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I guess Ferrari figured that since their car is as fast as a bus they may as well have a double-decker.
Nice action all over the shop at the end 🙂
Albon’s a bit of a paradox, isn’t he? Ever since he got the Red Bull seat he’s pulled a bunch of belting passes, but his pace is consistently such a way off his teammate that you wonder what Helmut must be thinking.
But then neither of the Alpha Tauri drivers fared well in the Red Bull, so where’s his alternative? (And no, not currently at Ferrari.)
That was really good, plenty of actio and some stunning manoeuvres, Ferrari* excepted. Perez may have had a tyre advantage but to stick it round the outside on that corner takes guts.
Norris is really coming across a s a bit of a racer isn't he? I knew he was good and had a wicked sense of humour but he's got that fighting spirit too, really good to see.
* can the Red Team do anything more to make them look even worse? Crap car, crap tramwork and now they have a future star and a 4x World Champion (who admittedly is his own worst enemy) both looking like amateurs!
Oh man it must suck to be at Ferrari right now. Fifth fastest in terms of one lap pace, an engine down on power and to cap it all, Leclerc taking not just himself but a blameless Vettel out of the race. Currently, Sainz has a better car than the one he'll be driving next year, he'll going to be walking into a proper Maranello shitshow of the sort that we haven't seen since the F92A was trundled out. At least Ferrari weren't stuck with the F92A for two years on the trot.
Norris put in yet another barnstormer of a final lap. It's clear that the Renault engine isn't the class of the field in terms of race pace, but single lap speed is impressive. That McLaren was looked very handy in the wet, so it seems that they finally have a chassis to brag about - they scored fastest lap again this afternoon. Race pace isn't great, both Sainz and Norris lost places to Racing Points. Conversely the two Racing Points seem to be extremely fast in terms of single lap and race pace, but they've been hobbled by misjudged strategy calls. They've easily got the third fastest car, they shouldn't be finishing behind a McLaren.
News has it that Renault have protested the Racing Point's legality and apparently both pink cars have been impounded pending an investigation of the braking system.
No wonder RB forced McLarens hand with Norris and made them sign him up to an F1 seat earlier than they wanted 2 years ago. Norris looks quality, Albon looks average at best.
neither of the Alpha Tauri drivers fared well in the Red Bull, so where’s his alternative?
I think Hulkenberg's busking outside Elten bus station.
Crikey, thats a fair amount of coaching to take on board whilst balancing a car at that speed...
you should watch some rally footage, that’ll really blow your mind 😉
Are you referring to co driver instructions?
Not discounting how hard that is, but in F1 he's playing with tiny buttons on a steering wheel in rapid succession whilst balancing a car & taking onto account the cars around him at 100's of MPH - all at the same time. I'd suggest theirs at least 2 - the mode switch and the overtake button.
I think Hamilton or someone was on about the cognitive load of managing all the different settings a few years back. Those steering wheels are pretty amazing, how the drivers can remember everything in the heat of battle is beyond me.
Kryton57
SubscriberAre you referring to co driver instructions?
Not discounting how hard that is, but in F1 he’s playing with tiny buttons on a steering wheel in rapid succession whilst balancing a car & taking onto account the cars around him at 100’s of MPH – all at the same time. I’d suggest theirs at least 2 – the mode switch and the overtake button.
Very much so, but only tongue in cheek. OTOH Lando has just driven the same track and surface dozens of times that day so knows everything thats going on. Even I can twiddle my knob and not crash when on the playstation, but I am an STW driving god tbf
thats a fair amount of coaching to take on board
I'm not sure I class that as coaching..he's being given technical directions about modes available, not being told what line to use, where to brake etc
where as Bono to lewis..... it's hammer time
how the drivers can remember everythin
They don’t remember, they run on instinct.
Love Lando - you get the feeling he's having the time of his life.
Compare to LeClerc who always looks like he's lost a tenner and found a fiver.
