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I'm eagerly awaiting the next Drive to Survive. Can't wait to see how they manipulatively edit it to insert some bogus drama into it all.
I haven't watched any F1 since the final race. That got turned off after the sham of a final lap and I haven't felt any desire to watch the season reviews. Still undecided if I am going to bother watching this year, what's the point when it like WWF.
Aye not for me. I've been following it for ~30 years but no more.
I'll carry on watching it but only when it suits or on catch-up, certainly won't pay to view anymore.
Won't let it get in the way of riding my bike again.
Probably won't go to anymore races
Same here. 40 is years of following F1 but no interest now. I'm not particularly even a Hamilton fan, more Mclaren but the rule breaking manipulation of that last lap, then failure of the FIA to address it means I can't take it seriously.
I'm waiting to see what (if anything) changes in the aftermath of the Abu Dhabi fiasco. The FIA have the chance to look at the big picture which started ages ago (even in the Charlie days, remember Seb having a sweary rant after a certain Mr verstappen pulled a dodgy move) and making some decisive changes about track limits, passing, weaving, brake testing and even general driver and team conduct. Maybe they can clear up a lot of the ifs and buts, make stewarding more consistent and have a better system of penalties. And, possibly just as likely, maybe Massivespin will stick the Haas on pole at the first race...
I think it's a bit rich for people to complain that the end of the last race was contrived. So many rule changes over the last 10 years or so have been designed just to roll the dice and take away a well built up lead. Safety cars, VSC, DRS, Starting on your Q2 tyre, Mandatory use of 2 tyre compounds, Changing tyres under red flag. It's like playing snakes and ladders.
There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go and there could have been worse ones.
It’s like playing snakes and ladders
Yes but they don’t change the location of the snakes and ladders, not the number of sides of the dice during the game.
Bad luck under the safety car, Is exactly that.
Changing the rules during the safety car, to get a 'racing' last lap?
It's the definition of contrived.
Explain how it isn't?
What they said ^
As long as any contrivance is set out before the race, everyone knows what it is and how it works, then fairs fair. Sometimes you benefit, sometimes the other guy does.
Changing rules mid-race is a different thing entirely
Same goes for changing the rules mid race for some of the competitors, but not others. As in allowing the cars between Lewis and Max unlap themselves, but all the others cannot.
Yup. If Latifi's crash had happened with 10 laps to go, Max changed tyres and Lewis didn't, the rules were followed and Max won then fine.
But Mercedes made their decision based on the rules. Then Massi unilaterally changed the rules to give Max the win.
Then the stewards agreed that Massi could change the rules whenever he wanted.
That's why it's pointless now. You fight like crazy for 10 months but whether you win or lose is decided by the whim of one official.
And that's before you get into the inconsistencies of whether or not it's OK to send it up the inside to overtake even if that means you can't make the corner yourself. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes you give back the position, sometimes it's a penalty. Even the drivers don't know what's allowed and what isn't.
Pointless.
The two ways to end it PROPERLY were:
1. The undramatic way - finish under the safety car. Precedent in France.
2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way - red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.
#2 would NOT have been done at any other race, they would have simply finished under the SC.
The two ways to end it PROPERLY were:
1. The undramatic way – finish under the safety car. Precedent in France.
2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.#2 would NOT have been done at any other race, they would have simply finished under the SC.
Well or 3, bring the SC in on the last lap but not allow cars to unlap themselves. Would have been annoying but at least in line the rules as we know them.
or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.
There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go and there could have been worse ones.
Eg?
I ouldn't even watch SPOTY because I knew they'd cover it.
There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go
They literally have a rule-book to tell them what to do when a drivers crashes. It's the very definition of straightforward, it couldn't be clearer.
2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.
Baku.
That one went against Hamilton too but no protest from him or Mercedes or the fans or anyone, because the rules were followed.
I'm with boriselbus, not sure if I can be arsed to invest my time in something that's decided on a whim
I didn't say there couldn't be a straightforward outcome I said there was never going to be one.
Finishing the season behind the safety car? I don't think so.
I didn’t say there couldn’t be a straightforward outcome I said there was never going to be one.
Sure there was - follow the rules, job done. That's happened before, you know (71 times).
Finishing the season behind the safety car? I don’t think so.
Why do you not think so?
Special treatment is also present in other sports...
"Organisers said the defending champion had not been given special treatment."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203
or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.
True, although that would have resulted in 1 due to lack of time/laps remaining.
or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.
True, although that would have resulted in 1 due to lack of time/laps remaining.
This is the whole problem right there. Masi missed the opportunity to call a red flag with 5 laps left to go. Having missed that chance, there wasn't enough time to clean up the mess and follow the normal safety-car protocol and have a green-flag finish. The rules state that "any" lapped cars must be allowed to unlap themselves and that the safety car will be called in one lap after the final lapped car has unlapped itself. If that protocol had been followed, the race would have finished behind the safety car. Masi seems to have panicked and decided to just get the lapped cars out of Verstappen's way and then call in the safety car as the only way to finish under a green flag. The FIA is dodging the issue, apparently the Race Director has discretion to change safety car protocol as he deems necessary.
The rules state that “any” lapped cars must be allowed to unlap themselves
Any decent lawyer sees that "any" there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is. Does that any mean All? Some? Some of time? at the RD discretion? what exactly?
It's why Masi is still in his job.
Any decent lawyer sees that “any” there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is
In that case, "any" unambiguously means "all" to a court. For example, if a law states that "any person found in possession of X is liable to a term of imprisonment...", it means all people, not some people. If it mean some people then it would have to mean no people or else the penalty would be completely arbitrary depending on the whim of the judge on that day.
