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Alonso will be racing next year at 40. Surely if Hamilton wins this year to equal Schumacher he’ll want to go one better. Also he’ll be closing in on 100 poles and 100 wins. Who could resist those goals?
ETA- if Mercedes have a dominant car again this year and next years specs largely unchanged it works in his favour.
Ok, so Renault get a fast driver who can help develop the car but he’s never been one to create team harmony, but what does he get out of it? He’ll be in the midfield at best…
But can he? I think someone on here summed it up quite well, comparing his time at Ferrari to Vettel. "Alonso can't develop a car but can get every last bit of performance out of a mediocre one. Seb can develop a car but has done nothing with it"
He wasn't pushing McLaren in the right direction.
But can he? I think someone on here summed it up quite well, comparing his time at Ferrari to Vettel. “Alonso can’t develop a car but can get every last bit of performance out of a mediocre one
Yeah that's a fair point..so Renault get a quick driver and publicity but they're basically looking at the occasional podium. And Alonso gets what? He can't still be motivated by money
I assume Alonso is hanging his hopes on the 2022 regs; he was probably looking at 2021 before covid kicked off, so I guess he's just going to take it as a year to get settled first.
Neither he nor Abiteboul seem to be particularly stable under pressure so I'm looking forward to Netflix in 2022-23 if nothing else. I expect Gunther's glazier will be casually leaving a business card on a table in the Renault motorhome.
Ocon's probably mightily cheesed off: he's going to have to share a garage with Captain Sulk and get his butt kicked on the track.
Doesn’t Stroll Snr have a sizeable investment in AM? If so jnr won’t be moving?
Yes, indeed he does but Perez comes with a long term contract and deep pockets. Stroll jnr has had his occasional moment but by and large he's been consistently outqualified and outraced by Perez. Stroll jnr didn't have a chance to shine in the race thanks to gremlins beyond his control, but once again he was outqualified by Perez. I am not sure that Stroll jnr is completely immune from being farmed out elsewhere if he doesn't perform.
“Alonso can’t develop a car but can get every last bit of performance out of a mediocre one. Seb can develop a car but has done nothing with it”
He wasn’t pushing McLaren in the right direction.
I think that McLaren's problems ran deeper than driver feedback. The structure of the business under Ron was somewhat byzantine with various factions blaming one another for under-performance. It took a new CEO (Zak Brown) and Team Principal (Andreas Seidl) to shake the management structure and to put in the infrastructure needed to turn things around. Alonso was instrumental in developing the Renault R25 and R26, which won him a title apiece, meanwhile neither Jenson Button nor Lewis Hamilton could do much to avert McLaren's slide into mediocrity during 2011/12.
I assume Alonso is hanging his hopes on the 2022 regs; he was probably looking at 2021 before covid kicked off, so I guess he’s just going to take it as a year to get settled first.
I'd reached a similar conclusion, the delayed 2021 regulations deliver the potential for a 2009 style shake up of the familiar order. Alonso's reputation for histrionics will have closed doors at any Honda-powered team, Ferrari pretty much had enough of him back in 2014, Merc aren't short of world class drivers to pick from, all of whom are unlikely to publicly lambast the car after a bad weekend. I can't knock him for wanting another go at Formula One at the tender age of thirty-nine though, even if he turns out to be a bit 2010-2012 era Michael Schumacher.
Ocon’s probably mightily cheesed off: he’s going to have to share a garage with Captain Sulk and get his butt kicked on the track.
Ocon didn't have a stellar weekend just gone, did he? What was it, six places behind his teammate in qualifying? It would be churlish to judge him on one performance after an eighteen month sabbatical at the age of 24, but Ocon is historically fast and elbows out with teammates.
Renault in 2021 will be a spectacular meltdown.
Renault recently announced that they have stopped engine development for this year due to covid related budget issues.
Signing Alonso in that context seems to make absolutely no sense to either Renault or Alonso.
It would be churlish to judge him on one performance
I wasn't really coming at it from that angle, more that Alonso can wring more out of a second-rate car than almost anyone.
more that Alonso can wring more out of a second-rate car than almost anyone.
Indeed he can, was it Azerbaijan in 2018 when he wrestled a broken McLaren to seventh? Mighty stuff, more than just one lap pace. But I wonder how much of his edge he'll have lost in two years out at forty.
Button reconed Fiscicella was the best driver at getting the nost out of a rubbish car.
And he was team mates with both Fisi and Alonso.
Renault recently announced that they have stopped engine development for this year due to covid related budget issues.
McLaren did alright with that engine.
McLaren did alright with that engine.