Lando just comes across as a guy who absolutely loves what he does. Its nice to see him doing well and the McLaren being competitive after it's years in the wilderness
simondbarnes
SubscriberCan’t imagine for the life of me why no-one wants to employ Vettel anymore
He was taken out by his teammate
.
Interesting reactions.
Last week Vettel ed up and was saying "I'm amazed I only spun once" ie. car is rubbish, nothing to do with me.
This week LeClerc *ed up and was saying "Sorry, my fault, I really need to try harder"
Very different attitudes.
how the drivers can remember everythin
It's not particularly different than driving a normal car whilst switching lights on, opening windows, operating wipers, changing gears etc. If you sat there and tried to consciously *think* which stalk you use and which bit of it to press to set the rear wiper to intermittent wipe you might struggle and they will be the same - they drive the cars regularly and just *know* what and where all the buttons are.
I don’t think they do think about the actual driving in the same way we don’t think about driving on the road from a mechanical perspective. All their conscious thought is on what’s going on around them and the race rather than physically driving
Conversely the two Racing Points seem to be extremely fast in terms of single lap and race pace, but they’ve been hobbled by misjudged strategy calls. They’ve easily got the third fastest car, they shouldn’t be finishing behind a McLaren.
The racing points lost out to a McLaren yesterday due to driver errors.
Perez was over 20 seconds ahead of Norris and the cars behind and challenging strongly for 4th place until he drove into the back of Albon and broke his front wing.
Stroll made a mistake when overtaking ricciardo who was holding him up. Stroll forced both of them off the circuit and it would have been a crash if ricciardo had not taken avoiding action. Norris just drove past.
Bottas staying with Merc for '21 (allegedly)
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bottas-mercedes-contract-2021/4833817/
So Vettel to Racing Point then?
Personally, I don't see why Racing Point would want Vettel. Perez is fast and has a contract, so they would have to pay him to leave. Vettel would be expensive on top of that. I'm not sure Vettel would be faster than Perez, and his lack of consistency is a huge red flag, so I think they would be better to spend their money on engineering.
Here's the article that accompanies the video:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-market-sebastian-vettel-to-racing-point-rumour-and-reality.4NyYoGEaG0uScEeX2xT5y.html
But what about Lance Stroll and Sergio Perez?
If Racing Point made the decision to break the contract of one of their drivers based on pure performance, it’s an easy call - they would retain Sergio Perez - a polished midfield performer with a proven podium record - and let Stroll go.The difficulty, of course, is that Stroll is the son of the owner - he's a big part of why Stroll Snr is involved in F1 in the first place, and him owning a team ensures his son has a seat.
So ditching the junior half of the pairing is highly unlikely. That said, Stroll is a very successful businessman – and he’s achieved his impressive wealth through shrewd business decisions, taking the personal side out of it.
He might feel that bringing Vettel in alongside Perez would create a formidable line-up and he could place Stroll elsewhere, with financial support, in the interim to see how it works out.
For Perez, it’ll mean one of the most impressive drivers on the grid – who is driving at an extremely high level – is out of a drive. In such a scenario, my sources suggest he’d land at Haas, where he has previously held talks about a drive, should he need a seat.
Perez is a proven podium finisher, who has scored five rostrum finishes for the team. No other driver has emulated his success since he joined the then Force India team in 2014.
The reality, though, is that it is Perez who is more likely to be moved on, even after the key part he played in saving the team prior to Stroll's takeover. Given the Mexican is contracted until 2022 such a move would likely require some intense discussions and significant financial compensation, not to mention the team will lose substantial backing from Perez’s suite of sponsors.But Stroll may well consider that a price worth paying to have a star driver in the car for the launch of Aston Martin Racing.
When will we know more?
Your guess is as good as mine. The noise and rumours around the move are gathering pace - and there is definitely movement behind the scenes.Much will depend on how quickly Vettel makes up his own mind, and how convincing Racing Point and Stroll Snr are in their pitch to the German.
Watch this space.
I watched the video and I thought they concluded that it was more likely that Stroll Jnr would go, because 1) Perez brings in a shed load of money 2) Stroll Jnr is useless and the decision isn't solely down to Snr anymore.
