[Closed] Executive stress...

The only thing to worry about is your bank balance. The rest doesn't matter.

Real stress would be a doctor or nurse

They probably have a toolbox of coping mechanisms to use from training, therapy, coaching etc.

Or they could just be sociopaths and not care as long as they get paid

In my limited experience, there's very few of them who actually have that level of responsibility or power, to make decisions in isolation without the co-operation of others, or shareholders etc, that could impact a huge amount of people directly.

I'd say a single parent with 3 kids has far more weight on their shoulders.

The secret to management is delegation.

Sounds like you're soaking up some sleepless nights for someone more senior already, excellent work!

I used to think I got stressed at work, became ill about it.

Turns out it wasn't work, my issues were elsewhere but I was focusing on work to avoid them.

MrsSteve makes decisions at work that can lead to kids dying. That's work related stress.

In my limited experience, there’s very few of them who actually have that level of responsibility or power, to make decisions in isolation without the co-operation of others, or shareholders etc, that could impact a huge amount of people directly.

I did wonder this.  E.G. If your Gates, Branson, Bezos or similar in many respects you're paying people below you to keep your bank balance rolling and company in line, if you're me you're reporting up to that middle tier, but the are reliant on idiots like me.  Its that middle senior tier I'm talking about, being hit from the stick from above whilst the people below are knocking off early to the pub on a Friday.

I guess that a lot of people at that level are optimists so don't spend a lot of time worrying that it will all go tits up. Pessimists probably wouldn't get promoted that high.

Pessimists probably wouldn’t get promoted that high.

I'm doomed...  😀

(Edit: Actually you make a good point for me personally.   I've always been and considered myself as the proverbial "reliable Lieutenant"; the Captain Miller, or a Nick Hewer perhaps of this world, but never a proper senior leader.   And I think for me personally thats why. )

Anyway, lets not divert this is not about me.

You're right that being in the middle is crap. You need to be at least two rungs up so that you have someone "middle" below you.

The only thing to worry about is your bank balance. The rest doesn’t matter.

I'm actually worried for the 7 families who rely on me doing a good job to keep money and projects incoming so they have a job. That's what ultimately keeps me up at night, currently more than usual.

I agree on the scale of things there's far more stressful jobs though.

You stress so that they don't have to.

If they trust the people underneath them then they have less worry. They don't 'care' as much about the finer details about how you will go about hitting your sales target, they want to make sure their direct reports have met their targets as that is what they will be measured on.

They don't care about the finer detail in the lower levels, as long as their targets are being met. They don't have any more stresses (compared to you, but they will have their own stresses) as their worries are the same but at a different level in the grand scheme of the company.

I'm assuming this is how it works for them...those higher up managers that did care for everything didn't last very long as they really did melt their heads with stress and worry.

Real stress would be a doctor or nurse

I’d say a single parent with 3 kids has far more weight on their shoulders.

MrsSteve makes decisions at work that can lead to kids dying. That’s work related stress.

Purity spiral?

What about the executive who has to employ MrsSteve and balance her wages against treatment costs and make a judgement whether 2x MrsSteves is a better investment for next year than, say, a lorryload of PPE and ventilators (I'm assuming MrsSteve is a Dr).

Everyone has stress in one form or the other, we all deal with it different ways some people ride bikes apparently. We can look at different jobs and think ooooh that’s stressful but if it’s your normal routine you’ll find a way to manage most of the time.

A wise old boy once said we are only (insert job, in this case) building a few houses (but could be selling widgets) not saving lives.

Makes you realise that nothing is that important to get too stressed about.

I am in a senior manager type role and used to get really stressed about work, sleepless nights etc. Then, about 6 years ago i was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Still here and cancer free for now, and I have never worried about work in any real way since my diagnosis, as it made me re-evaluate my priorities and what really matters in life. I have probably been more successful at work since my surgery as a result. I really rate the Headspace App which I use most days for 10 mins as a diversion.

Stress and it's consequences aren't reserved for people dealng with life and death only

I think everyone has a stress capacity. It gets filled with different things depending on your responsibilities.

