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Don't feed the troll!!
Hamilton is also obviously forgetting that in Imola he crashed into the gravel trap and was a lap down until Bottas also crashed and the safety car came out which allowed Hamilton to catch up and get second place
You don’t get it do you
I know! It’s so weird what happened I can’t help thinking it’s some sort of betting scam or he’s been paid/persuaded to make Max win if the opportunity came about.
The conditions were so specific that I really can't imagine that any sort of pre-meditation can be suspected. Masi was under pressure, got grief off both teams, felt the burden of past indecision and made a bad call, IMHO. Was Latifi bribed to throw it off the island with 5 to go so Masi could engineer the W? No chance.
How did Latifi actually crash? Can anyone post the footage so we can start a conspiracy theory about how he did it on purpose.
There must be some weird movements or something....
The conditions were so specific that I really can’t imagine that any sort of pre-meditation can be suspected. Masi was under pressure, got grief off both teams, felt the burden of past indecision and made a bad call
Exactly. He made a mistake. The problem is that the FIA cannot admit that it was a mistake.
How did Latifi actually crash? Can anyone post the footage so we can start a conspiracy theory about how he did it on purpose.
From memory he'd gone off line and picked up a bunch of dirt on his tires then binned it at the next corner
How did Latifi actually crash? Can anyone post the footage so we can start a conspiracy theory about how he did it on purpose.
Latifi was fighting for track position with Schumacher, he went off the track after wheels touched and picked up debris: Here.
Schumacher
The same guy that wants to preserve his Dad’s legacy? Makes you think…
That legacy was NEVER about supporting anyone else... 😉
Makes you think…
It's harder to make me think than most people expect.
Did anyone lose a theoretical chance of improving their championship position or the constructors position due to the safety car fiasco? Anyone behind Verstappen who had been lapped (and subsequently not allowed to unlap) didn't have the opportunity to gain places on the cars who did unlap themselves. Then there was the issue of blue flags for unlapped cars behind Verstappen.
Did anyone lose a theoretical chance of improving their championship position or the constructors position due to the safety car fiasco?
Don’t think so—I think the only drivers/teams that close on points were Leclerc and Norris, but they had the two Alpines between them on track. So it was only about the race result for everyone else. If I were Sainz I think I’d have been a bit more vocal about having been denied the opportunity of going for second or first. Conversely, Bottas probably wishes he’d had a few backmarkers holding station behind him 😉
I see Bernie’s dissed Toto and Lewis, so that must mean they’re doing something right.
Has anyone published Jacques Villeneuve’s hot take yet? I expect that’d be good comedy value.
So Mohammed Ben Sulayem is the new FIA president - wonder what he'll bring to the role as, compared to Mosely, Todt was most noteable for his silence. The FIA President has a pretty broad remit and I think Max was too close to the management of F1, but as an incoming president I'd certainly want to spin up the PR machine to improve the public image of F1 at the moment.
Classic. Asked to clarify whether he was saying Hamilton would be penalised for not attending the gala, he said: "Forgiveness is always there. "But rules are rules".
You couldn't make this crap up.
I bet Toto wishes he had gone ahead with the appeal now!
Wow what a muppet, it would have quite happily faded from the news cycle but he's just stoked the fire again. I guess there's just more political games going on behind the scenes.
Ben Sulayem said Bernie Ecclestone had not been involved other than to introduce the pair
Hahahhahahahahhahaaaa good one (about Bernie's wife being made a VP)
I’m backing the Mercedes’ lawyers over the FIAs any day of the week. That quote won’t age well.
Read the fricking room! How can anyone be so tone deaf.
I could see Lewis quitting if they fined him...or even reprimanded him
Aside from the total lack of self-awareness over the “rules is rules” comment, when you have to start denying that Bernie’s had his fingers in your pie on your first day in the job then basically you’ve ****ed it.
Bernie’s had his fingers in your pie
Eeewwww 🤢
What's that a reference to? Missed that story
Ah, the man who spent many years running F1 with the son of Britain’s most famous fascist… nothing unexpected (and to be fair, Bernie has always had this view of knighthoods), but it’s not a great look for the sport.
https://twitter.com/scobie/status/1471922231911591951?s=21
Those grapes appear somewhat sour.
Article 6.6 of F1’s Sporting Regulations states: “The drivers finishing first, second and third in the Championship must be present at the annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony.”
Doesn't say which Championship though 🙂 'The' Championship could be any if you fail to apply any context to any previous statements, clauses, or decide to interpret the rules in a different manner to previously or consider the conduct of the past 50 previous iterations of the same event 🙂 Easy get out I would think, and I assume Merc would just say it's a 'misunderstanding' by the FIA.
