[Closed] evolution,how did it actually happen?

I think google is your friend... unless someone wants to write very long posts

None of the things you mention there are lifeless

it's very gradual changes over millions of years

cause the universe would be rubbish without it.

change happens because of necessity and from those with a certain atribute replicating and those without that atribute don't.

Chance. Life is changing all the time through random mutations in genes. Some of these are bad, the creature dies. Some of these are good/neutral and are carried on. Over time these offer advantage so the creatures from the line with the mutation thrives.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but the original start was the random creation of RNA, a molecule which can replicate itself. Once you get replication, you get mutation and some of the molecules would have been better at being replicated than other.

Very short [ simplified] answer we dont know but [complex] chains of molecules evolved that could replicate themselves and then these organised to create life

The molecules either developed on earth [ by chance given a long enough timespan- a thousand million years roughly] or they came from outer space [ even longer timescales] no one can be certain

some guy dropped his fluid in the river didn't he? and then withered.

apologies northwind you are right.

it is a complex question no doubt,life beginning from lifelessness.

i must admit to being partial to the idea of a meteorite impacting the earth,which was carrying some sort of organic life,thus starting the chain reaction of life,where there once was nothing.

the other idea of life starting from lifelessness just does my head in tbh just being a numpty not a scientist (with scientist type I.Q).

The origins of life are uncertain. But somehow or other, with the right organic chemicals and perhaps a lightening strike or two, a molecule formed that in an ongoing slow reaction could replicate itself.

There was lots of this molecule as it's self replicating but keeps changing, so part of it caused another reaction that caused other checmicals to form a sort of skin around it, that let other chemicals through, and it became a cell.. for a billion or so years that's all there was - reproducing chemicals in the shape of cells.

Then it starts to get complicated because these chemicals evolved into patterns that would replicate good copies of each other and became single celled organisims - of course with reliable reproduction you'll get lots of copies so you'll spread. But there's a chance of mutation each time, so occasionally some mutation results in a cell that lives longer or can absorb different nutrients or whatever. Then there's another chance mutation that creates cells that can stick together and work with each other - multi celled organisms. A jellyfish could be considered not a single animal but a loose aggolmeration of cells that all do different things for mutual benefit (or so I've heard).

This is evolution - mutation causing the next generation to work a bit better in some situation. Fast forward a billion years and you have.. cats with bread on their heads and STW.

Chance, variation, survival of the fittest, time. That's about it.

Fast forward a billion years and you have.. cats with bread on their heads and STW.

TBH, I'm not convinced that STW is a good argument for evolution but it does make wonder whether Darwin made a typo and really meant to say something about survival of the fattest.

Martin Brasier has written about this in a book called 'Secret Chambers'. It would be as up-to-date as you're likely to find, and fairly accessible. I was sad to read recently that he'd died, for I hoped to read more of the continuing research.

its not really 'survival of the fittest' , but 'removal* of the least fit'

(*removal via death)

Edit: a bit of both.

And it's worth pointing out that most mutations are not beneficial. It's that 'survival' thing that serves as the ultimate test of a mutations value.

it was aliens wot did it

We were designed by a creator using DNA as the coding...
Or we evolved very slowly by luck, chance and selection.

It's a bloody good question and one that shows we shouldn't be too content in our knowledge of any damn thing... so much of our understanding of life, the universe and everything is based on conjecture.

The way I see it, evolution is a smaller branch of ecology, though it's all pretty humbling.

(I've just started thinking how in some instances, different soil types may be a result of minerals deposited by asteroids, meteorites and the like, meaning that ecology and thus evolution goes beyond just earth and is potentially due to interaction throughout the universe n stuff... my head will probably melt soon, or I'll evolve into a fat headed ****)

Archaea: Early singled celled lifeforms formed in mats that slowly formed in hot springs and salt lakes, they fed on chemical processes rather than external sources, one of the more successful ones produced oxygen as a chemical by product (others produced things like sulphuric acid and so on) the oxygenation of the atmosphere enabled the development of bacteria and early eukaryotes (multi celled creatures)...and you're off.

Is that OK, or d'you want more detail?

ts not really 'survival of the fittest' , but 'removal* of the least fit'

Thats the same thing. But mostly its survival of the lucky and then most fairly rapid explosions of speciation in response to mass extinction events.

