(!)
• Perez sacked with immediate effect
• Abu Dhabi cancelled due to war threat in the area
• Stroll sale of Aston Martin imminent (and Lance retirement!)
...pick your favourite! 🙂
I think Perez is done now.
Further up the thread I was of the opinion that given he has a 2024 contract, that he's be safe next year. I think that ship has sailed. Its one thing to not be on Max's pace, its another to throw away races through unforced errors. If he doesn't get a decent finish in Brazil then its adios muchacho
Wild rumours flying around on X – from…
I can believe all of those except Alonso to Red Bull. I think Abu Dhabi cancellation is unlikely. Stroll selling AM has been floating round for about 6 weeks (i posted it up on here a while ago)
it's reached the point where Perez isn't just a danger to himself, he's putting at risk everyone else on the grid.
I can believe all of those except Alonso to Red Bull.
Alonso to Red Bull would be great - you just know the team would go into free-fall then and finish 6th in the championship! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Further up the thread I was of the opinion that given he has a 2024 contract, that he’s be safe next year.
Red Bull can afford to buy him out of his contract or just swap him to AT. It's likely that there are performance stipulations in the contract, it's pretty grim when a guy driving one of the most dominant cars ever seen is struggling to salvage second place in the championship and makes rookie errors on the first lap. I don't remember the details of Albon's Red Bull drives, but surely he wasn't as dire as Perez has looked the last few months.
…pick your favourite! 🙂
New one!...
• Toyota are buying Saubers F1 place (after Audi get cold feet and decide F1 isn't for them - despite getting 2026 engine regs built around what Audi/Porsche wanted!).
Wild rumours flying around on X – from…
• Alonso to retire
• or Alonso to Red Bull(!)
• Perez sacked with immediate effect
• Abu Dhabi cancelled due to war threat in the area
• Stroll sale of Aston Martin imminent (and Lance retirement!)
…pick your favourite! 🙂
Lol. Any one of those rumours from a vaguely credible source??