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Vettel has spun trying to overtake Sainz!
Vettel being a **** again ha ha ha ha.
Vettel
Vettel just hasn't had his head in this for a couple of years now! Consistent mistakes and toy/pram moments.
Perez has finally passed Norris, the Racing Point does indeed look to be the third fastest car this weekend. George Russell is fighting with Giovinazzi and Ocon, currently in twelfth.
Anyone else think that the two Mercs might not actually make it to the end...?
vettel could get some points after the safety car! It aint over yet.. Cheers Russell
It's like going back to the 80s / 90s with all of these retirements
Impatient Albon
Dodgem cars time.
Leclerc to win?
Cracking last lap from Norris!
YES!!!! Norris!!!
Wow. Great news for McLaren!
worthy top 3 and pretty good race.. I imagine it will be business as usual by next weekend with merc and red bull at the sharp end.
Well that turned out well in the end. More races like that please
That was entertaining
Really enjoyed that, now will have to see whether the next race on the same circuit will be as good or everyone has optimised everything and it turns boring.
I didn’t agree with the penalty, but love seeing Norris and McLaren up there. Gutted for Russell
So why didn't the Mercs come in for soft tyres during the last safety car ?
They'd have been half a second faster for the final 11 laps & guaranteed one two
Pit stops are full of risk. You don't box unless you have to. See Raikkonen's wheel coming off.
So why didn’t the Mercs come in for soft tyres during the last safety car ?
They’d have been half a second faster for the final 11 laps & guaranteed one two
The cars behind would have stayed out, the Mercs would have had to pass them which may have been tricky given their reliability worries and having to pass people also has risks.
Are they still limited to three engines this year? Or has this been reduced to take account of there being fewer races?
.
Also a McLaren question for anyone who knows. If they are changing engines next year then presumably they will have designed the 2020 car around a Renualt engine, and the 2021 car around a Mercedes. Now the rule changes have been delayed and everyone will be using an evolution of the 2020 cars in 2021 and the 2021 cars in 2022 how will trying to get a Mercedes engne into a car desgned around a Renault one work? Will they have to have a massive redesign for next year?
Having said that, putting a Merc engine into a chassis designed for something else turned out OK for Brawn...
Or has this been reduced to take account of there being fewer races?
No one really knows how many races there will be, there are confirmed by races but others could be added/removed due to the pandemic in that particular country at the time
Also a McLaren question for anyone who knows. If they are changing engines next year then presumably they will have designed the 2020 car around a Renualt engine, and the 2021 car around a Mercedes. Now the rule changes have been delayed and everyone will be using an evolution of the 2020 cars in 2021 and the 2021 cars in 2022 how will trying to get a Mercedes engne into a car desgned around a Renault one work? Will they have to have a massive redesign for next year?
From what I gather, all engines have a standardized arrangement of mounting points to the chassis, so in terms of hardpoints it should be plug and play. Of course, there's the issue of aero around a different engine package, so I believe that McLaren have negotiated some sort of concession here
In reality it's (probably) not quite so simple. There will be differences in packaging and location of ancillaries that'll require some compromise between fit and performance, there may also be a difference in weight distribution that could change the balance of the car.
Zak Brown seems to acknowledge that 2021 may be a bit of a bummer.
Well, that was a bit bonkers.
Loved hearing the squeals in the commentary room when Albon went round the outside, I mean, there can't be many people who'd gone round the outside of Hamilton. Such a shame it went so pear-shaped for him,
Also a shame that Russell lost power and we weren't treated to Vettel romping home behind a Williams 😉 I don't buy Vettel's post-race interview where he's blaming the car for losing the back end there, it looks totally like he's realised he's ****ed it when the gap starts to close and he has no choice but to slide.
Still, at least he's not in Sainz's shoes. Realising you've signed up just when Ferrari look like imploding yet again must take the edge off it. Ricciardo on the other hand…
Quite an intriguing prospect seeing it all play out again next week, especially if Red Bull can sort their technical issues. (And on the matter of technical issues, haven't Haas had endless brake problems since they joined? What's going on there?)
Sweepstake on which corner Seb bins it at next week? 😉
at least he’s not in Sainz’s shoes. Realising you’ve signed up just when Ferrari look like imploding yet again must take the edge off it. Ricciardo on the other hand
That Racing Point looks pretty handy. Two multiple world champs available for next year, let's see who ends up partnering Stroll.
LMAO at Ferrari facing the prospect of finishing 5th behind Racing Point and McLaren unless they can get their shit together in the next few weeks.
there can’t be many people who’d gone round the outside of Hamilton
Yup - cos he will just nerf you off if you try as he did here - and get away with it as he gets treated generously by the stewards compared to many.
should have been a drive thru at lest given he nerfed off a guy that had passed him and put him off the podium
and get away with it as he gets treated generously by the stewards compared to many.
that'll be the 5 second penalty that took him off the podium and the same penalty any other driver would have got?