Didn't God do it to distract the scientists and give the God Squad fans something to rant about and be fanatical?

No-one has ever proved me wrong and not been smoted (apparently)

Early singled celled lifeforms

Where did they come from?

and, though I know how babies are made, how are babies made?

'Life' is bonkers

Just take a look at the Darwin Awards, you can clearly see evolution in action.

One interesting question to consider is that if an asteroid hadn't wiped out the dinosaurs would they have evolved into a higher species or would their presence on the earth have inhibited the evolution of man in some way? or if the asteroid hadn't hit the earth would we have dinosaurs around today? like cows in a field....

What if our ancestors were in the asteroid?

survival of those with the most favourable adaptations to their local environment so that they last longer so that they can pass on their genes.

[i]Where did they come from?[/i]

biogenic graphite (about 3.5mYa)

Observational bias - we just happen to live on the world where intelligent beings evolved from the slime due to random mutations caused by cosmic radiation. Other worlds where that hasn't happened don't have beings to ask how evolution happened.

biogenic graphite

Does that mean the recent expansion of carbon in bicycle manufacture could be the undoing of the human race?

Will a scratch to the lacquer, an errant bead of sweat and a murky garage herald the dawn of a new era?

sorry, that should be 3.5 billion, not million Ya

apologies

Enjoy this, especially the bits about dinosaurs:
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/17/5_completely_insane_things_christian_fundamentalists_are_teaching_their_kids/

As far as origin of life research goes, the RNA world hypothesis is still top dog. Few years ago, a guy in Manchester published the most convincing picture yet of a nucleotide synthesis under prebiotic conditions. Approaching from the other end, there's a lot of progress in demonstrating oligoRNA self-replication. So if we can meet in the middle, with some plausible prebiotic assembly of an oligonucleotide, we could have all the pieces in place.

Seems crazy to say, but origin of life research is not that interesting in the main. Very hard to do good science in such an open ended area, where it's hard to be wrong. It does attract some phenomenal minds, though.

One interesting question to consider is that if an asteroid hadn't wiped out the dinosaurs would they have evolved into a higher species or would their presence on the earth have inhibited the evolution of man in some way?

I studied genetics as a degree, it took most of us a while to abandon the logic that there is a continual sort of higher species end game with evolution. Once you accept that a bacterium that exclusively inhabits the lower intestine of a spider monkey is 'as evolved' as a dolphin it makes a bit more sense.

Some dinosaurs were around for a VERY long time from a species point of view, if they'd evolved to perfectly fill a niche, then, unless there was an outside pressure then mutation would not confer advantage.

it took most of us a while to abandon the logic that there is a continual sort of higher species end game with evolution. Once you accept that a bacterium that exclusively inhabits the lower intestine of a spider monkey is 'as evolved' as a dolphin it makes a bit more sense.

This. If dino's hadnt been wiped out something else may have happend differently. Flowering plants only evolved duringvthe time of dino's which always amazes me

We don't know, basically.

Anyhow, have you booked in with the bloody doctor yet??

Don't make me bump that post again 🙂

Flowering plants only evolved duringvthe time of dino's which always amazes me

Yes, if you watch Dinosaur Train you'll see that some of the time periods the ground is just covered in dirt instead of grass.. cos grass is a flowering plant (angiosperm)

The ones that missed the ark died out. That's why there are no unicorns. Apparently.

They exist, they're just ring-fenced.

What blows my mind is that each individual (no matter how stupid) is the pinnacle of billions of years of evolution!

What blows my mind is that each individual (no matter how stupid) is the pinnacle of billions of years of evolution!

And back to asteroids, no-one knows if that was the cause of dino-demise, it's just one theory. Super-volcanos, disease and other things in my little girls dinosaur book mention that I can't remember right now.

Ummmm...
[img] [/img]

Evolution is not actually that effective a mechanism in terms of preserving a specific species in that 99.9% of all the species that have ever lived are now extinct.

I think the dinosaurs were already well on their way out before the meteor struck. It was global climate change that did it - the meteor strike just finished them off.