Article 6.6 of F1’s Sporting Regulations states
But I’m with you on making every effort to work it up the FIA
But I’m with you on making every effort to work it up the FIA
Posted 4 minutes ago
I assume in reality at some point in the regulations it will clarify that the term 'the championship' means 'the F1 championship' but as I say, ignoring everything else in the regs, as the FIA/stewards/race director have in their interpretation, then we have 'the' meaning 'any' championship, and applying further knowledge we have gained, we also know that 'any' doesn't mean 'all'. Confusing myself now 🙂
It says F1 in what you quoted 😀
It probably defines the championship, but maybe it doesn't say which annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony? 🙂
Doesn’t define the year of the championship, does it? Let’s assume it means 2013 🙂
Doesn’t define the year of the championship, does it? Let’s assume it means 2013 🙂
Likes 👍
1.2 These Sporting Regulations apply to the whole calendar year referred to in the title, and to the
Championship taking place within that calendar year (“the Championship”). Any changes made
by the FIA for safety reasons may come into effect without notice or delay
Doesn't he say there both can and can't be forgiveness? Clear as mud.
“I will forgive anything. But Christian has told me that doesn’t mean I will forgive all the things.”
That rainbow helmet has come back to haunt Lewis...
Mercedes have trapped the FIA into saying 'rules are rules' and will quote that back to them in the context of Masi not following them.
The rules can be open to interpretation but Masi is on record earlier this year saying All cars should unlap themselves under safety car, opposing the word "any" that is stated in the rules, so he knows full well he broke his own interpretation/understanding of the rules, the race would have then finished under safety car.
Hamilton would have been better off behind Verstappen on new rubber instead of being a total sitting duck.
Interesting listening to the conversations of the drivers and pit walls of the affected cars. It's clear that everybody 1. understands the rules are being changed on the fly, and that 2. lots of the drivers are really clear that it's being manipulated (not just Hamilton)
I'll not say that he has to go, but I don't see how Masi can stay in his job frankly, I doubt the teams or drivers have either respect of confidence left.
The key thing is whether they need to protect Masi because, if they throw him under the bus, he is likely to say that conversations with FIA higher-ups about delivering an entertaining conclusion to the season influenced his decision-making during the race.
Interesting listening to the conversations of the drivers and pit walls of the affected cars.
It's really interesting hearing this stuff. I wonder how it came to ve released?
You can get access to team radio on the F1 app and a few other providers round the world so there's a hardcore group who record all of these then make YouTube videos of them after each race.
Most of the meaty snippets have been publicised already, though hearing more of it was interesting, particularly Sainz. Perhaps the greatest insight from that is that it seems from several pit walls that they were first told that all cars could overtake, then immediately told that none could overtake, before—as we well know—then being told that only four could overtake. That first call, if it happened, hadn’t been apparent from any previous reports.
Sounds like an absolute hot mess and you can see why, if Lewis reckoned the safety car was going slower than usual, it would look pretty manipulated from his cockpit.
Kind of surprised we haven’t heard more from Ferrari and Sainz, but I guess it didn’t affect their championship position and they’re happy to sit back and let Mercedes take on the FIA.
Ricciardo has it-
"I'm glad I'm not a part of that, whatever just happened, seemed pretty ****ed up"
I've always liked Ricciardo but right now the guy is absolutely stellar in my estimations
Hmmm, Mazepin not top of the list.
Wasn’t going quick enough to cause any real damage I assume.
I’m all seriousness he spun off loads at the start of the year but only clipped things, probably didn’t cost a lot in repairs
Kind of surprised we haven’t heard more from Ferrari and Sainz
I'm not totally surprised, F1 can be very murky indeed and Ferrari are still recovering from their last secret deal with the FIA.
I still can't get my head around what happened and how stupid the FIA think folks are, especially as Max hadn't lapped the cars between him and Lewis. Only Lewis had.
I still can’t get my head around what happened and how stupid the FIA think folks are.
I agree. As the dust has settled the whole thing has looked even more ridiculous, not less
I honestly thought that with the more objective opinion you get when tine has put some distance between you and the event that Masi's actions would look more forgivable, but the more you look at the detail (like only unlapping the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen, but leaving all the cars between Verstappen and the rest of the pack in place) the more angry it makes me
The FIA have just appointed a new Boss, It's an ideal opportunity for "new Broom" time, it's literally fault free. The press and fans will support it, you get to look like you're taking action against the uncertainty of decision making that clouded the 2021 season. You can either shuffle Masi quietly sideways or upstairs for a year or so and let him "find a new challenge" and walk away so it doesn't look like you've fired him. Congratulate max heartily, commiserate with the Mercedes team...
Everyone's a winner and gets to feel vindicated.
I still can’t get my head around what happened and how stupid the FIA think folks are, especially as Max hadn’t lapped the cars between him and Lewis. Only Lewis had.