Lewis knew what he was doing - looking at the on-boards he could have easily been 3 to 4 foot further to the right. He was far from troubling the apex of that corner.
He didn't nerf Albon - just made life very hard for him. Albon will learn that overtaking the best F1 drivers is a tough job.
5 second penalty is consistent with what others have received in the past.
5 second penalty is consistent with what others have received in the past.
I'm a bit confused now what the rules actually are. I thought last year it was deemed acceptable to run people wide on the outside.
Edit: just rewatched the incident and Lewis tags his rear wheel, I misremembered their positions as being alongside each other
cos he will just nerf you off if you try
Hamilton hardly has a history of “nerfing people off”, he has a justifiable reputation as one of the fairest wheel-to-wheel racers on the grid. Ultimately you don’t win races by backing down in every confrontation and there’s a fine line between legitimately holding your line and causing a collision; any good racer will be right on that margin and Lewis was right on it yesterday.
Remember Verstappen vs Leclerc at turn 3 last year? Much more of a “nerf”. No penalty there: fair racing, said the stewards, despite Verstappen barging Leclerc from the inside whereas Albon put himself in the danger zone by trying round the outside where there’s always a good risk of your back end being nudged. So I’m not sure how you perceive a pro-Hamilton bias.
Fundamentally, trying round the outside of a medium speed corner with a gravel trap right next to the kerb is a super-risky strategy, especially if the person you’re trying to pass isn’t known for backing down. (Note that he did back down earlier in the race: when he was on the outside in the same corner.)
Not saying that it’s Albon’s fault and Hamilton was a bystander, but it’s racing, I don’t think anyone did anything wrong there. Albon rolled the dice (and all credit to him—he’s a great overtaker and had it worked he’d have achieved something amazing) but I think that’s one where he just needs to accept he got unlucky.
To me it’s a borderline penalty. Not super harsh, but for most of F1’s existence no-one would have batted an eyelid.
I dont understand why Bottas didnt let Hamilton overtake, then allow him to get 5 seconds ahead ?
Given team orders are allowed, they missed an opportunity.
Because in an unknown number of races season, a bad result like yesterday could mean Lewis doesn't get championship #7 this year.
I thought the turn3 penalty was harsh, Albon had acres of track space to his left, but he turned into Hamilton's line just after he got his nose in front.
Another steward inconsistent penalty imo.
I dont understand why Bottas didnt let Hamilton overtake, then allow him to get 5 seconds ahead ?
Bottas is serious about wanting to win the championship. Rosberg did it, so Bottas just needs to drive well and have a bit of luck and he might do it too. If you recall, Hamilton didn't mind holding up Rosberg to let other cars catch him when they were battling for the championship. Nothing wrong with that, but it shows you can't expect your teammate to do you any favours when a championship is at stake.
Obviously Bottas wouldn’t have voluntarily let Hamilton past, no driver would be stupid enough to have done that. It’s more a question of why Toto or James didn’t make the call. (Unless they did and Bottas ignored it, but you’d think that if that radio message had happened it would have been broadcast.)
It's not up to Bottas to make that call either - Toto was the one who should've been on the radio to engineer a team 1-2 finish but AFAIK nobody from Merc made that decision.
This. Bottas is the only serious challenger to LH this year. While it's undecided, don't expect any favours from either to the other.
IIRC, at the title decider with Rosberg, Merc were asking Hamilton to stop messing around and trying to back Rosberg up because they wanted the 1-2 finish for the team wheras a 1-2 finish was the last thing Hamilton wanted. Hamilton ignored them, which is not really surprising. Can't really imagine them expecting Bottas to do any different, especially seeing as how much faster their car seems to be.
I think Merc were genuinely worried about a double DNF if the gearbox sensor issues they were seeing caused a failure.
That's probably why they didn't try playing a cute strategy at then end to get Hamilton 5 seconds clear of Le Clerc or Norris for that matter.
Yeah, plenty of ways in which that call could have backfired, so it’s understandable that they didn’t make it, just as it’d be understandable if they did.
Norris delivered an absolute belter to make sure he was within 5 seconds of Hamilton, though. Great effort.
Of course the big question from the weekend that nobody's looking at - who's winning the face mask battle? Poor old Lando suffering with a shonky McLaren design that wanted to fall of his nose, LeClerc having to fiddle with his every 10 seconds. Toto rocking the aero-screen looked pretty cool, but I think RedBull showed everyone how it should be done.
LeClerc having to fiddle with his every 10 seconds
Apparently they know about it and will be giving him a better one in Hungary.