Check out Michael Marmot's 'Civil Service 2' study, it is dynamite and check Richard Wilkinson on the disbenefits of inequality.

I completely agree with the last three posts.

There’s a stress capacity for everyone - if the worst thing that has ever happened to you is a broken rear derailleur then, at the time, that elicits your biggest stress response to date. It gets put into perspective when you experience a significant illness or death of someone close.

I am a CEO of a business. Many, many times smaller than the Cooks and Bezoa of the world. It can be stressful for particular reasons - meeting the expectations of shareholders, clients and staff but I don’t think I suffer more than a junior employee who has just joined and is sweating over a product launch or sales target. Life experience teaches me to put things into perspective and most of the time it works - but it doesn’t always and I suffered lots of anxiety 15 months ago, has periods of not sleeping for over 48hrs and ended up on mirtazapine (which worked wonders). I changed my role and sorted myself out.

I think stress response is down to the individual, not the job they do

I get shouted at by No. 10 and HM Treasury occasionally. I'll stick my neck out and say that's legitimately stressful.

I’d say a single parent with 3 kids has far more weight on their shoulders.

Yep, in my experience that really is the truth.

When I was on the corporate ladder I'd very occasionally meet some higher ups and mostly they just seemed slightly smug and very Stoic, they seem to find it easy to accept terrible things had gone wrong without missing a step, when most people would be sat in a pool of their own tears and urine because they'd lost half a million quid, praying for a miracle or obsessing about the whys or wheres, even doing that childish thing when you pray for a time machine to change the past. They'd accept it almost immediately and be busy working a solution or just thinking about how to make another million, half to cover the loss and half to be back ahead of the game.

I think it's a combination of things, partly because most have come up the ranks, made the same mistakes and knew it was just a bump in the road really.
Partly because deep down, they knew they were going to be just fine - everyone else might suffer, but they wouldn't even if it all went wrong and they lost their job, there would be offers coming in within days.

The main thing though is isolation, corporate entities are very compartmentalised so they can act remorselessly.

Take banks for example (only because I used to work in a Bank)

Customers, only ever speak to, or see Clerks, or if you're a Business, Account Managers.

Account Managers only really speak to their Centre Managers.

Centre Managers only speak to Area Managers.

Area Managers only speak Departmental Heads.

Departmental Heads only speak to 'The Board'

And 'The Board' acts on behalf of Share Holders.

Share Holders only care about money, because it's not their business, they just bought some shares, they want dividends and increasing share value, that's it. There's thousands sometimes even million of them so very few, if any make any personal connection with anyone who actually works there. Share Holders almost never vote on job losses, or the various ways Banks will screw their customers over when push comes to shove or 'just because'.

The Board (who are mostly 1 day a month types who get £100k a year to throw on the pile because they're a Lord or former MP with a bit of sway in Westminster) just care about keep the shareholders happy because if they don't they'll sell their shares pushing down the value causing more to sell etc. When it comes time to screw over Staff or Customers they can tell themselves they have no choice because if they don't the Share Holders will either leave or remove them for someone who will.

The Departmental Heads say they have no choice because if they don't the board will remove the for someone who will.

The Area Mangers... you get the picture.

People say that Corporate Entities are a sort of psychopathic machine. The people with the most power (Share Holders) have little or no empathy for it's staff or customers because they're so dissociated from them, and "shit rolls down hill".

There's lots of stress in the corporate world, it's usually the puzzle you have to complete before you're ready for the next rung up the ladder to start all over again.

Do I count myself in that bracket? I haven't really thought about it, but I guess, by definition I am. Head of Sales & Marketing for a division of a business that should do ~€1.1Bn this year. The delivery of that budget is on my head ultimately. It's fairly small fry to the rest of the business, but we are a lot more specialist in what we do & it's a big growth area of the business, so will always be under the spotlight. My boss is in another country & is responsible for about £4Bn euro's of turnover. Weirdly we have an MD in the UK, but I don't report to him & he's not responsible for the sales budget, but, that's just how our company works.

