[Closed] F1 2017 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

I must admit asking LH to move over in the circumstances was a career low. Why the **** would you even think that? It says something about the way Merc viewed Lewis, not by his talent or standing. Secondbergs quiting slapped his boss in the face too though. Backed the wrong horse there fella as it destroys alot of the Merc PR sponsors roadtrip post win.

I just hope Merc treat Lewis properly this year. They don't come across as a nice business.

fair play to him 😀

he's reached the pinnacle of his sport, winning against one of the greats in equal equipment. Probably won't ever feel as good again. I've always though the public underestimated Rosberg.

What if this is just a ruse? He's no real intention of retirement just wants to be offered more money..

Yes he won fair and square. It was just luck how Lewis had such an unreliable car to Nico's. Same factory; one looked after, one not. Teams say it's only about the constructors but they and their sponsors revel in a win and the promotional run. I bet if they knew what NR had been thinking they would have given Lewis an equal car. ..

He's probably bored.

It was just luck how Lewis had such an unreliable car to Nico's

They both suffered 3 reliability issues throughout the season, you could argue that Hamilton's were more ill timed, but the idea that he had more isn't a real one

German company funding a predominantly British based and developed team ( IIRC, the PU's are Ilmor?) and more than likely, the head nacho's of the Mercedes wanted a German champion driver.

After all, if it wasn't for the previous team boss, Ross Brawn, putting in place the development strategy for the PU, then Merc would not have enjoyed their period of superiority. It could all lead to a sour taste in the mouth's of the paymaster's and purse string holders.

Hence the garage team swap, unreliability issues experienced and race orders. Job done.

Perhaps NR is aware or has an inkling of this and perhaps this his his way of undermining the fat cats? In which case, fair play to him.

None of this matters in the great scheme of things, regulation changes next year could well prove to end the dominance and give rise to many toys being thrown from the silver pram's

What about Hamilton's terrible starts ? Had the Merc not been such a dominant car he'd have been far behind in the Championship.

Hamilton flounce rumours well I'd have called his bluff on that but then again Imwouod not have resigned him at more money a couple of years ago. I hope Merc get a top driver in, if they just go #2 then 2017 will be so boring as not to be worth watching or even reading about. I don't follow F1 as closely as most here but I see few signs of another car challenging Merc in 2017

Jamby I wouldn't write it off just yet.

The cars should be more interesting, Ferrari, and Red Bull (maybe even Maclaren) will give the Mercedes a run for their money, driver market's all tumbled around (Rosberg effect will cascade down the grid)

Could be one of the best seasons in a while...

They don't come across as a nice business.

None of the F1 teams do; Williams was notorious for treating a championship winner like crap. He called drivers lightbulbs; you just change them for a new one.

All the conspiracy theories above are pure cobblers; NR is going because he wants to. He claims to have put his entire life to one side to make this his best season. Yet Lewis runs him to the wire with his so-called party lifestyle. That must sting.

Merc [u]need[/u] Ham next year. He'll get everything he wants to get the championship. That will include a no. 2 team-mate who will happily come second.

Backed the wrong horse there fella as it destroys alot of the Merc PR sponsors roadtrip post win.

I would imagine Nico will have to do some sort of PR work for sponsors as a way of getting out of his contract AND keeping some money coming in. If anything it's probably better as they're not constrained by racing etc; he could be a "brand ambassador" easily.

@atlaz I am sure he'll have millions worth of endorsements / brand ambassador stuff to do plus managing his investments.

Any decent driver in a 2017 Merc will be world champion, as above Williams (and other teams know this) its mostly about the car.

Lets see nick, tbh 2016 was interesting to me as Hamilton didn't win. Watching him win every race by miles having qualified P1 holds no interest for me, I should say in all honesty I didn't watch a single whole GP live on TV this year or go to a race - it wasn't a compelling season.

Williams was notorious for treating a championship winner like crap. He called drivers lightbulbs; you just change them for a new one

What about Hamilton's terrible starts ? Had the Merc not been such a dominant car he'd have been far behind in the Championship.

Australia, Hamilton starts from pole, 6th at end of first lap, ends up second to winner Rosberg.
Bahrein, Hamilton starts from pole, 7th at end of first lap, ends up third to winner Rosberg.
Italy, Hamilton starts from pole, 6th at end of first lap, ends up second to winner Rosberg.

ergo, Hamilton's poor starts cost him the title.

Interestingly, this year only 3 fastest laps for Hamilton in racing.