Have to say, much as it looked the more practical option, I thought Toto's look was less "F1 principal" and more "pound-shop dental hygienist" 🙂
Toto won the mask battle - less to fiddle with, and it enables him to communicate better to his team members. Agreed, it may not be quite as sexy or allow as much opportunity for branding, but I'd like to think that's a secondary concern for him
As you’d expect when their own car from last year would’ve given them a kicking
As you’d expect when their own
carengine from last year would’ve given them a kicking
FIFY
I don't believe last years car couldn't go round corners and just deployed 2,000bhp down the straights
All three Ferrari powered teams were massively slower this year. It's not impossible that they all screwed up their aero, but...
FIA reaches ‘settlement’ with Ferrari following 2019 engine investigation
ON a slightly different topic. I have been critical in the past of Hamilton for not living in the real world and frankly acting like a spoilt brat. However I think his comments over the black lives matter have shown him in a very different light and been thoughtful, respectful and wise. He made points clearly and fairly and without criticising or alienating others.
I think this should be applauded
ON a slightly different topic. I have been critical in the past of Hamilton for not living in the real world and frankly acting like a spoilt brat. However I think his comments over the black lives matter have shown him in a very different light and been thoughtful, respectful and wise. He made points clearly and fairly and without criticising or alienating others.
I think this should be applauded
Agreed, Lewis has gone way up in my estimation over the last few months.
Ferrari panicking?
Yup, it would seem so.
It's worth remembering that the car's aero is a balancing act between downforce and drag. It looks as though all the Ferrari powered cars were designed around a more powerful engine package that fell foul of the regulations last year. It's not simply a case of removing front and rear wing to correct the problem, the entire aero package is flawed and it's not easily fixable - we only need to look at McLaren back in 2017/18 to see how this can manifest itself. Also, Ferrari will be stuck with this car and engine for this year and next.
Leclerc's second place at the weekend was a drive worthy of champion, Vettel looked as though he simply couldn't be arsed anymore.
The Race have an excellent summary here.
A couple of other things to think about are:
i) The design team will look at the different circuit configurations and decide how to balance the needs of them all. Merc seem to have done this very well for the last few years. They haven't been fastest at every circuit, but best overall. Ferrari may have settled for a different compromise that didn't work at this specific circuit, but will be better at others. Still, I can't seem them being too happy about fighting for fifth places with McLaren and Racing Point.
ii) The Ferrari engine probably lost a lot of power in qualifying mode, but won't be as badly affected in race mode.
Ferrari are just being Ferrari - the only time in history when they were consistently good was during the Schumacher era.
Unless they hit the ground with a perfect car for the new regs in 2022 they could easily go another 20 years between championships.
Ferrari are just being Ferrari – the only time in history when they were consistently good was
during the Schumacher erawhen they handed the team over for foreigners to run.
On another point - did F1 use the services of a GCSE art student to make that font choice? It's horrible and just doesn't work in heavier weights! 🙂
I thought the turn3 penalty was harsh, Albon had acres of track space to his left, but he turned into Hamilton’s line just after he got his nose in front.
Another steward inconsistent penalty imo.
eh, were you watching a different incident? I thought the stewards had no choice TBH. Hamilton tagged his rear wheel, meaning Albon had clearly got ahead of Hamilton, and from the on board you can hear that Hamilton hasn't lifted at all. He could've lifted, opened up the steering and given Albon the corner. Hamilton's a race-driver so he's not going to do that, but the penalty's consistent with the rules.
I think this should be applauded
Yes, agreed.
I think the font choice is to look a little bit like a race track from above? At least that's what the "M" reminds me of.
eh, were you watching a different incident? I thought the stewards had no choice TBH. Hamilton tagged his rear wheel, meaning Albon had clearly got ahead of Hamilton, and from the on board you can hear that Hamilton hasn’t lifted at all. He could’ve lifted, opened up the steering and given Albon the corner.
In terms of forward movement alone, Albon hit Hamilton: his rear wheel collided with Hamilton's front from behind. Clearly, though, there's lateral movement, and the question of whether Hamilton caused the collision. Had he lifted off close to impact then the impact would simply have been harder. Had he lifted off early in the move then he could have taken a tighter line (not opened the steering up—that refers to reducing steering input, which would have taken him towards Albon quicker) but as you note, that's not necessarily the action of a successful racing driver.
The question is really one of whether Hamilton could and should have taken a tighter line, which would have meant ceding the corner quite early on. The stewards clearly felt that he should have. A tight call, probably just about the right one, but only just.
These questions are best left to ex-racers who have all the info at their fingertips - like the Stewards. I always think its a bit daft when us armchair enthusiastic fans try to call it one way or another.
The stewards clearly felt that he should have. A tight call, probably just about the right one, but only just.