Do I worry about it more than when I was just selling myself? Not really, to me a target is a target. The number of zeros on the end of it is irrelevant & with that many, you can't focus on the end goal, because its too big a number to influence yourself. The whole machine has to work for it to happen.

I have a number of divisional heads & department heads reporting to me. The process and the strategy of the business is defined down to individuals based on the laws of averages, which can be defined down to simple KPI's. That has to be their focus - otherwise they just get lost in what they need to do to hit a massive number at the end of the year.

If they do what we need them to, every day, based on the above the end number just happens. Yes there is lots of noise, distractions & challenges on the way, but we just have to keep the focus on the important bits.

People to me are always the biggest stress. The people I directly manage & the people they manage - every day is a school day in that respect.

Working life is a little strange to me these days. I've got to where I am by doing a few of the jobs lower down the ladder & now I feel like I don't actually 'do' that much work day to day, if that makes sense. I just seem to delegate a whole lot of things for other people to do.

In a previous life I had a role reporting to some of the corporate execs.

- Everyone builds a highly subjective model of the world they live in. It probably bears very little resemblance to anything close to objective reality. These guys have a way of looking at the world that keeps them sane and helps them make sense of stuff without getting too stressed.

- There are numerous tools to help people manage crazy workloads, they actual work and most of these guys are highly trained and effective at using them. Things like David Allen's GTD.
- The pay scale does a hockey stick at a certain level. Regardless of stress, these guys were on significant 6 figure or 7 figure pay. Sort of like being a football manager, even if you burned out and failed in 5 years you were set for life.

- There are basically no consequences for failure, as long as you avoid any criminal charges. Even if you burn out and fail at CEO, you will have ample opportunity to pick up another similar role or join a non exec director / consultancy gravy train. Hurrah.

I have run teams of anywhere between 3 - 3,500 people and been responsible for the direction a company takes, the design and functionality product they delivers and the delivery to customers. It can seem daunting and stressful but if you try to define stress and then identify how you can address the components it kind oif reduces to manageable levels.

For Me - Stress is the responsibility for decisions and events over which I do not have sufficient control.

EG - I need to deliver X by the end of the month but don't know who is supplying the raw material, what labour is available and don't have a proper definition of exactly what X is. This is stressful.

My Solution - Get X properly defined, identify what is required to deliver it in terms of materials and labour, source those and plan the delivery. If it doesn't fit the time lines then either renegotiate the delivery date or increase the labour to deliver. If neither of these options is available then it is either your boss's bad decision and he needs to take responsibility or if you are the boss then you need to understand how you committed to something impossible and avoid doing it again.

Also - Don't worry about what you cannot control such as a pandemic. Focus on what you can do to mitigate it but don't worry about the pandemic itself.

I’m actually worried for the 7 families who rely on me doing a good job to keep money and projects incoming so they have a job. That’s what ultimately keeps me up at night, currently more than usual.

So much this. Being a business owner is not easy, especially right now.

Check out Michael Marmot’s ‘Civil Service 2’ study, it is dynamite and check Richard Wilkinson on the disbenefits of inequality.

I was just reading this thread and was going to mention that. There's a good Life Scientific podcast where he's interviewed about the study. Well worth a listen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b016ld4q

Luckily I don't manage a team now but when I did I felt a great weight of responsibility to deliver for my company, managing my team and keeping them sane whilst also demanding they deliver to a high standard, and commitment to our customers...who ultimately pay our wages. It felt like an impossible task to fulfil all three, especially when some elements of your team are playing up and trying their best to be deliberately disruptive for their own selfish aims. I'm the kind of person who enjoys a bit of stress and thrives on it. I don't do well in a zero stress environment, but I found it very difficult and just ended up working 24/7 because I wanted my team to look good and ultimately deliver for the benefit of us all. My wife was very pleased when I moved roles to one where I no longer manage a team as it meant in evenings, weekends and holiday's i'm not continually checking my phone and getting involved in stuff that occurs.

