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Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 championship (but not Ferrari). No penalties for the 1998 season.
Briatore and Symonds were both banned after the Singapore Crashgate scandal.
Vettel got a 10 second stop-go for the Baku incident
Schumacher got absolutely nothing for his parking at Mirabeau (sp?) or Adelaide 94 (may have had the benefit of the doubt at Adelaide but then Jerez 97 took away any doubt IMO)
Senna/Prost 89 and 90, Senna got a DSQ for rejoining in an incorrect way🤷♂️
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That’s it off the top of my head, anyone else got any others?
Only 2 of those are comparable imo, Singapore and Schumacher’s half-arsed Monaco parking job. I see jest of the moment running into drivers stuff differently (although maybe not Senna taking out Prost in turn 1 as he’d basically told people he was going to do it). Quite a difference in what was dished out as you say. The Checo one is more Schumacher-esque as it wasn’t driven by the committee decision, but he did also give the wall a thump. Of course, would the FIA have the stones to do anything significant anyway?
Do we think that had anyone else but Vettel invited all the current drivers to a celebratory dinner, they’d have all showed up?
According to Andrew Benson, it was Hamilton's idea, and he picked up the tab!
Do we think that had anyone else but Vettel invited all the current drivers to a celebratory dinner, they’d have all showed up?
What an amazing photo!!
Yes – that famous crash the no-one even commented on at the time!
Quite!!
The Chequered Flag podcast is interesting...there's a whole load about the team orders thing. Andrew Benson (who is usually pretty reliable) says his sources in Red Bull have told him that Perez has previously admitted to Horner and Marko that he did crash deliberately at Monaco!
I rewatched the video and he didn't seem to go out of his way to correct the breakaway.
Andrew Benson (who is usually pretty reliable) says his sources in Red Bull have told him that Perez has previously admitted to Horner and Marko that he did crash deliberately at Monaco!
Trouble is that it is coming from Red Bull, the same team who said the let Perez through call came from the last corner not turn four as shown on the coverage. And to stuff it up so conclusively would be a risky manoeuvre IMO.
Great drive from Charles to get second overall!
A bit dusty watching Vettel at the end. I didn't take too him in his early days, but he's ended as a rounded and very well respected F1 Driver. Happy bloody retirement Seb!
Any chance Vettel could be RB third driver.. they really could do with some good PR. Unfortunately the current crop of drivers all seem to lack charisma bar Lando.
Any chance Vettel could be RB third driver..
Well, no, cos that's Ricciardo's job next year, which I still think is a very strange move (or a stroke of genius if he gets to replace Perez.....)
Dull dull dull with an ageing Red Bull fan boy commentary. What's to like?
I was gobsmacked (sarcasm) with how few (ie none) questions were asked regarding Verstappen helping Perez to 3rd in the championship! A quality team mate!!
Yeah it's so striking how differently the 2 Red Bull spokesmen portray the situation to every other pundit. It's kind of sad in a way that Whisper films (or whatever it's called) get to produce the C4 highlights when their owner (Coulthard) is so biased.
Got to agree - I listen live on 5live radio, which is excellent, then watch the highlights, which just annoy me. Not even well edited anymore, and the Red bull bias is beyond a joke now
At least Webber brought up the subject of Verstappen maybe backing up LeClerc, thought they were just going to completely ignore that option.
Perez did choke though. The 2 failed overtakes were enough to hand over 2nd place, then catching Gasly and Albon where he did finished the job (obviously that part wasn’t his fault, although if he’d been 2 seconds further up the road . . .)
Great to see Hamilton give Perez a bit of payback.
Anyhow, looking back to page 1...
One team will get the rules worked out and will make step up from the 2021 order for at least the first 5-6 races (maybe McLaren or Ferrari)
One team will get the rules hopelessly wrong and be way off the pace (Haas/Alfa/Williams)
Merc will lose the WDC because they have 2 drivers taking points off each other, Max to actually win his first title
After all the hype, new cars won’t look anything like the FIA’s mock up
Not too bad - sort of called Ferrari getting it right for a but, didn't expect merc to be the ones who got it wrong, expected max to win but against different (some?) opposition, am so used to the cars I've forgotten what the FIA mockup looked like.