A one year sabbatical?

German company funding a predominantly British based and developed team ( IIRC, the PU's are Ilmor?)

PU's are from Mercedes AMG HPP. Used to be Ilmor, but now a Mercedes company that do other development work for Mercedes.

Alonso camping out for Monday morning opening!...

[img] [/img]

https://twitter.com/SomersF1/status/804701178596651008?lang=en

I reckon either Valtieri Bottas or Pascal Wehrlein

Apparently Lauda took it badly. He thought he'd go for a second title.

Backed the wrong pony there sweetie.

It's a kind of mixed up Lauda v Hunt :). The party boy is multiple champion and committed to more. The hard working clean living family man has won and leaves as his goal is achieved.

[quote=vinnyeh ]Italy, Hamilton starts from pole, 6th at end of first lap, ends up second to winner Rosberg.
ergo, Hamilton's [s]poor starts[/s] reliability issues cost him the title.

CBA checking the others, but in Italy at least the poor start was mostly the result of another mechanical issue.

[quote=nickc ]It was just luck how Lewis had such an unreliable car to Nico's
They both suffered 3 reliability issues throughout the season, you could argue that Hamilton's were more ill timed, but the idea that he had more isn't a real one

Are you sure about that? Where were Nico's 3 reliability issues? Not even counting Italy I'm seeing 5 for LH, and they certainly weren't equivalent in impact (there's no argument at all about that - I can't even remember Nico having a mechanical problem, they were clearly of such little magnitude).

re you sure about that? Where were Nico's 3 reliability issues?

He had brake overheating at Singapore and held off Ricciardo for the win, at Russia he had MGU-K issues that meant the engine was rubbish, the same 'settings' issues at Baku that Hamilton had (he managed to fix it faster than LH did), and gearbox issues at Silverstone. That's just off the top of my head. I think he had some practice and qualifying failures as well.

Does it matter? The championship is won by the driver who scores most points. Reliability, accidents, tactics, etc. are just as much a part of racing as is driving fast.

Tinfoil hats anyone? Ive got mine but it seems the Hamilton fans need to get theirs.
Agree the championship is over and move on. 2017 is going to be interesting on a driver and car front.

New colours for Mclaren and a new name for Manor?

No comment on RBR's new engine manufacturer then?

Bit a a car breaker that Hamilton. If he had some mechanical sympathy like Mr Rosberg he might have won the championship this year. 😉

Just another way of looking at it.

No comment on RBR's new engine manufacturer then?

It's Renault - just as was this season. Far too late in next year's cars development stage to change now.

Woops, yes you're right, my bad! Was getting confused :/

Niki is still deluded it seems:

[quote=Lauda ]we had the quickest driver set-up over the last three years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38199637

aracer -
Niki is still deluded it seems:

I'm not sure you've understood what he's claiming there

What is he saying aracer ?

He's saying they had the quickest drivers. Why what else do you think he means by "the quickest driver set-up"?

I translated that into "car" but I confess I am not a close follower of F1.

I do believe I will be proven right that even a mid ranking driver is going to finish 2nd in the Mercedes. I am not sure Hamilton could cope with a top driver regularly challenging / beating him.

Just seen this

Maybe his decision shouldn't have come as such a surprise

Edit: oh that doesn't seem to work

That is an excellent clip and both of them come out well from it.

I am not sure Hamilton could cope with a top driver regularly challenging / beating him.

In general, they are all so competitive they cannot be anythign other than tension when your teammate is your only rival as your car is so much better than the rest

Agreed that's an excellent clip, it seems so much more pertinent now in light of Rosberg's retirement!

Not sure if it's been said already, but my money would be on Wehrlein to Williams and Bottas to Mercedes.

Pascal gets to move up the grid and Bottas brings experience and consistency.

Rosberg looks utterly broken in that clip, Lewis already focusing on 2017...

Rosberg looks utterly broken in that clip

It was in no way a slight against him-just an observation of how they both looked. He looked destroyed to me though by the pressure of it all...

[quote=the-muffin-man ]my money would be on Wehrlein to Williams and Bottas to Mercedes

I've certainly seen Bottas suggested as the most likely replacement for Rosberg (not on here). The only question is whether he's too good, and likely to cause tension in the team - I appreciate he doesn't seem to be mentioned as one of the top drivers any more, but is that down to not having a competitive car the last couple of years?

Sounds like the most likely option at this stage.

