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Great to see McLaren improving, but too early to say whether it's track and condition specific or whether McLaren and Ferrari can keep their tyres alive over a full race distance in hotter conditions. There was only about .25 of a second between Norris in second and Hamilton in seventh, quite likely that second fastest team will keep changing race by race.
but too early to say whether it’s track and condition specific
Oh, I think we can pretty much say that yesterday's result was 1. the track suits the car, and 2. the McLaren gets its fronts up to temp pretty rapidly when it's cooler.
There were many annoying fans at Silverstone last year obsessed with Lewis against Max, the constant girly gibbering like cheerleaders got on my fxxxxxg nerves, the minute Verstappen had a problem could hardly hear the cars for the cheers lots of hate. Away back to watch Spurs v Arsenal
I suppose back in the days of Nigel Mansell Nelson Piquet it might have been as bad probably worse
I really wish he had been 😱
Whose stupid idea was that 🤦🏻♂️
Yep, what the merry hell was that all about 😂😂😂🫣
Well it was nice while it lasted.
What a cracking race! Really enjoyed watching the whole thing start to finish on C4!
The McLaren’s showed some amazing race pace, well done to them. Feel for Piastri, if it wasn’t for the Safety car he would have got 3rd! Great driving by Lando to get head at the start and also keeping
I wonder if Hamilton will be giving Zak Brown a call to get a ride for next year?
That was a great race - some excellent overtakes and… Go Lando! Superb! McLaren are back… (maybe!)
That's two years on the trot cracking races at Silverstone, so much better than many of the circuits where money rules. Bernie was always threatening the circuit when he ran the show
What a race, Norris and Hamilton in second and third is a great result and 11 wins on the bounce for RB is amazing, Hats off to them.
Oh and another ‘what was that from Damien Lewis?’ 😳😬😂
Great driving by Lando to get head at the start and also keeping
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think that's maybe the only possible way the start could have been better for Lando TBH 🤔🤣
Live feed from the Ferrari strategy department.
I heard in the commentary that Ferrari's strategy decisions haven't been good for the last "couple of races". My first thought was "you mean last couple of seasons", then changed my mind to "last couple of decades".
That’s two years on the trot cracking races at Silverstone, so much better than many of the circuits where money rules.
It's never been a favourite circuit of mine but that was indeed an excellent race, helped by a number of closely matched cars.
Went to Silverstone for the weekend with the family. We stayed at windmill farm which was around 10-15 mins walk from Copse corner. We went GA this year as the grandstand ticket prices were insane this year. Nearly double what we paid last year.
It was a fantastic weekend of racing. The F3 and F2 races were great and then the main event was full of action. The crowd was buzzing when Lando beat Max off the start and into the first corner. The whole weekend it felt like Lando is fast becoming the new Silverstone crowd favourite. He certainly got the biggest cheer from the main stage crowd in the interviews we had after the race.
Highlight of the weekend though was total confusion Will.I.Am had when around 100,000 people were singing “Oh Yuki Tsunoda” (to seven nation army) throughout the Black eyed peas set on Saturday night. He even got down off the stage to ask the crowd what they were singing. They seemed to find it all pretty funny.
It’s never been a favourite circuit of mine but that was indeed an excellent race, helped by a number of closely matched cars.
On paper it doesn’t look like it should be anything special, but it consistently makes for classic racing up and down the field, especially in recent years. I think it’s the circuit I look forward to the most.
On paper it doesn’t look like it should be anything special,
I think it's similar to Monaco, but the exact mirror image. It just rewards high speed performance so you don't need a well-rounded car to be fast. The Williams is the perfect example - fast in a straight line and not hampered by lack of downforce. Monaco is the opposite, high-speed performance is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is how much downforce you can crank on. Plus, as Perez showed, the driver has to be able to extract the performance from the car.
I dunno, I’d say Monza is the opposite of Monaco. Silverstone has a wide variety of corners which force people to mix it up in close racing, from a choice of lines through Brooklands and Luffield to playing chicken into Copse. Monza only has the run round Curva Grande where anyone can do anything of interest, and at Monaco you don’t need to bother moving off the racing line at all to defend a position.
