Ooof https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57428258
Open letter here - https://www.punkswithpurpose.org/dearbrewdog/
Is all publicity really good publicity?
There seems to be a disconnect between the image and the reality.
They'll probably launch "Toxic Culture IPA" next month
I almost accepted a job in their Finance department a few years back but the recurring story I got back was expect long hours and they want their pound of flesh. I'm glad I didn't join as they binned their newly formed Finance department first lockdown. They've also been through 3 CFO's in 3 years, make of that what you will.
It also common to hear that their brewers are or have left to join rival breweries here in the north east. Another recurring story is one of the founders is ok, the other a narcissistic douche bag
Doesn't sound all power to the punk behind closed doors.
Ouch!
My experience of venture capital is that everyone below the capitalists gets their arse kicked.
It's like most big fast growing business on the planet.
Meh, "former employees didnt like the company/boss they used to work for" next.
Nothing in the letter says anything other than the company is extremely ambitious and profit driven, just like 99% of all other businesses, thats kinda the point of business.
BrewDog – we’re sorry, but you don’t get to spend fourteen years exploiting social media’s lack of interest in nuance or truth, and then shit the bed when it comes back around on you.
Ooooft.
grantyboy
Free MemberIt also common to hear that their brewers are or have left to join rival breweries here in the north east. Another recurring story is one of the founders is ok, the other a narcissistic douche bag
It's always kind of a revolving door for brewers... Even the best employers expect to lose skilled staff either to a larger stronger competitor, a smaller more interesting competitor, or to the endless draw of setting up on your own. So that's kind of par for the course.
But the other, yep, totally.
My experience of venture capital is that everyone below the capitalists gets their arse kicked.
+1. Our new umbrella company is owned by a VC... The way it was described to me is thats there's a monthly payment to be paid to the VC via revenues. If it can't be paid, they start selling off...
I know Private Eye have covered concerns about profligate spending on personal expenses by the founder(s).
And...
They’ve also been through 3 CFO’s in 3 years
fits with that.
Brewdog just seems like hipster, man-bun shit to me. I went in when they first opened in Aberdeen and the beer I had tasted like curry.
The beer isn't that nice either. Had some Lost Lager last summer and it was totally insipid.
+1 for the beer being sub par and ambitiously priced.
At least now I've more motivation for continuing to avoid giving them my custom.
i dont know much about their internal policies, but they do commit crime everytime they release a new drink.
Utter pond water.
Rank.
Only tried punk ipa and that was over carbonated tasteless shite, I stick with anything Vocation Brewery ftw
I quite like the beer and the bar they've opened in Perth has added a bit of quality amongst the Wetherspoon esque establishments. James does sound like a weapons grade bell end though.
The only employee I know had beer delivered free, at home, whist furloughed
Had some Lost Lager last summer and it was totally insipid.
Lost Lager is awful stuff. Brewdog have made some great beers over the years though, and still have plenty of good ones. Some of the bars are great places as well. Other options are available...
@ Kelvin.
I'm having a s day at work and that punk squirrel ipa vid has just cheered me right up.
and yeah, f brewdog.
The can label is inspired.
There seems to be a disconnect between the image and the reality.
What is the image? The Blink182 of beer?
Meh, “former employees didnt like the company/boss they used to work for”
I'd be pretty gutted if I ran a firm and that many former employees put their name to a letter like that. Brewdog always seemed like posturing ****s to me TBH, acting 'edgy' and trolling to get media traction, being 'rebels' but available in all major supermarkets.
I find the beer alright though, but there is much better available.
Meh, “former employees didnt like the company/boss they used to work for” next.
Nothing in the letter says anything other than the company is extremely ambitious and profit driven, just like 99% of all other businesses, thats kinda the point of business.
Knowing one of those signatories personally I can assure you it's not just a case of disgruntled former employees getting wide. Whether or not an employer is ambitious and profit driven they still have a duty of care to employees and especially should not shrug off sexual assault as "part of the job" (bar worker).
This tallies with what I've heard from people within the industry.
To be honest, most craft breweries don't seem to be great places to work.
I’d be pretty gutted if I ran a firm and that many former employees put their name to a letter like that
Yep but the letter doesn't really say anything of any substance other than " i didnt like working there (and niether did these other people)" and "the owners using private jets", so what!
Meh, “former employees didnt like the company/boss they used to work for” next.
Nothing in the letter says anything other than the company is extremely ambitious and profit driven, just like 99% of all other businesses, thats kinda the point of business.
The difference being with Brewdog is that they try to portray themselves as a great place to work with a great culture when clearly the reality is somewhat different.
