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It's a shame...this F1 thread used to be a safe haven from some of the unpleasantness that creeps into many other long-running threads on STW. Of course, there were disagreements but not really any bitchiness, just robust polite discussion between F1 fans.
Sadly, one person has now ruined it.
edit.
deleted post, but i have a question
the commentator on sky, does it annoy anyone else when he describes every overtake or racing or race or season as a battle?
Of course, there were disagreements but not really any bitchiness, just robust polite discussion between F1 fans.
Sadly that's the way of any open f1 comments section these days. It got worse after AD but there was already a nasty turn to the language used by certain "fans" from different factions. F1 fans always had their heroes and villains but the current level of extreme tribalism, bile and vitriol (again from several directions) is wearing me down.
I'd manged to avoid news of the race until I watched it this evening but had seen this thread being active so knew that something was up. Shame that the race for the win was affected by the first clash, also that Leclerc got tangled up with norris. Last lap? Well that's for Horner to deal with and for us to observe the consequences - if there are any.
Oh and great result for George, alonso showing he can still use what he's got (if it keeps working) and shame for kmag to be on the receiving end of the honey badger.
the commentator on sky, does it annoy anyone else when he describes every overtake or racing or race or season as a battle?
Yes, "they're going wheel to wheel"
No they're not driver b drives past driver a due to the tow, DRS and probably better grip out of the last corner due to a tyre offset.
Trying to create drama, which is understandable. I certainly couldn't do that job.
alonso showing he can still use what he’s got (if it keeps working…
…and he remembers to steer before driving into the back of his teammate) 🙂
I did chuckle at his ranting after that. Silly chap.
Sadly, one person has now ruined it.
TBH the previous thread went downhill too.
True
Perez deliberately binning it in Monaco qualifying just doesn't make much sense to me. Seems completely out of character for a driver who's always appeared to play fair.
However, after Checo won the race I seem to remember Jos being very upset that RB hadn't done more to get Max into the lead either through pit stop strategy or backing Sainz up more to allow an overtake. Don't remember the race well enough to know if either approach was viable, but that seems a more obvious (although still unreasonable) reason to hold a grudge to me.
Anyhow, with Vettel retiring, what are the odds on him taking a seat at Top Gear? Replacing either Freddie or Paddy (or preferably both).
What a sad little place this forum is becoming.
Apparently, Perez likes a more neutral feeling car, while Verstappen doesn’t.
As the car has been developed over the season it has got more over-steery to suit Max’s driving style & this has been to the detriment of Perez.
The development direction wasn't to favour Max, it was to make the car faster. A lot of it apparently came from weight reduction. The faster car is trickier to drive on the limit, with better front end grip and a loose rear end. Max can handle that better than Perez.
I don't think anybody seriously doubts that Max is a faster driver than Perez and that's why the team favours him - he's the one who's going to win the titles. However, this petulant nonsense was completely unnecessary, it reflects badly on his character as a person.
Anyhow, with Vettel retiring, what are the odds on him taking a seat at Top Gear?
Why on Earth would he lower himself?
So Ferrari ran out of spendies...! 🙂
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-f1-development-freeze-money-upgrades/10400101/
Oh dear, it looks like the Max vs Checo thing is going to rumble on for a while.
Does anybody remember how long Perez' contract has left to run? Could be very nice timing for Danny becoming their reserve driver!!
Not so subtle dig at Red Bull (and FIA) there by Ferrari.
Urgh, The Netflix series has (I think) a lot to answer for all of this crap on SM. Editing it's F1 coverage in a way that's created a soap opera filled with "goodies and baddies" like wrestling. There's way too many BOT/Stan accounts on any number of sites that have nothing beyond hate for the driver they've chosen to dislike for whatever reason.
Crazy.
I keep seeing the headline on F1.com, “Horner maintains Verstappen will ‘fully support’ Perez bid for P2 after team orders controversy in Sao Paulo” and all I can hear is “but this time, I do want him to go down in the fourth”.
Reports say Binotti is being replaced by Vaseur.....