I wouldn't say that every individual is the peak of evolution. In nature not many individuals get the opportunity to pro-create as the females select only the best individuals, so usually only a small percentage of individuals from each generation get the chance to continue their gene line and an even smaller percentage of those will survive to pro-create their gene line. Hence over many generations the species as a whole develop more of the attributes the female of the species find so appealing. So the majority of individuals are not at the peak of evolution. Humans are obviously different. Plenty of ugly and 'inferior' people get to continue their gene lines - usually at 3am on a Saturday morning down some alleyway next to a local Wetherspoons. So the human species in theory is being diluted with lower quality genes - so not survival of the fittest, but then again we don't have to fight Sabre Toothed Tigers anymore so no need for us to be the best specimens of our species. Of course Sweden is an exception where everyone seems to be perfect physical specimens. Maybe the Swedes will inherit the earth when the next big Meteor strikes.

What blows my mind is that each individual (no matter how stupid) is the pinnacle of billions of years of evolution!

What blows my mind is that each individual (no matter how stupid) is the pinnacle of billions of years of evolution!

...and that we are all built from products of the big bang.

Or we are all made from star dust.

...and that we are all built from products of the big bang.

(Maybe)

Or we are all made from star dust.

^ I like that theory, you can sprinkle some midi-chlorians in there for good measure

Although some of us have more agile minds than others it is interesting to note that scientists are now hypothesizing that the human brain might be the most complex mechanism in the entire universe.
Reminds me, I must try and use mine more often...

By accident - literally.

and that we are all built from products of the big bang.

Stars create new elements in their cores by squeezing elements together in a process called nuclear fusion. First, stars fuse hydrogen atoms into helium. Helium atoms then fuse to create beryllium, and so on, until fusion in the star's core has created every element up to iron. Iron is the last element stars create in their cores, and a kiss of death for any star with the the mass to make it to this point. As astronomer Robert Kirshner of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics describes it, "Once a star has built an iron core, there is no way it can generate energy by fusion. The star, radiating energy at a prodigious rate, becomes like a teenager with a credit card. Using resources much faster than can be replenished, it is perched on the edge of disaster."
But the edge of disaster for these massive stars is the threshold of life for the rest of the periodic table. In a star's last second of life, its core compacts so tightly that it becomes as dense as an atomic nucleus. When no more matter can squeeze into the core, the star explodes with the energy of an octillion (1027) atomic bombs. In this violent explosion, more than half the elements on the periodic table are born. Intense heat from the explosion catalyzes nuclear reactions that were not possible in the core. Escaping elements are bombarded with neutrons, which split inside the nucleus into protons and electrons, generating new unique elements. Iron turns into gold, gold turns into lead, and so on until uranium, the heaviest naturally star-born element, is forged from the ashes.
This spectacular shower of life and death creates everything. Well, almost everything. There are another 27 elements on the periodic table after uranium that were not created by stars. Some elements are produced in trace amounts by the decay of other elements. But even the long radioactive decay chain is not enough to produce the ultra-heavy elements at the end of the periodic table. The periodic table would have ended altogether if scientists had not pushed the boundaries of natural physics and ventured deeper into the world of super heavy elements.

Probably about time for some pillars of creation:

[img] [/img]
[url= http://htwins.net/scale2/ ]
Big buggers ain't they[/url]!!

most of the history of life (like 3 billion years or so) was single cell organisms blobbing around as they couldn't make more energy than that required just to survive, then one day two cells got funky and we got mitochondria and boom!

Life is just mobile chemistry. It starts as soon as the conditions are right. This guy recreated the 'primeval soup' type stuff and got the basic building blocks of life within a coupe of days:

[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment ](Missing) Link[/url]

Judging by the clagnuts regularly hanging from arse crack hair I'd say evolution still has some way to go yet (stupid design)

it's always said that things evolved over millennia into the life forms we see today, but how?

i want answers (please

Read "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins.

very interesting views/theories. it is one of those questions that really hurts my brain (not just me either).

amazing how this universe has evolved.

bearnecessities 😳 i still haven't/keep putting it off.i will have to give myself a good slap (on my facial cheeks/not the others 😳

Hmm. Not impressed!

Read that other 'embarrassing' thread again mate, get some perspective and then pick up the phone...like, today.

Please.

Of course now we can shape our environment to suit us evolution is pretty shagged.

The universe didn't evolve. The universe has formed according to the laws of nature. Life on Earth has evolved - many different species evolving from the same source organism. But both topics are fascinating and completely blow your mind.

Here's a related question...

Has our evolution slowed down now that modern medicine is keeping the idiots alive?