Flattered by safety cars, though. Norris had a feisty start but once he’d been overhauled he looked down on power compared to the Merc and the Honda. Even on his final fastest lap he was around 20km/h down on Hamilton when he hit the brakes for turns 1, 3 and 4: it was through the medium speed turns in the third sector that he made the gains.
Renault recently announced that they have stopped engine development for this year due to covid related budget issues.
I thought the engines were frozen for this year (other than for reliability updates) so the only opportunity for an upgrade was to bring one to the first race? Merc & Honda brought a new one, Ferrari & Renault didn't AFAIK.
I can see Alonso being a bit grumpy next year as I can't see the Renault being too competitive.
Flattered by safety cars, though
That feels a bit harsh, He did drive out of skin in the last laps, and as you say, got the fastest lap. Did mange to overtake Perez in the pink Merc as well. You can only take part in the same race as everyone after all. I think he did pretty well.
Flattered by safety cars, though
Nah. He qualified well, ran way up the field and kept his nerve.
If anyone was 'flattered' it was Leclerc. The Ferrari was the fourth best engine; third if you include reliability.
I think its great news
He'll add a bit of spice to things makes things become controversial
Ocon is very good, so I can see lots of strops, spat dummies and him regaining his place as F1's pantomime villain 🙂
As I remember it:
Alonso left Renault and joined McLaren.
Alonso left McLaren and re-joined Renault.
Alonso left Renault and joined Ferrari.
Ricciardo joined Red Bull and made Vettel look hopeless.
Alonso left Ferrari to join McLaren.
Vettel left Red Bull to join Ferrari.
Red Bull chose Verstappen over Sainz.
Sainz left Red Bull and joined Renault.
Alonso left McLaren.
Ricciardo left Red Bull and joined Renault.
Sainz left Renault and joined McLaren.
Leclerc made Vettel look hopeless, Vettel left Ferrari.
Sainz left McLaren and joined Ferrari.
Ricciardo left Renault and joined McLaren
Alonso rejoined Renault
Even on his final fastest lap he was around 20km/h down on Hamilton when he hit the brakes for turns 1, 3 and 4: it was through the medium speed turns in the third sector that he made the gains.
McLaren seem to have good single lap speed, but I concur with Bez's assessment that the Renault engine doesn't deliver the race pace of it's Merc (or Honda) rivals. Certainly Norris lost a couple of places mid race, but Norris and the team judged the race (and that final lap) to perfection to grab third.
Ricciardo seems to think that Renault were better than tenth on the grid, his Q3 run was cut short with Bottas's off-track excursion (which to be fair stymied Sainz too). Ocon reported that his car felt pretty good towards the latter part of the race, but it'c clear that we haven't seen Renault at their best yet.
I can see Alonso being a bit grumpy next year as I can’t see the Renault being too competitive.
As before, Alonso's focus will be on the new regulations for 2022 so he may view 2021 as a year for re-acclimatisation.
One other scenario to consider would be what happens if Vettel and Ferrari part company before the end of the season. Ferrari have Giovinazzi and Wehrlein as nominated reserves, the latter hasn't raced in F1 since 2017, so that could be problematic. Would Ferrari make a bid to obtain Sainz from McLaren before 2021?
That feels a bit harsh, He did drive out of skin in the last laps … I think he did pretty well.
Nah. He qualified well, ran way up the field and kept his nerve.
But I wasn't making a comment about Lando. His performance was outstanding: elbows out, lightning through the final sector at the end, and outperforming his highly-rated teammate all weekend.
What I was saying was that the Renault engine was flattered by the safety cars, because without those, things would have played out quite differently: the frontrunners would have pulled further away and Lando wouldn't have had so much opportunity to play the cards the way he did. Austria is power-sensitive and the Renault looked lacking. Safety cars kept them in the game.
Much the same could be said of Leclerc and Ferrari, to be honest: the Ferraris probably would have been more hampered by the pace deficit in a flat-out race, but Leclerc put in a superlative drive to make the most of the opportunities of a bunched-up pack.
Both drivers got lucky, but nonetheless were on the podium very much on individual merit.
What I was saying was that the Renault engine was flattered by the safety cars
Qualified 4th though... so not that much flattery, but yeah Norris is better than the car is currently
Much the same could be said of Leclerc and Ferrari, to be honest:
I did say that.
Qualified 4th though… so not that much flattery
Fair point (and again reinforcing the point that Norris had the measure of Sainz), although qualifying mode vs race mode makes it a slightly different kettle of fish.
reinforcing the point that Norris had the measure of Sainz
Oh, totally agree, I really can't make up my mind about which of these two is the better driver overall though. Sainz has admitted that his lack pace was entirely down to him, he said he just wasn't having a good weekend (excuse?). I want to say that Sainz is probably the better driver (He is the one with the Ferrari contract in his back pocket after all) but you've got to hand it to Norris, he total over-performed at the weekend. With the next GP at Austria again, the fight between these two will be (hopefully) on fire.