It's very hard and that is only why about 1% of the population are actually capable and any good at it and why successful CEO's and big cheeses command the big packages they do...and they deserve every penny in my book...these kind of jobs require 100% commitment sacrificing all else in your life...family, pastimes and other pursuits, and no doubt takes years off your life. You couldn't pay me enough to do those kind of jobs. Easy to mud sling at people from the comfort of your keyboard, but to actually sit in the chair and do the job is a very different prospect...trying to balance impossible demands all pulling in opposite directions. 99% of us wouldn't last a day in the hot seat. We just don't have the mental capacity, aptitude or ability to manage the stress. Some things in life you can't learn or develop...you either have it or you don't. Which is why so often in large organisations people are promoted to levels of incompetence...they perform well at the lower levels, look promising but as they move up the structure will inevitably reach their limits and only the 1% make it through to the top.

I learned there is such a thing as good and bad stress. Good stress is where you are able to influence the outcome and manage the stress applied on you...may require you to work hard but hey, that's life.

Bad stress is where you cannot influence it and just have to manage it. My role was a mix of both, trying to manage things I could influence and some things I couldn't. The former is about the team pulling together and being focussed and delivering...the latter is just about day to day crisis management and just getting through.

Still feel stress in my current role but it's just me to worry about without the added pressure of managing and being responsible for a team.

I’m assuming MrsSteve is a Dr

Social worker. Even worse!

Very different sorts of stress apply to different jobs/ roles I think. Mine for example isn't financial but advising Gov't, getting shouted at by angry public, being on-site at incidents such as Grenfell and seeing those who lost their lives being brought out.

Stress is not about what job you do, stress is about having demands placed on you without the power to make the changes to deliver on those demands.

Having worked with a few chief executives and managing directors in FTSE 100s it's not actually a job I'd cherish because of the personal sacrifices it requires. I worked with the guy who is now chairman of the what is the UK's infrastructure project - he works from 4am to 12pm most days - it demands and huge amount of effort and a certain level of detail without getting absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of "stuff" that comes your way. There are the occasional 'psychos' but they soon get rumbled for their appalling behaviour and the consequences on their people. Building a good team around themselves is essential - being able to delegate stuff and ensuring that you're only dealing with the stuff that merits your attention / experience / decision-making. I've seen people and businesses get completely over-whelmed because they failed to delegate and give clear responsibilities / direction.

I've also worked closely with the military and emergency services - some of the decisions those guys make and the consequences they have to deal with don't bear thinking about - many are hugely under-valued in terms of what they do.

Stress is not about what job you do, stress is about having demands placed on you without the power to make the changes to deliver on those demands.

Bang on - but I'd also add that stress happens when you don't have the knowledge or confidence make or identify the changes.

The average CEO has 3 bosses:

Customer
Team
Board and Shareholders

Each of these has the power to fire them directly or indirectly through their actions.

If you sit down and have a cup of tea with a few you will realise they are not that different to you, get just as stressed, but as a leader do not get to show their feelings in public. Big difference is the scale and consequence of their actions. E.g Making 1 person redundant on a team Vs 5,000 across a co can be of equal stress for all involved - CEO, team manager and the people getting made redundant. There are just as many good vs bad CEO’s as you will find in any other department within a large co. If you really want to get deep there are many other areas of business that attract bad people without the capability to be a CEO than can be horrible to work in as a result.

One thing I can be confidant of is after one year in the seat, even with the salary... The majority of people would chose to step down voluntarily for an easier role that lets them enjoy a ride and their family.

In terms of coping mechanisms: From chats I have had - Recruiting and building the best team around them + treating them well so they perform (+ stay engaged / and don’t leave on offer of first pay rise) by far beats any other mechanisms. Bit more nuanced than delegating.

The higher you get, the more things average out.

Kryton having a disasterous quarter in sales (in a non pandemic situation) will have dire consequences for him; but his boss managing 20 salesmen, of whom 19 perform adequately or better, is at the very least, doing OK.

A seven figure CEO getting sacked, spending a few months relaxing at their second home in Barbados and then getting another similar job is a different proposition to someone losing their minimum wage job and there being no current vacancies in their town.

Ayjay pretty much nails it I reckon..real pressure is not being able to feed your family or being able to pay the morgage, something very few execs will ever need to think about even if they are fired.