Reports say Binotti is being replaced by Vaseur…..
Not sure that's a step forward to be honest!
Both have had same results this season - fast out of the blocks then faded rapidly. 🙂
Binotto's sacking officially confirmed.
https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/status/1592526203562385411
Max has clearly stated that he will support Perez... but only if he doesn't have to slow down, give up positions or do anything which may in any way shape or form compromise his total time in the GP. What a tool.
I've always given MV the benefit of the doubt, but this just takes the cake. He had literally nothing to lose and everything to gain, in that he had no chance of winning (so increasing his win share this year) and had he helped Perez Secure P2, he might have been totally free to go for the win next week without upsetting the team.
Complete selfish, shortsighted idiot doing anything so as not to upset his Daddy.
Oh dear, it looks like the Max vs Checo thing is going to rumble on for a while.
Was that article written by a 12 year old? Among other terrible bits of writing..
Nevertheless, the comment made by Kumpen defending her son for betraying Perez has fumed the F1 fans.
I must admit that my attention wasn't fully on the race but I don't recall this bit...
Staring on medium tyres after the safety car, Perez found himself falling down the grid until eventually, his own teammate overtook him.
But Verstappen was given the pass on Perez on a condition. Both the drivers were told that if the 2-time world champion was not able to pass Fernando Alonso in P5, he would swap places with the Mexican.
Was that arranged by radio?
Was that article written by a 12 year old? Among other terrible bits of writing..
No but the writer is Indian. I think it's just non-standard English plus a bit of social media-itis. I didn't pick the article in particular, it's just the first one i found which had a working picture of the instgram post from Max's mum about Checo cheating on his wife after monaco.
Regarding the team orders, yes that's correct. I think they said if he can get onto Leclerc, he could keep the place, otherwise give it back to checo. But he refused.
edit- i was nearly right, from the transcript:
So don’t fight Max. If on the last lap you’re together we’ll swap back.
Regarding the team orders, yes that’s correct. I think they said if he can get onto Leclerc, he could keep the place, otherwise give it back to checo. But he refused.
edit- i was nearly right, from the transcript:
So don’t fight Max. If on the last lap you’re together we’ll swap back.
I was peeling potatoes and making Sunday roast so I must have missed that!
Hulk to Haas. Looks like the end for Mick
Double post! Link here though
pleased to see Hulk back mind you
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63649394
Mick seems like a likeable guy, but he's certainly not had a great season with lots of unforced errors.
Didn't Magnussen famously tell Nico to "suck his balls" live on air during a press interview? Should be an interesting pairing. They'll certainly push one another.
Hulkenberg's an unusual driver. He comprehensively thumped Sainz in 2018, but was demolished by Riciardo in the following season, whilst Sainz and Norris were equally matched, but then Norris battered Riciardo...It's all a bit confusing. I suppsoe Norris was in his rookie years and still had the measure of Sainz, and thus maybe had the beating of DR.
Despite the points saying otherwise on races where they both finished, Hulkenberg was also better than Perez in 2016.
Sensible from Haas IMO - if they build a decent car they should be mid-field constructors by the end of next season.
Michael has been the only good Schumacher so far. Mick was average at best.
BBC Sounds have done a podcast about Malaren/Ferrari Spygate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0dgcsr4
Michael has been the only good Schumacher so far. Mick was average at best.
From what I remember, Ralf was a decent driver. Not as good as Michael, but that's a very standard to compare anyone to.
Well, I'm probably alone in this, but I can't help thinking there must be better drivers around than Hulkenberg. Ok, Mick may not be it, but surely they can do better than a 38 year old who holds the record for most starts without a podium....
Oh and for anyone interested this week's "beyond the grid" podcast interviews Vettel....he's usually a very good interviewee.
there must be better drivers around than Hulkenberg.
He gives a "good interview" I've never been that impressed with him either.