I got dragged into a rabbit hole of vids, and there was an Autosport one saying that Ferrari's alleged cheating last year was that they were getting more fuel into the engine (above the 100l/hr limit) by pumping more in between the fuel flow meter's measurement intervals...sneaky! (Allegedly, obvs). I had thought it was to do burning oil to increase power. FIA have now mandated a second, encrypted meter so no one knows what the measurement intervals are.
Perez is sometimes fast, sometimes ordinary.
He was utterly outclassed by the 'useless' Stroll in the wet qualifying last week. His deep Mexican pockets are very beguiling, but would that mean Stroll bins his lad? Nah.
Perez will likely go to Haas and finally the F1 world will be rid of the hopeless Grosjean.
Fingers crossed.
Perez will likely go to Haas and finally the F1 world will be rid of the hopeless Grosjean.Fingers crossed.
I think that will be what happens too. And Haas will be very keen on Perez's $$$ - could be the difference between them staying or quitting F1.
Perez is sometimes fast, sometimes ordinary.
yeah I agree...not sure either deserve a seat tbh
Perez is sometimes fast, sometimes ordinary.
Last year, he scored 52 points versus 21 for Stroll. Stroll finished 4th in Germany, which netted him 12 points, so 9 points across the rest of the season. In 2018, Perez scored 62 points versus 49 for Ocon.
In his Red Bull glory days, Vettel was fast and consistent, but I don't remember the last time he managed to string together a bunch of good races, he just seems to keep making rookie mistakes and throwing away points.
he scored 52 points versus 21 for Stroll
Being "better than Stroll" doesn't look that good on your CV TBH
And as I mentioned, he was profoundly out-qualified by Russel in the Williams last week. That isn't something that will ensure a seat next year.
That isn’t something that will ensure a seat next year.
He'll defniitely have a seat next year. He's a mid-pack driver with millions in backing to bring.
Perez brings a fortune in sponsorship to the team, so my guess is that there's some complicated contract gymnastics happening to farm Perez out to another team in the event that Vettel is lined up for Perez's seat.
Whilst Perez brings direct cash, Vettel brings a lot of attention and exposure, as a four time world champion, to a team trying to flog Aston Martins.
Also, probably pretty good at developing the car and, of course, Stroll Snr isn't short of cash anyway. He's a just trying to build a brand and help his son live the dream!
Vettel brings a lot of attention and exposure
For being a whinging, arrogant, selfish, entitled substitute of a former world championship driver.
For being a whinging, arrogant, selfish, entitled substitute of a former world championship driver.
Blimey.
He’ll defniitely have a seat next year.
But not his current one.
Blimey.
Not that I'm bitter 😀
For being a whinging, arrogant, selfish, entitled substitute of a former world championship driver.
+1
hugo
Also, probably pretty good at developing the car
"boys i need MOAR rear downforce ring-da-da-ding-ding grazie ragazzi"
So to me it looks like the following
Vettel to Racing Point/Aston martin
Perez to Haas (no way Stroll snr is going to get rid of Stroll jnr)
Grosjean to leave F1
Perez has been in F1 for ten years and none of the top teams have been that interested in him in that time, probably because they don't need the cash he brings and he cant get a top team on talent alone
Haas are contemplating their future, Grosjean doesn't deliver results, Perez could deliver results and brings cash with him
With all the talk of cost caps and drivers wages how about a time limit on how long a driver can stay in F1 ?
If you cant succeed relatively well in F1 in ten years then your never really going to make it to the top so all drivers should have a ten year limit that way you can get more young drivers coming through and not have the top drivers working there way up the field to the top then start heading back down the field as their career declines
Perez has been in F1 for ten years and none of the top teams have been that interested in him in that time, probably because they don’t need the cash he brings and he cant get a top team on talent alone
He had a year at McLaren when they were still at the top. Arguably went there too soon in his career though.
all drivers should have a ten year limit
So thery're out of a job they dedicated their entire lives to before they're 30?