Speaking of Monza, though, it will be interesting to see how both Williams and McLaren perform there… wonder what the odds are on a Norris/Piastri/Albon podium 😀
Photographer trying to do his job and Helmut being a nob...
https://twitter.com/nnicolef1/status/1678073675210211328?t=_Li4QoG0NEemsppWa5LFgA&s=19
dunno how legit this journo is but...
https://twitter.com/ErikvHaren/status/1678749291555307520
translation
❗️ Nyck de Vries immediately sent away from AlphaTauri. Daniel Ricciardo will replace him in Hungary next week. De Vries' adventure with sister team Red Bull has therefore only lasted ten races. ⬇️
Autosport and others are running articles which essentially say "Other people have said..." but I can't find anything concrete from the team or De Vries himself.
Chris Medland thinks it's true, he's trustworthy
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1678759552450285569
A shame if true, another promising talent chewed up by the RB machine.
It's been announced by alphatauri
Fun to see Daniel back on the grid. Shame the car's a bit of dog though
Looking at the WCC table and seeing SAT nailed to the foot with 2 points, Alpha on 9, HASF1 and a resurgent Williams on 11 they really had to do something to try and turn their season around. Hopefully Ric is the answer and puts himself in the frame for a full RB seat next year!
Warning sign for Perez then…
I wouldn't have thought so. I mean from RB's perspective having Perez not fight for the championship makes their lives easier. Give the drive to some-one who can routinely challenge Verstappen for pole and the win creates all sorts of headaches...See Vettel/Webber.
One way to look at it but I do agree that it's designed to send a shot across Perez's bow...
Give the drive to some-one who can routinely challenge Verstappen for pole and the win creates all sorts of headaches…See Vettel/Webber.
Right now they've got someone who can't consistently deliver in one of the most dominant cars in F1 history. They'd like to have a driver who is quick enough to get on the podium at every race because that takes points away from the competition - probably not that big a deal this year but if (please!) the field is a bit closer next year then Perez's current form isn't good enough.
nickc
I wouldn’t have thought so. I mean from RB’s perspective having Perez not fight for the championship makes their lives easier. Give the drive to some-one who can routinely challenge Verstappen for pole and the win creates all sorts of headaches…See Vettel/Webber.
He's have too many recovery drives, at a minimum he should be starting in the top 5 every week and finishing second to help them cover off pit strategies and help defend Max against other teams attacking.
Also even for red bull this is pretty savage:
https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1678775609131143168
one of the most dominant cars in F1 history.
As long as you're Max Verstappen. Hasn't nearly every other driver who's sat in the other seat said essentially a variation of "The car's pretty much set up for Max's particular driving style, which makes it very very difficult for anyone else to drive" RB know that, and I think that after the end of last years seasons' set to at Brazil, and Horner's noted lack of ability to manage their drivers, that they're not in a hurry to shop Perez. Sure they'd like him to occasionally get out of Q3, but they are complicit in updating the car each year towards Max...So, y'know, pick one...
Wasn't this the criticism levelled at Albon? Struggled to qualify in a prime position but often drove very well on Sunday. Perez came with a bit more seasoned experience and has had some good drives but overall hasn't been as effective as I think Red Bull would have really wanted. I also agree that Max (and probably Red Bull too) won't want anyone too competitive with him as it will get messy and that will create a whole new headache for RB to deal with. They clearly love Max and see him as the number 1 and what they really want from the number 2 driver is someone who will be able to act as at least some sort of wing man and will be picking up podium places behind Max.
I look at how different a mindset Albon seems to be in these days and how he is probably in a much better place mentally and in a more supportive team environment. It's just a shame for him that he is not in a really competitive car at the moment but really pleased for him that he has picked up some excellent results (all things considered) this season. Overall, he is probably better off not being in Red Bull and, the way the past few seasons have gone, I would probably steer clear of Ferrari 🙂
Well, my money’s on a seat swap at the end of the season. If Ricciardo consistently beats Tsunoda and Perez consistently fails to finish in the top two I reckon it’s a safe bet.
and what they really want from the number 2 driver is someone who will be able to act as at least some sort of wing man and will be picking up podium places behind Max.
I don't doubt it, it sounds like a great plan, but as others have pointed out, It's the dominant car, if you find someone who can wrangle it like Max to get it up the grid, then the only other person you're racing at that point is Max, and the whole "you're the no2 driver; don't get any funny ideas" strategy always works out brilliantly in F1 doesn't it?
