[Closed] F1 2017 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

the-muffin-man - Member

So what do we think of the Shield then? I'm not offended by how it looks - and a million times better than the Halo - and in some angles it looks pretty cool...

Looks fine, can't we just call it a windscreen and be done with it yet?

Elsewhere, feedback of "it's a bit blurry" mean it's still not likely to catch on yet

Yeah, not bad. Best of the solutions we've seen so far.

Presumably they'd be using some kind of rain-x type coating in case of rain?

Looks like it ought to improve the aero, so its a win for me (even if it doesn't actually improve the aero, looking like it will is a positive).

Though it makes me think - is there a lot of wind force on their helmets when going at top speed?

Though it makes me think - is there a lot of wind force on their helmets when going at top speed?

I don't think so, as long as they keep their heads upright. They have a headrest and bulkhead behind them. There will be a high pressure area ahead of that bulkhead, the air has to flow around that so the driver's head will be in a pocket of undisturbed air. If they let their heads roll off to the side, I believe they get buffeting. I think that can be a problem if their neck muscles get tired because their head rolls over and gets buffeted, increasing the load on their neck muscles, causing a downward spiral of fatigue.

From the trackside the shield might as well be a full canopy as you spend far more time with an oblique view of the car rather than full side on which is about the only angle where it's obvious that there's nothing around the driver.

Though if it was good enough for batman...

[img] [/img]

Yep, that shield looks good to me! Especially if it saves a life!

Looks way better than the halo,but I wonder if it will provide problems in the wet?
Cracking day here at silverstone today

The tear-offs are going to be huge on that shield

Vettel only did a lap with it then asked for it to be removed as it made him dizzy.

Silverstone was indeed great. Trying not to be too smug with the paddock club tickets that we received from a friends friend (but probably failing)
12yr old son was absolutely loving it. Stood next to Coulthard and Hill 🙂
Hill is almost as grey as me ;-(

God I miss the noise of the n.a. cars.
Interesting that the Honda sounds really quite different to the other cars.

[quote=simondbarnes ]Vettel only did a lap with it then asked for it to be removed as it made him dizzy.

Presumably it makes it harder for him to judge his sideswipes?

Handbags

igm - Member
The tear-offs are going to be huge on that shield

Smaller than the ones the use at Le Mans

I read it was 3 installation laps rather than 1, which would be more like it (but he still didn't like it)

Presumably it makes it harder for him to judge his sideswipes?

🙂

Another 30 place grid penalty for Alonso. Getting rather silly. I wish they would penalise the teams rather than the drivers.

If your at Silverstone tomorrow, make sure you see the Williams anniversary cars on track. The 6 wheeler and my personal all time favourite the FW14b are running!

[url= http://f1.channel4.com/video/karun-drives-the-iconic-fw14b/ ]Karun drives the FW14b[/url]

Wasn't the six wheeler a Tyrell?

[quote=johndoh ]Wasn't the six wheeler a Tyrell?

That had four fronts. The Williams had four rears.

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I stumbled upon the F1 live purely by accident when I headed up to London to see a mate who was over here on business, from Canada.

I didn't have long as I had to meet my mate, but quickly snapped these:

[img][url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4303/35104032784_27768bca90_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4303/35104032784_27768bca90_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Vu2kWy ]F1 Live, London 2017[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/138905744@N02/ ]Mike Kennedy[/url], on Flickr[/img]

[img][url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4308/35104048664_f1faae23a9_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4308/35104048664_f1faae23a9_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Vu2qEm ]F1 Live, London, 2017[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/138905744@N02/ ]Mike Kennedy[/url], on Flickr[/img]

scotroutes - Member
johndoh » Wasn't the six wheeler a Tyrell?
That had four fronts. The Williams had four rears.

That's the one

 

I'm at Silverstone and the minute, today was brilliant, especially Alonso in Q1. Looking forward to the race, planning to ride my MTB round the track after 🙂

Do real people actually buy Paddock Club tickets or is it really just corporate hospitality?

I wish they would penalise the teams rather than the drivers.

I think McHonda have penalized themselves about as much as is possible, hard to see what more the authorities could pile on top of that.

I think McHonda have penalized themselves about as much as is possible, hard to see what more the authorities could pile on top of that.

Good point, although with the amount of components they've used they'd be pretty much guaranteed to be last in the constructors championship rather than being able to change a load of components this weekend to give them a chance in Hungary to possibly overtake Sauber.

[url= http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/20073059/fernando-alonso-need-rivals-make-25-pit-stops ]Alonso seems more optimistic than usual.[/url]

That verstappen vettel battle was excellent

It wouldn't be an F1 race without Vettel moaning about another driver driving in a perfectly legal way

Haha exactly!! 🙂

It's not the same without Martin Brundle on Sky

🙁

Has he left Sky? He was really good when he was on BBC

Poor Kimi

But he gets some luck as Vettel has gone pop too 🙂

He was taken ill just before the start.