Well my friend from Nigeria says Evolution is all nonsense because everybody knows that the Lord created the world about 4000 years ago in six days and on the seventh he rested.

When teased about fossils, carbon dating and all that stuff he retorts that it was all put there to test our faith in the Bible.

Aaah, the legacy of our empire building. That and monied US Christian Fundamentalists really screwing this planet up.

Bum.

Has our evolution slowed down now that modern medicine is keeping the idiots alive?

nope.

Now you're raising the question of memetics rather than genetics. Very interesting stuff.

Does this explain why Chris Evans has replaced Jeremy Clarkson on TG?

OP - you may be confusing evolution with abiogenesis. It is well-established how the former happens, not so much the latter.

[url] https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Abiogenesis [/url]

Though physical evolution takes longer, with current communication, our understanding evolves as we are introduced to different possibilities to explore, for example:

If we (and the entire universe) is made of stardust, [url= http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/08/10-scientific-studies-that-prove-consciousness-can-alter-our-physical-material-world/ ]can we interact with the universe beyond the physical[/url]?

Nikola Tesla said it best, “the day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence. To understand the true nature of the universe, one must think it terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”

[url= http://cdn.filmschoolrejects.com/images/men-who-stare-header.jp g" target="_blank">http://cdn.filmschoolrejects.com/images/men-who-stare-header.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

And back to asteroids, no-one knows if that was the cause of dino-demise, it's just one theory. Super-volcanos, disease and other things in my little girls dinosaur book mention that I can't remember right now.

[img] [/img]

the day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence. To understand the true nature of the universe, one must think it terms of energy, frequency and vibration

That has been going on for some time although the universe is complex. There are things that can be understood on the quantum level but some things need to be thought about on the classical level. Where the "cool stuff" at the minute is in the areas that blur the boundaries of the two which is why people get so excited about nano technology - Personally this area lead me into statistical thermodynamics and so I hastily retreated back to polymers.

the day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence. To understand the true nature of the universe, one must think it terms of energy, frequency and vibration

That makes no sense.

If we (and the entire universe) is made of stardust, can we interact with the universe beyond the physical?

Wot? Everything is the physical, by definition. Or did you mean the tangible. Different things.

Not sure what stardust has to do with it though. Nothing magical about stardust, it's just actual dust from a long way away.

PS that article is hilarious. The author is writing about science, but has no clue about it.

[pedantry] Only hydrogen and helium exist from the big bang the rest of the elements are made from Stars [ fussion then explosion] so we are literally made from star dust

OP needs to watch "[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/programmes/schedules/this_week ]Your inner fish - an evolution story[/url]" on IPlaywer

We are made form what was made from what was there after the big bang 😉

Happy now ?

Aye. But...

This book is good:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Greatest-Show-Earth-Evolution/dp/055277524X

How the process started is a more interesting question, as life doesn't just spontaneously start, and the book talks about this as well.

Plenty of ugly and 'inferior' people get to continue their gene lines

That is a ridiculous statement, who made you spokesman of the master race? 😆

Everything is the physical, by definition

What about dreams, thoughts and emotions, to name but a few?

Consciousness transcends the physical and according to some, can transcend space and time...

Life is just mobile chemistry. It starts as soon as the conditions are right. This guy recreated the 'primeval soup' type stuff and got the basic building blocks of life within a coupe of days: (Missing) Link

The problem with a guy being able to create the building blocks of life here and now is that the atmosphere is abundant with all kinds of little beasties, wriggling and jiggling for dudes with a microscope to find.

Leave a cheese sandwich out for a while and see how much life sprouts from it.

To really get a handle on the problem, we have to consider that if the commonly accepted theory of the big bang is correct, at one point there was NOTHING.

What about dreams, thoughts and emotions, to name but a few?

Consciousness transcends the physical and according to some, can transcend space and time..

I think I've managed to apply a bit of context to some of your posts now.

You do know that its chemicals and electricity don't you?

You do know that its chemicals and electricity don't you?

But is it [i]just[/i] chemicals and electricity?

I don't [i]know[/i] and neither do you, you just think you know, because that's what someone told you...

By that same logic, we are but ugly bags of mostly water...

And the universe is just loads of rocks n stuff of varying temperature

Somehow though, those descriptions lack depth and dare I say it, life.