[Closed] F1 2017 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

[quote=scotroutes ]Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

no I had no opinion on it before i just though LH was a better driver [though i do actively dislike the tax avoiding foreign exile flag waver]

Wonder what made him do that?

New baby, reached the pinnacle, achnowledges he was lucky and unlikely to ever become WC again so best to go out on a high?

I always liked him more than LH as a human being

Me too. And this was a human being level of decision making.

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

I suspect Nico knows that he will never be in a position to win another WC, so you may as well quit while you're at the top?

Wonder who's phones are ringing off the hook?

Suspect Mercedes will want someone experienced to help with next years development race and can be very choosy considering they'll have a title winning car.

Wow again!
(Tin foil hat mode: Mercedes did deal for rosberg walks away with big pay off and Mercedes avoid arguing drivers next year?)

Edit:above suggestions more sensible than mine

Good on him.

Young guy with a young family and a bucket load of cash.

I'd love to see them with Verstappen but he could be such a liability and take out Hamilton every other race....

that seat is a major prize for someone.....who's Merc's reserve driver?

It's a bit like Jack Bobridge... retiring young to put his family first. Kudos. As for being a quitter, most people rarely grow up doing the thing that makes them their living, their fortune and their fame. He's been racing for most of his life so why not sign off at the pinnacle? Whatever happens the only way is down, even if he wins the next title and the one after that. People are already saying Alonso is dying a death by a thousand cuts with his years at McLaren and Ferrari and chances are, all people will remember is the struggle years not the triumphant ones.

V and H in the same team is not going to end at all well....

Wehrlein could be good to chance but I'm sure Ocon has a force majeure exit from Force India in his contract too. Both are worth a risk as Hamilton, all things equal, should be winning as usual.

Who's going to jump to MB before knowing if it's as good (compered to the others) before the first race?

Its got to be Wehrlein - he was the guy they were going to put in the car when Hamilton threatened to quit after Spain

The only available top name would be Button, who i'd love to see in the car but its highly unlikely

Alonso would be ace - but i bet Hamilton would have a veto on it!!

"Good on him.
Young guy with a young family and a bucket load of cash"

This. F1 is good, but so is being around a lot for your kids.

Didn't see that coming. So the guy who picks up the drivers' trophy tonight is no longer an F1 driver...

Im not surprised he has quit. He was never going to have that much good luck to win it again. He is like Button, hit lucky with the car for 1 year and so won the championship. If he stayed it would be back to normal number 2 driver for the team

Didn't see that coming. So the guy who picks up the drivers' trophy tonight is no longer an F1 driver...

That's an epic level flounce of magical proportions. I guess LH will be no1 driver for 17, who'll be his bitch, I mean team mate.

But Toto understood. He knew straight away that I was completely convinced and that reassured me.

Can you imagine the sigh of relief from Toto as he realised he didn't have to manage the pair of them next year??!

It's a huge shock, but Nico put everything into this season. Can't blame him one bit for putting family first.

I bet Fernando is on the phone as I type...

I wonder if Perez might get asked. I would view him as a really great but often under-rated driver. Never really been in a fast car but still always managed to bother the top positions regularly.

I reckon he would give LH a proper run for his money. Might be a little bit too feisty though, he doesn't really back down easily.

Can you imagine the sigh of relief from Toto as he realised he didn't have to manage the pair of them next year??!

TBH, there's no driver Lewis will play well with if they challenge his primacy. Wehrlein, for example, has won arguably the most competitive championship in the world and, assuming he can make the step up, he won't be phased by Lewis. If Magnussen was available I'd bet he wouldn't be inclined to take any shit from Lewis in the same team either.

I think I've said before about Lewis verbally abusing a driver he drove into in FRS in 2003 at Brands Hatch. Everyone was embarrassed, even his team, but it's his nature; Lewis first, everyone else second. It's taken him where he is but it's not for everyone.

[quote=on and on ]That's an epic level flounce of magical proportions. I guess LH will be no1 driver for 17, who'll be his bitch, I mean team mate.

Werlein would be a good choice, then they'd have a natural 1 2 pecking order as well. Button would be epic but I suppose he's contracted up to the nipples by McLaren.

Can't see Merc replacing Rosberg with Verstapen or an older driver. They have the fastest guy anyway who will win them the championship so my guess is they'll pick a younger development driver for an easier life.

Wehrlein isn't a pushover, sadly. He led the DTM for a lot of the season he won and withstood the pressure well. I was at the Nurburgring and despite being hard pressed by his rivals he was happy to come and chat. I'd imagine Ocon is also of a similar mental makeup; it's their lives not a job.

