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Max has really excelled this year and matured, but
he hasn’t had much competition!then the others spent less
Someone had to change this
He was 8 points off being a five time champion
Was it really that little? Wow.
With the progress Aston have made in recent races a few podiums may be possible for Alonso next season.
With the progress Aston have made in recent races a few podiums may be possible for Alonso next season.
This is Alonso we're talking about. As soon as he moves to Aston I'd expect Alpine to start making massive performance gains while Aston become less competitive. He's an awesome driver but lousy at picking which team to join.
On the subject of budget caps
When we didn't have one Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari were way ahead of the others for years because they could spend the most.
Now we have one Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari are way ahead of the others because...?
Now we have one Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari are way ahead of the others because…?
...they have spent the most for years so have amazing facilities and great people that have been attracted by and contributed to that success. Many teams didn't have to worry much about their cost cap submissions because their entire budget has always been lower than the limit - IIRC Haas have said their new sponsorship deal means they finally have the funds to spend as much as the cost cap. It's going to take a while for things to balance out - maybe we'll be getting there when the new PUs arrive in 2026.
This is Alonso we’re talking about. As soon as he moves to Aston I’d expect Alpine to start making massive performance gains while Aston become less competitive. He’s an awesome driver but lousy at picking which team to join.
Agreed! But Alpine will have to set-aside 10% of their budget to repair crash damage between Ocon and Gasly! 🙂
…they have spent the most for years so have amazing facilities and great people that have been attracted by and contributed to that success.
What about McLaren? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They've really lost their way.
What about Williams? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They’ve REALLY lost their way.
🙂 - nobody stays at the top for ever.
What about Williams? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They’ve REALLY lost their way.
Rumours on social media are that Porsche are in line to buy them.
What about McLaren? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They’ve really lost their way.
McLaren as an F1 team may be in the doldrums.
McLaren as a motor racing company and car making company are going great guns. I like what Zak is building on the racing division side.
New wind tunnel should be up and running next year too (for 2024 car development).
Whatever happened to Stewart GP? 🤔 I don't think they were ever very big spenders...
Whatever happened to Stewart GP? 🤔 I don’t think they were ever very big spenders…
Stewart > Jaguar (Ford) > Red Bull
They blew all their budget on Tartan paint.
McLaren as a car making company are going great guns
Eh, what?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40313324/mclaren-artura-media-launch-issues/
I stand corrected! Can't believe how few they've sold - you see them everywhere! 🤣
Unsettling to hear McLaren sold the factory and leased it back - has that ever worked out, for anyone, anywhere? I remember Coventry City having problems at the Ricoh, and Birmingham have sold their ground and lease it now too.
Sauber to compete as Audi from 2026
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1585179666469773312
Could be a spicy weekend
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1585751243233923073?t=soq3WuPTbu2ILw9A33ko-A&s=19
So, Red Bull have pleaded guilty but are still saying they didn't do anything wrong.
Well I'm just glad that the whole cost cap thing will finally be over, the FIA will do something that satisfies everyone and then everyone can move on and not mention it ever again, just like Abu Dhabi...
Allegedly a financial find and a restriction on wind tunnel time. Hopefully that brings the rest a bit closer to them in ‘23. Er, hmmm.
Alonso#s 7th place reinstated
https://twitter.com/AlpineF1Team/status/1585853247260340224
Alonso#s 7th place reinstated
The right decision.
Good. It was well deserved, and one of the best drives of the day.
Chris Medland
@ChrisMedlandF1
BREAKING: Red Bull gets $7m fine and 10% reduction in car development time for budget cap breach.Breach was £1,864,000 ($2.2m) or 1.6%, but FIA acknowledged if a tax credit had been correctly applied would have been £432,652 ($0.5m), or 0.37%
Just seen that - been hitting refresh on the F1 sites all afto! 🙂
https://www.racefans.net/2022/10/28/red-bull-f1-budget-cap-penalty/
Seems fair enough. $7m is a lot of sarnies to cut back on though - fish paste from now on!
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$7m is nothing to RB, they were spending hundreds of millions more than the cost cap in the years before.
10% on top of the already tapered wind tunnel/CFD limits will hurt though.
Guess time will tell if it's severe enough to discourage other teams from tactically breaking the cap...
Depends if the $7m comes off next seasons budget, or if it's just a fine in addition.