Ridiculous
Perez has been in F1 for ten years and none of the top teams have been that interested in him in that time
He spent one year at McLaren alongside Button. That was the year that McLaren started going downhill. Button was 9th in the championship (73 points), Perez was 11th (49 points). Button's best finish was 4th, Perez's was 5th. I think he's like Hulkenberg and Magnussen - he's a decent driver, but not quite at the level of the very best. Question is, is Vettel actually any better? He sure hasn't been driving like a World Champion the last couple of years.
Mr Stroll doesn't seem entirely daft. If they can pitch to Vettel as a team that he'll fit into and/or will reorganise to suit then it could help Vettel get going again. a change is as good as a break after all....
So thery’re out of a job they dedicated their entire lives to before they’re 30?
Ridiculous
You selected quoted the punchline without the setup. If they are arse, why shouldn't they be made to leave instead of cluttering up the back of the grid.
There have been some real stinkers over the years; artificially kept on the grid due to sponsorship. It devalues the brand of F1
F1 has always had pay drivers (gentlemen drivers back in the day).
If Vettel going to Racing Force Aston Point means Perez going to Haas, keeping them in F1, and saving hundreds of jobs then that's good news.
And Stroll certainly isn't the worst pay driver there's been!
So thery’re out of a job they dedicated their entire lives to before they’re 30?
Ridiculous
They haven't dedicated their entire lives to being an F1 driver, it is the pinnacle of a racing drivers career, there are plenty of other formula's and championships/challenges out there they can go in to and try to conquer after spending 10 years in F1 along with plenty of behind the scenes jobs within the F1 teams or the media
Imagine if you were told you couldn't have a job because the other person going for it who was crapper at it than you but because they bought money to the job or had family connections meant you would never get a chance
F1 needs a drivers salary cap, no pay to drive drivers and a driver time limit but as F1 is money driven these things really are never going to happen!
F1 needs a drivers salary cap, no pay to drive drivers and a driver time limit but as F1 is money driven these things really are never going to happen!
...make them all drive the same cars while were at it! 🙂
You can argue Lando is a pay driver and also that Perez is a pay driver and many others. Few drivers achieve the levels of Lewis where they get paid a massive wage by a team. Most of their wage comes from sponsors.
In simplistic terms Perez's sponsors bring millions to a team for his seat and Perez is paid by his sponsors. The team may pay him a little, but the majority of his salary comes from sponsors.
F1 needs a drivers salary cap, no pay to drive drivers and a driver time limit
What I would like to see is all teams being allowed to choose one driver and the other seat being made available for the highest ranked driver who wants it. For example, Merc would obviously sign Hamilton for one seat. As Bottas came second last season, he would get to choose whichever team he wanted, which would be Merc. Red Bull and Ferrari have Verstappen and Leclerc signed, so Vettel could choose to drive a Ferrari or a Red Bull if he wanted, then Sainz would be allowed to choose.
Obviously, the teams would never accept this, but something like that would give talented drivers a chance of working their way up to more competitive cars.
Did Robert go out this morning? Didn't hear anything about Alfa on the BBC.
Did Robert go out this morning? Didn’t hear anything about Alfa on the BBC.
Yes.
https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2020/races/1047/hungary/practice-1.html
hols2
> https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2020/races/1047/hungary/practice-1.html
Ah yeah, thanks. Both of the Saubers were slow AF. Assume/hope RK was doing high fuel runs or something to be that far back from George Russell.
Personally I can't Vettel going to Racing Point, they are too closely linked with Mercedes, I think he's trying to force Red Bull's hand as they are the only team with a car that could challenge Mercedes.
Red Bull are saying that they are happy with Albon, but there is only so long that they will accept his level of performance, Red Bull if they are to be a championship contending team need two quick drivers.
Red Bull rejected Vettel. His only chance is Racing Point.
Albon’s performance on Sunday was fine, he was carrying a car issue. He did extremely well to hold onto 4th given that the Racing Point was actually lapping 4/10ths quicker than either of the Mercedes. He’s only had 1 full season in F1 and that was with two different teams. Albon and Norris are the future. Feisty drivers with proper personality.