Williams get a big chunk of cash.
Bottas will get a good haul of points throughout the year and is too laid back to ruffle to many feathers. Fast enough to push Hamilton but not beat him on a regular basis. Wehrlein cheap/free to Williams and will do a solid job until things change at Merc.

Would love to know how much Alonso is trying to get out of his contract

Not sure he could cope with a top driver beating him?

Most drivers go off the boil or lose their edge when it's a big gap between titles.

What did Lewis do? Came back and won two on the trot.

He went through a phase of crashing alot, being beaten by a good but not exceptional team mate, then Vettel.

So I think he's been there, done that and smacked down two more world titles.

What more do you need? Hes already in too form, better than anyone and finally with the team having to back him. Let's see how many more races he wins.

Like I said do people actually watch F1 on stw? It'd be like me commentating on Man Utd. I can see with eyes but my brain doesn't understand the game.

I've certainly seen Bottas suggested as the most likely replacement for Rosberg (not on here).

I've probably seen the same source; Toto has an interest in Bottas' management, so he obviously rates him.

Wehrlein is also seen as arrogant and self centered. I'm not sure Merc need another one of those...

[quote=Chew ]Would love to know how much Alonso is trying to get out of his contract

I thought he had a break clause (hence why they're retaining Button) - though that would depend on Merc actually wanting to pair him with LH. It would certainly be interesting - Alonso seems to be a lot more laid back than he was in 2007, and LH probably is too.

Most champions win because there are in a championship car and usually one that is capable winning the constructor championship. Yes there have been occasions when the WDC is won by a team and another wins WCC.

I think Schumacher came back and won a boat load of titles after a gap in his titles. The main difference is he built a team around him to build a championship car and had a clear number 2. Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel etc.. give them a championship winning car and they will win it. As seen this year the driver cant win the championship without a decent car no matter how good some people think they are ( Hamilton in his engine eating Merc)

Not sure if it's been said already, but my money would be on Wehrlein to Williams and Bottas to Mercedes

A very neat solution! It would leave Williams with two inexperienced drivers though

It would leave Williams with a lot more money which may be more important for them.

Thinking about it I do wonder about the discussion at Merc:

- we should get Bottas
- but what if he ends up being really quick and causing trouble within the team again?
- that's fine, I'm sure we can cope with that
- why don't we just get Alonso then?

Not sure he could cope with a top driver beating him?

Most drivers go off the boil or lose their edge when it's a big gap between titles.

What did Lewis do? Came back and won two on the trot.

He went through a phase of crashing alot, being beaten by a good but not exceptional team mate, then Vettel.

So I think he's been there, done that and smacked down two more world titles.

What more do you need? Hes already in too form, better than anyone and finally with the team having to back him. Let's see how many more races he wins.

Like I said do people actually watch F1 on stw? It'd be like me commentating on Man Utd. I can see with eyes but my brain doesn't understand the game.

Im glad to see someone watches F1 rather than just reading the headlines.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328

Bit embarrassing for the bloke who won it? In a sense.

Yes he (Nico) beat the best. He isn't rated to best though. These are team managers who are very much 360degrees in the business.

Any idea how often the Team Managers Top Driver hasn't been the World Champion?

Yes he (Nico) beat the best. He isn't rated to best though. These are team managers who are very much 360degrees in the business.

I think if you asked Nico if he felt he was a better driver than Lewis he'd probably disagree.

Most F1 drivers believe they are the best while they are in the car but its amazing the perspective that they gain after stepping out of the cockpit.

I've seen interviews with people like Hill, Coulthard, and Webber where they admit they had better team mates or rivals. I think Nico would probably admit Lewis is a more talented driver but he triumphed through a bit of good fortune and a singular focus once he realised 2016 was "his year"

Mercedes are considering Alonso,

[url= http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-considering-alonso-as-rosberg-s-replacement-857232/ ]Motorsport[/url]

Because last time a team gave equality parity to strong two team members in a strong car it ended up with a certain Kind mugging them by one point...

I get the feeling that Wolff really doesn't like Lewis.

Because last time a team gave equality parity to strong two team members in a strong car it ended up with a certain Kind mugging them by one point...

And one of them walked down the pitlane and said "You should see the big book I've seen on Ron's desk labelled 'Ferrari MegaTopSecret' "

"Third best driver wins championship" shocker.

