[Closed] F1 2017 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

I'm going for Alonso as a wildcard as Mclaren will nail it! 😉

Max for me.

Mr Newey will have found the magic bullet in the new regs and trounce everyone! 😀

And Nico will only finish in the WDC top three if Merc have a car that is a lot better than anyone elses.

[i]Really[/i] looking forward to seeing the new cars.

Redbull to come back strong, but Dan and max will have a massive falling out around Monaco and whichever one comes out on top of that will challenge Lewis for wdc.

I have watched every GP since late 1993; despite a lifelong motorsport fan I have really lost my mojo with it. The only times I watched this year were the first and the last, and I gave up half way through.

I actually find it reasonably interesting, but I can't get excited about a race for third, and I can't commit 2 hours 21x a year on the off chance a race for the win breaks-out.

I vote Mercedes are banned for ruining it.

ATMO the status quo will remain, there won't be any big gains on the front runners. Honda will draw a but closer, but will still be down on power, as will Red Bull.

My money is on Bernie finding his precious before the nasty bagginses.

Essentially new engines from everyone next year so the staus quo on that front could be altered somewhat.

And I want Liberty Media to announce a subscription streaming service so I can dump Sky! 😀

[quote=the-muffin-man ]Essentially new engines from everyone next year so the staus quo on that front could be altered somewhat.

They've pretty much dumped the rules preventing development as well haven't they? So the other suppliers can effectively copy all the good bits of the Merc. engine so should close the gap a lot - enough that it should be a lot more down to the chassis. Fingers crossed that there are multiple different cars fighting for the win every weekend.

They've pretty much dumped the rules preventing development as well haven't they?

Yep - stupid token system gone - free for all now. But only 4 engines per year, so updates can't come every race like the old days.

Much less reliance on a car which looks after its tyres well too, with the tyres being much more robust. Allegedly.

Hopefully next year's regs will spice things up a bit.

I think it will be a Redbull - merc showdown in 2017.
Merc with build an epic engine and RB will build an epic chassis and aero meaning they will both have tracking playing to their respective + - points.

I know that sounds obvious but I can't see any other challengers. Ferrari - meh. Williams/FI/ TR/McHonda etc will all be midfield and squabble for 5,6,7,8,9,10 places though the year.

I guess pretty much the same as late 2016 🙂

Next year has the potential to be very exciting - new regs, new tyres, closer racing, and some very good and exciting drivers who can overtake. If Redbull and Ferrari have caught Mercedes, then it'll be between Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo and Vettel. If not, it'll be Hamilton and Rosberg again, and I don't think Rosberg will win another championship - he lacks that killer instinct IMO.

[quote=justinbieber ]new tyres

Hopefully not just that they're new, but that they won't have the same "designed in" thermal degradation which stops the drivers from pushing. Not that I'm sure I believe everything they say about it being totally deliberate how the current tyres behave.

My money is on Bernie finding his precious before the nasty bagginses.

😆

Proper racing tyres next year for the first time since we had V6 turbos before?
Should suit Lewis, Max and a couple of the noobs closer to the back I imagine. And probably the Red Bull and McLaren chassis.
Can't wait.

Agreed, I think Red Bull are going to smash it next year. As much as I'd like it to be Daniel Ricciardo my money would be on Max Verstappen coming out on top

Actually, what engines are Red Bull running next year?

Renault? masquerading as something else.

Renault again (badged as Tag Heuer).

Not bad. I reckon the extra development will make it a good engine for next year. If they let Red Bull have the updates!! 🙂

Here's my suggestion to liven up the races:

Each driver is given a prawn phall and two pints of Guinness before getting in the car and has to complete a full race distance before getting to use the kharzy. Soiled shreddies at the end of the race = disqualification. Two emergency changes of underpants may be permitted to mitigate cloth contamination, which will happen in the pits. The bloke who holds the stop sign in the pits will have to account for keks swappage and wiping time before releasing the driver out on the track again.

Oh and car to pit communications would be fed through loudspeakers in realtime, in order to add some drama to the proceedings.

Hopefully McLaren in the top three. Otherwise I can see Alonso quiting before mid season

Not bad. I reckon the extra development will make it a good engine for next year. If they let Red Bull have the updates!!

Maybe Hora was right in the 2016 thread, maybe most people commenting don't have a clue.

Interesting snippet about redbull is that their announcement about extending tag heuer branding of the engines didn't actually mention Renault. Makes you think...