Has he left Sky?

Taken to the medical centre before the pitwalk.

Great end to the race, though.

I enjoyed that one. I like Hamilton's attitude and determination a lot but still cringe whenever he speaks 🙂 always been a Raikkonen fan and Bottas seems quite similar. Max is great, especially when he's working it up Vettel, who seems to be becoming quite the **** as he gets older. For a start to finish lead that was a good race.

Another great race. Really enjoying this season! Gald to see my earlier worries about there being no overtaking because of the new aero regs have proved to be wrong 🙂

Just think what it would've been like if pirelli hadn't gone quite so safe on the tyres - bodes well for next year (unless you're kimi or seb ;))

I remember when doing an event at silverstone the tarmac was the coarsest stuff I've ever seen more like coral than tarmac.

Halo all set for 2018 introduction (despite 9 out of 10 teams against it)...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/strategy-group-halo-shield-decision-932802/

...laughable they are sticking this monstrosity on the cars and banning T-wings and shark fins on aesthetic grounds! 😐

F1 cars won't be the same again. Why not stick ruddy great rubber bumpers on them while they are at it.

Given how much contact there seems to have been this year i dont see how you can argue against the Halo, its unfortunate it looks ridiculous but it wont take long for it to just be accepted or even improved on.

Given how much contact there seems to have been this year i don't see how you can argue against the Halo,

And barely a scratch on any driver. F1 is safe enough.

F1 cars should look fast standing still, this makes them look all kinds of wrong.

I'm holding back until we see cars that were actually designed to integrate a Halo into the overall package. So far they've basically cobbled one together as a test mule and worked out how to bolt it to an existing car, but for 2018 I expect it'll flow much better into the overall design.

Imagine the cars of the 80s if they were testing the current requirements for roll hoops and head protection - they'd have bolted on something that required minimal modification to their current car, so it would look way worse than what we ended up with. I'm hoping that the halo will be similar.

See also the 1997 F1 cars - the first year of the raised cockpit edges, they are not aesthetically pleasing at all.

Edit* 1996 by the looks of a google search

Williams found the loophole in the regs and made their 1996 car look good!...

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...I can't envisage a loophole that will make Halo look good.

What's the Halo aiming to prevent? Another Surtees type incident?

Because I doubt it would have helped in Bianchi or Massa's crashes. Maybe it would have protected the driver in a pile up like Grosjean going across Alonso's car at Spa.

What's the Halo aiming to prevent? Another Surtees type incident?

Yes

Because I doubt it would have helped in Bianchi or Massa's crashes. Maybe it would have protected the driver in a pile up like Grosjean going across Alonso's car at Spa.

There's also the law of unintended consequences to consider, at some point (and it's unlikely, but it will happen eventually) a 'Massa' type incident will occur again, except that this time the chunk of debris will deflect off of the underside of the halo, and into the drivers unprotected upper chest...

Halo designed to withstand a wheel impact at 150mph, wheels that are tethered to the car to prevent this happening!!

wheels that are tethered to the car to prevent this happening!!

When they crash, there's debris flying everywhere.

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The first one isn't F1, the second there are no wheels flying about.

The point I guess is that a wheel is big and heavy, and 150mph is fast. It's a worst case scenario rather than having been designed for that purpose specifically. That said, it's not going to be as effective against small bits of rubbish.

I'm not quite sure which F1 accidents they think would have been mitigated by it.

I think if i was in this situation something above my head would be nice.

[img] http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a69b35a7939083c174f173d5442f1084 [/img]

There is something above his head.

There is a roll hoop built into the chassis behind his head

There is something above his head.

There is a roll hoop built into the chassis behind his head

The fact that Indycar (which is possibly more safety conscious than F1 and has definitely seen worse crashes) hasn't bothered with this makes me think it's possibly step too far, unless the end goal is no open top racing.

Not just Surtees jnr, but ex F1 driver Justin Wilson who sadly lost his life as a result of debris falling on his head. The FIA doesn't just look at F1 accidents in isolation, they will review accident inquiries from all forms of motorsport.

Although I agree that the halo design is aesthetically very clumsy, I don't agree that aesthetics should overrule driver safety, moreover none of us have had to drive an F1 car at 200mph and therefore are not qualified to comment on the relative merits of the screen or halo from a driver's perspective. They had to go with the least worst option.

I also strongly suspect that the law of unintended consequences will apply here too, I daresay that teams in 2018 will integrate the halo into their aero package in a more refined fashion.

