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Merc may be setting the pace at the mo but reports from the circuit suggest that the Ferrari looks the better car. Times from testing can be pretty irrelevant, you don't know the truth until Q3 in Australia.
Looks like a decent pace for Palmer on the softs
Times from testing can be pretty irrelevant, you don't know the truth until Q3 in Australia.
This is a very good point, especially when you consider the rules change means that everyone is still learning about their respective aero packages. The hard work happens between now and Melbourne, when teams work out how to fine tune the aero. However, the teams with the most mileage under their tyres stand to benefit from the data collected.
looking at the ferrari it seems to me what they've worked on is the engine cooling so they can match the sustained "high" engine modes that mercs can do combine that to a decent aero package we may well see the dreaded finger of doom much more often, then again they may drop the ball again.
Given the alternative to a Ferrari challenge, isn't the finger now actually sought after?
I'm wondering whether Williams will regret swapping Massa out for Stroll today. At least they'd have got decent data from Massa's runs and I'd have thought that was more valuable to them than letting Stroll get some experience in this 1st test.
Hindsight is wonderful though, he could have gone out and nudged the mercs for pace! You don't know till you try.... turns out he's a bit of a maldonado.
Be fair - he's obviously either overdriving (as suggested by Gary Anderson) or the car is unpredictable - probably the former. That can be learned and he's very much a newbie so a few offs is hardly surprising.
McLaren can't complain about a lack of Honda power. Alonso just can't get on the throttle properly between Turn 2 and Turn 3 because of a lack of overall grip. There's plenty more of the old gee-gees available if the chassis was stronger.Gary Anderson
ouch.
Not looking good for McL though - Alonso way off the pace (testing caveats of course but given recent history, I can't see McL not wanting to do something decent if they can to boost morale) and again from track side they're saying the McL isn't getting the power down at all well so it isn't just a power deficit.
I'm still waiting for Red Bull to show their hand!
Can't believe Mr. Newey has got it wrong with his 'simple' car.
Let's hope so. The high speed trap figures are promising for Renault (as the RB's don't look to be running super low DF) but nothing spectacular on times yet. The suggestion from RB was that they were validating the main aero flow on the car and that there would be more add ons next week which would then show the true pace.
Looks like Ferrari werre mighty fast again today! Although I seem to remember something like this happening last year too 🙂
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39133608
I imagine he's feeling slightly uncomfortable! The lack needs a new Pastor!
McLaren leading the lap count today while Merc lounge in the garages.
According to Gary Anderson, that McLaren is an absolute turd. It can't get power down effectively, it's also the slowest through the speed trap. One thing is clear, it's not just the engine that's the problem.
That 'electrical fault' means Hamilton won't run today. Bet he's gutted!
@PJM1974 - Anderson always seems to have a downer on McLaren though, think it's something historic but even with Ron gone he's not letting go. Or maybe it really is that bad, but last year's chassis was fairly well regarded so I can't see them making a noodle.
He's been very specific when point out flaws though. Unable to get on the gas between 2 and 3, massive lift needed in 3 to get the car to turn and so on. It's not like the lap times are proving otherwise either
last year's chassis was fairly well regarded
By who, except McLaren own spin & PR. Their chassis has been rubbish for a good few year now, before Honda got on board for sure.
Their chassis has been rubbish for a good few year now
again, according to who? we can play this game for hours 🙂
Mercs electrical fault seemed to have fixed itself!
again, according to who? we can play this game for hours
We could!
This was news to me, but according to Ted on Sky last night, McLaren have only just started doing wind tunnel and CFD tests with the car at an angle. Apparently all the other big teams having been doing this for years to simulate the car when corning (which is where you need the downforce).
The static car facing forwards in a wind tunnel is apparently and outdated way of doing things. It has a place, but not as it used to.
#everydayisaschoolday
Aero was a McLaren weak point for years - they chased peak downforce which meant the car was unpredicatable so couldn't be exploited. I think it was only when PP arrived that they decided that delivering 90% of the potential peak downforce for 90% of the time was better than 100% of the peak for 1% of the time.
Another good day for Ferrari. McLaren still waaaaay off the pace though- I suppose I was secretly hoping that once they were up and running that they might show a bit more potential! Oh well, time to start having a guess at when Alonso will jump ship I suppose. My money is on China 🙂
I'll guess at Melbourne...
McLaren still waaaaay off the pace though- I suppose I was secretly hoping that once they were up and running that they might show a bit more potential!