Hopefully McLaren in the top three. Otherwise I can see Alonso quiting before mid season

Haven't we heard that before, or is this thread a white hole?

the-muffin-man - Member
Renault again (badged as Tag Heuer).

they will be one to watch them
IGMC

My money's on Ricciardo. He's fast, determined, and more mature than Max. Hamilton's fast when his mind is in the game, but he seems to be a bit fragile. I think Alonso and Ricciardo are mentally much tougher than Hamilton. The Renault engine should be very close to the Merc and Red Bull will most likely have the best chassis. Ferrari will start with the 3rd best car, but I doubt Vettel will stay motivated if the car isn't a title contender. The McHonda will be much improved, still not up there with the Red Bull and Merc, but I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso's consistency and determination had him finishing ahead of the Ferraris.

[quote=moe_szyslak ]I have watched every GP since late 1993; despite a lifelong motorsport fan I have really lost my mojo with it. The only times I watched this year were the first and the last, and I gave up half way through.
I actually find it reasonably interesting, but I can't get excited about a race for third, and I can't commit 2 hours 21x a year on the off chance a race for the win breaks-out.
I vote Mercedes are banned for ruining it.

Say what you like but the last three seasons have been a lot more watchable than 2000, '01, '02 and '04 where Schumacher won virtually every race and the championship.

[i]Renault again (badged as Tag Heuer). [/i]

Should run like clockwork...

[quote=the-muffin-man ]Renault again (badged as Tag Heuer).
Is that a wind-up?

retro83 - Member
Say what you like but the last three seasons have been a lot more watchable than 2000, '01, '02 and '04 where Schumacher won virtually every race and the championship.

but at least back then you could appreciate you were watching something special, and failing that just enjoy the noise. Last 3 years have just seemed very 'meh'. Watched 1.5 races this year, a record low for myself. Even the 2016 thread was 33 pages shorter than the 2015 one

Anyway, high hopes for wide cars and new engines. Wish they'd relax the 4 engine rule though, let economies of scale kick in at the manufacturers 😉

Merc to steal a march with a mighty engine upgrade, RB aero to pull them closer and then mid season when they're getting a handle on maximising the cars somebody will have a huge off at great speed (remember 5 secs a lap quicker) forcing a re think on the going a lot faster business.

Interesting snippet about redbull is that their announcement about extending tag heuer branding of the engines didn't actually mention Renault. Makes you think...

I hadn't noticed that - good spot!

And now with Mobil confirmed as Red Bull supplier perhaps a last minute switch to Honda power to try and oust McLaren as the factory team? If the Renault F1 team have designs on the title themselves, in the long-term they won't like playing second-fiddle to Red Bull.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-confirms-switch-to-exxonmobil-for-2017-855835/

Are the cars still hybrids ?

Yep 🙂

Maybe Hora was right in the 2016 thread, maybe most people commenting don't have a clue.

Not sure what you are trying to get at here. Are you saying that the Renault engine won't be any good or that there is no way to stop them getting the updates?

Spent today testing the oil filters for one of the big teams.

Quite surprised how much better something as simple as an oil filter could be relative to the standard part you'd maybe fit to a road car (and im not talking skodas and fiestas, we do a lot of work with sports/super car components).

So if the engines are still hybrid by nature, are they starting to look at the power outputs of them ?

I know nothing about what they're doing...

Ta.

So if the engines are still hybrid by nature, are they starting to look at the power outputs of them ?

No, increasing the electric and maybe reducing the petrol..

We'll never bring back the heady days of v10's and such, but no reason not to push the boundaries of hybrid IMO.

Not bad. I reckon the extra development will make it a good engine for next year. If they let Red Bull have the updates!!

Maybe Hora was right in the 2016 thread, maybe most people commenting don't have a clue.

I was alluding to the fact you think the "extra engine development well make it a good engine for next year". The engines will be totally new and different. They're all essentially starting from scratch.

[quote=bikebouy ]No, increasing the electric and maybe reducing the petrol..

To increase the electrical they'd have to harvest more from somewhere - that already seems to be one of the really hot areas in terms of PU performance. So yes I expect there will be more contribution from the electric side, but don't expect any huge leaps.

I was alluding to the fact you think the "extra engine development well make it a good engine for next year". The engines will be totally new and different. They're all essentially starting from scratch.

My understanding was that it was the aero and tyres that had changed, not the engines

And now with Mobil confirmed as Red Bull supplier perhaps a last minute switch to Honda power to try and oust McLaren as the factory team? If the Renault F1 team have designs on the title themselves, in the long-term they won't like playing second-fiddle to Red Bull.

McLaren have signed up with Castrol for 2017 and Honda work closely with them in WSB, moto gp and other formulas.

Well, I might then watch a few races.

I like the idea of opening up competition rather than trying to create a one design box on rubber.