If I was a betting man I'd put money on Button, he's sort of semi-available and I think that if he was offered a dominant car like Mercedes then he'd quite quickly forget all of his reservations regarding continuing in the sport 🙂

As much as I'd like to see Button in that seat the Bottas/Wehrlein swap seems most likely IMO. I can't see Alonso and Hamilton ever being teammates again. Vettel is probably the only other top guy badly wanting out of his current seat and I don't see that's a serious prospect.

If I was a betting man I'd put money on Button, he's sort of semi-available and I think that if he was offered a dominant car like Mercedes then he'd quite quickly forget all of his reservations regarding continuing in the sport

Except with totally new cars in play for next year there's no guarantee the car will be dominant and he could be signing up for another season of frustration.

MrSalmon - Member

....... Vettel is probably the only other top guy badly wanting out of his current seat and I don't see that's a serious prospect

Vettel is a non starter, he'd never sign a contract that left him equal with his team mate.

It's getting exciting isn't it? 🙂

Kamui Kobayashi is free!

so is Felipe Nasr

Mercedes have put a halt to Sauber-Wehrlein talks pending their decision. Doubt they'd do that unless he was a serious candidate.

Doubt they'd do that unless he was a serious candidate.

Could mean they are putting him in a Williams, rather than a Merc.

They need experience or Red Bull and Ferrari could nick the constructors title as both have two consistent points scorers.

I can't see how nursing an OK youngster is the way to go for Merc. They've already passed him over for Ocon.

Bring back Pastor!

They've already passed him over for Ocon.

Not necessarily. It could also have been Force India who were offered both of them but perhaps Ocon came with more personal sponsors or less of an ironclad Merc contract. Ocon, it should be remembered, was also Renault's test driver so isn't quite as strongly a silver-arrows man as Wehrlein. Also it seems a little convenient that Hulkenberg and Ocon swapped as Force India race driver and Renault reserve so perhaps there's a little deal between the two teams as well. It's all speculation though. Lets see who gets the deal but it seems clear it won't be Ocon as his name doesn't seem to be mentioned.

They need experience

You don't win the DTM without some ability.

You don't win the DTM without some ability.

Paul Di Resta won it! 😉

[quote=hora ]Yes he (Nico) beat the best. He isn't rated to best though. These are team managers who are very much 360degrees in the business.

I'm sure all the team managers noticed which side of the Merc garage had all the mechanical problems this year - it's only the Rosberg fanbois who claim anything other than that NR won the title due to LH's equipment problems (even Nico admits he's been lucky, but he won it and that's all the record books will mention).

Here's a wild theory. Do you think there's a fair bit of arrogance within Mercedes? Lots of talk about Nico being very intelligent that's then mirrored in the press and commentators, you then get an almost derrorgatory commentary from Wolff, like he talks about a child in regards to Lewis and then you get the recent comments from Nico asking him to move over then driving slowly etc.

Maybe it's just me but alot of people (Merc) seem to look down their noses at Hamilton, even after three titles.

I just don't get it he impression that they see Lewis as a talent or F1 great.

[quote=hora ]Here's a wild theory. Do you think there's a fair bit of arrogance within Mercedes? Lots of talk about Nico being very intelligent that's then mirrored in the press and commentators, you then get an almost derrorgatory commentary from Wolff, like he talks about a child in regards to Lewis and then you get the recent comments from Nico asking him to move over then driving slowly etc.
Maybe it's just me but alot of people (Merc) seem to look down their noses at Hamilton, even after three titles.
I just don't get it he impression that they see Lewis as a talent or F1 great.

missed this, what did he say? link?

[quote=the-muffin-man ]Paul Di Resta won it!
😀

Rossi in the Merc? ........ Vale that is! 😀

Pass the tin foil hat please .. its only the Hamilton fanbois that keep going on that Hamilton should have won the championship. In years to come only the result will count. The same Hamilton conspiracy could ve been said of his time in Mclaren. Really there are other drivers in F1, its like some people have shares in Lewis Hamilton PLC
Lucky I'm not in the football thread otherwise I'd be going on about Man Utd all the time 🙂

I think alonso should have won about 4 or 5 titles by now, if being the best driver was enough.

What's Hulkenburgs position ATM? He would be a compliant team mate for LH.

Massa.

What's Hulkenburgs position ATM? He would be a compliant team mate for LH.

Very recently signed to Renault and kicking himself up and down the the lane 😀

Alonso at Mercedes would make for a very, very exciting season! 🙂

This says to me "there is every chance that we are going to lose Alonso to Mercedes" lol

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10684264/mclaren-confident-fernando-alonso-wont-leave-for-mercedes