I'd like to think they are sandbagging but it looks like they'll be struggling to beat Renault and massa at the moment. (I expect they'll be able to get past Stroll while he's parked somewhere). Hope Ferrari have got a Super Mario mode for quali, but especially hope that kimi shows what he's got so we don't see too much of that finger.
Oh, and what was the point of a wet test day when hardly anyone did serious running on the wets/inters? Useful for aero calibration and pit stop practice I guess, and to fix those pesky electrical problems on the merc.
Edit - I'll take an emotional farewell at the Spanish grand prix
Good shout about a Spanish GP swansong. A few fly-aways to see if things really are as bad as they seem, and then join Nico on the beach!
Not good news coming from Honda...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-admits-mechanical-issue-a-worry-for-f1-season-start-879232/
...begs the question - do Honda have the funds for F1 as it currently is, or are they small-beer in the car world now.
Good to see Palmer so close to the Red Bull again although the RB clearly doesn't have all of its best aero bits on yet. Next week will tell us more, particularly if Renault turn the wick up a bit...
Here we go again - I wonder what attachments we'll see over the next 4 days!?
Some very respectable running from Red Bull and Williams, who are both matching the Mercedes' pace on softs from last week
Massa is a surprise as Williams have tended not to show their hand much in testing. Or maybe we'll find out that the real pace is a 1.17 and everyone's mucking about on full tanks and low engine modes for now.
Haha exactly! 🙂
Another engine change for McLaren!
🙁
Shocker.
Well, not really, unfortunately...
Another engine change for McLaren!
Argh!
Oopsy...
I seem to have only bothered to read McLaren related posts for the past few months, partly because I'd love to see them win again but I can't help thinking that the current run of form is going to result in a huge falling out between McLaren, Honda and Alonso before too long. Alonso must be rueing that vacant seat at Merc.
The sensible thing to have done would have been to encourage Honda to invest in Manor prior to it's demise. Remember that Merc are benefitting from the on track testing of Mercedes GP, Williams and Force India with a huge combined mileage. Likewise, Renault have themselves, Red Bull and Toro Rosso dutifully lapping away to say nothing of Ferrari. There's very little that you can do to catch up, short of sending round a few NSX mule cars around Suzuka, but I'm not sure about the regs around engine testing.
McLaren are between a rock and a hard place. Without Honda they are screwed and with Honda they are screwed. No other engine options easily available and in a 10 year deal. Honda do have previous for walking away.
The big worry is why none of these issues showed up in the thousands of miles running the power units will have done on the dyno. If I was them I'd be calling Mario Illen and paying him what he wanted. He has helped Renault start getting its house in order.
McL can't go it without Honda at the moment as they need the money until they get some sponsorship, which of course they won't get without results or a name driver which is Alonso...
Honda will get there eventually (last year's engine was gradually getting there even with the development restrictions) but it looks like it's going to be a horrible start to the year.
Wonder if any of this rubs off on McLaren's road car business? I'd imagine the F1 link isn't front and centre in their marketing at the moment... Or are they effectively totally separate now?
MrSalmon - MemberWonder if any of this rubs off on McLaren's road car business? I'd imagine the F1 link isn't front and centre in their marketing at the moment... Or are they effectively totally separate now?
Conversely, I wonder if the road car business is having a negative effect on the F1 side? When they dropped off in the nineties they attributed some of the blame to focusing on the F1 road car too much
Alonso must be rueing that vacant seat at Merc
Although I am sure he was approached I don't think that Alonso was ever the number one choice due to Bottas being
1) Cheaper
2) Fast enough
3) More likely to get on with Lewis and
4) Easier to remove from his current team due to the many links between Merc and Williams
Complete disaster for Mclaren - oh how the mighty have fallen. Hard to see a way back for them, as Honda are clearly pretty useless and McLaren themselves are a fair way off the pace also. Lack of sponsors means lack of investment and the downward spiral continues.
I thought the new McLaren livery reminded me of someting. It came to me today.
[img] 
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They are no better off than last year. Or the year before. All the others seem to have made real progress.
I bet Ron is widdling himself.
Williams spent years in the wilderness before there recent return to form (and they still aren't really challenging for race wins)
McLaren's long term strategy and their acceptance that they will never win a title unless they are a full "works" team with access to their own engine is correct but they look like they have a very long road ahead of them to even challenge the mid tier Merc teams
They are no better off than last year. Or the year before. All the others seem to have made real progress.