Big respect for Nico, there are very very few people in the world that can say they have achieved their childhood dream, made a boat load of cash doing it and realized that they have done what they set out to achieve and can move on.

He should consider himself one of the very privileged few - chapeau.

There seems to be a lot of people on here underestimating Rosberg. I think to win a championship against Hamilton is a massive achievement, I was thinking of the last time someone did something similar:
.
Last man to win a world championship after being team-mates to someone when they won a championship - Villeneuve, 1997 (team-mates with HIll who won in 1996)
Last man to win a world championship while still team-mates with someone who won a title - Prost 1989 (team-mates with Senna who won in 1988)
Last man to win his first championship while team-mates with a former champion - Senna 1988 while team-mates with Prost
Last (only other?) man to win his first title while still team-mates with someone who had won a championship while they were team-mates - Prost 1986 (team-mates with Lauda who won in 1985)
The only other person ever to win a championship while team-mates with a three-times World Champion - Prost 1986.
Last man to win a championship while team-mates with someone who had won consecutive championships - Senna 1988 (team-mate to Prost who had won in 1985 and 1986)
Rosberg is the only driver ever to win a championship against a team-mate who has won consecutive championships whilst they were team-mates.
.
Does all that read like it should?
.
So we have to go back 20 or 30 years to find a similar achievement. No I don't rate him as highly as Senna and Prost but that's still a hell of achievement.

If Magnussen was available I'd bet he wouldn't be inclined to take any shit from Lewis in the same team either.

I'm sorry but Magnussen? He has done nothing at all. Beaten totally by Palmer in qualifying.

I think it's funny that the most interesting thing about the 2016 season happens after the season has finished 🙂

I always wondered why nico never got his wonky ear fixed. It must be uncomfortable in the helmet.

I think to win a championship against Hamilton is a massive [s]achievement[/s] strokes of good fortune several times throughout the season

Didn't see that one coming. Fair enough, think its a mature decision to be honest.

Merc won't put another "senior" driver in the 2nd car. Wehrlein is the obvious choice

wtaf
makes my one hit wonder prediction true sooner than I'd imagined

There seems to be a lot of people on here underestimating Rosberg. I think to win a championship against Hamilton is a massive achievement, I was thinking of the last time someone did something similar:

Winning a two horse race when your opponents horse broke down repeatedly. [i]massive achievement[/i].

Has Button written all over it.

Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari won't let any signed race driver go even for millions as it's a massive show of a lack of confidence and that they don't believe they can compete.

I'd be shocked if Mercedes threw wehrlein in, much better in a lower team for a season as a season with Hamilton could destroy him mentally quite easily.

Almost certainly going to be wehrlein... He's already a Mercedes driver, he does testing, he's German and he's quick. It's what the next feeder programme is all about.

[quote=johndoh ]I think to win a championship against Hamilton is a [s]massive achievement [/s]strokes of good fortune several times throughout the season

And him acing the starts when Hami struggled?

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Massive respect for that decision which goes against the norm and what so many people would have expected.

Rosberg has given Mercedes the maximum possible time to plan for 2017. We may find out how fast Hamilton is depending on who gets the drive. It could go one of two very different ways, a clear number 2 or a World Championship contender and real pressure on Hamilton in 2017 or 2018.

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

Agreed, after this and the way he was after winning Abu Dhabi I have actually warmed to him a little. And now also relieved That it won't be changed by him returning to his weird combiation of awkwardness and smugness next year!

I think he deserved this WC a lot more than peole give him credit for. He did have some luck, but he also put in enough hard graft to be able to take advantage of it too!

My prediction is Alonso to Mercedes but the new car turns out to be a dog and Alonso battles heroically to 2nd in the championship. McHonda produce a stunning car and win the championship with Hamiltion, who threw a tantrum when MB hired Alonso and stormed back to McLaren in a huff.

How would Lewis break Pascal? Nico trained under Schu.

I see a one race seat for Pascal until Max is free.

Makes you wonder what pressures Damon Hill was under, young children, the thought of Senna in his mind etc.

Wow, no one saw that coming. NR was ok if a bit dull but this decision shows where his priorities lie.
For me I have never liked Hamilton. He is a good driver but lacks sportsmanship. I hope Mercedes choose a driver worthy of a great car. Toto loves his 1-2 victories so I think hey will pick an experienced driver. Maybe Button for a season or Alonso. Who knows?

might be a good time to get out, the new cars may end up being 5 sec a lap faster, been there done that this is getting more dangerous!

If he's taken a look at himself and his family and decided he doesn't want to put in again what it took this year, then deciding to go out as WC and go and do something else seems like a pretty good decision to me. Good for him.

I can't see Button in Merc #2 next year, sadly although I'd love it to happen.

