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BBC Breaking News ? @BBCBreakingCerrar
British Olympic Association loses hearing meaning ex drugs cheats will be eligible for selection at London 2012, BBC understands. More soon
Good luck to them.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17853070 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17853070[/url]
"Ex" drug cheats?
No "ex" about it.
I gave up smoking 10 years ago.
Am I...
a) a non smoker?
b) an ex smoker?
c) a smoker?
I'm genuinely interested.
They have the Olympics and para Olympics, they should also hold a drug cheats Olympics, just imagine the analysis of the athletes performance 😆
seems unfair that they have to compete against current drug cheats
@don simon.
You were involved in a legal activity that didn't enhance your performance to the detriment of non-smokers. Neither did it potentially prevent non-smokers from getting ahead in their career.
I'm an ex-smoker too. 7 years now and feeling the benefits. How about you? 🙂
if he's an ex drug cheat, that's a guarentee he's clean.
Fair play to him, he's served his sentance,now let him get on with it.
That go's for millar too
Bring on Dave Miller.......
served their ban, letting them try to show they can do it "clean" is the right verdict IMO
@ Coyote
I consider myself a non smoker.
I used to smoke, I don't now.
Much the same as Millar (other reformed cheats are available), he used to cheat, he got caught and now, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't cheat. He is therefore clean and should be allowed to compete.
I feel privileged in the fact I know that I'll never smoke again which is more than someone who's never smoked can say (there must be an element of curiosity on their part).
Good luck to them indeed. Sentence served and they should be free to compete in all events.
I have no issue with the ruling, seems logical.
If they're available for selection now, they should be in or out based on form not history.
I don't imagine Chambers will be troubling the podium. I don't know enough about the road cycling - will Millar be going for the win himself or working for Cavendish?
@don simon
Good point well made.
Shall we agree to differ?
Shall we agree to differ?
Sounds good to me. 😀
How much punishment do you doll out. Good luck to them.
I don't imagine Chambers will be troubling the podium. I don't know enough about the road cycling - will Millar be going for the win himself or wrking for Cavendish?
Was the road captain in the world champs when no radios were allowed so is key to Cav. I believe the olympics will have no radios too.
LOL! Only the fools get caught. The best one never and he should fire all his supporting staff for letting him caught.
It's not a matter of who is cheating but actually who can cheat better.
Surely it depends who it is .. and this has been debated loads on STW before. Millar was a cheat who admitted it the minute he was caught, apologised and has done a lot working with drugs bodies and educating people about drugs in sport, he's been very honest when asked "if you hadn't have been caught would you still be doing drugs?" ... he replied "I'd like to say no but probably the honest answer I guess is yes" (my words paraphrased). Unlike Dwain Chambers a drugs cheat who claimed he was innocent ...... then eventually disappears quietly into a corner to serve his ban, along with people like Marion Jones.
someone has mentioned about people serving their ban and accepting they are claim ... ahem ..Ricardo Ricco?? Okay that is an extreme tragic tragic story but look at the pressure on these pro's, if you've read Millar's book it all becomes clear. I used to have a firm view on drugs cheats, get out of the sport never to return, I used to detest Millar and every time I saw him on my TV I would shout at him, read his book and it has educated me (along with other reading) and I feel quite differently about it all now. Chambers still shouldn't be allowed to race and ti's clear Millar only wants to race to support Cav there is no way he wants to race to win himself.
however no 2nd chances, caught again boom dont' pass go, do not compete in any sport ever again.
I'd support a life ban for the Olympics if it was applied worldwide. As usual GB adopted something that disadvantages us against the rest of the world. On that basis, it should be scrapped and GB should push the IOC to apply it to the entire Games themselves.
The head of the anti-doping agency reckons 10% of current athletes are cheating so why bother maintaining a ban on the 'reformed' athletes.
I gave up smoking 10 years ago.
Am I...
a) a non smoker?
b) an ex smoker?
c) a smoker?
I'm genuinely interested.
A smoker who is currently not smoking. I gave up over 20yrs ago and thats what I consider myself.
Millar will be a huge asset to the road team. Brailsford has already said he would select the best team regardless of history so I think he might be in.