Classic example is Andy Hornby. CEO of hbos during the financial crash. Absolutely destroyed in the press, by parliament, pretty much blamed for the entire fall of the company. Within 6 months he's back at work, this time as CEO of Boots. When you get to that level there is always another lucrative job waiting for you, no matter how badly the last one went

Couple that with fact I reckon most of these people are sociopaths who don't care about the impact of their actions on others and I reckon they all sleep pretty soundly at night..

Ayjay pretty much nails it I reckon..real pressure is not being able to feed your family or being able to pay the morgage, something very few execs will ever need to think about even if they are fired.

Classic example is Andy Hornby. CEO of hbos during the financial crash. Absolutely destroyed in the press, by parliament, pretty much blamed for the entire fall of the company. Within 6 months he’s back at work, this time as CEO of Boots. When you get to that level there is always another lucrative job waiting for you, no matter how badly the last one went

Couple that with fact I reckon most of these people are sociopaths who don’t care about the impact of their actions on others and I reckon they all sleep pretty soundly at night..

Their are plenty of very low paid low stress jobs out there. There is a reason most people don't want them.

Yes the stress of a living wage earner losing their job and potentially their home is far higher than a CEO being fired. The financial cushion and chances of another job must be higher the higher up the ladder.

It does seem to be a bit of a club in ftse CEO s, the same names cropping up as above, wasn't there a study of ftse CEO salaries rising massively over the last 5 years whereas the living wage was fairly static.

A friend was the pa to a ftse CEO she used to read all his personal letters and manage his personal business. She once get a letter from his bank asking why he had a certain amount in his current account, it was over 100k.

BillMC nailed it as did a few of the last posts...
Executives tend to be protected from the effects of stress as they have choices. Those on minimum wage don’t So the stress makes them ill, and they die earlier because of it.

Edit to fix link

It does seem to be a bit of a club in ftse CEO s, the same names cropping up as above, wasn’t there a study of ftse CEO salaries rising massively over the last 5 years whereas the living wage was fairly static.

I can identify with this.  The CEO of the company we've just been acquired from has a base salary of $1.5m, reported to earn about $8m a year after commissions, bonuses etc.  For the last five years of his transformative management the company has nosedived, going from $18 a share to $2.6 a share.   An article was out in the US financials about him being one of the most disproportionality paid execs in the Fortune 500.

I've worked in sales and the stress of targets and performance is a real issue. However, sales does pay well and we expected new grads to be on 30-35k after one year and 40-50k after 2. If you weren't able to hit that then it was a grind to hit the commission/keeping your job threshold for basic salary.

The senior people didn't worry about the millions of pounds. They worried about their own personal financial and job security situation. It ease more about whether they could keep the cash rolling for their big mortgage rather than concerns about individual staff or the actual millions of cash overall. This disconnect made them "better" capitalist managers but removed a human element or even a holistic concern about them company's health.

If you Cound have guaranteed them a doubling of their 100k package for 5 years but the company lost 90% of their profits and laid of 50% of their staff, many would have taken it.

Not everyone, but this disconnection is how people cope. They see it in the abstract.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but in many companies the top exec team only has one real concern - keeping the institutional shareholders happy. This can mean growth, mergers etc, basically whatever it takes to increase share price.

On a normal day it just means reducing expenditure and increasing revenue to improve EBITDA. The easiest way to do this is to cut staff if you've got a short term view. They can often have no longer term vision as they are too busy saving their own job every quarter.

The easiest way to do this is to cut staff if you’ve got a short term view. They can often have no longer term vision as they are too busy saving their own job every quarter.

It also depends on the purpose of their appointment and earnings bonus - I've seen people come & go earning a big bonus for increasing EBITDA by cutting the teams drastically, then watched a product fall to its competitors because theres no investment.

If you're long term, you need to grow the revenues which is a much more lengthy and complex job of Sales enablement, Marketing, Product management etc.

Surely the latter is more stressful for the type of exec that's want that job, whereas the former is probably for a thick skinned well paid CEO thats happy to move on quickly.