Any team would rather have the problem of their drivers arguing over first and second, than the problem of them starting from opposite ends of the grid. I don’t recall Ron Dennis in the late 80s or Toto Wolff in the early 2010s desperately trying to sign a mediocre driver into one of their cars.
If Ricciardo consistently beats Tsunoda and Perez consistently fails to finish in the top two I reckon it’s a safe bet.
I wouldn't call that "safe" - I have reservations that Riccardo is any better at adapting to a car that isn't exactly set up to his liking...
Bez
Full MemberWell, my money’s on a seat swap at the end of the season. If Ricciardo consistently beats Tsunoda and Perez consistently fails to finish in the top two I reckon it’s a safe bet.
Yes - it will be interesting as a benchmark on Yuki's current performance as well, he was quite far behind Gasly in his first two years but seems to have been on an upward trajectory.
Any team would rather have the problem of their drivers arguing over first and second
If your star driver's dad had done time for beating people up, I'm not so sure 🤣 If RB want that, then they have to give Perez a car he can drive well enough. Currently they develop it each year towards Verstappen. Bottas used to have the same criticism, Each year there'd be an article about how it's Bottas V2.0 and how he's going for the win this season, and every year he'd start well, and every year Mercedes gave Hamilton the car he wanted.
I think you're right, I think he will be replaced if he doesn't do better, becasue RB won't want to make the car easier for Perez at the expense of a car that Verstappen likes to drive but I 'll bet money that Horner sleeps better right now.
... and the whole “you’re the no2 driver; don’t get any funny ideas” strategy always works out brilliantly in F1 doesn’t it?
Probably because I find them hard to like, I imagine Red Bull's No 2 will not receive the level playing field treatment that, say, Prost and Senna or Hamilton and Rosberg shared. More likely a watered-down version of the Schumacher and *anyone* treatment, as Webber found.
I imagine Red Bull’s No 2 will not receive the level playing field treatment
Well, that was basically why Ricciardo left them.
Hopefully in his time away he’s decided to hell with all that if it comes up again and will just go for it. If he’d decided he’d back down in that sort of environment then I don’t think he’d be back on the grid. I’m very much hoping to see him back in the Red Bull for 2024 and blowing Marko’s fuse on a weekly basis.
pondo
as Webber found.
Luckily Ricciardo already has experience there
This was an early example of Verstappen's I'll do whatever I think is in my own best interests and damn the rules and consequences. Two moves to defend, one of them in the braking zone.
From Lawrence Baretto on Twitter:
Sources say Ricciardo was impressive in today's Pirelli tyre test with Red Bull, his first drive in 2023 machinery, and that his best lap would have been good enough for the front row of the grid in Sunday's British Grand Prix.🤯#F1
Currently they develop it each year towards Verstappen.
That's not really what they do. They develop the car to make it as fast as possible, which has the effect of making it tricky to drive on the limit. Verstappen may be a difficult personality to like, but he is undoubtably a much better driver than Perez and can deal with a difficult car much better. No team is going to make a car go slower just so that it's easier for an average driver to deal with. Same thing happened with Hamilton versus Bottas and Alonso versus most of his teammates - they could extract performance from cars that were tricky to drive.
That’s not really what they do.
It kind of is. These days they've got loads of digital data too, but when it comes to evaluating direct feedback from the drivers, they'll give much more creedance to the twice world champion with 40 GP wins than they will the plucky Mexican underdog. If Max says "needs more front grip" and Checo says "it's too on the nose", who do you think they listen to?
If Max says “needs more front grip” and Checo says “it’s too on the nose”, who do you think they listen to?
They will compare driver feedback with their telemetry data from the track, plus the simulator and windtunnel and develop the car to make it as fast as possible. Max is simply a better driver than Perez, he can extract the performance from the car. They aren't developing the car for Max, it's just that Perez isn't at his level. A car developed to mask Perez's weaknesses would be slower. No team is going to make a slower car.
In Perez favour is probably that he is still number 2 in the championship and they are easily going to win both drivers and constructors. Whilst he’s not doing great, there’s prob not a lot better he can do for the team apart from making some podiums for the nice photos.