I feel sorry for the staff if they been in that sort of culture, it's shockingly common even these days, there's no excuse for it, having said that...
the other a narcissistic douche bag
Lots of "driven" people are like this. The trick is keeping them focused on the business rather than let them get anywhere near other humans
Meh, “former employees didnt like the company/boss they used to work for” next.
This sort of crap can get in the sea.,
Wow. That didn't take long.
https://mobile.twitter.com/FairHospitality/status/1402918707043749888?s=1005
Yep but the letter doesn’t really say anything of any substance other than ” i didnt like working there (and niether did these other people)”
You're missing the point. The accusations are out there and well known to those paying attention. But that aside, how many employers have open letters published against them regarding a toxic culture? Precious few I'd imagine. So ask yourself, why is this important enough to warrant it?
BrewDogJames
18h
Hey Everyone,Just to let you know. We saw the Punkspurpose tweet and we will post a full response soon. On our growth journey we have not always got things right and we are happy to admit when that is the case.
However, we have always had a high performance culture, we have always moved at speed and we have always focussed on growth.
It is fair to say that this type of fast paced and intense environment is definitely not for everyone, but many of our fantastic long term team members have thrived in our culture. Our culture is built on rewarding and developing great people and focussing on growing our business .
We will a share a full update soon.
James
First reply on Forum...
I’ll take gaslighting for $100
Quite a few on the forum are calling for James to go...
Eurgh, that "current crew" response letter is cringeworthy. The please respond with a "YES" by 10.30am just smacks of otherwise you name will be on a "list"
That fact that they (the management) call themselves Mission Control speaks volumes TBH
Wow. That didn’t take long.
https://mobile.twitter.com/FairHospitality/status/1402918707043749888?s=1005
/blockquote>Urgh that is truly horrible. Imagine responding to this by pretending to be listening in your public statement, then sneakily putting together a made-up organic response 'from the crew' which also involves a loyalty test to weed out existing trouble-makers. Also, going on about how you must be good employers because you have 'pawternity' leave. 🤢 Never mind the Elvis quotes. 🙁
You’re missing the point. The accusations are out there and well known to those paying attention. But that aside, how many employers have open letters published against them regarding a toxic culture? Precious few I’d imagine. So ask yourself, why is this important enough to warrant it?
MAybe it is , maybe it isn't. What i dont like is the "trial be social media" that goes on today. Accusations, and lets be clear thats all it is without any evidence, are made openly via some media platform and suddenly someone or some business` reputation is tarnished for ever. If they have done anything wrong then why isn't it investigated properly or legal proceedings brought in private until the truth is out. Then and only then should it be publicly broadcast.
Never tried their brew.
Make your mind up, first you were arguing that they're just pissed off employees who couldn't hack the pace, now your claiming that they'll tarnish the founders reputation forever...Those things can't both be right, can they?
why isn’t it investigated properly or legal proceedings brought in private until the truth is out
And how do you propose they do that? Who would pay?
Never tried their brew.
Piss in a glass, leave it out in the sun for a few weeks before chilling it in the fridge.
There's a first page to that message in the tweet also where it says the whistleblower message is demeaning to current staff and also a threat to their livelihoods which might result in job losses. So that's definitely not threatening people to sign up to the rebuttal statement.... 🤔
Never tried their stuff - I’m strictly a Stella/ Peroni man I’m afraid, but presumably they tried to position themselves as a brand of the people type of thing and that’s why this has caused a bit of a fuss. Isn’t this just the disconnect between marketing and reality…and you’d have to be a bit daft to believe all the marketing you see.
I can’t believe nobody has called out that latest Innocent ad about saving the earth when they are owned by coke (or certainly were)
I can’t believe nobody has called out that latest Innocent ad about saving the earth when they are owned by coke (or certainly were)
Yes they have.
MAybe it is , maybe it isn’t. What i dont like is the “trial be social media” that goes on today. Accusations, and lets be clear thats all it is without any evidence, are made openly via some media platform and suddenly someone or some business` reputation is tarnished for ever. If they have done anything wrong then why isn’t it investigated properly or legal proceedings brought in private until the truth is out. Then and only then should it be publicly broadcast.
Because tribunals aren't a cure to a negative culture in an organisation, they are an action brought about by an individual. More than likely a firm with any intelligence will pay someone off before it gets to court and will require an NDA - then no one outside the business gets to hear about it for risk of financial reprisal.
Want to highlight fundamental issues with a business - publicly shame them.
Saying it all needs to be done privately allows someone who is guilty to hide, if your reputation is good it can survive, if not then it will be rightfully tarnished.
If they have done anything wrong then why isn’t it investigated properly or legal proceedings brought in private until the truth is out
I really don't think you understand this at all.