Well, there’s no disputing that Sainz had the upper hand and was the more complete package last year, so it remains to be seen whether last weekend was just a flash in the pan. Fortunately we only have a couple of days until we find out 😀
A nice youtube video of Norris last two laps. He took two seconds out of hamilton in those two laps and he was right on it.
Interesting that there's been no recording (that i've seen/heard) telling Hamilton to push on. Anyone else heard anything? Interesting if Merc missed what was happening
That is great footage!! Thanks for posting 🙂
That is great footage!!
TBH, I disapprove. The footage is great but it just reinforces my view that there is far too much assistance from the teams during the racing.
That footage is great, really shows how he was on the limit and the team were helping him get absolutely everything out of the car! We mustn't forget it's a team sport after all.
Really liking Norris' driving and attitude.
I thought the engines were frozen for this year (other than for reliability updates) so the only opportunity for an upgrade was to bring one to the first race? Merc & Honda brought a new one, Ferrari & Renault didn’t AFAIK.
The reliability clause makes the engine freeze a joke.
Renault were caught out by this when the old V8 engines were "frozen" for several years by the FIA to reduce costs. Renault ended up well down on horse power compared with Mercedes and Ferrari who continued to develop their engines much more aggressively.
A lot of things which make an engine more reliable will also increase power. Increased reliability also allows you to run the engine at higher power settings for more of the time, without worrying about it failing.
TBH, I disapprove. The footage is great but it just reinforces my view that there is far too much assistance from the teams during the racing.
I agree. Being told when to use the options lessens my admiration for any driver. They should know themselves. I thought this kind of assistance had been banned.
As for "team sport" angle, Racing is about the driver. Team prepares the car and then the driver should take care of business on the track.
I like Lando and think he is world champion material and he could have reeled in the time on his own anyway. That's the sad thing for me. He's not been allowed to shine.
I wish Christian Horner would concentrate on improving Red Bull and less time criticising other teams (mainly Mercedes). He really gets on my nerves these days.
A mate’s son has just started at Merc. He says everyone was pissing themselves at the weekend about the RedBull complaint about DAS as they had been keeping the FAI in the loop about it from before they even started the project, kept them updated all the way through the process and had them come to the factory a couple of times to check it out in the flesh.
Red Bull and Horner came across as whiney ****s at their home race last weekend.
Christian should concentrate on shagging Geri and let the team get on with racing.
should concentrate on shagging Geri
eeewwwww
He says everyone was pissing themselves at the weekend about the RedBull complaint about DAS as they had been keeping the FAI in the loop about it from before they even started the project, kept them updated all the way through the process and had them come to the factory a couple of times to check it out in the flesh.
That all came out in pre season. Last weekend was a different tack as the scrutineers were looking over the car. It’s just the same as has been done frequently since forever (bendy Red Bull wings for example)
I thought it was a DAS specific protest?
eeewwwww
To be fair to Horner (not words I type very often!) they protested DAS at the first oppotunity they could, FP1 on Friday was the first time the system was used in compettition. But yeah, he generally comes accross as a whiney prat.
TBH, I disapprove
I think the FIA do as well, there was talk late last season to reduce this to just Strategy and Safety, and leave everything else to car and driver from 2021.
3 place grid drop and 2 penalty points for Lando for overtaking under yellows.
Ricciardo put it in the wall pretty hard, unfortunate if quali is cancelled as he'll start from the back then I guess.
But if quali is cancelled we have the Racing Points right at the sharp end and Latiffi one place behind Vettel, on merit, on his second attempt 🙂
Not keen to see Verstappen on pole but otherwise looks like a good grid. How much would it it need to rain to cancel quali...?
That Renault basically lost all rear grip as it ran over the pitlane line. Hopefully Qualy will run tomorrow as Ricciardo is usually good in changing conditions plus we'll get a mixed up grid, set it up for another good race on Sunday.
With FP3 rained off I'm looking forward to qualifying now. Be interested to see if Lewis performs his usual we weather magic.
As there was no coverage worth looking at I went to YouTube and stumbled across this. The racing is bonkers. Move over Saloon Cars and DTM this is the new king.
Be interested to see if Lewis performs his usual we weather magic.
Anyone thinking his slower pace could be a blinder being played to a wet weather setup?
Tactical suicide if so as it's supposed to be nice on Sunday
Anyone thinking his slower pace could be a blinder being played to a wet weather setup?