Given that Perez holding up Hamilton made arguably an impact on Verstappen getting the title in '21 on this track just 12 months ago the comment seems a wee bit shortsighted.
Verstappen doesn't help himself does he?
Noted that he recieved a fair amount of boo’s during the interviews, so it’s not just STW that take a dim view of him.
Cruising out front, nothing to lose yet couldn’t help his team mate - again. I hope he’s not planning a holiday to Mexico during the break.
Did not foresee how badly Merc would get it wrong, but otherwise a pretty predictable season. From page 1:
Merc and Red Bull have invested heavily in simulation, plus they have the manufacturing facilities to turn out revised aero kits very quickly. Even if they start off a bit behind, I expect those two teams will be right at the front next year.
Ferrari have excellent infrastructure, their engine should be close to the front, and they have probably been able to focus more resources on next year’s car than the front two. I think they will be top three again next year, quite possibly challenging for the championship.
McLaren don’t have the resources of the top three teams yet, but they will have been focusing on next year, not this year. They will have a fully competitive engine, so I guess probably somewhere from third to fifth next year. Similar with Renault, they are still rebuilding and their engine is a bit of an unknown, so probably fourth or fifth.
Alpha Tauri should be a solid mid-field car again, but they just don’t have the infrastructure to keep up with the bigger teams. If Tsunoda can find some consistency, anywhere from fourth to seventh.
Aston Martin showed this year that their technical department is a long way from the top teams. They obviously did not understand the car that they copied from Merc and didn’t know how to overcome the penalty of the new rules. They have two decent drivers, but I can’t see them being better than sixth to eighth fastest.
thols2
Free MemberDid not foresee how badly Merc would get it wrong,
Yeah I thought somebody would cock it up badly, but i never thought it would be Merc.
That said, bloody impressive to go from that undriveable looking spacehopper to a car that won a race on pure pace.
Congratulations to Max and Red Bull on a phenominal Season. 15 wins is incredable considering he started with 2 dnfs, he is on a different Level,pity Ferrari never gave him more of a fight ,hopfully they will be closer next year so we can see some good racing between Max and Charles.
Checo blew it yesterday didnt deserve 2nd , wasnt a lot Max could have done really .
Congratulations to Max and Red Bull on a phenominal Season. 15 wins is
incredablepredictable considering he started with 2 years and £ms more development than everyone elsednfs
FTFY
wasnt a lot Max could have done really .
Possibly not have been an arse last weekend? But as others have said - I can't see the fuss over 2nd place.
It's just been a flat season for me. The new cars promised so much, but failed to deliver excitement.
Anyway...looking forward to Oct next year when we see who has overspent this season! 🙂
Noted that he recieved a fair amount of boo’s during the interviews, so it’s not just STW that take a dim view of him.
I'm pretty sure that they boo whoever is winning, I remember it starting with Vettel and continuing with Hamilton. I find it a bit lame tbh
So… what’s the likelihood that the whole Perez/Monaco thing blows up out of proportion, Red Bull and Perez get stung with an FIA investigation, Perez is dumped and Ricciardo is back on the grid?
Probably a thousand to one. But I were forced to put a fiver on a thousand-to-one shot, that’d be where I’d put it 😉
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Checo replaced by Silverstone if the gap between himself and MV are as wide as this season, and Merc being closer.
The new cars promised so much, but failed to deliver excitement.
I disagree. The way the cars are able to run together is like a different world compared to how things were just a year ago. Lap after lap of close running versus several seconds of dirty air behind each car and tyres getting burned up just trying to get close. Hopefully someone comes out with some intersting overtakes stats for the year
So… what’s the likelihood that the whole Perez/Monaco thing blows up out of proportion, Red Bull and Perez get stung with an FIA investigation, Perez is dumped and Ricciardo is back on the grid?
That possibility is obviously why Red Bull are trying to shut it all down. Let's face it, if the FIA do investigate, they will have to either protect Perez and piss Verstappen off or throw Perez under the bus. If they throw Perez under the bus then they will likely face fines or punishment for concealing that their driver cheated. Utter no-win situation for Red Bull.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Checo replaced by Silverstone if the gap between himself and MV are as wide as this season, and Merc being closer.
