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...absolutely coins it in.
I bet the figure of $40m/year being talked about is a lot less than he's on now. 🙂
The only reason to go is for the historic/romantic aspect of driving for Ferrari - and nice company cars for life!
Ferrari do need Leclerc out though. He's only just a step above Sainz IMO and not in the Lewis/Max/Fernando league.
and not in the Lewis/Max/Fernando league.
I think LeClerc has every chance of being an amazingly good driver, I think it's clear that he's got the speed, he's by far and away the fastest driver over a lap, and is one of the few drivers who, after Verstappen has done some amazing time, can legitimately say "Hold my beer..."
You can't judge how good a driver is based on their performance at Ferrari.
If he stays at Ferrari he'll never win a championship.
Aston would be the smart move for his future - huge investment and 99% sure they'll have race-winning Honda engines from 2026.
Red Bull may take a step back with the switch to Ford.
And Ferrari will carry on being Ferrari! 🙂
Amazing!
BBC News - Formula 1: Honda to return as Aston Martin engine partner in 2026
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/65682563
This is curious…
Not the paint job itself, just the fact that if you were McLaren and had to commemorate a Monaco win, why would you choose 1984?
Anyway… Aston are looking fairly potent now; I guess you have to hand it to Stroll, he seems to be building all the right stuff. Wonder if Alonso can hang on for another three years…
Yeah, Monaco 1984 was a bit of an embarrassment for McLaren really. You'd think they'd want folk to forget it.
why would you choose 1984?
Because it's the first time they won at Monaco.
why would you choose 1984?
Yeah, 1988 was much more memorable.
Because it’s the first time they won at Monaco.
Ah yes, a somewhat obvious point that I completely overlooked! As you were… 🙂
First few pics are coming out of the Merc upgrade. Looks like undercut sidepods and anti-dive front suspension so far.
multi21
First few pics are coming out of the Merc upgrade.
Got any links?
stumpy01
Full MemberGot any links?
Not good ones yet, this is an artists impression of the sidepod inlet
And the suspension, this is the old one, note the difference between the highlighted shape between the wishbones (yellow) on the ferrari/merc compared to the aston/rb (which have anti-dive)
And the new merc one which has a similar shape to the am/rb
Despite the current car being a bit of a dog I thought it was probably the best looking of the current crop - it looks so mean in this photo from Baku...
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Confirmation of sidepods
And compared to the old ones...
Bloody 'ell - all that wait just for that - they could've knocked that up in a week! Where's the innovation!? 🤣🤣
And Horner will have his smugness level cranked up to 11 this weekend for Mercedes copying (which is probably why Toto didn't push the upgrade button sooner!). 🤣
Where’s the innovation!?
The old one was quite innovative - they got huge downforce numbers from the exposed floor in the windtunnel. Only problem was, they couldn't achieve it consistently on track - when they did, the car was fast, but mostly it was just inconsistent. The new one will channel the airflow differently and better seal the underfloor. It's not innovative because Red Bull got there first, but it should be more consistent. However, that will depend on how well they can generate and control vortices down the side of the car. Apparently, they have also revised the front suspension. That will be to make the aerodynamics more stable. It will be interesting to see if they have followed Red Bull's extreme anti-dive geometry or done something innovative.
^^^ note smileys!
We all knew it was just going to be a copy/same theme. Just a convergence of designs.
I genuinely don't know why they have waited so long though. They must have had this in the wind-tunnel/CFD since the first test last year.
when they did, the car was fast, but mostly it was just inconsistent
I read that trying to solve the porpoising, then suspension, then downforce issues probably masked the fundamental problem that the whole concept wasn't workable in the real world. Apparently the "numbers" showed that it should be just unbelievably quick, and you can imagine that they thought that as these issues came up, solving them would just unleash this tremendously quick car, I guess you can't really blame them for holding out as long as they did. It must burn a bit to have to give it all up, and chuck all that work in the bin
the-muffin-man
they could’ve knocked that up in a week! Where’s the innovation!? 🤣🤣
That would be
-moving the front suspension mount points & completely changing the geometry without homologating a new chassis
-adding sidepods to a design completely optimised not to have them, without affecting the legality of the downwashing SIPS wing or PU cooling.
the-muffin-man
And Horner will have his smugness level cranked up to 11 this weekend
lol no change there then, if he could get his head any further up his own arse he'd be able to pick his nose with his tongue
It'll be interesting to see how this new concept correlates on the track. It's not just an aero facelift, the front suspension geometry is new too - but Wolff is already downplaying any talk of the upgrades being a magic "silver bullet".