And Stroll certainly isn’t the worst pay driver there’s been!
Does it count as a pay driver if you get your Dad to buy the team? 😂
to go against the trend here and stick up for Perez, he is exactly the kind of driver a decent mid-field team should be looking for.
They want the fastest they can get. They can't afford a Hamilton or a Verstappen and they won't join a team who can't give them a chance at a title anyway. If the driver actually brings money rather than costing it then even better. So what do they want?
They need someone who can consistantly bring the car home at the back end of the top ten and get points more often than not. Perez can do this, Grosjean can't.
They need someone who can capitalise on the mad races where the big teams are out of contention and hold it together to take a surprise podium. Perez can do this. Hulkenberg couldn't. Grosjean used to be able to.
Sainz is another who would fit this bill but he's got his shot at the big time now. Norris? Hopefully a star in the making, time will tell, see also: Russel. I can see Gasley taking on the Perez mantel of decent midfield driver when he does eventually retire, I would love to see him take a win before he goes though, maybe Tracing Point can get a surprise victory this year, they only need four cars to be out of contention rather than the usual six...
TBH, some of the anti-Vettel vitriol on here is pretty crass and uncalled for. He's had his moments of petulance, but who on the grid hasn't? Crikey, I remember Mansell's inevitable fortnightly whinge about some slight or other during his championship year, by comparison Vettel comes across pretty well.
"Seb - what's your favorite James Bond car?"
Am on the fence with Perez. On one hand you've Jo Ramirez's very public lambasting of him when they were both at McLaren, on the other he's good enough to go toe to toe with a vaunted Ocon when they were at Force India.
He makes Stroll look pedestrian too.
TBH, some of the anti-Vettel vitriol on here is pretty crass and uncalled for. He’s had his moments of petulance, but who on the grid hasn’t?
I haven't noticed any vitriol. I don't think the petulance is the problem with Vettel (Verstappen is much worse, IMO), the problem is that he seems to have forgotten how to race. He threw away two championship challenges with unforced mistakes.If Alonso had been in the Ferrari, there's a good chance he would have won a championship or two, or at least have pushed Hamilton right to the end. Vettel just seemed to mentally collapse mid-year and Hamilton romped away.
Here’s the latest one for you, there’s generally a few comments per race too
For being a whinging, arrogant, selfish, entitled substitute of a former world championship driver.
Ok, fair enough, problem is that the important part of the sentence is this: "substitute of a former world championship driver." Verstappen is another excellent example, it's very hard to like him as a person due to his petulance, but I don't think anyone denies that he is an amazingly skilled driver. Problem for Vettel is that he seems to have forgotten how to drive so there doesn't seem to be any point to keeping him around.
I actually quite like Vettel's british humour. You cant become a Champion without a sense of arrogance etc. But isnt this just symptomatic of our approach to sportpersons to kick them when they are down. Its not just Vettel that hasnt brought his A game to the party this year.
Perez is very special in nursing his tyres and getting the car to the finish line. I think he is vastly underated in that sense.
This subject is a regular on the F1 threads.
I'm not a fan of Vettel. I wasn't when he was winning either. He was the champion at getting a pole, blasting off out of DRS range and then sitting there. He certainly didn't do much wheel to wheel and when he came under pressure he frequently fluffed it. Then when Danny R turned up and out drove him followed by LeClerc doing the same at Ferrari I can't see him doing much again. I'm certain he'd rather be teamed with Stroll than Perez but there was no way he'd be allowed in a Red Bull because he'd demand to be #1 with team orders to keep Verstappen under control. No way that would work.
Lewis seems to have come the other way with most of the anti comments seeming to be about his interests durning his time away from the track.
I can’t Vettel going to Racing Point, they are too closely linked with Mercedes
Yeah, what would a German manufacturer want with the only German driver on the grid; and vice versa?
the red bull looks terrible, a right handful and more spins.
Well, based on that one practice session, I would say that Perez is a bit quicker than Stroll and that replacing Perez with Vettel would be a mistake.