Any team would rather have the problem of their drivers arguing over first and second,
While team bosses often say this, I don't think its necessarily true for all of them. If you're the team boss of Alpine or Haas, and you've caught the world on the back foot with your car, then yep, it'd be great to have that issue. If you're a team boss of one of the top 3 teams and you have a good chance of a championship, then I reckon its a complete nightmare, and the history of F1 sort of bears me out on this. I reckon if you asked them, Dennis, or Williams or Wolff or whoever would rather have a Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton and a non-entity as a 2nd driver. Because give one of those guys a good enough car and they'll win both championships for you all by themselves (see Verstappen) and the 2nd driver can pretty much do what they want - as long as that's not realistically challenging your No1 driver or make life hard for you.
I still think you're right. If your choice is Perez or Riccardo, then for marketing alone, choose Dan, and you can cite poor results if you want, but I reckon he'll get boosted into the seat becasue he's a draw and your no1 driver seems like a prick to most of the world outside of The Netherlands.
He'll do fine...Unless he starts winning.
I reckon if you asked them, Dennis, or Williams or Wolff or whoever would rather have a Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton and a non-entity as a 2nd driver.
Nope. Those three teams consistently hired the best drivers they could find and let them fight. If they wanted non-entities as 2nd drivers, that's what they would have done.
thols2
They will compare driver feedback with their telemetry data from the track, plus the simulator and windtunnel and develop the car to make it as fast as possible. Max is simply a better driver than Perez, he can extract the performance from the car. They aren’t developing the car for Max, it’s just that Perez isn’t at his level. A car developed to mask Perez’s weaknesses would be slower. No team is going to make a slower car.
Relevant article
https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull-admits-altering-set-up-for-perez-costs-it-performance/
Williams also have a new livery for the next few races which i rather like
for the next few races
Well Singapore, Japan & Qatar. We've got Hungary, Belgium, Netherlands and Italy before then 🙂
Nope. Those three teams consistently hired the best drivers they could find and let them fight
They didn't really, you remember them doing that as those rivalries made all the headlines, and generally caused massive chaos - sometimes on purpose to upset their team-mates (see Rosberg/Hamilton who was hired originally as a team mate for Schumacher)
Mostly what they do is hire drivers like Kovalainen, Bottas, Perez, Irvine and Brundle to drive alongside their superstars who are all instantly forgettable - just as they're supposed to be
they are easily going to win both drivers and constructors
If you only included Max's points then they would be leading the constructors championship by 52 points.
Checco has the fastest car on the grid. He should be doing a Bottas and qualifying in the top 5 every race, finishing on the podium at every race, picking up the win when Max has a problem.
They aren’t developing the car for Max
They are, but you're also right in that he's a better driver than Perez, they two things aren't separate, they go hand in hand. you develop the car to go faster, but that's going to be in the direction of the driver who can drive it faster, who then encourages the team to head more in that direction.
Chicken and Egg
They didn’t really, you remember them doing that as those rivalries made all the headlines, and generally caused massive chaos – sometimes on purpose to upset their team-mates (see Rosberg/Hamilton who was hired originally as a team mate for Schumacher)
They did, really. They hired the best drivers and let them fight.
Perez is a journeyman. Decent but never going to be up with the likes of Max etc. He's having a great time in a great car. RB shouldn't care but they want more.
I very deliberately left Frank Williams out of the conversation about driver selection
Because he thought it was all about the car and not the driver? Apart from Senna, apparently
And Prost, Villeneuve, Mansell, Rosberg, Jones etc. Frank wasn't sentimental about drivers after Jones left, but he always went for the best two he could get.
I always had the impression that Frank Williams was a bit of a cheapskate, maybe based on the idea that if you put the money into developing the car, the top drivers would come begging. I think he went for the best drivers he could get, but wouldn't pay for two superstars like Ron Dennis would. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows better.
If they really want to benchmark Yuki, maybe after the summer break, once Max has the championship all down up (Sept) they can swap cars for a race?
I think he went for the best drivers he could get, but wouldn’t pay for two superstars like Ron Dennis would. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows better.
I think he would have happily had any combo of Mansell, Prost and Senna from '93 on if he could. But I think you're right, he wouldn't have broken the bank for them - of course, with the car they had then, he didn't need to!
Forgot Piquet in my previous list. 🙂
I think he would have happily had any combo of Mansell, Prost and Senna from ’93 on if he could.