Nah, very clearly Hamilton's fault. You can tell the stewards thought so to, as it took them no time at all once they'd looked at the footage (and probably listened to the onboard of Hamilton keeping his foot flat to the floor) I don't think any racing driver worth his pay would've done anything different though.
he could have taken a tighter line, not opened the steering up
Yep, you're right, thanks for the correction, after I read it back I realised I'd got it the wrong way round, but it was too late to edit. D'oh!
I always think its a bit daft when us armchair enthusiastic fans try to call it one way or another.
Oh, absolutely. It's utter nonsense, but still fun to discuss 👍
Vettel, Hamilton, bad as each other 😉
And both outclassed by their teammates on the day.
Also, can't wait for Verstappen and Hamilton to go properly head to head. It was a shame that Verstappen's race ended so quickly and in the way that it did on Sunday
I can't wait for more "hilarious" antics when things aren't going his way
Definitely no seat for Vettel anywhere then is there?
Definitely no seat for Vettel anywhere then is there?
It will be F1's loss if that's the case, as he's a brilliant driver on his day. I can't believe he won't find a car.
Alonso at Renault?
Well, that is going to be one mother of a train wreck.
I can’t believe he won’t find a car.
Vettel’s out, always was IMO. Even if he wasn’t, he’s not exactly selling himself right now in any respect.
Definitely no seat for Vettel anywhere then is there?
Will Racing Point dump Perez for an ex-champ? Not impossible.
Bottas was my bet to go to Renault, but that's dead. Will Merc dump him for Vettel? Not impossible.
But, my money's on Seb changing nappys next year unless he wants to hang out with Kimi again.
Will Merc dump him for Vettel? Not impossible.
I can't believe that Hamilton doesn't have a contract that gives him some say over his team-mate. Surely?
he’s not exactly selling himself right now in any respect.
No kidding, He's clearly had enough of racing with Ferrari.
Will Racing Point dump Perez for an ex-champ?
iirc Perez brings a lot of personal sponsorship to the team, it's effectively a pay to drive deal. Vettel will want paying, it wouldn't make any sense from any angle.
I can’t believe that Hamilton doesn’t have a contract that gives him some say over his team-mate. Surely?
Hamilton doesn't have a contract signed and is asking for a big pay rise. Having Vettel available reduces Hamilton's leverage. My money is on Hamilton and Bottas being re-signed next year, but crazier things have happened. My guess is that Vettel would drive for free if Merc offered him a seat.
I think Merc would look at Vettel’s last couple of seasons and keep clear of the rolling cluster ****.
Alonso at Renault?
Kind of feel sorry for Seb, but his performance on Sunday was one to forget. I get that it must be difficult for a four-times WDC to muster the enthusiasm to trundle round in the fifth fastest car on the grid, but the thought of Vettel heading to retirement at thirty three (he was born in 1987 FFS!) is a little disheartening. I can't see Merc offering him Bottas' seat, nor can I see him at Aston Martin unless Stroll makes a real pig's ear of things this year.
Alonso has a remarkable talent for upsetting manufacturers and it isn't just limited to Formula One. He'll be returning to F1 after a two-year sabbatical, forty years old and with a vaunted hotshoe team mate fifteen years his junior and a car that'll be midfield at best. Hmm...
My money is on Hamilton and Bottas being re-signed next year
I dunno, there are a couple of question marks there. One is how long does Hamilton want to keep going (probably a while longer) and the other is whether Bottas can properly sustain a title challenge thus year. If we get a good way into the season and Bottas has crumbled, my money’s on Hamilton and Russell. If Bottas is leading the championship through more than just good fortune when Toto comes to blow the dust off his pen, who knows?
I can't believe:
1. Renault have gone for Alonso
2. Alonso has gone for Renault
Ok, so Renault get a fast driver who can help develop the car but he's never been one to create team harmony, but what does he get out of it? He'll be in the midfield at best...
or can I see him at Aston Martin unless Stroll makes a real pig’s ear of things this year.
Doesn’t Stroll Snr have a sizeable investment in AM? If so jnr won’t be moving?
One is how long does Hamilton want to keep going (probably a while longer)
Hamilton is 35 and Schumacher* was 37 when he last won a GP (2006) . Wasn't Schumacher considered to be pretty fit? Can Hamilton maintain his current form for another 2 years? I'd have thought he can win races, whether he can resists the likes of Albon, Verstappen, LeClerc, and continue to win Championships, is another matter. I'd have thought his age, wage have got to start working against him at some point haven't they?
*Not the oldest to win a GP, but most of the 40+ year old drivers who were winning were racing back in the 1950's. Any bets on whether Hamilton can continue into his 40s?
Let's have a battle of the has-beens at Renault next year, Alonso Vs Vettel. \o/