He just has to take enough points off Merc or Ferrari drivers to help Max and he's earned his salary. Red Bull don't want a situation like Hamilton versus Rosberg or Hamilton versus Alonso where their drivers are destabilizing the team.
I'm not sure it can be blown out of proportion. Deliberately smashing a racing car to pieces is probably the most stupid thing I could think of a driver doing. Its cheating, it risks injury to the driver, it costs the team precious budget, it could use up gearboxes, ICEs, etc, it risks injury to marshals or anyone else trackside, it can lead to unnecessary barrier repairs, it just bloody holds everything up and its cheating (again)
It's the quality of passes that does it for me, not quantity! 🙂
I just think these cars look heavy, cumbersome and a bit dull. Rear wings are ugly too! 🤣
Utter no-win situation for Red Bull.
There's a shame.
the-muffin-man
Full Member
It’s the quality of passes that does it for me, not quantity! 🙂I just think these cars look heavy, cumbersome and a bit dull. Rear wings are ugly too! 🤣
To have quality passes you at least need to have some passes, and F1 has been dire for years in this regard. I could see them starting to turn down the DRS effect quite soon now with these regs
They've been overweight and cumbersome for years now, but this years cars look a lot better than a load of last years uglies (imo of course). Rear wings are ugly though
I’m not sure it can be blown out of proportion. Deliberately smashing a racing car to pieces is probably the most stupid thing I could think of a driver doing.
Aye, fair point.
Let’s face it, if the FIA do investigate, they will have to either protect Perez and piss Verstappen off or throw Perez under the bus.
Well there’s only one route they’ll take there, although having to stick Ricciardo in the vacant seat might piss Verstappen off anyway 🙂
Apparently Max was instrumental in bringing Danny Ric in.
Not sure he’d shed a tear over the loss of Perez
While I'm at it I don't like the wheelcovers either - an open 18" wheel with glowing brake discs would look miles better! Glowing discs, another bit of the experience lost. 🙂
I know they were introduced to stop outwash.
Re DRS - why not get rid of the DRS zones altogether? Give the drivers say 30 uses per race but they could use it anywhere. Could open up new overtaking areas and spice things up a bit. Giving opportunities to the skilled, brave or stupid!
Drivers just wait for the DRS zone now. Why risk a move when you can sail past.
Had to do a double take when I saw this image 😀
I’m not sure it can be blown out of proportion. Deliberately smashing a racing car to pieces is probably the most stupid thing I could think of a driver doing.
Latifi got away with it for 3 seasons! 🤣
Best overtake of the season?
Lewis overtakes leclerc and Perez
george vs leclerc
Finally vettel on maggo in the last lap of COTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik0LVXFYss
have we done how nice the Aston Martin looks without livery?
Alonso testing at Abu Dhabi in sponsor-less car
I thought that was common knowledge so surprised RBR have only just announced it. Another leak from the team, perhaps they'll blame Toto again.
Here's my season review of everyone for anyone who's interested, feel free to contradict me if you think you've got a better one.
Drivers of the year - Norris and Russel, honourable mentions to Magnussen and Zhou.
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Verstappen. Last year he seemed desperate, this year he seems to have calmed down a lot. I felt like he deserved the championship this time, he was clearly in a league of his own. Then he has moments like Brazil and reminds everyone what a prize bellend he can be. Still feels he has something to prove against Hamilton I think.
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Perez. I'm a big fan of Checo, he seems to be doing a great job in the poison chalice seat. His pole lap at Jedah was simply phenomenonal. He seems to rise above the RB politicking and whinging and just get on with it. Great bloke, but not as quick as Max. However, if the deliberate crash rumours are true (anyone saying this other than Max?) then he should be out on his ear and not come back
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LeClerc. Properly quick over one lap, but can he handle the pressure? Too many mistakes for a championship contender. Not helped by Ferrari making there own errors. He's good, but not Hamilton/Verstappen good.
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Sainz. Couple of silly lap one incidents but generally dependable. Great drive at Silverstone, ruthless when he had his big chance. If Ferrari can get their act together could he beat LeClerc to a title? He's not as quick but seems less error prone and he's better at strategy calls than his team!