Hulkenberg’s an unusual driver. He comprehensively thumped Sainz in 2018, but was demolished by Riciardo in the following season, whilst Sainz and Norris were equally matched, but then Norris battered Riciardo…It’s all a bit confusing
I think some of the bigger drivers have struggled with the heavier cars and minimum weights in the past.
Well, I’m probably alone in this, but I can’t help thinking there must be better drivers around than Hulkenberg.
Trouble is the junior series aren't producing mega talent at the minute, and those who do show promise are on other teams junior programmes.
Hulk isn't the best, but he will consistently bring in the points.
Superlicence rules should be relaxed so they could pop one of the leading Indy drivers in.
there must be better drivers around than Hulkenberg.
I think he's considered to be a safe choice. He's never going to be champion, but he's mature and isn't going to bin it every week like rookies tend to do, and he's fast enough to pick up points when opportunity arises.
Yeah, I listened to an interview with Gunther yesterday and he was saying the Hass' target is a return to the front of the mid table - like 2018 when they finished 5th. I can understand having a driver combo like Magnusson (who was a driver in 2018) and Hulkenberg being a solid choice for them.
Hulkenburg and Magnusson is a really boring line up. At least if you keep the young driver there’s a chance/hope that they have a breakthrough, these guys aren’t going anywhere
At least if you keep the young driver there’s a chance/hope that they have a breakthrough, these guys aren’t going anywhere
The Ferrari junior programme is short of talent (and that's where Haas juniors would come from) - and let's be honest two years in F1 is enough time to prove you're good enough. You should be pretty much ready for F1 by the time you get to F1 - it isn't a training ground.
In the absence of a Ferrari junior there would be nothing to stop them looking elsewhere (like they've just done). Not sure who that would be mind you, would imagine getting someone from Indycar would appeal to Gene Haas, but superlicence issues aren't helping there. Seems like people coming through sportcars is no longer a thing these days?
it isn’t a training ground.
Better a training ground than, potentially, making up the numbers
At least if you keep the young driver
I'm not massively un-happy that the trend for younger and younger drivers is tailing off TBH. There's masses of talent certainly, but the pressure F1 drivers are underdoes take a toll on them, It used to be that you could spend some time building a career either in lower ranked teams of formulas, but these guys are being snapped up out of the junior ranks (where there's literally no pressure at all) into an arena that's massively over-pressured. They get one maybe two seasons (if they're lucky) and if they don't succeed than their career's are effectively over. See Latifi, Schumacher and to a lesser extent Zhou, Tsunoda, Albon
F1 could do with reversing the trend that chews through young drivers IMO
Yes, I'd rather have a hot new thing than Hulk - but Hulk will brings in points and (hopefully!) not cost the team millions in repair bills.
Mick isn't hot or consistent and he's costly. And with the cost-cap now that loss of money hurts development.
thols2
I think he’s considered to be a safe choice. He’s never going to be champion, but he’s mature and isn’t going to bin it every week like rookies tend to do, and he’s fast enough to pick up points when opportunity arises.
Also I've read a couple of times from different teammates of his that he is very consistent and excellent at giving feedback so valuable for developing the car.
Wonder if he and Maggo have really buried the hatchet?
Wonder if he and Maggo have really buried the hatchet?
Yeah there's definitely no bad blood between them and they're looking forward to working together. Same as Ocon/Gasly or Perez/Verstappen - they've all said so in press releases 😀
F1 could do with reversing the trend that chews through young drivers IMO
This. The truly remarkable will adapt and thrive, but lots of capable drivers being promoted too quickly and spat out the back.
Also I’ve read a couple of times from different teammates of his that he is very consistent and excellent at giving feedback so valuable for developing the car.
That's what they need, a couple of drivers to help develop a quicker car, which you can't guarantee Johnny Next-Big-Thing will be able to do.
pondo
This. The truly remarkable will adapt and thrive, but lots of capable drivers being promoted too quickly and spat out the back.
Yeah I think this is also where we miss out by having only 20 cars on the grid.
Also the testing limits probably don't help. BITD the reserve drivers could be running hundreds of laps before getting anywhere near a race seat. I know the sims are pretty good now, but there's nothing better than getting in the actual car.