It needs to be the former if it's to hurt. Not sure of the details yet.
the-muffin-man
Full MemberDepends if the $7m comes of next seasons budget, or if it’s just a fine in addition.
It needs to be the former if it’s to hurt. Not sure of the details yet.
Ah, yes I agree if so that's much more painful.
Autosport are reporting that the fine must be paid within 30 days so im guessing its not coming off of next years budget cap
So not quite so harsh. But still seems fair enough. 10% aero reduction time is a fair chunk for someone like Red Bull, who of course by becoming constructors champions get less than anyone else anyway.
On another front - it's good of Aston Martin to allow Seb to run this helmet this weekend...
Barely a slap on the wrist 🤷♂️
Well all teams might as well go up to 5% over the cap now. Especially if a WC is at play.
This ^^^
Well all the teams know what the penalty is for overspending now I guess.
I wonder if it's 10% off the total, or the reduced amount (due to constructors rankings)
edit - FFS it's 10% off the reduced amount. So if they were to get 70% before penalty, they will get 63% not 60%
I wonder if it’s 10% off the total, or the reduced amount (due to constructors rankings)
10% of the 70% they would have had as constructors champions so 63%
10% of the 70% they would have had as constructors champions so 63%
So the better you do in the constructors, the smaller the effective penalty. Genius.
futonrivercrossing
Free Member
Barely a slap on the wrist
Really? 10% less aero testing to a team relying on Newey’s work is going to sting a bit I reckon. As others have mentioned they arleady have the smallest testing allowance anyway, I’m sure they’ll feel that being reduced further
But next years car's will be barely changed.
Unlike this years were they took full advantage to max effect.
I’m sure they’ll feel that being reduced further
But we won't see the effect of that reduction until the 2024 car (developed in 2023). Like the mishandling of the Haas complaint about Alonso's car rightly so IMO, (regardless of the superb achievement of Alonso's drive subsequently) the FIA are increasingly showing themselves to be incapable of governing to any consistent standard.
They cant even follow their own rules and often take hours, days weeks to come to a conclusion. Rapidly becoming a farce with a contentious point every week now. I bet the stewards are praying for a quiet weekend sometime soon. Are the same stewards doing the other formulas? If so why do they get it so wrong in F1 and not in f2 etc.?
I assume Red bull had some say in the penalty through their negotiations over the cost cap. Will they not shift the development resources to Alpha tauri to make up for the loss and therefore expect a drop in Alpha tauri performance in the 2024 car. Seems like the FIA used the technicality of too late for the protest to wave away Haas protest. IF that is true I expect Haas to pipe up at every opportunity about unsafe cars down the road.
I am glad that Alonso got to keep his points and reward for carrying on
I assume Red bull had some say in the penalty through their negotiations over the cost cap. Will they not shift the development resources to Alpha tauri to make up for the loss and therefore expect a drop in Alpha tauri performance in the 2024 car.
I don't believe they can do that, although what's to stop Red Bull getting their engineers to work on the RB17 Hypercar's floor (mysterious how they start working on a ground effect hypercar as soon as ground effect comes back in the f1 rules... 😜 ) and taking the learnings from that across to F1? I think in reality it's almost impossible to police.
Some proper analysis - it impacts 2023 and initial design of the 2024 car...
https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-red-bull-aero-testing-penalty-really-is-and-how-itll-hurt/
[i]The ABA was entered into on Wednesday, October 26. That means that Red Bull’s new limit kicks in immediately and will be valid for whatever development work it completes in the final part of 2022.[/i]
So it works out at 20% less aero time than Mercedes will have. If people don't think that will hurt then you're not understanding F1 and it's reliance on aero.
I'm sure Elon Musk is trying to cool the Twitter servers as we speak though! 🙂
I am glad that Alonso got to keep his points and reward for carrying on
I'm glad that Alonso was able to carry on to win points. Haas' argument stands though, there are clear double standards.
The ABA was entered into on Wednesday, October 26. That means that Red Bull’s new limit kicks in immediately and will be valid for whatever development work it completes in the final part of 2022.
I've seen it reported elsewhere that the reduction is as of Jan 1st 23.
Or with immediate effect....who knows 😂
I’m sure part of the cost cap is that they have to split the costs to match the cars and not the calendar years.
So any work they have done on the 2023 car this year comes out of the 2023 allowance.