To be fair, that specific aspect is normal: under an SC all cars that have been lapped (by the leader) are normally unlapped.
The unusual bit* was choosing to do it for only a very specific selection of the field, giving Max a free run on Lewis without having to cover off Sainz from behind. No matter whether you do or don’t accept that the SC rules will inherently work out worse for some people than others, that’s a highly partisan and suspect decision.
Anyway, we’re kind of raking over the coals… but the current silence from the FIA and the teams is becoming deafening.
* or at least one of them: add to that the SC being brought in a lap earlier than usual and the original (or possibly second of three) instruction not to unlap (which, whilst clearly allowed for in the regulations, is not something I recall having happened before).
Hamilton would have been better off behind Verstappen on new rubber instead of being a total sitting duck.
That's true, and if Mercedes had been told at the start of the safety car what the situation with the lapped cars would be, they'd probably have boxed Lewis. Depending whether Max then pitted too, Lewis would either have been ahead, with both on new tyres, or behind, with new tyres while Max's had a few laps on them.
But if the race had finished under SC then pitting Lewis would have lost the championship, guaranteed: Max would have stayed out. And surely, given that normal procedure is to release lapped cars and then do one more lap under SC, that’s what they would have banked on.
I forget how far back Checo was when Latifi crashed, but had he been inside Hamilton’s pit window then boxing would have basically guaranteed a loss even with a lap or two of racing at the end.
Merc had no options. Once the SC was called they had no control: either it finished under Sc and they won or it finished as a race and they lost. Their only choice was to stay out and risk having to defend; they had a fighting chance had the traffic been held in place, but their already slim chances of being able to do so with the traffic cleared tanked when Masi chose to leave some lapped cars covering Max’s arse.
You can draw up a table of options for Mercedes at the point where the SC is called: two columns (box, don’t box) and a number of rows (SC runs to the end; race restarts with lapped cars cleared; race restarts with lapped cars in position), and then fill in the chance of a race win in each of the boxes, given that Max could and almost certainly would do the opposite to Lewis in each case. The only one that looks better than “bugger all” is the “don’t box, SC runs to the end” one.
Importantly, I don’t think they’d have even thought to add a row in that table for “race restarts a lap earlier than defined in 48.12 with no traffic between Max and Lewis, but traffic between Max and Carlos”. They were screwed in pretty much all scenarios, but that just made double sure of it and then twisted the knife. At the time Masi made his late call, he (and everyone watching) had all the information to know that he was signing off a 99.9% certain win for Max.
I forget how far back Checo was when Latifi crashed, but had he been inside Hamilton’s pit window then boxing would have basically guaranteed a loss even with a lap or two of racing at the end.
If only Bottas had been within 10secs of Max, rather than fighting the Alpha Tauris
Yeah, if Bottas was within even 20 seconds of Max when the SC call dropped then at least the last lap would have been fought on equal terms instead of Max having fresh softs. I’m not sure how much it would have affected Max’s earlier stop given how easily he’s got past Bottas earlier in the year.
If only Bottas had been
with 10secs of Max, rather than fighting the Alpha Taurisvaguely useful/George Russell (maybe)
. I’m not sure how much it would have affected Max’s earlier stop given how easily he’s got past Bottas earlier in the year.
Again, Checo.
.
It's odd, I remember Checo having a much better year than VB and yet VB beat him in the championship.
I think VB does suffer a lot from being compared to the GOAT but this year really wasn't his best, just when he was needed most
Has he really ever been a 'team player' - I'm not sure sure.
I think VB does suffer a lot from being compared to the GOAT but this year really wasn’t his best, just when he was needed most
It really highlights just how good Rosberg was. Hamilton has consistently been faster than his teammates, yes he had a bit of a challenge from Button but I think Hamilton wasn't at his best then.
Both Max and Lewis often ****ed off down the road, leaving their teammates looking distinctly mid pack.
No, but that didn't matter before.
2019 for example, he was fighting for the title himself, and for the first half dozen races, making a good attempt at it. He didn't need to help Lewis, quite the opposite in fact.
I genuinely don't think Merc mind which of their drivers win, as long as it's one of them. Its just a problem this year when it's a choice between a particular one of their drivers or one from another team, then they need a decent number two who will play the team game.
Unfortunately, for Max, this will always be the championship that was gifted to him via wonky backroom shenninagins at the expense of Lewis Hamilton. Hopefully, for him, he wins the multiple titles that we are all expecting him too, so that it can be referred to as a shaky start that was bolstered by further wins rather than the really stinky turd of a win that he currently has
Hopefully, for him, he wins the multiple titles that we are all expecting him too, so that it can be referred to as a shaky start that was bolstered by further wins rather than the really stinky turd of a win that he currently has
Like Schumacher? Although, TBF that was his own doing, and 97 really didn't help, whereas I don't think we can blame Max for this cock-up. But yes, even if it wasn't his fault that is still how this championship will be remembered.