BITD the reserve drivers could be running hundreds of laps before getting anywhere near a race seat.
Teams can and still do that - just in older cars. Think they can even use 2021 cars now as they have no technical relevance now to 2022 cars.
Alpine did loads for Piasti - which is one reason they were so annoyed he went to McLaren!...
https://f1i.com/news/431472-piastri-alpine-test-program-speaks-volumes-about-their-belief.html
If Haas isn't being paid to take and nurture a young driver then there's no benefit to them except cost in crashes and fewer points. So I understand why Mick S has been dropped in favour of someone more reliable.
I do think Hulk has had his time though. like Kmag and a few others on the grid.
Hopefully Mick realises motorsport is bigger than the F1 bubble and seeks out a successful career in sportscars which is onto bigger and better things.
Teams can and still do that – just in older cars. Think they can even use 2021 cars now as they have no technical relevance now to 2022 cars.
Alpine did loads for Piasti – which is one reason they were so annoyed he went to McLaren!…
Different sort of testing though. They were testing current machinery before, so adding value to the team as a whole. Now just testing the driver and costing money
If Haas isn’t being paid to take and nurture a young driver then there’s no benefit to them except cost in crashes and fewer points.
Get young driver, nurture driver, sell drivers contract to bigger team, £££ (disclaimer: obviously doesn’t work like that of taking on someone from a development programme)
To summarize,
"Max was asked to move and he said he didn't want to. We said 'OK'.
Look! Social Mediums!"
As expected from the team of petty whining
BBC Sounds have done a podcast about Malaren/Ferrari Spygate
The Pink bike Podcast has interviewed Bottas and his girlfriend who is a pro road cyclist talking about their love of all things bikes
the-muffin-man
Teams can and still do that – just in older cars. Think they can even use 2021 cars now as they have no technical relevance now to 2022 cars.
Sure but i was talking about them testing the current car so the young driver could step in and already be up to speed and not have their teething problems in front of an audience.
Also the amount of pre-season testing has been reduced, and they can only run a single car during it so a new driver only gets a day and a half in the car before the season starts.
Look! Social Mediums!”
given that Verstappen’s mum waded into the Socials with her big boots on, there’s some gaslighting going on there fo’shure
Look! Social Mediums!”
As I almost said up there...
there’s definitely no bad blood between Max and Checo and they’re looking forward to working together. Same as Ocon/Gasly or KMag/Hulk – they’ve all said so in press releases 😀
From Red Bull's blabbering response:
"Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position..."
What a load of balls. I remember the TV feed played out a radio message asking him to give the position back if he had not passed Alonso by turn 12. Given that there's 15 corners at Interlagos then turn 12 definitely isn't the final corner. I've also read elsewhere that that message was orginally given at turn 6 (anyone feel free to fact check that because this is the internet and I'd rather be outraged than accuate 🙂 ). Again, definitely not the final corner. Do Red Bull really think that everyone is that stupid to believe that? What an absolute insult to their own fans, all other F1 fans and the media.
Circuit with corner numbers for visual reference:
This reply to Red Bull's attempt to whitewash gives the lie, if the video's true.
https://twitter.com/TheBoyKane/status/1593206967312711680?s=20&t=LD1Sz52f7R2YYlN7ovuqFw
Edit - BBC confirms (without specifically stating the press release is inaccurate).
"On-board camera footage makes it clear that Verstappen was first asked to let Perez by into sixth place after Turn Four on the final lap, and again three times as he exited the final corner.
Perez had earlier in the race been told "don't fight Max" when the race resumed after a final safety-car period so he could try to pass cars ahead.
Verstappen moved ahead of Perez but did not manage to overtake Alpine's Fernando Alonso for fifth place, and was told: "If we don't pass Fernando on the exit of 12, can we let Checo through, please, let Checo back through."
When he did not comply, he was asked: "What happened?"
He replied: "I told you already last time you guys, don't ask that again to me. OK? Are we clear about that? I gave my reasons and I stand by it." "
Brilliant.