On the basis of that one session, you would put Norris in the Ferrari and not Sainz. And you may say Stroll is better than Verstappen.
But it's just one session, so it would be a mistake to do that
Interesting times from that session (though I didn’t watch/listen/read along to it so I don’t know the context): Mercedes and Alfa both have their drivers putting in similar times to each other; Renault and Haas’s pairings are split by two tenths, but all the other teams have quite a sizeable delta between their cars. Russell and Norris both smashing it again; let’s see what they can do later on…
On the basis of that one session, you would put Norris in the Ferrari
Norris has been looking very impressive this year. Ferrari may be wondering if they poached the wrong driver.
I’m not a fan of Vettel. I wasn’t when he was winning either. He was the champion at getting a pole, blasting off out of DRS range and then sitting there. He certainly didn’t do much wheel to wheel and when he came under pressure he frequently fluffed it. Then when Danny R turned up and out drove him followed by LeClerc doing the same at Ferrari I can’t see him doing much again.
Its this for me. I didn't mind him at all but for me it all went down hill with "Multi 21" and every antic that followed that, bashing Hamiltons car f'rinstance, with which it tagged him as a petulant sore loser in my book.
Norris is a handy talent. Third in the championship!
And the McLaren looks like a good car this year, so both he and Sainz should be able to mop up some good points while the big names struggle.
I assume we just ignore things like Hamilton trying to hobble Alonsos Hungary qualifying back in the fuel burn days (only for Alonso to not put up with it at all and sit in the pit box just long enough to make sure it all kicked off) when both were at McLaren. Or Vettel going around the outside of Alonso on Curva Grande at Monza. There was another corker I stumbled across recently, but you’d think on this forum that he’s always just gone straight into the barrier any time he’s near another car. A quick look on YouTube shows plenty of wheel to wheel racing with Vettel, I feel this place is just blinkered towards him for some odd reason
mercs are playing with them! nearly a second faster than the fezzer on harder tyres !
blimey, mercs wining every race of the season ?
Mercs 1-2-3-4, let the protests begin!
I'm guessing that everyone will be switching resources to developing the 2022 cars starting Monday.
Mercs 1-2-3-4, let the protests begin!
Dear Ferrari, we'd like to complain about you cheating in your engine fuel flow settings, being caught and then supplying us with an engine that's considerably down on power.
That sort of protest?
Salary cut for Adrian Newey next year?
https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-anderson-explains-red-bulls-aero-instability-puzzle/
We are accustomed to a sun-baked and humid Hungaroring, this weekend we are expected to see temperatures in the low twenties at best possibly with a wet race too. The Racing Points have found their natural pace here, it's a surprise to see Red Bull with such a twitchy car, both Verstappen and Albon are struggling to make it work. Thank you hols2 (again!) for the link to The Race for Gary Anderson's take - most informative.
The midfield now seems to be anyone not in either this year's or last year's Merc. Red Bull and Ferrari are under achieving, Ferrari have a good chassis but are down on power unexpectedly which has resulted in the design optimization between downforce and drag being unable to be compensated for by brute power. The Red Bull seems to be a bitey wee bastard, down on both power and driveability compared with Mercedes.
The fight for second and third in the Constructor's Championship is going to be entertaining, for sure.
I’m guessing that everyone will be switching resources to developing the 2022 cars starting Monday.
The teams all agreed to pause development of the 2022 cars over lockdown and concentrate on the current cars that they have to carry over to 2021. They will all be throwing whatever they have at the current chassis as if they don't the competition will and they'll go backwards. No team will stop developing this current chassis until May/June 2021 or that they hit it's development limit. The midfield competition is far too fierce for anyone to sit back and as the usual 1.5 seconds is found over a season of development even Mercedes will have to develop. They have a luxury of a performance cushion so their goal will be to get this year done, work on the carry-over chassis for the winter and if they still have a good margin for 2021 over the rest they can switch to the 2022 car gradually and early. Being the leaders with a big advantage hands them so much extra advantage for the next few years it's unreal.