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Hamilton. His worst F1 season ever. Seemed to be lacking a bit early on (was he testing stuff while Russel was getting the banker points?) but looked like he'd got his mojo back in the second half of the year. With more development time for Merc than for RB and Ferrari could he challenge for the title next year?
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Russel. In at the deep end against someone with a legitimate claim to be the GOAT and he stood up pretty well! Super consistent, minimal errors and withstood the pressure when his big chance arrived. Could he beat Hamilton in a title race? Probably not, but he would be a worthy successor when Hamilton retires.
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Alonso. Still got it, even at his age. His drive at COTA was one of the best of the year. But still has a knack for causing chaos within the team.
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Ocon. Almost the forgotten driver, not much stands out about him in my mind but he's beaten Alonso in the championship so he's doing something right! Now Alonso has left expect Alpine to be front runners next year 🤣
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Norris. Continues to impress. Consistently best of the rest, only driver outside the big three teams to get a podium and his quali record against Ricardo is outstanding.
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Ricciardo. I like him, a lot, and F1 will be much poorer place without him on the grid. But he has underperformed during his time at McLaren. Seems to be a really nice bloke but I think they were entirely justified in getting rid of him. Whether he's lost it or just never gelled with car for some reason we'll have to see.
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Bottas. Outqualifying Russel in Bahrain must have been really satisfying. Great start to the year then faded away a bit (how often have we said that about him? Except this year it wasn't a championship lead fading away)
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Zhou. I was pleasantly surprised by him. A pay driver brought in ahead of arguably more deserving talent like DeVries, Piastri, Illot, he rose to the occasion and put in a creditable performance against a decent teammate. His money may have got him into F1 but I think he's earned the right to stay on merit.
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Vettel. End of an era. I think like Kimi, and maybe Alonso, he should have quit while he was ahead, former champs fighting to get out of Q1 seems a bit peculiar. Maybe he just really likes being in F1 but it can't be as much fun as fighting for podiums.
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Stroll. Midway through the 2020 season he was laying fourth in the standings. I know the Aston isn't as good as that year's Tracing Point but I also feel Stroll isn't performing as he did either. Bit complacent? How unsackable is he?
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Magnussen. Didn't even have a drive a couple of weeks before the season, but then really impressed in a decidedly average car (although average is a massive step forward for Haas!) Seems to be really enjoying himself and that pole lap was sublime, really happy for him.
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Schumacher. Not so impressed. Far too many errors, and ultimately not as fast as Kmag, despite improving in the second half of the year. Looks like he was flattered by Mazapin making him look good last year!
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Gasly. Bit disappointed with him this year. He's been one of my drivers of the year the last couple of years but nothing he's done has really stood out this year. OK, the AT hasn't been as good but even so, a mediocre year at best. Hopefully getting out of the RB family and to somewhere with prospects will do him good.
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Tsunoda. Same problem as Galsy in that the AT wasn't as good as last year's one but I feel Yuki has matured a bit, less public moaning and weird radio stuff, more just getting on with it. I was wondering about his position last year, I think now they were right to keep him for next year.
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Albon. Big shoes to fill with Russel leaving after three years but he's stood up to the challenge pretty well. Another one who seems like a really nice bloke, I'm pleased he's back in F1, will hopefully get another chance in a front running team one day.
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Lattifi. Not really covered himself in glory, despite his late points getting up from 21st to 20th in a 20 car field... Outclassed by both his teammates .
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DeVries. Mighty impressive. Unfamiliar car and getting points in it at the first attempt, probably as good as Albon is in a car he knows well. So good to finally see him get a proper seat, I've been saying he should have one for years
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Hulkenburg. He's OK, and the Aston wasn't great this year so he did what was expected of him, but he's never going to set the world alight. I can't help thinking that taking a punt on Illot or Schwarzman would be a better bet for Haas next year. Nico hasn't done anything wrong, he's just a bit forgettable.
Bit of an aside but I like what this guy has been doing with concept art of classic liveries on 2022 style cars...
Hamilton. His worst F1 season ever.
Merc produced a very difficult car that they didn't understand. Hamilton spent the first half of the year experimenting with setup to try and understand the car. When the car was remotely competitive, Hamilton looked just as good as he's ever been.