This reply to Red Bull’s attempt to whitewash gives the lie, if the video’s true.
And the initial request many laps before should have been enough - there shouldn't have been need for a begging reminder. They're making themselves look like fools.
That shows Trumpian levels of self delusion, thinking that just by saying it only happened on the last corner makes it true.
How on earth did they expect to get away with that?
Even without referring to videos, I could tell you that it was way before the last corner.
Given that Red Bull is essentially a marketing company, they seem to be failing spectacularly at managing the 'publicity'.
I wonder who's pulling the strings at Red Bull now Dietrich Mateschitz has passed? Seeing as F1 was his baby.
I wonder who’s pulling the strings at Red Bull now Dietrich Mateschitz has passed?
I hear there's some young Dutch guy who seems to be telling them all what to do.
^ that made me laugh more than it should
Name change coming next season to Rode Stier!
Given that there’s 15 corners at Interlagos then turn 12 definitely isn’t the final corner
13-15 are flat out, so while they are direction changes, so technically have a corner number, they don’t really count. It’s accepted that 12 is the last proper corner.
Plus, he was told well before 12…
It’s the Donald Trump school of thought - the truth doesn’t matter. Evidence doesn’t matter. So long as you get your story out first and keep repeating the lie - it’ll all eventually go away.
The Ferrari junior programme is short of talent
Schwarzman and Illot?
I'd say either would be a better bet than Hulk.
Hulk is an OK driver, those two could be a bit rubbish or could be great. They've Kmag to get the solid, dependable drives in, they don't need two decent midfield drivers, they can afford to take a punt on a rookie, they *may* hit on a star with one of those two, they won't with Hulk.
.
Also, it would appear that Schumacher really was flattered by Mazapin last year 🤣
DId Logan Sargeant do enough laps for a super licence?
Think they have to do 100km - so at 23 laps completed he should have done enough for the extra point.
Superlicence still depends on where he finishes in F2 though. These runs are just adding 'back-up' points.
So this Checo crash thing. If anyone does investigate properly (throttle position info is probably all that’s needed) what would the penalty be? Deliberate crashing is right up there in “booted out of the championship” territory isn’t it? Which would also then kill RVs constructors championship?
Potentially a big mess incoming
Deliberate crashing is right up there in “booted out of the championship” territory isn’t it?
They're all at it according to Sainz! 🤣
https://the-race.com/formula-1/deliberate-crashes-more-common-in-f1-than-you-think-sainz/
[i]Asked by The Race if he was willing to give any other examples of deliberate crashes, Sainz joked: “I can go for drinks and dinner with you guys, and without a microphone I can tell you!”[/i]
Ricciardo all but confirmed as 3rd Red Bull driver - no pressure then Checo!... 😬
So this Checo crash thing. If anyone does investigate properly (throttle position info is probably all that’s needed) what would the penalty be? Deliberate crashing is right up there in “booted out of the championship” territory isn’t it? Which would also then kill RVs constructors championship?
Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 championship (but not Ferrari). No penalties for the 1998 season.
Briatore and Symonds were both banned after the Singapore Crashgate scandal.
Vettel got a 10 second stop-go for the Baku incident
Schumacher got absolutely nothing for his parking at Mirabeau (sp?) or Adelaide 94 (may have had the benefit of the doubt at Adelaide but then Jerez 97 took away any doubt IMO)
Senna/Prost 89 and 90, Senna got a DSQ for rejoining in an incorrect way🤷♂️
.
That's it off the top of my head, anyone else got any others?
So this Checo crash thing
Is this about Monacco?
Yes - that famous crash the no-one even commented on at the time! 🙂
Do we think that had anyone else but Vettel invited all the current drivers to a celebratory dinner, they'd have all showed up?
https://twitter.com/ZhouGuanyu24/status/1593358042736693248
Bottas looks like someone doing a bad impression of himself
Bottas looks like someone doing a bad impression of himself
I thought it was Keke Rosberg 😅