Given that Mansell left becasue Prost joined, and Prost had a contract that essentially said in so many words "no Senna" and (like Mansell) left F1 when Senna did eventually join Williams, then "if he could" is doing some heavy lifting here. Sort of illustrates my point. What team owners say, and what they probably want or can organise, are different things
If you only included Max’s points then they would be leading the constructors championship by 52 points.
Another way of looking at that is that with Sergio's points alone, they'd be 4th and just 1 point behind Ferrari. Sergio is doing exactly the job he's supposed to. His recent run of bad form is entirely down to the fact that early on in the season he thought he was a title contender, and it's got to his head.
Mansell left becasue Prost joined, and Prost had a contract that essentially said in so many words “no Senna” and (like Mansell) left F1 when Senna did eventually join Williams
I recall it a little differently: Mansell left a year before Senna joined (though it was around the time that Senna offered to drive a Williams for free) and left because Frank would only give him less than half his previous year’s salary despite now being world champion. I don’t think Prost was terribly keen to race alongside Mansell either, though I doubt he was as firm on that as he was about Senna.
Frank just always seemed very good at losing his drivers as soon as they became world champions. A lot of the Williams driver decisions seemed rather baffling.
Quite a number of recent races and qualifying sessions have been affected by rain and Perez is woeful in the rain. A fact he freely admits.
'91-'92 Mansell and Patrese. '91 terrible gearbox, '92 won lots, Mansell drivers and Williams win contructors still quite delicate gearbox
pre '93 Prost invited to the team, Patrese reading the room leaves and joins Benetton, Mansell throws toys out of the pram, and Williams recruit Hill as 2nd driver
'93, Prost wins first race in totally dominant (FW15) car, wins both drivers and constructors
pre '94 Senna joins, Prost's contract veto has expired, so retires.
'94 season...well, we all know what happens.
That's my recollection of it all.
I think my point, such as it is, is that Frank would not have chosen a "safe" number two if he had the opportunity to have the two best drivers he could get.
Frank would not have chosen a “safe” number two if he had the opportunity to have the two best drivers he could get.
I think that thing that both you and @Bez are alluding to is that Frank Williams and Patrick Head were more interested in running the operation as their personal fiefdom, had no real management skills to speak of, told big fat whoppers to drivers/engineers/designers in negotiations when it suited them, and denied all knowledge when they were (often) caught out by the same drivers/engineers/designers after the event, and tried to stiff everybody at every opportunity regardless.
I don't think I've read an autobiography of anyone connected with F1 who's been through Williams when it was run by Williams/Head has a story to tell. 😂🤣
Frank just always seemed very good at losing his drivers as soon as they became world champions. A lot of the Williams driver decisions seemed rather baffling.
The most baffling thing was losing Adrian Newey. With hindsight, if they'd just given Newey 25% shares in the team and told him to run it however he wanted, they probably would have dominated for the last three decades. Thing is, the reason they lost him was that his contract stipulated that he had to be included in decisions on drivers, but then Frank Williams and Patrick Head just ignored him. So, not only did Frank Williams keep losing world champion drivers, he doubled down on that by losing the most talented designer the sport has ever seen.
I think that thing that both you and @Bez are alluding to is that Frank Williams and Patrick Head were more interested in running the operation as their personal fiefdom, had no real management skills to speak of, told big fat whoppers to drivers/engineers/designers in negotiations when it suited them, and denied all knowledge when they were (often) caught out by the same drivers/engineers/designers after the event, and tried to stiff everybody at every opportunity regardless.
Heh! No, that's not what I was alluding to... 🙂 I don't think many succesful F1 teams have been run by shy and retiring types, but Williams kind of felt like the last team where the top brass were hands-on with every aspect they could, rather than delegating - just slow to move with the times, I guess. I'm not sure if either were particularly nice men, but that wasn't their job, and they were a long way from being the only team owners with an unpleasant streak.
The most baffling thing was losing Adrian Newey.
Yes, utterly bonkers and unnecessary. On a scale of bad decisions it makes things like Honda’s withdrawal in 2008 and Szafnauer’s bungling of the Piastri contract look like works of tactical genius.
Heh! No, that’s not what I was alluding to…
It’s pretty much bang on what I was alluding to 🙂
I love that!! Hilarious and spot on!
I only discovered the channel a couple of weeks ago (after Austria).