Easy way to solve it, if there is any incident that is deemed worthy of a full safety car (not VSC) in the last 5 laps, then throw a red flag. All drivers can change tyres and they have the remaining lap/s from a standing restart like we had in Baku. It avoids the need for a rash reaction to better the "show" and everyone knows where they stand. Yes, it's still harsh if you loose a huge lead and then loose the race like Lewis did, but at least they're all fighting on the same terms.
This is the whole problem right there. Masi missed the opportunity to call a red flag with 5 laps left to go.
Absolutely. Although I think as it stands the decision whether to use VSC, SC or red flag is purely safety based, so under the current regs I don’t think he should be allowed to throw a red flag purely to create a better finish. However, if the regs were changed as lawman suggests, so that everyone knows that any incident near the end will always be a red flag, that would be a different matter.
You would run the risk of the race running out of time, maybe? If there had been earlier red flags for rain or accidents....can't recall whether red flags stop the "race clock"
Does that then create the risk of teammates of say Max in the last race scenario 'accidently' hitting the wall so that a gap can be closed under a red flag and present an opportunity to win though?
I'd say, if a crash happens within 5 or 10 laps of the finish, Red flag it then release all driver from the pit lane in race order and at the correct time intervals prior to red flag.
Every one back out on track as if nothing happened, just all probably on super softs.
Does that then create the risk of teammates of say Max in the last race scenario ‘accidently’ hitting the wall so that a gap can be closed under a red flag and present an opportunity to win though?
Nobody would be dishonest enough to pull a stunt like that, surely.
Not again anyway.
Well, thank God that year’s over and the shambles in Abu Dhabi is all forgotten about.
😂😂😂😂😂
Any decent lawyer sees that “any” there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is.
I’d just replace “any” with “some but not necessarily all” across the entire document and ask the FIA whether they were still happy with their regs, or whether they’d prefer “any” to be interpreted a little less creatively.
Anyone can see that it’s entirely unambiguous. And if you disagree with that statement as written then you’ve shot down your own argument.
Anyone can see that it’s entirely unambiguous. And if you disagree with that then you’ve contradicted your own argument.
Anyone. Any... one. So you mean some, but not all people?
Well, it’s up to you to interpret it; the point is merely that anyone who sides with Red Bull’s interpretation of “any” isn’t free to disagree with it 🙂
Anyway… looks like Aston Martin haven’t retained any of their staff this year:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.aston-martin-announce-departure-of-team-principal-otmar-szafnauer.7orq4yhy6bKbh4hEgAb36v.html
😉
If they wanted the race to end without a safety car then they could have pulled the safety car in with all the lapped cars still in place. But, that way Verstappen wouldn't have won, so clearly no point in doing that
But, that way Verstappen wouldn’t have won, so clearly no point in doing that
Depends what you think the objective was.
I still think they were trying to engineer an exciting close final lap battle and add drama right at the end, rather than contrive a win for MV, that just happened as a result of what they were trying to do.
I still don't think what happened was right, but I'm of the opinion that it was done for the show, rather than for MV per se.
I still don’t think what happened was right, but I’m of the opinion that it was done for the show, rather than for MV per se.
I really want to believe that but I’m struggling. It was very very obvious Lewis would have been a sitting duck with Max on new tyres - there was only ever going to be one outcome from the decisions they made and if they didn’t see it coming they really shouldn’t be in charge just as much as if they had engineered it for Max to win on purpose.
I’ve been watching F1 for 40 years and I’m struggling with wanting to watch it ever again because of what happened. It despicable. The only reason I have now to watch it is to hopefully see MV being royally thrashed by Lewis preferably, but George Russell can do it as well. I just really want Lewis to get his 8 titles.
The rules weren't so much as bent as thrown entirely in the bin to engineer a situation where only Max could reasonably win, it's pretty clear what they were up to tbh
Masi isn't a media genius, he wouldn't have been thinking about the news, the media, a new champion, more fans, etc, etc, he probably was just thinking about what RB said to him, "one lap of racing" ...he's a racer, that would've almost certainly gotten through and that's what he did. Not to gift MV the championship, but to give MORE racing and let the title be decided on the track. The trouble is, it needed more thought, he needed to consider the time required to do it properly, the effect his delay had caused to Mercedes in that they now couldn't pit, etc, but he didn't do any of that, it was too late...he made his decision for "one racing lap". And Redbull got everything they wanted. A very easy win at a race where even 3 laps from the end, it looked like they'd lost the championship.
I don't think it was planned, it was just a massive, heartfelt reaction to the situation in which he (Masi) then did everything to get "one racing lap". Redbull won because of that extremely well phrased and delivered message.
We should probably close this thread!! Time to move on! 🤣🤣🏎💨💨
Re: this any/all/some ambiguity....
The FIA is a French organization. Does anyone know whether the regs are drafted in French? And if so, is the ambiguity still there in its original language?
Or are we getting our knickers in a twist over a poor translation?
We should probably close this thread!! Time to move on!
We should at least have a sin bin for anyone who brings it up again once the 2022 thread starts 😀
Or are we getting our knickers in a twist over a poor translation?
I believe translations are available but the English version is explicitly deemed to be the definitive one.
We should probably close this thread!! Time to move on! 🤣🤣🏎💨💨
If we closed this thread I'm pretty sure the bitterness will spill over to the 2022 one, so maybe better if it's contained in here lol
Genius!
Brilliant 🤣
My God, people are still arguing about Abu Dhabi.
https://twitter.com/SpannersReady/status/1480470634564141059
Mehhhhhhhh
I’ve started on the cheese and biscuits
I wondered if Masi had a sideline managing immigration rules for the Australian open...
Hobnobs for me! 🙂