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Yup
If that had been Verstappen you would be wanting him hung! Hamilton looks like he opens the steering before the collision as well
Rubbing is racing?
I think it was a fairly small error by Hamilton,and if the contact had been wheel to wheel he may have got away with it as a racing incident. But the way F1 works these days it's not surprising that an error leading to damage to another car ends up as a penalty. IMO the issue is still that the rules leave it open to debate, and we get apparent inconstency in the stewards decisions.
Having watched the video, that to me was a racing incident, especially as F1 is trying to encourage racing. However as it's Red Bull v Mercedes, racing incidents don't exist.
Steward's are ruining the sport.
Well, judging by the flurry of comments on this thread, we all enjoyed that race.
I thought that apart from Max (as ever) the rest of the race was pretty good - loads of high quality overtakes! Albon was on fire!
It gets a bit dull when the arrogant arse wins every race without a fight. It's getting to the point where the lack of effective competion is embarrassing.
Idea for next year, you only get DRS if the driver in front is ahead of you in the championship at the end of the last race. Levels the playing field a bit no?
Having watched the video, that to me was a racing incident, especially as F1 is trying to encourage racing. However as it’s Red Bull v Mercedes, racing incidents don’t exist.
Open your other eye. Hamilton ran wide and ran into him On the slowmo it even looks like he opens the steering. He left Perez with no where to go. If Hamilton had given him racing room fine - but he didn't. Maybe accidental from oversteer but even so. If it had been Verstappen on the inside and Hamilton on the outside what would you be sayin?
Ah, I see we’re back to the usual service of boiling everything down to “you’re only saying that because Hamilton/Verstappen (delete as appropriate)”.
Anyway… a decent weekend’s racing, even if a lot of apparent potential failed to materialise. I expected the McLarens to be much better in the dry, and was a bit disappointed to see Albon fall back on the three-stop. Tsunoda notably outperforming Ricciardo by some margin… maybe Perez’s seat is looking safe, even if he was still clearly way off Verstappen’s pace.
If it had been Verstappen on the inside and Hamilton on the outside what would you be sayin?
Still racing incident, door was left open, went for the gap, slid wide on a wet track. It's a sprint race, the organisers/fans want racing, penalizing drivers for racing is only going to discourage them from going for a move.
So, racing driver tries a passing move that goes wrong and he's given a minor penalty. His team say it was just a racing incident. The other team scream blue murder. The fans of each team criticize the stewards for being too lenient/harsh. I'm just amazed this has never happened before.
I expected the McLarens to be much better in the dry,
They'd set the car up for the wet - with a barn-door rear wing. They'd have looked like heroes if the rain had come as forecast.
maybe Perez’s seat is looking safe, even if he was still clearly way off Verstappen’s pace.
According to reports on Twitter he's got a clause in his contract that he can't be demoted to Alpha Tauri. So they keep him till the end of next season or they pay him off.
Hamilton's contract is of more interest - he can't be happy with Mercedes constant failed updates, but there's nowhere else to go.
Hamilton’s contract is of more interest – he can’t be happy with Mercedes constant failed updates, but there’s nowhere else to go.
Maybe Saturdays incident was him trying to get into a Red Bull seat?
tjagain
Open your other eye. Hamilton ran wide and ran into him On the slowmo it even looks like he opens the steering. He left Perez with no where to go. If Hamilton had given him racing room fine – but he didn’t. Maybe accidental from oversteer but even so. If it had been Verstappen on the inside and Hamilton on the outside what would you be sayin?
Hamilton had to open the steering to regain full control, that wasn't malicious.
Perez squeezed him and compromised his line going into the corner, at that speed understeer for the inside car was inevitable. Perez knew he was putting himself at risk doing this, as Verstappen did in Silverstone 2021 which was a similar situation.
As for Perez having nowhere to go, look at the onboard view, there is quite a bit of available space on the outside. Again, same for Verstappen 2021. The squeeze here was intentional as part of his defence.
My own view is that it's more Hamilton's fault but still within the 'racing incident' range. If you put yourself in that position and get a bit of damage, so be it. However the stewards have established a precedent that if the outside car is damaged in this scenario, the inside car will be punished. They at least followed that and applied the penalty consistently.
I think there is a wider point here though, I have been following F1 for a long time, and I have no idea what the current set of rule for overtaking are. I don't think Ant Davidson and Martin Brundle know either, nor do the drivers.