He's clearly happy with his decision to retire, his performances and motivation have been tailing off since the Summer. Plus, he's under contract at McLaren until the end of 2018 (presumably in case Alonso walks). I'd dearly love to be proved wrong.

I do have doubts about Wehrlein's readiness to step up to the top team, he was ragged at times in the Manor and needs at least another year in a lower order car.

That leaves Ocon. He's under contract at Force India, but as an engine supplier to that team, Merc could strike a deal to recall him.

He'll look a bit stupid if they pick up on this hand the trophy to the guy who came second.

Total left field thought:

Susie Wolff to come out of retirement 💡

[quote=fifeandy ]Total left field thought:
Susie Wolff to come out of retirement

Difficult getting in the car!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/little-wolff-way-first-baby-9098092

Fair play to him (though I suspect there might have been a bit of "I'm world champion now....so Lewis is the number 2 in the team"......"Err....Not so fast Nic me old chum")
Also,when your boss says

This year, clearly, Malaysia cost Lewis the championship. It's clear

I wonder if Perez might get asked. ...I reckon he would give LH a proper run for his money.

He couldn't give Button a run at Mclaren, so maybe not.

It's Wehrlein. Utterly nailed on. No question.

Unless Hulkenberg changes his mmind.

There will be a lot drivers asking their lawyers to find those get out clauses in their contracts! [url= http://news.ladbrokes.com/formula-one/formula-one-alonso-31-for-mercedes-seat-after-shock-rosberg-retirement.html ] Alonso looks like the bookies favourite outside the those already contracted to merc[/url]

Pascal Wehrlein – 2/1
Fernando Alonso – 3/1
Valtteri Bottas – 4/1
Esteban Ocon – 7/1
Nico Rosberg – 10/1
Sebastian Vettel -14/1
Nico Hulkenberg – 16/1
Max Verstappen – 20/1
Carlos Sainz Jnr – 25/1
Jenson Button – 33/1
Daniel Ricciardo – 33/1
Paul Di Resta – 50/1

EDIT: Horse has bolted

I'm sorry but Magnussen? He has done nothing at all. Beaten totally by Palmer in qualifying.

I meant attitude rather than speed. Lewis won't mentally dominate a lot of the younger guys in F1; some he could but the majority of the young drivers won't be cowed even if they're beaten. BTW, Palmer has 1 point to Magnussen's 7 with the former having 5 retirements and the latter 4. In qualifying, Magnussen was ahead in 11 races and Palmer in 10. Nobody would say that Palmer has had a great year nor would they say Magnussen has either but it's hardly like Palmer smashed Magnussen in qualifying or races.

Also even Palmer seems to admit that without Magnussen signing for Haas, he'd be out of the race seat at Renault.

How long before Rubens Barrichello pops up 🙂

Just come back from Xmas shopping and genuinely gobsmacked by this news!!! 😯

Big Girls Blouse!

If accurately reported, not the most gracious comments from Lewis though they are probably valid.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rosberg-s-retirement-no-surprise-says-hamilton-856219/

Has Button written all over it.

Why on earth would Merc want to put Button in the car? He has never been good enough for a top drive as his career has shown. The only possible reason is if they want a 'safe pair of hands' to be the number 2 driver.

Don't be ridiculous, Button has clearly shown his worth, if not up to the level of the very best.

But he wants to stop F1 so he won't be signing up for Merc.

Hamilton is the match of anyone so Merc will just want to ensure that they have a team mate to push him but to ensure team harmony. A bit like Nico, come to think of it (but maybe without the history)

Rather than throwing names around, has anyone identified a reason why they wouldn't use Pascal Wehrlein?

Premise A: They have the guy who can win the DWC so they need someone who can help them win the Manufaacturers. Preferably without fighting too much with LH

Let's start discounting the drivers so we have a smaller pool of names to play with.

[b]NOT[/b]
Rosberg - Retired
Button - Retired
Barrichello - Retired
Alonso - See Premise A
Vettel - See Premise A

I would like it to be Max but that isn't going to happen either

Yeah as I said way back earlier today, I'd love it to be Verstappen too - I think he has the skill to challenge Hamilton much more than Rosberg ever did and to see two very determined racers who won't give an inch fighting toe to toe in the same car would be a delicious thought for next season.

But of course the risks far outweigh the potential rewards as neither one of them would rarely give an inch on the track and they would spend more time in the walls& gravel traps than racing 🙂

The problem is, will PW be good enough to secure the constructors? (which let's be honest is the one Merc are interested in). I'm not so sure with a resurgent Red Bull team with two exciting young drivers.

That's the dilemma they face.

If the car is as dominant as it was this year they can pick whoever they like and the constructors title is in the bag.