He knows his stuff as he's been in the game a while. He's also a very talented rider so will be an asset. Not sure how Millar will prioritise it compared to the Tour though, surely lower?
I have respect for Millar as he admitted mistakes and is clearly a reformed character, not so sure about Chambers.
shame, cheats do prosper it seems
Did they know the rules when they decided to cheat? I assume so, so they cheated, got caught and now at least ought to have the balls to accept the penalty
Millar is my favourite cyclist, bright guy.
Read his book then judge him.
Cav's chances will be a lot stronger with Millar to marshall the team and sit on the front to chase down
I think 2 years is too short, should be 3 or 4 and the rules should be much less ambiguous but that's a discussion about the UCI which is a completely different thread
I prefer them to repay back the money won if caught then ban them for several years.
DaveT yes but I think the point is the BOA rules are different from other country governing bodies and that's the point!
Read his book then judge him
i think he's already been judged,result-Ban, but that seems to count for nothing
i think he's already been judged,result-Ban, but that seems to count for nothing
They received and served bans from competition.
The BOA didn't impose a ban. They have a by-law.
They will never get rid of drugs involvement in sport because of the stupid money and all the sponsors.
Ban counts for nothing?
Erm...he got a ban...served it...that was nothing?
result-Ban, but that seems to count for nothing
Well it was actually a two year ban that has now ended...
They served their bans, now let them in.
David Millars book is brilliant, hes a really intelligent bloke who is now helping authorities tackle the drug issues.
Genuinely surprised by the support for 'them'. Understand the differing stance of the BOA but everybody else should be adopting same not the other way round. Bloomin human rights being used again beyond its best and fundamental purposes. They cheated, prospered at the time, stole the chances of others who might have been at their peak and better without cheating and now get to try again. Drugs are not a slight bending of the rules. If Cav gets help off Millar his gold would be forever tainted. Same for any other team events with a drugs cheat. Great that past cheats might be working promoting anti drug stances but that's only trying to repair some of the damage they've done, it in no way earns them the right to be forgiven. Too liberal by half....
If Cav gets help off Millar his gold would be forever tainted.
That's just your opinion, right? Because I see it differently. 😉
Genuinely surprised by the support for 'them'...
... in no way earns them the right to be forgiven.
Forgiven by who?
It's not about forgiveness, it's about the right to compete again once they've served their ban.
don simon (ex smoker) - yes but I've never been unique in my thought processes. Yet anyway 😉
higgo - legally yes but there'll be plenty of the public, and many professional athletes, who'll wonder whether seeing convicted drugs cheats on the Olympic is a good thing for the sport. Forgiven by the public for tainting sport? Forgiven by the athletes they cheated?
A bad ruling generally for sport imho only of course!
yes but I've never been unique in my thought processes.
Me neither. 😀
If Cav gets help off Millar his gold would be forever tainted.
So if the England team wins the European cup this year with Reo Ferdinand on the team will that taint the result?
🙂 S'what makes the world go round eh? Question tho - if Chambers had a chance of winning would you be shouting for him with pride?
Heard on the Fighting Talk the other week that something like 50+ of the British team have been 'drafted' in for these olympics. Don't know how true that is or if it is a common occurrence but it made me think (again not that common an occurence!).
grahamh - didn't know he'd been found guilty of drug taking BUT get your point and hence sort of yes! Not gonna be an issue tho is it? Might be a tainted quarter final loss I suppose 😉 Should be a zero tolerance policy ex clear medical issues.
I genuinely can't decide. I perceive sportsman to live a priveleged life and to be role models for upcoming athletes. For them to throw it all away and cheat for personal/team gain is awful.
But then they've served their ban...
However a "you won't get a second chance" would i would hope be a greater deterrent.
They are only ex cheats because they got caught.they would still be taking them if they thought they could get away with it.
didn't know he'd been found guilty of drug taking
He fail to attend a "Pre arrange" drug test, giving the excuse that "I forgot". So guilty for failure to attend, same as if giving a positive result. Served a six month ban.
grahamh - yep aware of that. Highly dubious all round but still not a guilty drugs cheat. Fwiw I would be less stressed from a sporting perspective about a none performance enhancing but still illegal drug.