Ferrari had to turn down their engines after the opening races because of reliability concerns. Leclerc was driving on the ragged edge because his car wasn't as good as the Red Bull. Insane strategy decisions didn't help, Leclerc is a much better driver than the scoreboard alone shows.
I'm guessing that every team has Norris on their short list of who they'd like to have in the future. He really made that McLaren look much better than it deserved.
Ricciardo is clearly a very fast driver when he has a car that suits him, but he just doesn't seem to be able to adapt to a difficult car the way that Norris has and that Hamilton and Alonso have done many times over the years. Reminds me of Vettel's final year at Red Bull when the car didn't suit him and Ricciardo made him look very average.
Perez never looked like a contender. Sure, Max has priority in the team, but that's because he's in a different league to Perez. I think he will have to lift his game a lot next year to keep the seat.
Perez never looked like a contender.
Given that he's driving "essentially" the same car that won 15 GP with his (admittedly) much more talented team mate, it reveals the lack of ability in somewhat bold terms.
Surely Perez isn't supposed to be a contender for the championship, just do enough so Verstappen wins it. Perez was 2nd or first 6 or 7 times in 2022 (I could be wrong, I haven't checked) so he's clearly not rubbish. If he was any better, he would be a contender, which will just cause problems for Red Bull managing it.
so he’s clearly not rubbish.
No, of course not, but the normal comparison is with your teammate (as like I said you're in the same car) and I don't suppose that they were vastly different. I think it shows just how good drivers like Verstappen are. Yes, as the team developed the car, Max could handle it better than Perez, but unlike say the McLaren pairing of Prost and Senna when they often disappeared into the distance and had a private race between them while everyone else battled for third, this year that was largely Verstaeppen on his own.
The problem for Red Bull is that Perez got beaten by Leclerc. It wasn't a big deal this year because Max romped off into the distance, but if Red Bull are battling with a close competitor like last year, they need Perez to finish ahead of Ferrari and Merc so he is taking points off Max's championship rival. They also need him to qualify close enough to Max that he can help with strategy. If he qualifies 6th and spends the race battling with the Alpines and McLarens, he's not much help strategy-wise.
Yes, but it's difficult getting the balance right: Fast enough to take points from other teams but not fast enough to threaten Max.
Confirmed - Binotto resigned from TP position @ Ferrari
Note sure if he'll take another role.
They need to get Ross Brawn back!
Binotto out at Ferrari. He started as an engine guy, wonder if there are any new engine manufacturers who might want to hire a guy with his resume?
Binotto out at Ferrari.
Is it confirmed he's leaving the organisation entirely?
It sounds like it from his quote. I guess it would be untenable for him to take on a lower level role e.g. technical director at this point.
If Vasseur does take over as expected, he apparently is firmly in favour of having a No 1 driver. Assuming that's Leclerc, how will Sainz take that?!
Is it confirmed he’s leaving the organisation entirely?
From the link above, “With the regret that this entails, I have decided to conclude my collaboration with Ferrari,” said Binotto.
“I am leaving a company that I love, which I have been part of for 28 years, with the serenity that comes from the conviction that I have made every effort to achieve the objectives set.
He started as an engine guy, wonder if there are any new engine manufacturers who might want to hire a guy with his resume?
...hmmm - perhaps with a team who are also a bit cheaty! 🤣
Someone at Autosport has a sense of humour at least
https://twitter.com/Motorsport/status/1599498045338488832
Binotto out at Ferrari. He started as an engine guy, wonder if there are any new engine manufacturers who might want to hire a guy with his resume?
My money is on him popping up at Audi
My money is on him popping up at Audi
That's my guess too.
Is Seidl set to be the Danny Ricciardo of team bosses?
https://twitter.com/wearetherace/status/1602577376134811649
(Isn't this on the 2023 thread? Should this one quietly die?)
Christ, we haven't resolved who should be 2021 champion yet.
Best part of the season for me.
Oh god that Mohammed Ben Sulayem but is absolutely excruciating!!
Vasseur at Ferrari Wil be a good thing, changing management at Ferrari every few years has delivered excellent results over the last 17 years. Whereas those teams that have stuck with the same management such as red bull and mercedes have had a pretty disappointing run.