Genuinely there's better racing and entertainment in all categories of WEC at the minute - and as a bonus all free to view on YouTube...
https://www.youtube.com/@FIAWEC
...they don't mind a bit of rubbing!! 🙂
They’d set the car up for the wet – with a barn-door rear wing.
Apparently, McLaren don't have a low-drag wing suitable for Spa because they put all their effort into the big update for more normal circuits. Now they are frantically trying to get a low-drag wing sorted out for Monza.
I thought that apart from Max (as ever) the rest of the race was pretty good
I agree. I don't think there is anything particularly unusual about domination in sport (not just F1) but there's usually some interesting action taking place elsewhere in the field.
Rubbing is racing?
Try this in an F1 car. He went from 10th to 5th place, enough to get through to the playoff rounds.
Now they are frantically trying to get a low-drag wing sorted out for Monza.
They could do what Haas do and get the angle grinder out! 🙂
the-muffin-man
…they don’t mind a bit of rubbing!! 🙂
Or Formula E, no penalty for this 😂
https://twitter.com/sniffermedia/status/1685553784783568896
It’s getting to the point where the lack of effective competion is embarrassing.
This. The debate in our house is win by how many seconds (about 0.5-0.7/lap in front), and which lap he will reach the front if he didn't start on pole ( I had Lap 10, Mrs TiRed 15). That and the Perez start, which looked plain dangerous. How that wasn't called I do not know? I am sure Piastri was very happy with the move.
I thought DRS was going to be removed now cars "can follow each other more effectively"
According to reports on Twitter he’s got a clause in his contract that he can’t be demoted to Alpha Tauri. So they keep him till the end of next season or they pay him off.
I'm not sure that's true...i think it was Andrew Benson talking about this a week or so ago, and he said all the "Red Bull" drivers are employed by the "parent company", not Red Bull Racing or AT, and can be sent to either team on the whim of Helmet
It’s getting to the point where the lack of effective competion is embarrassing.
Somehow the MP4/4 days were more interesting despite that car routinely qualifying 2s or more ahead of the rest of the field. Maybe it was that the drivers were actually fighting each other, maybe reliability was worse so results were less predictable, maybe it's just a rose tinted view. But having said that, Max and the whole RedBull team (except maybe Checo and the accounts dept) seem to be operating on another level at the moment - clearly it's easier to win when you've got the underlying pace in the car, but they seem to be focussing on getting every aspect of the weekend perfect (eg when was their last properly bad pitstop?) which possibly explains Max's grumpiness about their Q2 placing. Perhaps they're making it a bit dull at the front but you have to commend them on what they're doing, even if you don't like it.
I’m not sure that’s true…i think it was Andrew Benson talking about this a week or so ago, and he said all the “Red Bull” drivers are employed by the “parent company”, not Red Bull Racing or AT, and can be sent to either team on the whim of Helmet
[i]In the past, seeing a Red Bull driver fall short of expectations, Marko hasn't hesitated to make abrupt line-up changes between the main team and his second team. When asked in an exclusive interview with Formel1.de , which is part of the Motorsport Network , if Sergio Pérez 's contract allows for a similar move, Marko indicated that the Guadalajara's bond is different from that of Red Bull's junior drivers.
"Pérez does not have the same contract," explained the Austrian.[/i]
Need to translate...
https://lat.motorsport.com/f1/news/checo-perez-contrato-red-bull-explicacion-marko/10501482/
I very much doubt Max could be demoted either.
Well that's a slightly better source than "according to Twitter" 😂
I stand corrected
But having said that, Max and the whole RedBull team (except maybe Checo and the accounts dept) seem to be operating on another level at the moment
Obviously I wouldn't take anything away from Red Bull they've done an awsome job.
But I did listen to a RC racing podcast that had someone who races 12th scale as well as working in F1. One of the things that stood out is that in the past they would model something and the question of cost might have been the last thing asked if at all. Now it's amongst the first due to the cost cap, so teams are leaving speed on the design boards where you used to go all in.
The gulf is that great I'm sure it wouldn't make a difference, it just reminds me of the stuff I don't like about modern F1 like engine limits. Everyone running their stuff right on the limit would be much more exciting than managing gear for races and not going for it, but they can't due to the rules.
What someone who follows modern F1 properly would have to tell me, is if these cost reduction ideas have actually made it a more accessible and competitive sport for smaller manufactures? Maybe Honda coming back in would be a sign it is working? But it still looks like the richest teams have the fastest stuff which is just prototype motorsport.