Merc took his car apart to check the setup - Hamilton said it didn't feel right. Usually the simplest explanation is most likely - Max had a good day, Bottas had an unremarkable day, Hamilton had a bad day. Anything could happen tomorrow if last Sunday is any guide.
This is better, it should rain every quali. I’d be surprised if Ferrari get out of q2 though, ouch.
Yes Lewis! What a star.
he's one steely eyed racing driver!!!
Excellent qualy.
That was an impressive lap, so much faster in very difficult conditions!
A mixed up grid so should lead to some fun tomorrow.
Was anyone else willing Russell to leapfrog the two Ferraris and knock them both out of Q3? Man, that would have been something 🙂 A great effort nonetheless.
Great stuff, one of those occasional qualifying sessions when watching on highlights doesn't come close to doing it justice. Stellar lap from Hamilton. The timesheet at least was reminiscent of Monza a couple of years back.
I'm a pauper so watched the C4 show and they did a good job of showing all the twists and turns. I tried to watch the F1 highlights video on YouTube but they use Crofty and Brundle for the commentary and Croft's constant shouting just made me turn it off! If he can make me do that for one of the best qualy sessions in ages then I'm happy to only see the highlights package.
Oh and the point I came here to make: if Hamilton wins the championship again and anyone says it's not a proper championship due to the odd season I'll just point them to today's Q3 and ask them if they can point put where he isn't the class of the field? 1.2 seconds over everyone else in those conditions on such a short lap is just stunning.
https://m.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/photos/a.270107047410/10157693123367411/?type=3&source=48
I don’t know how to post it as an image.
Leclerc has a three place penalty, which means that a Ferrari will start behind a Williams. George Russell drove a fantastic stint though, credit where it's due. Both McLarens have good one lap pace in the wet, plus Ocon claims he had more to give after qualifying an excellent fifth in the Renault. McLaren haven't been third on the start since 2014...
We also have the Racing Points at the back of the grid. Should make for exciting stuff.
Should be a great race in the midfield with two Ferraris trying to get past the Renaults and McLarens. Assuming Bottas can get past Sainz fairly quickly, I guess the top three will romp away, but Merc can split strategy between the two cars so Verstappen at a disadvantage. Alonso must be wishing he'd had the patience to stick with McLaren a bit longer.
There was a repeat of the Hamilton/Albon scuffle in the F2 race. Lawson and Peroni IIRC.
There was none of the big fuss, they just got on with it. The guy on the outside was clattered, he held it and lost the place.
Neither team were Red Bull whingers
McLaren haven’t been third on the start since 2014…
Well other than last Sunday 😉
Neither team were Red Bull whingers
They're just in the junior grades. If they make it to the Big League, they'll get the hang of whinging pretty quick if history is any lesson.
The wingsuit / aerobatic plane thing was impressive! (Sky Sports F1 channel).
They're putting on a good airshow. 🙂
Oops for Ferrari
Ha ha!
Oops for Ferrari
Can't imagine for the life of me why no-one wants to employ Vettel anymore... 🤔
What's the odds of Vettel finishing the season?
Can’t imagine for the life of me why no-one wants to employ Vettel anymore
He was taken out by his teammate
Leclerc would be penalised if he did that to another team imo.
He was taken out by his teammate
To be fair, on this occasion Leclerc was putting his car into gap that didn't exist.
But both Ferrari's out inside of 5 laps.
Decent last couple of laps
Lando!!!!
It's all about the podium trophy robots for us.
Kids were in hysterics
Somebody needs to explain to the BBC how to turn their radio transmitters on and off.
Yesterday they forgot to turn the feed off after qualifying.
Today they did the opposite and the feed on the bbc website didn't start until part way through the warm up lap, with the commentator mid sentence.
Nice to see actual flags on the ‘podium’, plus seeing the drivers celebrate with their teams was cool too. Maybe lessons to be learned from that, rather than the formal affair we normally get.
Albon just hasn’t got the speed to remain in that Red Bull seat. And with no-one in their junior teams ready to step up taking Vettel back would be a better option.
And yes - loving the robot podiums!! 🤣🤣
taking Vettel back would be a better option
Vettel is a shadow of what he used to be.
A shadow of Vettel is still better than Albon in full sunshine! 😀
He’s a nice enough chap Albon - but he should be closer than that to his team-mate especially as Verstappen had wing damage.
A change of scene for Vettel to his old ‘happy place’ may be enough to bring his mojo back.
Drop Kvyat and put Albon alongside Gasly to compare. Get Vettel in for the year or two
I guess that this makes the results provisional?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-racing-point-mercedes-protest/4832791/