Are the cars still hybrids ?

As far as I know, the engine rules haven't changed in any major way, except that the token system is gone. The power output is fundamentally constrained by the size of the fuel tank and the maximum fuel flow. The only way around that is to make the internal combustion engine more efficient or to improve the efficiency of the hybrid side. Mercedes started out a long way ahead of everyone else in 2014 and the other teams couldn't catch them because of the token system. Renault and Honda both made some fundamental mistakes that they understood, but couldn't fix because they basically needed to redesign the entire engine.

Mercedes will gain the least from the removal of the token system, and their reliability problems last year suggest they might have started pushing things to the absolute limit to stay ahead of the Ferrari engine. Renault and Honda should improve massively in performance next year because they can now scrap their old engines and start from scratch. However, they may have reliability problems because of that. Red Bull have the best aerodynamic team, but Mercedes seem to be very good too. Ferrari and McLaren seem to be behind on aero, and both seem to be struggling on the management side of things. Renault are still rebuilding their team after years of neglect and unlikely to be able to beat Red Bull with the same engine. Red Bull and Merc are the obvious favorites. Question is whether their drivers will be able to avoid taking each other out. Alonso and Vettel might have an advantage just from getting on better with their teammates.

Is "wider cars" a good thing? Seems to me that overtaking's hard enough already so we'll be even more reduced to blatting past people on the straights

(I am one of those people who knows sweet FA about sweet F1)

You're not wrong, wider cars obviously make the track narrower. The other new issue is that higher cornering speeds mean even shorter braking distances, so out-braking becomes slightly harder too

Wont they have higher grip next year ? (wider tyres, better aero) that will make overtaking much harder.

If they wanted more overtaking they would have to increase braking distances, lower grip and have narrow cars.

[quote=bikebouy ]No, increasing the electric and maybe reducing the petrol..
We'll never bring back the heady days of v10's and such, but no reason not to push the boundaries of hybrid IMO.

The problem is it's really expensive to develop. Also extracting power from the exhaust spoils the sound.

[quote=Trimix ]Wont they have higher grip next year ? (wider tyres, better aero) that will make overtaking much harder.
If they wanted more overtaking they would have to increase braking distances, lower grip and have narrow cars.

The idea is that the cars will be able to follow closer without cooking their tyres. Wider tyres = more mechanical grip, more draft effect for following car. More ground effect = less reliance on wings = less affected by turbulent air from car in front. It's also physically harder on the drivers as they will corner (much!) faster. Will it actually work though? Doubt it. They need to much more drastically change the ratio of mech to aero grip I think.

I personally don't think the width of the cars is as much of a problem as the length. Too often we get punctures and lost front wings from people turning across each other and that's caused by the length/overhangs more than the width (except in Monaco maybe).

The problem is it's really expensive to develop. Also extracting power from the exhaust spoils the sound.

[quote=captainsasquatch ]Formula E is built around the same vehicle and ther'e plenty of overtaking, same make racing has overtaking.
I'm sure Max isn't worried about next year.

Well he big difference between E and F1 is the level of downforce. The wings do F all in FormulaE. I saw a race the other week where somebody lost their rear wing and somebody lost their front wing and were both still putting in decent laps until they were black flagged.

Well he big difference between E and F1 is the level of downforce. The wings do F all in FormulaE. I saw a race the other week where somebody lost their rear wing and somebody lost their front wing and were both still putting in decent laps until they were black flagged.

[quote=captainsasquatch ]You'll have to explain that one to me. Similar cars on the same track are differentiated by the size of the driver's balls. Differnt cars on different tracks are going to be different.
I think.

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but all I was getting at is that it's not just the fact the E teams are much closer in terms of performance, but also the fact they can run nose to tail with no performance loss (due to having much less reliance on aero).

Lewis makes the same point here

In terms of drivers not keen on more downforce, Lewis Hamilton perhaps put it most starkly: "I think we need more mechanical grip and less aero wake coming off the back of the cars so we can get close and overtake. Give us five seconds' worth of lap time from aero and nothing will change - we'll just be driving faster."

Surely it's the drivers who determine the ovetaking and not the car.

F1 cars get most of their grip from aerodynamics. Once you get close to the car in front, you get into turbulent air and lose grip in corners. This kills the tyres. If you can't stay close through a corner, it's difficult to pass on the next straight. A lot of the friction between teammates has been because the driver behind has newer tyres and is faster, but cannot find a way past his teammate in an identical car, leading to the teams trying to impose team orders, only to have drivers ignore the instructions.