As someone more clever than me has pointed out, they couldn't NOT introduce it, because it's out there. If they didn't and a driver was killed or seriously injured, the FIA could be sued for squillions

More clever? Cleverer? Dunno

As someone more clever than me has pointed out, they couldn't NOT introduce it, because it's out there. If they didn't and a driver was killed or seriously injured, the FIA could be sued for squillions

Halos will sprout various aero-foils by 2018....you heard it here first 😉

Or the halo we be a foil itself. Halo flexibility complaints by rnd 3

As someone more clever than me has pointed out, they couldn't NOT introduce it, because it's out there. If they didn't and a driver was killed or seriously injured, the FIA could be sued for squillions

And they will be sued just as quickly if a driver dies because he couldn't be removed from the car quickly enough due to restricted access caused by the Halo.

And to take that statement to it's logical conclusion the FIA already have, in World Sportcars, a closed wheel, closed cockpit formula that could be just as fast as F1 but a lot safer than an F1 car. Just remove a seat and stick the driver in the middle.

The Halo will kill F1 ...... maybe it already has, I can't be arsed anymore!

Just remove a seat and stick the driver in the middle.

Why bother with a driver, to take the logical conclusion further

If people don't like the rules or want something safer then they can do something else more challenging,

In the early days, people opposed seatbelts on the grounds that it was safer to be thrown clear of the vehicle than to be trapped and burned alive. One of my dad's mates was a truck driver who served in WW2 and he refused to wear seatbelts on those grounds. In the 1960s, motorsport deaths were commonplace, but then people such as Jackie Stewart started demanding safety standards. The death of Jim Clark and the near burning alive of Nikki Lauda were big motivations to improve safety. JS and NL weren't cowards, they just didn't see why things should be unnecessarily dangerous. More recently, the deaths of Henri Toivonen and Aryton Senna served as wake-up calls to improve things.

Some risks are part of the sport. For example, racing in the wet is risky, but it is part of being a race driver and it makes for very exciting races, so it's a risk the sport needs to keep. Drivers being hit by debris does nothing for the sport, it's just an unnecessary danger. Massa was extremely lucky to have not been killed by debris and there was nothing he could have done to avoid that, it wasn't a matter of skill, just of bad luck. Yes, the Halo or a windshield don't look like what we are used to. So what? I'd rather look at ugly cars than have drivers killed for no reason.

Massa was extremely lucky to have not been killed by debris and there was nothing he could have done to avoid that

And the Halo is unlikely to help in that situation anyway. Nor Bianchi's. And it might impede a swift exit. Nor does it mean you are indestructible; deaths still occur in closed cockpit racing.

But it's coming.

I would much prefer the screen solution as it would protect the drive from small debris and it would hark back to the 50's when a few cars had them for aero reasons:

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Modern safety with a nod to the past in one? Worth the effort of working out the kinks! Hopefully (and I really mean I hope to God!!) the Halo is a stop-gap until a better solution can be found.

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Kubica to test the 2017 Renault car in Hungary...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubica-drive-renault-hungaroring-test-933962/

I hope Jolyon has something else lined up for next year.

In the early days, people opposed seatbelts on the grounds that it was safer to be thrown clear of the vehicle than to be trapped and burned alive.

I hope Jolyon has something else lined up for next year.

Or if the test goes well - he may need a summer job at his local 'Spoons! 😀

Yep if I was JP I'd be super gluing myself to that seat right now

Any prospect of alonso and kubica both ending up at Renault next year?

Its going to be a toss up but hulkenberg is doing a good job. Only Kimi's seat up at a top team.. I'm sure Sauber would welcome a world champion. Sainz is floating around but I think he will have Alonso's ride in the mclaren should he leave. JP off to USA

Kimi is staying. Vettel doesn't want a challenger stealing his thunder.

Well as F1 cars get uglier next year - Indycars get cooler! 2018 car revealed...

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/gallery-check-out-the-2018-indycar-design-in-the-flesh-934206/#image-the-2018-chevrolet-indycar-13996264

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Oooh! That is pretty easy on the eyes. I still can't believe this Halo carry on mind.. Absolute eyesore and having that thing right in the centre of your vision can't be nice

That Indy car looks awesome. F1 cars with Halo and all the aero crap will look a bit rubbish in comparison.

Also nickewen mentions I can't believe the Halo won't obscure vision, which is hardly ideal.

Indycar had to sort itself out, current cars are a bulbous mess. The new ones do look good though

That black pole sticking out the back of that Indycar can't be very aero 😉

Can't believe the fuss over the Halo, particularly in terms of the 'look'. The cars still won't be as ugly as when they had all the winglets 10 years or so ago. As long as the cars are fast, racing is close and drivers are safe, then that's the most important thing IMHO.