But having said that, Max and the whole RedBull team (except maybe Checo and the accounts dept) seem to be operating on another level at the moment
Plus the aero changes have fallen into the lap of a team that have 1. probably the best aero engineer (Newey) and 2 the driver best placed to exploit [becasue of the way he likes to set up a car] what Newey can design. For ages the regs. were effectively who can build the engine with the most bang of buck, which was won comprehensively by Mercedes, this iteration is who can build the care that exploits aero regs...It's Red bull.
The gulf is that great I’m sure it wouldn’t make a difference, it just reminds me of the stuff I don’t like about modern F1 like engine limits. Everyone running their stuff right on the limit would be much more exciting than managing gear for races and not going for it, but they can’t due to the rules.
Reliability has made it less exciting. You just know no-one is going to break down. You don't even hold out that hope anymore when Max is sailing off into the distance.
And the cost cap seems remarkably low compared to spending in other sports - $135m is x1 top flight footballer! The only thing I can see that it's done is make the teams more valuable. You could once pick an F1 team up for £1 - now it's £1bn! They were money eating liabilities now they are cash-cows with no benefit to fans.
And fuel saving - make them brim the ruddy cars at the start. That'd put and end to those shenanigans! 🙂
if these cost reduction ideas have actually made it a more accessible and competitive sport for smaller manufactures?
It's going to take a bit longer for the cost cap and other changes to actually make much difference. The other issue is that the old big spending teams have already got fantastic manufacturing capabilities, wind tunnels etc which gives them a further advantage. There are discussions about allowing the smaller teams to invest in that sort of thing outside the cost cap to help balance things out, but obviously that's a bit contentious so it's taking time to be discussed/agreed, and even if it's approved it will take a couple of years before any spend shows on track.
I was banging that drum for years too, then (annoyingly) this came along and pointed out who I was wrong (at least I think it was this video, was a while ago I watched it)
I'm not thinking of removing fuel flow limits - I'm thinking of stopping teams underfueling in the hope there's a safety car.
Keep the fuel flow limits but make them all start with the same weight of fuel. Weight could vary between races due to the nature of circuits, but the FIA would know what is needed where.
At the minute they all start under-fuelled and have to lift and coast to avoid running out if the race runs without any issues.
Now it’s amongst the first due to the cost cap, so teams are leaving speed on the design boards where you used to go all in.
It's always been a matter of allocating resources as efficiently as possible. Money is one constraint, time is another, staff is another. Whenever a new car hits the track, the engineers immediately see areas for improvement, but they have always had to prioritize which things to fix first. Money is one big constraint. The smaller teams used to struggle to just turn up for less than $100 million. What that basically means is that the development budget is the total budget minus $100 million. A team with a budget of $300 million didn't have twice the development budget of a team with $150 million, they had four times as much.
Problem is, there is only so much time between races and that extra money doesn't buy you more time to develop stuff. Sure, you can hire more staff and run parallel programs, but there are diminishing returns because the technical director has to spend more time on managing the extra staff and analyzing the benefits of the different developments. If you keep adding staff, the technical director just ends up spending every waking hour in meetings trying to manage the staff.
Adrian Newey's success seems to mostly be down to being really good at prioritizing where to spend resources rather than just throwing money at problems like Ferrari used to do. The cost cap will just mean that the better managed teams with technical directors who are good at allocating resources will tend to succeed.
Also, the budget cap doesn't include the three(?) highest paid employees. At Red Bull, the salaries of Max Verstappen, Adrian Newey, and Christian Horner will be outside the cost cap. That's probably $70 million per year or more. All the teams with superstar drivers and technical directors will be spending closer to $200 million than $140 million.
Does anyone know a good podcast which details how the cost cap works? As I understand it, it's fiendishly complicated when items such as capital expenditure and "parallel" developments in other formula and/or road car development plus the difference between engine manufacturers v customer teams.
The cost cap doesn't include the driver salaries or the top 3 employees.