Unfortunately I feel this may well be the case! I'm imagining Button is hitting the gym pretty hard right now in preparation lol
In fact I reckon he'll be driving the Tango coloured lemon by Bahrain 🙂
I'm imagining Button is hitting the gym pretty hard right now in preparation lol
funnily enough he posted selfie the other day 😉
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😆 😆
There's a big difference this year though - freedom to develop the engine. Catching up was really difficult coming in 2 or 3 years behind the other manufacturers. At least they're getting problems out of the way in the tests so that they can try and fix some of them for Melbourne but it looks like McL will be taking a lot of grid penalties this year right now...
The unfortunate thing for McLaren is while the reliability is so bad they cannot even evaluate the chassis so they don't know if the development of the chassis will be going in the right direction. Iirc they have been struggling to even go over 10 laps.
It's a very sorry state of affairs right now.
Brilliant ScottChegg. Oh blimey I can't believe I just got your name.
I'm hoping Williams have something as good as it seems in testing.
Honda are dangerously close to reproduce the Toyota thing. I wonder if engineering arrogance is playing a part here too ?
Honda are dangerously close to reproduce the Toyota thing. I wonder if engineering arrogance is playing a part here too ?
Of course, why else would anyone be stoopid enough to fund an F1 team! 🙂 That's why no-one is worried about peak oil, the entire sport is fueled by arrogance 😆
Anyone else old enough to remember the Honda 4 stroke GP bike when everyone else was running 2 strokes? Or their "we will never make a diesel engine" mantra?
Another bad start to the day for Alfonso!
ScottChegg - Member
I thought the new McLaren livery reminded me of someting. It came to me today.They are no better off than last year. Or the year before. All the others seem to have made real progress.
I bet Ron is widdling himself.
Still reminded of this
http://sniffpetrol.com/2015/06/08/concern-grows-for-whitmarsh/#.WL6vKDw8bYU
I've just been clearing out my bookmarks and found this link to a 2010 F1 testing gallery...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/f1photos/sets/72157623326645542/
...they look like F3 cars compared to the 2017 ones. It's amazing how quick you get used to the new fat tyres!
Some fancy floor detail on the Torro Rosso...
[img] 
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Regarding the McHonda engine deal I came accross this from James Allen in his comments section...
Whitmarsh did this deal as I recall
Its not even as if poor Ron is getting the last laugh!
Alonso's thoughts on the new engine...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128416/alonso-honda-has-no-power-no-reliability
Looks like he's in for more sun bathing this season.
Well perhaps Sauber will have some competition at the back then.
At least he's not letting it get him down.
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Mclaren has stopped out on the track.
Stopped twice I think.
edit:
11:54 Vandoorne's back out in the McLaren.
11:57 RED FLAG.
11:57 It's Vandoorne AGAIN in the McLaren.
🙄
Must be pretty demoralising for the factory at this point to be hitting so many snags
Good lap from Seb, 1m19.024
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128425/vettel-cruises-to-best-lap-of-testing-so-far
edit 2:
https://twitter.com/f1writers/status/839805385246658561
woah 😮 woah 😯 woah? 😡 ... wooah 🙁
Seems like Sebby was lifting here and there during his quick run too, adding up best sector times puts the real pace easily in the 18s, and they're probably not in full bore quali engine mode either.
McLaren. Utterly predictable. They've broken down AGAIN!
I can't decide if Ron would be finding this hysterical or is having a fit
All this hasn't suddenly happened since he left so I don't think he'll be too smug yet
They were at least making clear progress last year. Hopefully it's one step back (new engine) for two forward but...
Okay, so continuing my theme of only popping up to post something McLaren related, would McLaren be able to swap to 2016's (relatively) reliable power unit?
Does the abolition of the token system for 2017 mean that Honda could feasibly design a new engine for the latter part of the season?
Does the abolition of the token system for 2017 mean that Honda could feasibly design a new engine for the latter part of the season?
The 2017 engine is a new design anyway, so no, there'd be no time to design a new one.
They say they went as far as they could with the old engine and this new, Mercedes style engine, offers more scope for development.
It wasn't so long ago that people were questioning the wisdom of Lulu's move to Mercedes. Crazy to see such an epic reversal of fortune. 😯
Yep, it'll prob be a dismal first half to the season with some mediocre results in the second half for McLaren. Disappointing stuff!
Great update from the feasting live link.
10:58 Teams are supposed to be fine-tuning their cars at this stage. The only thing McLaren's fine-tuning is the Barcelona recovery procedure. 🙂
I'm not really bothered about McLaren as such but it's yet another wasted season for Alonso and maybe Vandoorne
So far thsi year Honda has less than 1/4 of the testing mileage of any other engine manufacturer - that's got to hinder the development (or error finding) process.
Though on the flip side, if they had supplied another team we'd now be getting twice as many red flags in testing.