Ex drug cheats have gone to the Olympics for years and will continue to do so, only now, so can British ones.
The Council For the Arbitration of sport who made the decision know what they are talking about and every sporting body abides by their decision.
End of as far as I'm concerned.
deepreddave - Member
Bloomin human rights being used again beyond its best and fundamental purposes.
Yeah! Bloomin human rights...had nothing to do with it.
"The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) will tomorrow announce their decision that [b]the BOA's bylaw does not comply with the World Anti-Doping Agency's (WADA) global code[/b], sources with knowledge of the case have confirmed to the Press Association."
[url] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/boa-lose-appeal-to-keep-drug-cheats-out-of-london-olympics-7688982.html [/url]
I have it on good authority that Rio would not have tested positive for a performance enhancing drug had he been tested that day.
I completed reading Millar's book last weekend.
I'd suggest that if you're anti Millar, but haven't read the book.
Then you would do worse than to spend sometime reading Racing through the dark.
It certainly wasn't / isn't black and white.
Millar held out against it for as long as he could.
The prospect of representing his country actually got him to clean up.
titles he won while using, have been withdrawn.
He has served his ban.
I believe that any performance he'd give today would be clean.
So, if hes got the talent and can take the pain.
Then he should, perhaps, be considered.
The past is the past and any Man's effort to make good, should not be dismissed.
In my opinon.
I'll support lifetime bans when drug testing becomes infallible. And that means no one who is cheating can evade detection and that no one who is clean can test positive.
Oh and someone needs to explain to me how athletes can be corrupted but testers and lab staff cannot.
Lifer - I feel the laws are based on the intent to avoid 'unfair discrimination' which is based in part at least on the liberal elements of the HRA.
😐
cynical
Ban counts for nothing? Erm...he got a ban...served it...that was nothing?
Counts for nothing coz they let him and the others back in, life ban or no ban would have been better, two years of "training" is hardly fitting
😯two years of [s]"training"[/s] not pulling a salary on top of the fine is hardly fitting
This guy has all but fallen off my radar, he might still be racing somewhere but a quick look doesn't pull anything.
Hector Guerra:
La UCI confirmó la sanción de dos años de suspensión (hasta el 2 de agosto de 2011) decidida por la RFEC y añadió una sanción económica de 35.000 euros.3
Hardly an extended training session, is it?
I like to think we live in a world were people are afforded second chances. Lets be honest, probably the biggest punishment is that they have been branded cheats. That won't go away. They should be subject to more frequent testing. But as I understand it all medal winners are tested automatically.
Unlike Dwain Chambers a drugs cheat who claimed he was innocent ...... then eventually disappears quietly into a corner to serve his ban
errr no he didn't
and don't forget the "confessional" book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiyVBhc3ipc&feature=related
all very like a certain cyclist.......
if you search you will find the interview where he explains his techniques for dodging tests, the same techniques that were used by a female athlete, who got a technical ban, who then appealed whilst threatening to change nationality, who then competed and won gold.
But as I understand it all medal winners are tested automatically
How many tests did DC and DM not test positive in?
The key is out-of-competition testing including blood tests and a biological passport system. The issue is that it is too expensive and doesn't go down well with the athletes
I have it on good authority that Rio would not have tested positive for a performance enhancing drug had he been tested that day.
recreational then?. Drugs are a funny thing in sport Matt Stevans got two years for recreational drugs and other players get ten weeks for sticking fingers in other eyess or breaking arms after the whistle.
I thought Millar was more of a time triallist ? Is there a TT in the Olynpics or just the road race ??
There is a time trial, Millar might get top 10 if he rode well. He is wanted for his racing brain and power to get Cav to the last 350m. He'll be the road captain and will organise the riders in the absence of team radios
So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?
Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?
So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?
And a substantial fine.
Contador lost nearly €2,5 million.
So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?
Like drunk driving init.
Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?
Wetherspoons.
[i]So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?
Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?
[/i]
Hora. Are you being serious ?.
I ask because on the face of that post.