After td45 it does also in theory include projects where knowledge has been shared. An obvious loophole even considering the RB17 ground effect hypercar and similar.
https://www.formulanerds.com/news/are-red-bull-and-mercedes-breaking-the-rules-td45-explained/
I wonder if a complete rethink of the rules would help - make them much looser allowing imaginative solutions
Air flow restriction for engines. Thats the only limit. then we can see if M16s. v twins or inline 8s work best - each would have different advantages and disadvantages but no one would be able to have a massive top end power advantage as they all have the same max airflow into the intake
similarly aero - Single element wings that must fit in a well defined set of dimensions otherwise free for all and ditto with the bodywork
Batteries for the hybrid systems - define a physical size and weight min and max. thats the only regulation
I do not know enough engineering to know if this would work but I am thinking of moto GP and the beginning of the 4 stroke era where you could have different weight limits and capacity limits depending on how many cylinders the bike had - this lead to bikes with very different characteristics which meant one type had an advantage at one track, a different layout at another and the different bikes used very different lines in corners. the Vtwins would take a wide sweeping line, the multis squared off corners. twins had better punch out of corners ( partly due to lower weight) the multis better top end. IMO ( or is it rose tinted glasses?) this produced more interesting racing
My question is why on earth the FIA / F1 Ltd haven't applied either ballast being added to the '23 Red Bull on a ratio of +KGs per win? Or how about following BTCC where the winning cars lose the 15 secs/ lap hybrid electric boost. Why on earth can't F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport be any near having the pinnacle of motorsport rules?
I don't watch F1 anymore, since the end of 2021 season debacle it's a waste of time. However, if the '23 Red Bull was 100kg heavier than the rest of the field plus it had no hybrid boost to use I might return to watching F1 just to see the look on Horner's face. 😀
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My question is why on earth the FIA / F1 Ltd haven’t applied either ballast being added to the ’23 Red Bull on a ratio of +KGs per win?
Because it's a legal car. I'm not a Red Bull fan, but they really have done a much better job than the others. F1 has always been an engineering driven sport so it's normal for one team to dominate for years at a time, especially when that team happened to have Adrian Newey or Ross Brawn on the payroll.
tjagain
Full Member
I wonder if a complete rethink of the rules would help – make them much looser allowing imaginative solutionsAir flow restriction for engines. Thats the only limit. then we can see if M16s. v twins or inline 8s work best – each would have different advantages and disadvantages but no one would be able to have a massive top end power advantage as they all have the same max airflow into the intake
similarly aero – Single element wings that must fit in a well defined set of dimensions otherwise free for all and ditto with the bodywork
Batteries for the hybrid systems – define a physical size and weight min and max. thats the only regulation
It would be massively expensive and you'd still get one team dominating when they found some technical innovation. I've often wondered about just setting a fuel tank size (100 litres, for example) and then letting them build whatever engine they prefer. Problem is, if you had unlimited budget, you'd end up building two or three different engines for different circuits - the optimal engine for Monaco might be completely different to the optimal for Monza, and Mexico might need something different again.
I’m not a Red Bull fan, but they really have done a much better job than the others.
And this is the history of F1. The only reason the MP4/4 dominant seasons wasn't a total snore fest was that the two drivers in those cars hated each other, same with Mercedes with the W07 in 2016 it won 19 of 21 races, and on pole for 20 races, and the only reason they didn't win everything was because they crashed into each other once and Hamilton's engine gave up once (while he was comfortably leading).
thehols2 - you've missed my point there.
Every car in the 2023 BTCC is a legal car but on a sliding scale they lose up to nearly 90% of their 15 sec / lap hybrid boost if they're winning races, why is this so hard for F1 to adopt?
why is this so hard for F1 to adopt?
Because they've never done in in the past? How is it fine for Lotus, or Ferrari, or McLaren or Mercedes to win everything and be massively more dominant, but when Red bull and Verstappen do it, ThEy MuSt BE SToPPed!!!
'Because they've never done it in the past' - that's a ridiculous statrment, especially considering F1 is meant to push boundaries.
F1 in 1960 - 'oh no we can never put aerofoils on our racing cars, F1 has never done that before'...
that’s a ridiculous statrment
Is it? You're basically saying I want RB penalised because they're doing better than all the current teams, F1 has never done similar in the past when most other racing categories have finessed with the rules (sometime mid-season) to keep the racing tight or reign in a dominate team. That's never been the F1 way, everyone accepts that some times teams just get it right, and that's always been the case.
To change it now because you don't particularly like the team or its driver or the manager is ridiculous.
Nobody was saying this in 2009 when Brawn were winning everything at a canter at the beginning of the season, no one even hinted that Mercedes should be weighed down in 2016.
Every car in the 2023 BTCC is a legal car but on a sliding scale they lose up to nearly 90% of their 15 sec / lap hybrid boost if they’re winning races, why is this so hard for F1 to adopt?