Unfortunately, for Max, this will always be the championship that was gifted to him via wonky backroom shenninagins at the expense of Lewis Hamilton. Hopefully, for him, he wins the multiple titles that we are all expecting him too, so that it can be referred to as a shaky start that was bolstered by further wins rather than the really stinky turd of a win that he currently has
Agreed, though I suspect Max won't give a toss about how he got this year's championship
I suspect Max won’t give a toss about how he got this year’s championship
He's already ready told us it won't change anything and doesn't give a toss about winning it so what's he now making all the fuss about...?
This will be all dependent on if max goes on to win the championship again. If he does this will blow over. If this is his only title then it will always look shaky
He won’t care about how it was won. But he will care about other’s perception of how he won it.
Yep, unfortunately it will never look like anything other than what it was- the FIA intervened to stop Hamilton from winning and hand it to Verstappen. Such a shame for all involved really
The other thing to factor in about the safety car and Mercs decision making was that only a week before they double stacked both cars under the SC, lost track position and then the race was red flagged giving Max a free tyre change and track position. I imagine they may have thought that if there would be anymore racing then there was a possibility it'd be a red flag and reset tyres type of event rather than a completely unknown break the rules and let them race for one lap type mess.
Let’s face it, it wasn’t ‘planned’ or ‘deliberately decided’ for Max to beat Lewis. Masi made a mistake under an immense - IMMENSE - amount of pressure by deciding about 30s too late, and panicked and tried to recover it. As I can sometimes do in my day job!
The FIA can’t exactly say “Max is champion but not really as we cocked up, sorry Lewis”, they’re trying to be professional about the whole thing.
Fed up of reading all the BS about it online.
Let’s face it, it wasn’t ‘planned’ or ‘deliberately decided’ for Max to beat Lewis. Masi made a mistake under an immense – IMMENSE – amount of pressure by deciding about 30s too late, and panicked and tried to recover it. As I can sometimes do in my day job!
The FIA can’t exactly say “Max is champion but not really as we cocked up, sorry Lewis”, they’re trying to be professional about the whole thing.
I agree, except that the purpose of protocols is to give people a clear guide on what to do in emergencies so they don't make mistakes under pressure. Safety car protocols are, by definition, a safety issue so there is really no justification for ignoring them in a panicked rush to have one more greeen-flag lap. With hindsight, a protocol that a safety car in the final 5 laps (or 10 laps, or whatever) automatically triggers a red flag might be the way to go, but the race director panicking and cocking up the safety car protocol is pretty poor.
Fed up of reading all the BS about it online.
We don't care, so stop reading it or bugger off. This is a discussion about what happened and why.
This is a discussion about what happened and why.
Masi made a mistake under an immense – IMMENSE – amount of pressure by deciding about 30s too late, and panicked and tried to recover it.
What I hadn't really appreciated (and I may be off the mark, feel free to correct me) is that Masi's role as race director is for the FIA, who are in charge of safety. 'Formula 1' the company are a different enterprise who have an interest in promoting and encouraging exciting racing. It's not supposed to be Masi's job to make the racing more spicy, yet that's exactly what he attempted to do, and ultimately it ended in farce.
It makes you wonder how much the safety people and the entertainment people were colluding, and how much they should be.
It makes you wonder how much the safety people and the entertainment people were colluding, and how much they should be.
They're like conjoined twins as in, one can't exist without the other. In some cases, it's an unhealthy dependency.
Oh, and apols if my last post up there ^ sounds a bit blunt. It does on rereading and wasn't intended to offend.
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The FIA have a commercial interest in F1 under the concord agreement that was negotiated by Bernie back in the day, so it's in their interests to have exciting racing and they obviously work closely with the rights holders (Liberty) to make sure that happens, also I think some of the teams have a similar agreement that represents their interests.
Oh, and apols if my last post up there ^ sounds a bit blunt.
It sounded blunter than a particularly unsharp house brick, but it made me chuckle 🙂
for a few minutes the ref only lets the losing team score
for a few minutes the ref only lets the losing team score
He's left out the bit about removing the cars between Lewis and Max....but only the cars between Lewis and Max
In years to come that's the bit that's going to leave people scratching their heads and saying 'seriously?! really?!?!?'
Well, thank God that year's over and the shambles in Abu Dhabi is all forgotten about.
Not quite!...
The Christmas break is almost done and I can't be the only one who couldn't bring themselves to watch any of the F1 season reviews. Those last few laps devalued not just that race but the rest of the season for me.
Eagerly awaiting car launches and testing now so I can move on! 🙂