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Hi,
Am thinking about doing a cycling tour in Europe next year.
Would probably use up most of my 90 days in Central Europe before heading off down the Adriatic coast.
It would be nice to complete my trip somewhere in Greece, but would likely need to extend my time in the Schengen area beyond the 90 days to do this.
Anyone had similar experiences of doing something similar, as long stay visas look hard to get hold of for someone not planning to live there?
if you run out of days in greece cross over to turkey and ride there instead.
Croatia being outside Schengen might be useful to you?
But it's still in the EU so the 90 day limit in any 180 still needs to be honoured. Little day trips in and out don't refresh the limit either so I'd investigate getting a visa.
As I understand it the 90 day limit is pretty unenforceable until some computer system comes in. Basically no border guard is hoping to try to decipher all your entry exit stamps. There's an indepth discussion on the cycling uk forum. Said computer system seems to be getting delayed ad infinitum. But, yeah dont trust me on this.
The problems don't arise when you travel within the Schengen area, but when you finally depart for home. If you're found to have been within the area too long, regardless of which country you depart from, you can be penalized. How likely you are to be found out is a matter of luck, I suppose...
Bumped into a lad in Croatia 3 weeks ago who was cycling from Oxford to Turkey. He was desperate to see Greece but was having to skip it and go straight to Turkey because of the 90 days thing. Que 3 blokes on bikes in the middle of nowhere having a good old moan about the "benefits" of brexit.....
Edit, we were actually just outside Mostar in Bosnia and I said he'd left shengen to go back in but he then said about the 180 days thing so still didn't matter.
If you’re found to have been within the area too long, regardless of which country you depart from, you can be penalized.
As a matter of interest, what is the penalty?
Basically no border guard is hoping to try to decipher all your entry exit stamps
Because if a border guard was interested enough he would ask you to prove your date of entry to the eu from your passport and travel documents and at present in Schengen you won’t have a myriad of stamps to obfuscate things
As a matter of interest, what is the penalty?
Depends which member state catches you.
As a matter of interest, what is the penalty?
I don't know if this is true, but what I've read is that you will/may be denied entry in future. Seems extreme, but I'm not chanceing it, and keeping track of my days with the "Shengen Days" app.
I don’t know if this is true, but what I’ve read is that you will/may be denied entry in future. Seems extreme,
UK visa overstay penalties can include a ban on future visits so it’s not that extreme,
But it’s still in the EU so the 90 day limit in any 180 still needs to be honoured. Little day trips in and out don’t refresh the limit either so I’d investigate getting a visa.
I don't think that's correct:
From https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/croatia/entry-requirements
Visits to other EU or Schengen countries do not count towards your 90-day visa-free limit in Croatia. Visits to Croatia do not count towards your 90-day visa-free limit in the Schengen area.
Cheers for the comments guys, seems pretty much as I thought it would be.
Will save the hassle and finish in Corfu I think
Shame as it would have been nice to ride through Greece
Ad others have said and I'm sure you realise. Your 90 day clock will stop when you leave Slovenia and won't restart till you enter greece (from albania?). Would that give you enough time?
Ad others have said and I’m sure you realise. Your 90 day clock will stop when you leave Slovenia and won’t restart till you enter greece (from albania?). Would that give you enough time?
croatia's still in the EU - doesn't that count towards the 90 days too?
It is, but it's not in the Schengen area.
The time between leaving Slovenia and entering Greece would likely be less than 90 days, so couldn’t reset it for a fresh 90 days allowance.
I *think* you can apply to each individual country for a visa. This would 'overrule' the 90 days rule.
I *think* there three types of visa:
A. Transit;
(B has been replaced);
C. Short stay (90/180);
D. Long stay. These are "national" visas. They allow the holder to remain within the issuing country for the entire duration of the visa, but the 90/180 rule still applies for visiting other Schengen states. Type D is *usually* issued for valid work / study reasons, or to those seeking citizenship in the issuing country.
The link below *suggests* that type D can also be issued for longer tourism or private visits. But that info differs from other sources that I checked, where "tourism" is not mentioned for type D.
https://www.axa-schengen.com/en/apply-schengen-visa/schengen-visa-types
As a general principle: It is possible under EU law to extend a Schengen visas, but usually ONLY under very strict circumstances. Simply wanting to ride your bike for longer doesn't qualify. And not even a long-term type D "residency" visa from one Schengen state will give you more than the 90/180 access to the others. AFAIK. Sorry.
[edit]
Simply wanting to ride your bike for longer doesn’t qualify
...That's as far as I'm aware. But I'm not a via expert.
The link I posted above seems to be one of the many agencies (chancers?) that assist with EU visas. No idea whether their claim that "visas can be extended for tourism purposes" is overly optimistic, but I didn't find similarly breezy claims elsewhere; Quite the opposite.
The following European Commission page states that: "There are national derogations from the visa requirements for certain travellers", but it links to an Excel spreadsheet that's quite impenetrable.
Please post back if you find reliable info.
[/edit]
Daft off-topic question but why is it called the Schengen area?