It seems that most of the team principals think that it's a sensible penalty and that's good enough for me.
Well apart from horner, but his whining is the human version of a mosquito's
Can't believe he thinks the other teams should apologise to Red Bull
... Anyway... Leclerc's just binned it in practice - he will be glad to see the back of this season.
Mercedes are looking fast
Ferrari and Lec just dont seem to be working out. Similar to Vettel and Alonso.
Can’t believe he thinks the other teams should apologise to Red Bull
His lack of self awareness is staggering. He actually believes they have been wronged because they were accused of cheating more than they did.
He seems to think "not as guilty as first thought" is the same as "innocent"
His lack of humility is staggering
An alternative.
Ferrari and Lec just dont seem to be working out. Similar to Vettel and Alonso.
I really like Leclerc, he's one of my favourite drivers on the grid, but does have flaws. Possibly the fastest driver on the grid on a good day, but makes too many mistakes- he doesn't seem able to hold his focus well enough, like Verstappen is able to do so well. This may change as he gets more experience, of course, and with a competitive car and team behind him he's definitely world champ material, but he's a long way from the complete package that Verstappen and Red Bull are right now
He reminds me a bit of Vettel, actually- can have a blistering pace, but prone to getting distracted and making mistakes
Anyway....
Predictions for today's race? Will Max just race off into the distance? Will Lewis punt him off the track? Will Russell and Lewis come together, thus sparking an exciting rivalry we get to see played out in the coming years? Can Perez get past the Mercs? Can Ferrari do anything at all? Will Haas moan about anything?
I reckon there’s the best chance yet of a Merc win - although if I had to put money on it, it would be Max again. Would George give up a win for Lewis though, if they were 1 - 2?
Would George give up a win for Lewis though, if they were 1 – 2?
There's no reason why he should; he's ahead in the DWC, so he'll by wanting to maximise his own standings. It could be an opportunity to boost his own brand and value. What racing driver would want to be Number 2? One thing I want to see, is that battle within Merc; Perez and Sainz are most definitely No2 drivers within their respective teams. Hamilton v Rosberg was exciting; Hamilton v Bottas wasn't.
Would George give up a win for Lewis though, if they were 1 – 2?
Why would he? It would make no sense for him to do that.
Now here's a win!
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2022/10/30/entire-red-bull-f1-team-to-retract-sky-sports-engagement/
Now if Kravitz disappeared as well we'd all be better off 🙂
what a bunch of baby's
the comments on that story 🙂
I'm not sure i believe that story, highly doubt they're that thin skinned they'd care what ted said.
Well this is dull!! 🤣🤣😴😴
I think the mercs are under fueled
Probably all are - we need a crash!!
And Ferrari - another season of great promise fizzling out into mediocrity.
Police Interceptors would have to chuck out a stinger to wreck those mediums on Max’s car!! 🤣
I was "surprised" to hear Coulthard claiming Red Bull's fine would come out of their budget cap money. You'd think he'd bother to check his facts 😂
Another bold strategy from Red Bull reaping benefits while Mercedes play it too safe again
Russell is running out of toys to throw out of the car! 🤣🧸🪀🚂
Danny Ric went full beast mode there, nice job. Harsh penalty I thought.
Just revisiting Ric on Tsu.
The move:
The rules:
For overtaking on the inside of a corner
In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.
When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tyres are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.
Danny's front wheel was between Tsunoda's front & rear at the apex which is a "significantly portion", he wasn't out of control, he stayed within track limits.
So why was it a 10 second penalty?
multi21
Free MemberI’m not sure i believe that story, highly doubt they’re that thin skinned they’d care what ted said.
Posted 12 hours ago
Well, just read Horner's statement, it turns out they are 😅
Another bold strategy from Red Bull reaping benefits while Mercedes play it too safe again
Yep, Mercedes strategy just didn't come off today because they were just too conservative. They seem to have forgotten that they need to take the fight to RB, they're not defending anymore.
@multi21 - I wasn't so sure that the penalty was correct either, but if you look at where the drivers start turning into the corner, I think it's more obvious that DR was too far back.
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scotroutes
Full Member@multi21 – I wasn’t so sure that the penalty was correct either, but if you look at where the drivers start turning into the corner, I think it’s more obvious that DR was too far back.
Yeah true but that's why I checked the rules, the official line is "significantly alongside by no later than the apex".