Am going to be keeping a close eye on the weather this weekend. A dry race there is usually a snoozefest, if we do see thunderstorms and showers as forecast then we might see an attritional race with fewer gurning celebrities on TV with any luck.
I genuinely don’t know why they have waited so long though.
From my armchair, it made sense for them to spend last year trying everything to make the concept work. But I was rather surprised when they wheeled out a very similar-looking car at the start of this season.
It’s a shame Imola didn’t happen; Monaco is going to tell us pretty much nothing about how well these upgrades will change Merc’s fortunes. (Obviously in the grand scheme of things there are slightly more important considerations around Imola not happening.)
if we do see thunderstorms and showers as forecast then we might see an attritional race with fewer gurning celebrities on TV with any luck.
or *shudders* red flags, delays and more gurning celebrities to fill the time
But I was rather surprised when they wheeled out a very similar-looking car at the start of this season.
I suspect that what happened is that they thought they'd addressed the bouncing issue last year and would be able to unlock the potential of the concept. By the end of last year, they were looking much faster and more consistent. This year's Merc is actually much better than last year's, but I think Red Bull stopped developing their car early last year to focus on this year's car. That caught Merc and Ferrari by surprise so they thought that the improvements they saw in the wind tunnel and simulators would be enough to catch Red Bull. However, Red Bull just spent most of last year developing this year's car so they made a massive gain. Merc must have realized back in March that their aero concept was never going to live up to its theoretical potential, but it's taken them until now to actually bring a new package to the track.
the-muffin-man
Full Member…again – note smileys! 🙂
sorry been a long morning, i thought it was an interesting point anyway
thols2
Merc must have realized back in March that their aero concept was never going to live up to its theoretical potential, but it’s taken them until now to actually bring a new package to the track.
That's also around the time of that rumour that they'd found something wrong with their models/wind tunnel config
W14B only one letter away from greatness 😂
There was all this talk about Mercedes floor flexing due to the lack of pods, but I'm almost certain that's BS. Anyone that's worked with CRFP knows how stiff it can be made and how easily it can be supported. The simple thing for me is that RB with their undercut pods have significantly increased the area of bodywork which can create downforce, yes they pay a parasitic drag penalty, but if you don't have downforce, you're going to pay a drag penalty anyway, but tis will be induced drag and MUCH worse as you'll have to dial it into the wings, so you'll be slower on the straights.
The porpoising was a totally separate phenomenon related to the need for body kinematics coupled to CFD. Mercedes, didn't get the correlation between their suspension, aero and floor position correct, so the car kept stalling its underbody aero before the car bottomed out. They had to run the car higher so they could predict the aero and control the ride height with VERY stiff suspension.
At the end of last year, Mercedes would have the correlation and the numbers to suggest that they would be close to RB with the current package, but RB made HUGE gains and Mercedes must have had an understanding of the development potential of this concept and decided to scrap. it.
Finally, the zero pod design moved the radiators VERY close to the centreline which elongated the drivetrain/thermal package and the pushed the cockpit forward making it harder to drive/balance.
All told, their whole concept was innovative, but flawed as it let to a very specific design without much development potential and a significant set of compromises to achieve it.
This year may fix the aero, but probably not the layout and balance as MUCH more work will be required to repackage all that.
The simple thing for me is that RB with their undercut pods have significantly increased the area of bodywork which can create downforce
Not really. The area in plan view will be the same. However, the Merc had exposed floor area, which is apparently much more effective at generating downforce in the wind tunnel. The Red Bull sidepods with their big undercut is apparently much more effective at creating vortices that seal the floor. Even though it has less downforce when run in optimal conditions in the wind tunnel, it's much more tolerant of changes in ride height. The new Merc sidepod will be intended to replicate that vortex that seals the floor and allow them to run suspension with more travel so they can ride over kerbs the way the Red Bull does.
Daffy
Full MemberThere was all this talk about Mercedes floor flexing due to the lack of pods, but I’m almost certain that’s BS. Anyone that’s worked with CRFP knows how stiff it can be made and how easily it can be supported.