I'm clearly an idiot but read the thread and stupidly thought someone was off to China and that was part of an area about to go into lockdown!
(Aware this also shows how ignorant I am!)
Shengen is the place in Luxembourg where the relevant treaties were signed.
Yep, it’s total arse, even if you have a residency/visa the 90/180 rule applies to other Schengen countries :-(.
I don’t think there is the concept of a visa for touring cyclists 🙂
The overstay fine can be €501-10k and up to 5 years no rentry, I’ve heard of a few fines but it’s very hit and miss at the moment and an obvious traveller with proof of funds is different to illegally working here.
This is only likely if you get stopped by the police thou,just leaving usually no-ones interested,it’s when you show up on the radar for some reason.
I suppose the other fun thing would be if you come back after overstaying on another year and they don’t let you in.
Something else to consider, funds, the 90/180 is reliant on you convincing a border guard you have enough money for your trip. You can be denied entry on day one If they aren't convinced you have enough money.
Whether a guard will try? I do remember being asked when I went to NZ a few years back, so don't assume you won't be asked.
if you're going earlier next year (before november, when the electronic thingy kicks in), given how lax the border controls are, could you not just stamp your own exit and re-entry into your passport?
last time (a week ago) I entered shengen zone the french officials stamped me in with an exit stamp, which the german exit staff were a bit sneary about, but couldn't care less.
I had been planning an extended med sailing trip for my retirement, which brexit has properly screwed up. 😣
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<div><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;">I</span><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;"> had been planning an extended med sailing trip for my retirement, which brexit has properly screwed up. 😣</span></div>
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Whilst it makes the planning much harder it doesn't completely stop it. Lots of people juggling time between turkey/montenegro/croatia etc.
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When you read that article bear in mind that it's not just a Schengen limit -it's an EU limit. And that article mixes EU and Schengen up quite a lot. I live in a Schengen country, and have permanent residence, but I'm still only allowed to stay in the EU for 90 in 180, and despite everyone here saying they don't check, sorry, sometimes they do.
When I was leaving fuerteventura I had the official looking all through my passport then asking when I arrived.
Turns out the officer stamping the passports on arrival the week before
was stamping every one out!
Could of got messy
So @5lab, how does that work? for instance I will be flying into Brussels in a couple of weeks time then have to drive to France in Crepsin for meeting. The last time I went there was no frontier, or at least didn't notice it. So from what you are saying I must pull over to get my passport stamped at the French/Belgium boarder?
Guy on one of the FB pages I'm on has come unstuck. He didn't fill in the right to reside paperwork when brexit kicked in. So when leaving the country this summer to go see family he was refused re-entry to Sweden, because he told them that he lived and worked here, and had a house, so would be overstaying his 90 days...
Wife and kids (all swedish passport holders) had to drive home while he kicked his heels until he could get a flight back to the UK.
Was talking about all sorts of dodgy stuff, getting somewhere in Europe and crossing land borders etc etc
No idea what happened as he (eventually) deleted all his posts and did an online disappearing act.
My plan was to slowly wend our way down through the French canals , then into the med.
France do an extended 1 yr tourist visa, so we might go for that, then get 90 days in the rest of the EU on the end.
Well asbrooks that depends on where you live, how long you plan to visit and how many such visits you're planning
Not sure if I've thought it through correctly, but could you do a 1 day visit 91 days before you plan to go on the big trip, thus meaning that the 180 days resets and you get another 90 (so 178 days in total, allowing an extra day for errors...)?
@asbrooks - no - I flew into france, got incorrectly stamped with the "out" stamp, then flew to germany (no checks) and then out of germany where the border folks noticed the mistake.
Is two passports a reasonably sensible way around this? You can hold two for "visa reasons" which this kinda is.. an extra £100 but not the end of the world. Won't work after the electronic checks come in, maybe..
would be interested to hear if that works.
like most of the post-brexit there isnt much clarity on the details. If that works it would be great but not sure how the Schengen/EU area would manage that. There being no way to know if you remain in France or have free land based movement throughout the EU.
Do you know if that year visa is an option for UK citizens, if so ill be applying for it 🙂
Well it's illegal. No confusion there. It's per person, 90 in 180.
Spending your 90 days within a 180-day period— The 90 days you are allowed to spend in the Schengen zone are eligible for a 180-day period. This period is commonly referred to as a “rolling timeframe” because it’s constantly moving— each day you spend in Schengen advances your 180-day period. This period is counted backwards from your most recent entry or exit dates. So, let’s say you enter the Schengen area on July 1, 2022; you count backwards for 180 days from this date and calculate how many days you have spent in the Schengen area during these 180 days. If you’ve already spent 60 days, then you have another 30 days left.
Interestingly if you are an eu citizen and want to do a nice U.K. cycling holiday you can pootle around for 6 months go back home and come back for another 🙂
Afaik, France are one of the few countries who do offer the extended tourist visa. You have to prove that you have income to be self sufficient, plus have health insurance. It’s all on Google.
From what I have read, the time in France on this visa then doesn’t count towards your Schengen clock.