It goes against the philosophy of F1 - penalising someone for doing a better job. Same argument is currently going on about Renault's request to equalise PUs - it's basically saying "We can't do as good a job as you so can you make it easier for us".
no one even hinted that Mercedes should be weighed down in 2016.
Ahem!... 🙂
Haha, fair enough @the-muffin-man, bang to rights.
no one even hinted that Mercedes should be weighed down in 2016, apart from a very sore loser.
nickc
How is it fine for Lotus, or Ferrari, or McLaren or Mercedes to win everything and be massively more dominant, but when Red bull and Verstappen do it, ThEy MuSt BE SToPPed!!!
Nah people were moaning and suggesting ways to dial the dominant teams back then as well (well I didn't follow it when Lotus were winning but the others anyway).
Hamilton even said it was boring when he himself was winning everything.
The RB19 is close to being the most dominant car of all time, with 96% of all laps this season lead by this car, close behind the MP4/4 at 97% - but the MP4/4 had Senna and Prost driving and the RB19 has Perez doing recovery drives most weeks.
FWIW Mercedes in 2014 is next on the list at 86%.
I don't agree with B-O-P (success ballast etc) in F1 yet, I do like it in WEC and Touring Cars though. I think the sliding scale for aero will eventually even it out, it's just a question of whether it will be quick enough to save the next few years from being a one-horse race.
My suggestion is that the aero is a sliding scale based on constructors points. So the gap between the constructors in the standings is taken into account, not just first automatically gets 70%, second gets 75% etc.
I’m thinking of stopping teams underfueling in the hope there’s a safety car.
Are you also going to stop them running certain tyres, or holding off on pitting, in the hope that there's a safety car, or it rains (see also McLaren running high downforce in the hope it rained as kinda forecast)
Weight could vary between races due to the nature of circuits, but the FIA would know what is needed where.
Would they? I'm not sure I can see the engine manufacturers happily giving up their fuel flow data to a third party
It would be massively expensive and you’d still get one team dominating when they found some technical innovation.
This x 100.
Regulations are basically there to keep costs down while also making racing closer. In sailing you basically have two types of boats:
One design - where everything is very closely regulated (foils, sails, hull shape, construction, etc) which makes racing cheaper and closer with more competitors (because of the two previous factors).
Development classes - allows more development within a certain set of rules. This leads to far higher costs , less reliability and the competitors tend to be spread out over a larger part of the course. This is F1
The problem with reigning Red Bull in is there's no one thing you can point too that gives them the advantage.
• Brawn - double diffuser - banned for following season.
• Mansell Williams era - active suspension banned.
• McLaren - Dominant until Williams came along with active suspension! Then lost Honda engines. 🙂
• Mercedes era - numerous innovations banned include FRICS and DAS.
...Red Bull - where would you start? Perfect package and you have to congratulate them on that.
Funniest one yet I reckon
but when Red bull and Verstappen do it, ThEy MuSt BE SToPPed
My problem with red bull being so dominant is they did nothing but moan, complain and accuse Mercedes when they had the dominant car.
Then you have max as the main driver who is difficult to like. Throws marginal lunges on corners but again moans if someone does the same etc.
(Though out of the race car and chatting to other drivers he has some good moments like him and Landon taking the p@## out of each other)
Nice couple of vids here for aero nerds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80LTEWnahA
The whole channel is worth a watch if you dig this kind of detail.
So, Alphatauri to be Boss or Boss Orange next year, and, allegedly, could run this year's Red Bull!
So red bull created a jet without a turbine/ air ramm to help propel their car with greater downforce leaving the requirement of a smaller wing and therefore higher speed whilst at the same time providing a turbulent disadvantage for anyone following their cars?
Very clever.
Much as dislike RB you have to take your hat off to the for coming up with the best car by a mile. It’s upto the rest of the field, especially Merc, Ferrari and AM to catch up. It’s the cost cap that makes that harder for them to do. But I always thought the cost cap is silly. You dont do f1 cheap
So red bull created a jet without a turbine/ air ram to help propel their car with greater downforce leaving the requirement of a smaller wing and therefore higher speed whilst at the same time providing a turbulent disadvantage for anyone following their cars?
Well the theory is nothing new. Similar effect was noted in WW2 with the radiator set up on P51 Mustangs.
The Meredith effect.
Worked for all fighters with rads that poked out in to the airstream. I think the first Spittys also benefitted from it.