So why add the additional floor stays then?
Yes, that cantilevered floor is always going to be more flexy than a traditional sidepod. It can be made stiff, but only by making it heavier. Even if it's only a kilogram, that's a kilo that they have to lose somewhere else to get down to the weight limit.
The floor was flexing due to porpoising, not the aero - the stay were emplaced to restrict that movement. Others also used stays (Ferrari for example) to stop the floor flexing due to bouncing despite having HUUGE sidepods. Those with less porpoising didn't need them.
I thought it was the other way round (i.e. it causes/contributes to porpoising not caused BY it), as the car's speed increased, air speed through the tunnels increased, therefore suction increased, therefore the floor flexed down. This sealed the floor edge more effectively, which further increasing suction- like a positive feedback loop.
Then of course the car had more load and got lower and lower until it struck the floor and lost downforce, causing it to rise back up and start again
If you look at the internals of the RB sidepods, you will see they have a chunk of billet acting as a floor stabiliser, similar to this one which has just been photographed on the new merc
edit to add, found the redbull one:
The floor was flexing due to porpoising, not the aero
That’s saying that the aero load from that region of the floor is way less than the forces resulting from the mass of that same region being pulled up and down. Given that it’s there to generate downforce and be as low in mass as it can be, I’m not convinced. The cause and effect will be a bit of a vicious circle, though.
Mind you, I’ve not done any aero for over 25 years and when I did it was hardly F1 level, so I’ll accept any reasonable argument that I’m talking out of my hole 🙂
And someone has finally managed to get a shot of the Red Bull floor!…
https://twitter.com/danielealofan/status/1661792609486925824?s=12&t=EQoHg-RGok071Fjc15ZHKw
multi21
I thought it was the other way round (i.e. it causes/contributes to porpoising not caused BY it), as the car’s speed increased, air speed through the tunnels increased, therefore suction increased, therefore the floor flexed down. This sealed the floor edge more effectively, which further increasing suction- like a positive feedback loop.
Then of course the car had more load and got lower and lower until it struck the floor and lost downforce, causing it to rise back up and start again
This was pretty much my understanding of it.
Pics of the Merc look interesting. It's a shame that we're unlikely to see how it really performs at Monaco.
It’s a shame that we’re unlikely to see how it really performs at Monaco.
we'll get to see on Saturday. Although I understand one of the weaknesses of the RB (perhaps its only weakness) is getting the fronts up to temp for qualis, so although the Merc may be faster, I'm expecting that this is one of the few tracks that others might get a chance for the win on Sunday, although having said that, Street circuit and Perez loves a street circuit, and perhaps he'll engineer a short Q3 session again... Sorry, I mean perhaps he'll have an unfortunate accident
Mind you, I’ve not done any aero for over 25 years
If it makes you feel any better, Merc and McLaren have hundreds of highly trained technical staff who can't figure out what their cars are doing either.
Should be proper TV coverage too as F1 have taken control of that now.
Monaco quali on a Friday? Feels weird
Is it?
Sorry, meant to say practice... D'Oh!
Think he means FP1 & 2 - not on a Thursday as was tradition - not even F1 are mad enough to do a sprint race in Monaco! 🤣
Well, seems like a decent first showing for the Merc. Not too far away from the pointy end! 😀
Lewis has just rearranged his new sidepod.
They’ve not kept the underside secret for long… 🤣🤣
https://twitter.com/naturalparadigm/status/1662455517443178498?s=46&t=EQoHg-RGok071Fjc15ZHKw
Ooops! 😬
Camera zoom to the maximum on the underside of that hoisted RB! 😆
There's going to be a hell of a queue to be last car on track for Q2&3
Brilliant Q3, superb sector 3 from max, thought he was in the wall for a moment
Checo must be absolutely gutted
simply lovely qualifying... more excitement in that qualifying than the upcoming race. What a final sector.! Not sure about the w14 upgrades now but we shall see in Spain
Yep - good stuff that - to make up 3/10ths in that last sector was classic hold-your-nerve Monaco stuff!! Well played Max.