£2k for an industrial tribunal may be a start, not many folk can afford either the financial or reputational cost. Maybe try reading the first letter again and consider peoples positions from that perspective. If you then read the response from Brewdog it shouldn't be too hard to join the dots.
Quite like Punk IPA as it goes, that's not reading well though.
And how do you propose they do that? Who would pay?
depends who wins doesnt it?
I was on the fence on this until I saw their management drafted response form the 'crew' with the not so subtle loyalty test aligned with it. That is a truly appalling position to put staff in.
just like 99% of all other businesses, thats kinda the point of business.
That is a very narrow and reductionist view of the purpose of employment in the economy and wider-society. Reaganomics is not good economics.
I`ll dip out at this point, dont want it to disintegrate into another typical STW thread... But the majority of posters so far are backing the ex staff and their unsubstantiated claims without seeing any evidence to back up these claims.
It smacks of "guilty until proven innocent". There are plenty of laws protecting people in the workplace. If Brew dog have broken any of those then it should be dealt with appropriately (not via social media).
Brewdog - the Heineken of craft beer..
If Brew dog have broken any of those then it should be dealt with appropriately (not via social media).
You'd never find out, because their lawyers would undoubtedly insist on an NDA.
As a shareholder, I want this company to uphold its stated aims of its people being paramount.
Imo (not having worked there but being party to a fair bit via the punks forum) James' insistence on a high-performance* environment being the only way the BD can prosper is not in the long term interests of its staff.
*or to put it another way, toxic.
But the majority of posters so far are backing the ex staff and their unsubstantiated claims without seeing any evidence to back up these claims
All we can do is form a judgement based on information in the public domain. Like @Franksinatra, I was on the fence until I saw Brewdog's response, which is a not so subtle attempt to suggest that the ex-employee wasn't up to the job, along with flushing out anyone else not deemed to be sufficiently loyal. It's a crappy thing to do.
@trailwagger - brewdog may not have broken any specific employment laws worth going to a tribunal about, but they market themselves as lovely cuddly brewers out to break the mould, from that letter signed by many ex employees it seems that isn't really the case at all, live by the sword die by the sword in my book.
My experience of venture capital is that everyone below the capitalists gets their arse kicked.
This.
'reach out to Mission Control' - where is the 'feeling sick' icon?
But the majority of posters so far are backing the ex staff and their unsubstantiated claims without seeing any evidence to back up these claims.
At least one poster knows one of the disgruntled employees....
As a shareholder, I want this company to uphold its stated aims of its people being paramount.
Not having a pop, as a shareholder, do you think you can achieve that?
Not having a pop, as a shareholder, do you think you can achieve that?
Well in theory if you can persuade enough shareholders with voting rights to agree then you can replace the boards / mgmt team etc. Would take a lot of activism to manage that though.....
I knew almost nothing about brewdog before today only that they made overpriced OK beer and seemed to be in the press a lot.
Crikey that response just reinforces everything in the former employee's open letter.
"we cannot remain quiet when we know that creating a public perception of brewdog as a bad place to work could potentially jeopardise job security" Then going on to tell you how you need to say how much you love working there and YOU MUST ADD YOUR NAME TO THIS BY 10:30 AM
Its implied that by not adding my name am I helping to create a negative public perception and therefor my job security is "potentially" at risk...
That is the nail in the coffin right there! If they had done nothing I would perhaps have just thought it was some disgruntled employee!
The Venture Capitalists had better sack this guy pronto or their cash cow is going to die.
What i dont like is the “trial be social media” that goes on today.
Live by the sword, die by the sword?
being ‘rebels’ but available in all major supermarkets.
Not to mention all major supermarkets in Madrid. Nothing against their beer, it's certainly a cut above a normal industrial lager, but they're hardly the rebels their marketing makes them out to be.
I may be mistaken but wasn't it Brewdog who "accidentally" or "didnt mean to" set their lawyers on a newly opened pub a few years ago, as the pub was called Lonewolf and so is their Vodka? And it was a copyright infringement or such?
it wasnt until someone pointed out (on social media, i believe) that they weren't exactly being punk or living up to thier own ethos?
Happy to be wrong, i cant remember the details...
but they’re hardly the rebels their marketing makes them out to be.
Seems there's a lot they marketed themselves as that isn't true.
+1 for the beer being sub par and ambitiously priced.
I think you mean "reassuringly expensive".
Of course prior to that, Stella was simply cheap piss. Then, overnight, it was overpriced piss.
they tried to position themselves as a brand of the people type of thing
To be fair, most people shop in Tesco.
Having worked for a small craft brewer, before “craft brewer” was a thing, and then listening to a number of former employees of another local craft brewer, the noise coming out of Brew Dog, both from that open letter and Mission Control’s response, is carbon copy.