The Meredith effect isn't why the Red Bull is so fast, it's been understood since before F1 existed, all the teams know how to design cooling systems. The Red Bull has much more efficient downforce from ground effect, it's much more tolerant of ride height changes so they don't need to run super stiff suspension and don't suffer from the bouncing problems that other teams did. The diffuser and beam wing have been designed to interact with the main wing so that enabling DRS also cut drag from the underfloor airflow. That DRS effect is why the Red Bulls can pass other cars so easily.
thols2
The diffuser and beam wing have been designed to interact with the main wing so that enabling DRS also cut drag from the underfloor airflow. That DRS effect is why the Red Bulls can pass other cars so easily.
I have heard this mentioned several times, but have no idea how it works in practice? Any ideas?
The main wing flap that opens when DRS is enabled, is so far from those other components I struggle to see how they have managed an interaction, or does DRS do more than just opening that wing flap?
I have heard this mentioned several times, but have no idea how it works in practice?
There's a bit about it here...
https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-anderson-explains-red-bulls-triple-drs-trick/
stumpy01
I have heard this mentioned several times, but have no idea how it works in practice? Any ideas?
The main wing flap that opens when DRS is enabled, is so far from those other components I struggle to see how they have managed an interaction, or does DRS do more than just opening that wing flap?
sorry to post the same channel again but B Sport has a good video on it here
The Meredith effect isn’t why the Red Bull is so fast
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is. It's just another interesting detail about the car's aerodynamics that they're clearly exploiting. I imagine that some of the other teams are doing similar.
sorry to post the same channel again but B Sport has a good video on it here
This was great, thanks for posting!
Great, thanks for The-Race link and the YT vid 👍
I've seen some suggestions on Twitter that F1 are considering a ban on DRS usage during qualifying. Seems like a good idea, it's supposed to be an overtaking aid so should never have been used in quali.
Seen that too - but it will make no difference to Max. In that car even if he's not on pole he'll still sail through and win. To me it shouldn't even be an overtaking aid - just promotes a 'I'll wait for the DRS zone' approach amongst drivers.
They'll have to do something to keep the US interest though - F1 tickets for sale in Costco now!... 🙂
Massa's started action for compensation.
https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/
Seems a lot more plausible than having the actual result overturned.
Massa’s started action for compensation.
https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/
Seems a lot more plausible than having the actual result overturned.
If that one's successful, then I can think of another case that would be worth a try
Has a no win no fee lawyer sweet talked him into this! Not a chance this will go anywhere and he’ll be more out of pocket.
I can’t imagine a win here. They’d have to prove Bernie said what he did and then prove that there was evidence to support it from 15years ago, when Bernie and Mosley controlled everything, without oversight or regulation. This is going to come down to he said, she said and Bernie will play the 92y old codger unless he really wants to screw Hamilton and McLaren, which is a possibility.
Surely they'd also need to prove that none of the subsequent races would have been affected if the Singapore result hadn't stood, otherwise Flipoy wouldn't necessarily have won the title anyway.
They’d have to prove Bernie said what he did
That won't be too difficult....he says it in the Lucky! documentary 🙄
1. Everyone knew that the crash was suspicious, but proving it was deliberate required Piquet to confess. Bernie saying he "knew" doesn't mean anything if they didn't have strong enough evidence to disqualify Renault.
2. From that news article: "Massa failed to score after a bungled pitstop." So, if Alonso was disqualified, then Hamilton would have scored more points and Massa would still have scored zero.
My feeling is that Massa is well liked and everyone recognizes that he was very unlucky to not win that championship, but I don't see this achieving anything useful.
It’s absolute pish. What do they have done? Say that Renault should be disqualified from the race? Now Hamilton wins the championship by three points. I can’t see how Massa can expect “recognition that, but for those unlawful acts, he would have been awarded the 2008 Championship”—it doesn’t make any sense.
If Massa wants to sue anyone he should probably sue Ferrari for making a donkey’s arse of the pit stop.
But then I guess you’d get half of Maranello’s drivers from at least the last 20 years queuing up to claim damages for having their title challenges fumbled by one department or another at Ferrari.
Jennie Gow is coming back to R5 for the next race 😊
Great news. That's a decent recovery!
I bet it's very tiring for her at the moment still!
Bernie states the the race should’ve been cancelled - that this was part of the sporting code of governance at the time.
Under those circumstances, Massa would’ve won the title.