Could be fireworks with Alonso alongside though - if Fernando gets in front the train will stretch back from p1 to p20!! 🤣🤣
3 place grid drop for Charles impeding noris
Ferrari, innit—if Charles doesn’t stick it in the wall, the team’s there to drop the bollock instead:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.leclerc-hit-with-three-place-grid-penalty-for-impeding-norris-in-monaco.2OJL1fzUqp8U5vQqhXEzG3.html
Might be the usual train tomorrow, but lap 1 at least could be a humdinger…
if Fernando gets in front the train will stretch back from p1 to p20!!
How do you figure that out? The Aston is one of the fastest cars.
I’m glad I watch quali. That was great. The race will be over by the 1st time through casino square
Reference to last years race!…
https://the-race.com/formula-1/unapologetic-alonsos-canny-monaco-gp-tactics-explained/
Well that got crazy for a while! Max was so close to binning it several times, and what were Aston doing with the ‘mediums’ call? That was the chance…
Aye, shame AM didn’t wing the inters on 1st time around. Would have been nip and tuck with Verstappen.
Currently watching the Indy 500. More overtakes in 1 lap than the entire Monaco GP! 🤣. About to be a restart following a nasty red flag incident so could get spicy. Wheel came off a car completely and went in between two grandstands 😳. Very surprising and scary, wheel tether failed almost instantly.
Only the second Indy I've watched, way more entertzining than F1. 8 lap shootout FTW... 🙂
Another red flag.. Gonna be a 1 lap shoot out at this rate! Seems like being 1st at the restart is a curse around here 😬
Well deserved dotd for ocon.
I watched the c4 highlights but it seemed like a good race (as Monaco goes anyway!)
Aye, shame AM didn’t wing the inters on 1st time around. Would have been nip and tuck with Verstappen.
pitting a lap before Verstappen - 20s advantage to the inters
extra pit ~ 15s at Monaco iirc?
Alonso would’ve got him - bit gutted they made an arse of the strategy they’d be planning on since the start
Yeah, it didn’t seem like winging it when they made the call, it seemed like inters were the nailed-on good choice from my armchair. Baffled as to why they went for mediums. Similarly baffled as to why Haas dragged out the hards for so long. Less baffled by the customary bollock-dropping from Ferrari. Sainz doesn’t sound a happy boy; wonder what the unbroadcast(able?) radio message would have been when Leclerc weaved in front him on the in-lap. Wonder if Ricciardo’s getting a sniff of a seat after this weekend…
Currently watching the Indy 500. More overtakes in 1 lap than the entire Monaco GP!
On a track the width of a runway.
Can I just say; Stroll and Sainz are driving here in EXACTLY the same way that I drive around Monaco in the wet on my version of X-Box F1-20. I feel vindicated somehow.
nickewen
Free Member
Currently watching the Indy 500. More overtakes in 1 lap than the entire Monaco GP! 🤣. About to be a restart following a nasty red flag incident so could get spicy. Wheel came off a car completely and went in between two grandstands 😳. Very surprising and scary, wheel tether failed almost instantly.
Jeez, watched the extended NBC highlights and some of the pitstops where shambolic.
Surprised mechanics aren't regularly ran over if those driving standards were typical.
At least two drives immediately drove into the inner pit wall accelerating away on new tyres and one team driver managed to drive into their team mate in the pits...
At least two drives immediately drove into the inner pit wall accelerating away on new tyres and one team driver managed to drive into their team mate in the pits…
I tried watching the 500, but like every American sporting event I try to watch, I fell asleep. I woke in time for the rookie Starfish or whatever his name was put it into the wall, then one of the lead cars get taken out in the pits by another losing control.
I think PC Blundell pointed out they don’t use tyre warmers. There was, I think talk of stopping use of tyre warmers in F1.
Oh and those cars are gopping.
That screen really doesn't help, from the side I think they look quite neat though - but gopping from the front! - there's talk of them moving to a halo system for the next car...
[img] 
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But as for actual racing, Indycar is winning hands-down at the minute, as is WEC. F1 has lost the plot - new cars aren't providing an exciting spectacle. They look lumbering great things.
F1 tyre blanket ban is set for 2024, but it's not confirmed yet. And WEC cars launching themselves off the track on cold tyres in Spa may make them have a rethink...
And WEC cars launching themselves off the track on cold tyres in Spa may make them have a rethink…
It's made the WEC have a rethink - tyre heating ovens are back for Le Mans.