Flagrant ignorance of H&S, bullying, gaslighting, sexual misconduct, is par for the course. It seems that a narcissistic personality disorder is a prerequisite of craft brewery owners.
Such a shame that this isn't still on iPlayer.
Was pretty obvious that it was an 'interesting' culture.
'Yeah, yeah, you guys choose your new director' says James.
Soon afterwards, possibly even the same day, the BBC was asked to switch the cameras off. It was decided that James would get to select the director after all.
And I seem to remember some of the sideways glances to camera from the employees were better than anything in the Office or Parks & Rec.
A great watch but probably not the best recruitment video.
Quick edit, here's a link to an article at the time. The writing has been on the wall for a while it would seem...
Did anyone believe the marketing bs in the first place? Punk ethos plus capitalism equals 🤔
Did they make Sick! frames....
On our growth journey
The sea is that way good sir. Get the **** in it.
Best Regards,
Phill - Drinking Crabbies whilst typing this so may get a warning from the mods.
Did anyone believe the marketing bs in the first place?
I've hardly ever bought their stuff, not because I saw through it as marketing BS but just because all the **** they printed on labels annoyed me. It's just a beer, not a lifestyle choice.
Did anyone believe the marketing bs in the first place? Punk ethos plus capitalism equals 🤔
...the Sex Pistols. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
As a fan of craft beer I don't care about their ethos. What counts is whether it's good. Most craft beer in supermarkets is similarly priced so that's not an issue. Some of brewdog's stuff is decent, some is bland and too much of it is too similar. How many pales and ipas do they need?
I like their beer FWIW. But I wouldn't work there.
I did the Heriot Watt Brewing and Distilling MSc a couple of years back. It's essentially produces the cannon fodder for the brewing and distilling industries in Scotland.
I was the class rep for our year, so was pretty involved with folk were up to and what they did after they left.
There are loads of really good people working at Brewdog, some of their project/scientific work into low energy brewing etc is really good.
However, the working conditions/burnout/turnover rate is really high. Most people do it for a year/18 months to get it on the CV.
Brewdog's marketing schtik and the reality of the company are pretty far apart these days. Maybe it added up in 2015 but not any more.
They didn't make it on my list of places to look for work after uni.
Sadly, as mentioned above, I totally got the run around with almost every small brewery and distillery I applied to. To the point where I just gave up. People who own/run these breweries are not good people to work for. The only company who gave me a good recruitment experience were Diageo. I didn't get the job, but their recruitment set up was excellent.
I ended up going back to IT work. However, everyone I am still in touch with from uni is universally fed up with the entire industry. The wages are garbage and the working conditions are in the same bin.
However, it has been a great learning experience for me in how to run my own brewery that should be trading by the end of the year. I've got a philosophy and everyfink.
It seems that a narcissistic personality disorder is a prerequisite of craft brewery owners.
I think it goes with territory of anyone who goes from zero to hero in business. People think their success makes them special and believe their own bullshit - See Tories.
It seems that a narcissistic personality disorder is a prerequisite of craft brewery owners.
That's certainly the impression I get from the two founders. Capital bell ends 😀
Well in theory if you can persuade enough shareholders with voting rights
That would be true if those shares actually conferred such rights. As I recall (and I may be wrong) these shares are shares in name only with no rights or guarantee of ever getting your money back. Its like a really bad version of kickstarter where you get to buy stuff at a discount from RRP but because bulk buyers buy more it's still cheaper from Tesco.
Correct ^. Calling them shares was very disingenuous.
They are shares according to the Financial Statements, its just there aren't many of them compared to the A shares so the A shareholders essentially control the company. I am not too keen on how they have used crowdfunding for later tranches but this criticism seems incorrect.
Premier Icon
trailwagger
Free MemberI`ll dip out at this point, dont want it to disintegrate into another typical STW thread… But
..... here’s why I’m right and you’re all wrong.
Top STW flounce points there iirc
Oh I'm sure they are actual shares, I doubt their lawyers would have let them get away with that. They're just not the kind of shares people are accustomed to, a very one way investment.
They are not quoted so there is no ready market in them but they do offer a dealing service - not much more you can do and this will be common to most crowdfunders. People have sold and early investors have realized profits, but I would never encourage anyone to participate in them as the largely self generated valuations are insanely high.
There are loads of really good people working at Brewdog, some of their project/scientific work into low energy brewing etc is really good.
However, the working conditions/burnout/turnover rate is really high. Most people do it for a year/18 months to get it on the CV.
Yes, but are they able to organise a decent piss-up?
£2k for an industrial tribunal may be a start,
Declared unlawful in court and no longer would apply as a result.