You appear to know very little about Millar's story.
Meanwhile in the velodrome, Bauge may beat Hoy in the final. Would anyone want to see someone who has already been stripped of a title for dodging tests win a gold this summer?
I think not.
Contador lost nearly €2,5 million.
You could view it that BEFORE he was caught he was actively taking money off of clean competitors.
You could indeed...
[i]You could view it that BEFORE he was caught he was actively taking money off of clean competitors. [/i]
Hence the fine.
Hey, Hora.
I've decided that we are not going to remove the three points you have on your drivers license, for speeding.
They can stay there and valid for enternity.
I know you didn't want to speed.
While doing so, you did put the lives at others at risk.
So thats it.
Points aren't for 3 years they're for life.
So I could take the chance of wins/podiums etc and the worse that can happen to me if I'm caught is a two year ban?
Where do you sign up to this chemical advantage?
No drug is that powerful unless you sweat a compound that kills others – even then it would need to be a circuit so you can pick them off as they lap you 😛
Read his book then judge him
I've read Millar's book and although I have sympathy for him and can't say I would have behaved differently with 100% honesty, it still doesn't excuse it. His interviews are a mix of "it was my fault, there's nothing I can say to explain it" and "here's why I did it, it wasn't my fault". It shows how even to himself, he's still not able to separate how much was him and how much was the sport.
I do very much admire him not trying to get involved in overturning the BOC lifetime ban. He does very much come across as saying "I had my chance to be clean, I leave it to the rest of you to decide what to do with that"
I have a clean driving licence.
I've no idea what your point is on Millar but no one forced him to cheat. The choice was totally his.
no one forced him to cheat. The choice was totally his
Thinking like that is why sport struggles to become drug free.
Shouldn't the onus be on competing clean rather than blaming pressure and drop in performance as the reason why you decided to seek an unfair advantage?
Hoy wins without drugs. He wins because hes better, trains, focuses etc etc. I imagine when his talent window starts to dip he'd train harder or hang up his shoes...
Hoy wins without drugs.
How do you know?
[i]I've no idea what your point is on Millar but no one forced him to cheat[/i]
Hora.
You understand my driving licence analogy.
Of course I have no idea whether you personally have points on your licence.
🙄
And your comment ^^^ now indicates to me that you do not know his story.
Yet you are judging him.
Thats very shakey ground.
His team broke him, they raced him until he was a mess.
I doubt you'd ever be able to prove it, but I think the team had a hidden agenda to get him on EPO.
Either way, he says he regrets it all.
And has tried to give back, what a Ex-doper can.
Should he be selected, I have no doubt he will feel very honoured and give all he can to support the team.
He may never be able to remove the stain, but at least he has the balls to try, against the opinion of types like yourself, to do something [i]right[/i]
Goodness Hora.
Have you never benefited from someone giving you a second chance ?.
😉
[i]Shouldn't the onus be on competing clean rather than blaming pressure and drop in performance as the reason why you decided to seek an unfair advantage[/i]
Hora.
This may be familiar ground to you, but you are approaching Cocksville at an alarming speed.
So you have read the book then 🙄
His speeding suggests that all offences have a penalty period and dont last indefinitely...speeding is a good example should you loose your licence for ever for it? Or can you learn from the errors of your ways and reform?
I am not a fan of a blanket rule either way as it all depends on how /why the person cheated , their reaction afterwards etc
Contador is a good example - there is some good evidence out there that his cheating showed signs of systematic doping [ his biological passport] and attempts to mask. He maintained innocence and now accepts it was a tainted supplement despite saying there was no chance of this pre the decision. I would treat people like this [ cheats who deny] far worse than Millar - others are available and I dont want to turn this into a Contrador debate simply highlighting the difference between a reformed and apologetic competitor and one who is not.
The other problem with cycling is that it was endemic within the sport [ probably still is ]and the only think that singles Millar out from many of his peers is that he was caught. if you think Millar will be the only drug cheating cyclist then that is very naive. I would have more faith in Millar being clean that in pretty much any other athlete tbh.
Err right. A pro-cheat throwing insults. Good to see the cheats attract your type 😆