The messing around with tyre rules the last few years has been to try and create a situation where different cars will be on different compound tyres and/or different stages of wear at different points in the race in order to increase the overtaking opportunities.

Spoilers! Ah, _now_ I get it. Very clever.

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but all I was getting at is that it's not just the fact the E teams are much closer in terms of performance, but also the fact they can run nose to tail with no performance loss (due to having much less reliance on aero).

[quote=holst ]Ferrari and McLaren seem to be behind on aero

I'm not totally convinced by McLaren being that much behind - they've been so crippled by the engine performance that they've been running lower downforce and on occasions it's been clear that the chassis is actually very good. Of course it is all change for next year, so it's down to what the teams are capable of rather than what they've done in the past (though it seems the Honda engine changes will also mean McLaren have to drop the size zero concept which will cost them a bit).

I like McLaren and I hope Peter Prodromou and his team will be able to produce a strong car aerodynamically and Honda a engine to match. After all he learnt a lot from Newey.

The only issue might be RedBull as Newey is the master generally when there is a rule change and designers are able to think outside the box.

they've been so crippled by the engine performance that they've been running lower downforce and on occasions it's been clear that the chassis is actually very good

Fair point. The McHonda seems to be a good car with a poor engine. I would love to see them do well, but I still don't think they are quite at the aero level of Red Bull and Merc. I would love to see Alonso battling for the championship with Ricciardo, Max, and Hamilton though.

Did anyone else notice when Button was hugging everyone in the garage and I mean everyone, he acknowledged everyone except one person, his new team manager. He didn't even look at him. Replay it if you can. I wonder what happened there? Wasn't given an option?

Maybe not quite at the level of RB - I don't think they're so far off Merc., and in any case given an equal engine they're possibly close enough to give a driver like Alonso a sniff, assuming he hasn't lost it. Wouldn't it be wonderful if FA, DR, MV and LH (and maybe even SV) all had a chance at winning races?

I can't quite remember when I changed from disliking Alonso to being quite a fan, but I think his attitude has changed a lot, which makes him rather more likeable.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846 ]WTF![/url]

Well Rosberg won't win it since he has just retired.
Not April 1st is it?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846 ]BBC[/url]

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846 ]Rosberg Retires! [/url]

Edit... too slow.

^

Yup!

[url= http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846 ]Bye bye Britney! [/url]

A

So no punishment for Hamilton then?

Vettel in the car? Verstappen?

“Since 25 years in racing, it has been my dream, my ‘one thing’ to become Formula One World Champion. Through the hard work, the pain, the sacrifices, this has been my target. And now I’ve made it. I have climbed my mountain, I am on the peak, so this feels right. My strongest emotion right now is deep gratitude to everybody who supported me to make that dream happen.

“This season, I tell you, it was so damn tough. I pushed like crazy in every area after the disappointments of the last two years; they fuelled my motivation to levels I had never experienced before. And of course that had an impact on the ones I love, too – it was a whole family effort of sacrifice, putting everything behind our target. I cannot find enough words to thank my wife Vivian; she has been incredible. She understood that this year was the big one, our opportunity to do it, and created the space for me to get full recovery between every race, looking after our daughter each night, taking over when things got tough and putting our championship first.

“When I won the race in Suzuka, from the moment when the destiny of the title was in my own hands, the big pressure started and I began to think about ending my racing career if I became world champion. On Sunday morning in Abu Dhabi, I knew that it could be my last race and that feeling cleared my head before the start. I wanted to enjoy every part of the experience, knowing it might be the last time … and then the lights went out and I had the most intense 55 laps of my life. I took my decision on Monday evening. After reflecting for a day, the first people I told were Vivian and Georg [Nolte, from Nico’s management team], followed by Toto [Wolff].

“The only thing that makes this decision in any way difficult for me is because I am putting my racing family into a tough situation. But Toto understood. He knew straight away that I was completely convinced and that reassured me. My proudest achievement in racing will always be to have won the world championship with this incredible team of people, the Silver Arrows.

“Now, I’m just here to enjoy the moment. There is time tosavour the next weeks, to reflect on the season and to enjoy every experience that comes my way. After that, I will turn the next corner in my life and see what it has in store for me

WTF!

Left his phone unlocked while he went to the bog and Lewis picked it up.

Wow, didn't see that coming!
Who'll get the seat then, Wehrlein?

WOW

Alonso now trying desperately to get out of McLaren and into a Mercedes next year!!!

Button's got a place to go race now 🙂

Wonder what made him do that?

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

Has anyone else just experienced a complete change of mind about the character of Nico Rosberg?

You kind of have to respect that level of left field thinking taking your professional by total surprise.