I'd like to see Carlos Sainz in there. Great driver, comes across as a really sound bloke, definitely deserves a shot at the big time which is unlikely to happen at Red Bull with Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen sitting in the big seats 🙂

😆

https://mobile.twitter.com/Max33Verstappen/status/804720896367849476

Buy out Bottas? Nasr and his money to Williams. Bernie gets his Brazilian.

(stolen from Twitter but a credible scenario I reckon)

Pasta Maldonado is free?

what a laugh they're having 😆

[img] [/img]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/804724300230049792

Actually, what engines are Red Bull running next year?

Aston Martin.

You do wonder if Lewis has put his foot down and asked for more assurances at the expense of Rosberg and hence orchestrating an ruse of Rosberg retiring ( didnt Rosberg sign a 2year deal a little while ago?)
Could he be back in 2018 after the cars have had the shakedown and everyone is more comfortable with the new rules.

How about Alonso to Merc and Button back at Mclaren? Maybe Massa having the shortest retirements ever! If Werhlein doesn't get it he should be asking questions.

@nemesis & @bruneep 😀 excellent and that's the legit feed !

You do wonder if Lewis has put his foot down and asked for more assurances

Only tinfoil hat people do. Sensible folk think it's purely down to Rosberg.

Going back a few pages:

I'm not totally convinced by McLaren being that much behind - they've been so crippled by the engine performance that they've been running lower downforce and on occasions it's been clear that the chassis is actually very good.

Not really on two counts. The rear suspension of the car looked to be a problem. The drivers frequently spoke of getting the tyres to work in the temperature range, and getting the mechanical grip from the rear to desired levels proved difficult. This resulted in much higher levels of down force being used than anticipated to get the rear to work.

Mclaren did not run a low down force set up.

This in turn required more than anticipated adjustments to the front to offset increased under steer. If the back of the car wasn't right, it would also show up at the front of the car. People think that the "pace of development" in view of the numerous front wing changes made from race to race shows how aggressive and progressive McLaren was...but sometimes the opposite is true.

Once again both drivers complained about under steer issues, and the numerous wings were trying to compensate for this.

While Honda's engine wasn't ripping up trees, they cannot solely be to blame for a slow car, as the chassis was also a problem, hence high down force and higher drag.

If you remember in 2014 they had the "butterfly" suspension blockers on the car, that suspension was going to be carried over to the 2015 car.

I suspect PP stopped that from happening, but the rest of the suspension was set, and putting a new suspension design on the car would result in a totally new car built from the ground up, which can't really be done during the season, hence it is critically important to have the chassis sorted right from the start as everything else, good or bad stems from it.

MClaren only resorted to a "conventional" rear suspension for 2016, but it may take a while for them to optimize it. Hopefully for 2017.

I'm glad Rosberg has retired. JB back to Mercedes would be good, or take a punt on someone from GP2/formula renault 3.5?

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

Very much so. Weird too, I have spent the last few years thinking he's a complete ****. Good on him.

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

Absolutely not, always thought he was a very solid guy doing his best, talented and professional. You could see the pressure taking it's toll in his driving sometimes especially last season.

Think more of him as a man. Less of him as a sportsman. Probably the best way round.

Think more of him as a man. Less of him as a sportsman. Probably the best way round

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

Not me. I think he's welched out on the real challenge - defending his championship. If he'd done that and [ever] beaten the competition in a straight fight I might have changed my mind.

His asking Lewis to move over in Abu Dhabi pissed me off. Barcelona showed he couldn't cope with pressure.

That said, as a parent of two young boys, if i made all the money i would ever need by the time i was 31, I'd probably quit.

Seeing as Hamilton's Captain slow tactics are still fresh in the mind of the management we could well see the direction of his infractions in the form of who takes the 2nd drive. Either reinforce Hamilton's number 1 status or make him equal status with another driver. I've no doubt the rumours of Hamilton's threat of leaving are true so how could they cover it in the future. Two of your most recent WDC retiring would be a PR disaster

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

These, basically:

Think more of him as a man. Less of him as a sportsman. Probably the best way round.

I think he's welched out on the real challenge - defending his championship.

Throws a huge spanner in the driver market though! Depending on how Merc play it we could end up with 2 top drivers in the team, if the field is more competitive then it'll create fireworks. If they go safe for a no.2 or rookie then it could create a Lewis superteam or relegate him to a lacklustre season depending on the car.

Still think it'll be a Merc/RedBull year though with Merc excelling on the power circuits and RedBull dominating the handling ones. But then it all depends upon Pirelli getting the tyres right for once, if they end up with tyres that can't be pushed consistently again then all these new rules and regs will be for nothing.