[Closed] Everyone drives like a muppet apart from me

For the record, I'm a rubbish driver.
I'm a crap runner and cyclist too 😀

Penis extensions to the opinionated.

That's why they get upset.

I think you will find it's a thing called confirmation theory, people start to regard the way they drive as safe based on not having an accident despite carrying out dangerous manouevres, but because they repeatedly get away with the risk taking it confirms to them they are ok.

I would like it noted I did not claim to be a good driver in my responses on that thread, but I did point out that more people claim to be above average which is statistically impossible, as at best most people can be just average.

Be also interesting to know of those replying how many have undertaken any further training.

Baz Lurhman put confrimation theory more succinctly benji. 😉

And it's a lot easier to notice driving that's worse than yours than driving that's better than yours. A lot of it's about awareness, and if you don't have that awareness, you're not going to see it. You'll just see a load of people driving worse than you.

I did point out that more people claim to be above average which is statistically impossible

coincedentally - I'm about to order this.....anyone already read it?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Traffic-drive-what-says-about/dp/0141027398

[img] [/img]

Maybe when people claim to be good drivers they should say how many points they have and how many insurance claims they've submitted.

im a professional driver, therefore I have demonstrated on several occasions to the dsa that I can drive to a high standard (4 driving tests, all passed at the first attempt).
ive never had an accident in the car or bike, although I have had a couple of non blame scrapes in the bus.
I have no points on my licence, and I have never had any.
I would class my skills as average, I get tired and make mistakes the same as everyone else does.
+1 nedrapiers comments above, we all notice driving worse than ours.

...more people claim to be above average which is statistically impossible...

Most people have got more than the average number of limbs.

The book is written by a yank, so when he talks about. Right and left lanes, they are the other way in UK, took me a while to work it out

I'm an alright driver, allround. [i]Rubbish[/i] at reversing. I consider myself above average but only because I have a really low opinion of the average- I'd like to be better and I'd like just about everyone else to be better. But I've got about a hundred thousand miles in various quick and slow cars and motorbikes, not a conviction or a claim, for whatever [i]that's[/i] worth.

FWIW I think if you cycle on the road much in busy places it's impossible not to have a low opinion of other road users. Every couple of days someone'll pull some outright dangerous maneouvre but it's the background-level of basic incompetence and disinterest that gets under my skin.

All frivers make mistakes from time to time, you only notice mistakes and there are lots of cars. A good number are complete numpties too.

I'm generally good, but I have made some terrible mistakes in my time and only narrowly avoided a big smash, and once certain death.

I think these experiences make me a better driver. And a lucky one.

For the record, I'm a rubbish driver.
I'm a crap runner and cyclist too

We have much in common.

People don't remember the thousands of well driven cars they see. They remember the couple of idiots. Making them above average.
Iirc, 97% think they're above average drivers.

I suppose I was wondering what it was about cars, more than any other area if your life, that brings out what must be an unrealistically high opinion of yourself and unrealistically low opinion of everyone else. Maybe it's because they effectively endow you with a superpower, as in the ability to ridiculously fast?

Question for you then- how many people who consider themselves bad drivers will post in a driving thread?

Try just driving round the A1M/M25 roundabout. I can pick the right lane, no one else can, therefore I must be above average 😉

Everyone's perception of being a good driver is different. Northwind mentions having 100,000 miles under his belt as an indication of experience; to some drivers that's 2 or 3 years driving! The one thing I notice as I get older is that I drive more slowly, read potential dangers better and drive accordingly. To a lot of younger drivers that makes me a bad driver because I'm holding them up; their reactions are quicker and they're invincible. Me, I've been to too many funerals. A lot of drivers believe good car handling skills make you a good driver. On the track maybe but not on the road, it requires a whole lot more to drive safely on the road.
Another thing I've noticed over the years is the plethora of road signs advising/instructing what to do next. People don't have to read the road any more, it's like driving by numbers! And, when something goes wrong it's always someone elses' fault!
I often cringe and give myself a good talking to at some of the stupid things I still do though. Maybe that's the problem, even when we learn by ours and others mistakes, we're too stupid to remember what we've learnt and still (occasionally!) drive like a muppet.

psling has it.

The older I get, the more I realise how rubbish I was and how much better I can get. I've had only one minor bump that was my fault in almost thirty years of driving but I still don't think I'm a great driver.

My guess you can claim as if you had seen the big picture about driving only if you had driven all types of vehicles, bicycles, motorbikes, cars, trucks and buses. Not only on A roads, but on motorway and in heavily congested with badly parked vehicles in busy highstreets. Inevitably you will see whats driving is all about and how it differs from -single category- champions of express comuting with best and always right attitude to actually sensible and safe drivers.
Those in the know would never proclaim themselve as best or higher echelon drivers. We all do mistakes, sometimes mistakes can lead to small scrapes and sometimes to very fatal consequences.

. A lot of drivers believe good car handling skills make you a good driver. On the track maybe but not on the road, it requires a whole lot more to drive safely on the road.

There's a pilot axiom that goes something along the lines of -
"The superior pilot uses their superior judgement to avoid using their superior skills"

I think a lot of drivers could not care less, and a lot of others do not know (and even if they did, would come over all defensive).

On my speed awareness course 14 out of the 16 freely admitted 75 - 80 was their normal motorway speed . Only me and a girl said 65 on most motorways , and only 1 person said they drive slower in the wet .
Country lanes in NSL all but 1 person said 60+ .
1 Guy actually thought cars had right of way over pedestrians
Me . Im below average . I dont concentrate enough , get distracted and my mind wanders . I get angry with muppetry far too easily , and detest seeing other car drivers being ****ish towards cyclists.

Kimi went off in practise at this weeks grand prix. Ran out of talent was his quote.

Generally for two main reasons:

1) If your not racing it's an entirely subjective assessment.
2) The examiner is also the pupil

So, when asked "Are you are good driver" pretty much anyone can answer "yes".

Compare that to a similar skills game, playing snooker. If someone asks you "can you play snooker well" then immediately you have a frame of reference ( geddit 😉 ) that is objective. If you pot more balls than your opponent, you are better than them. No simple system of driving skill determination exists unfortunately. (well actually it does, but most people have never done it so it may as well not exist)

I've ready traffic.

The best bit is where it explains why, upon seeing a "lane closed ahead" sign it is idiotic to immediately try to get into the remaining lanes if your lane is still clear.

It also confirms that the special kind of tossers who think it is their duty to block said clear lane for everyone else can **** right off back to wherever their misplaced sense of supiriorty came from.

I [u] hope[/u] but do not represent myself to be better than average. mainly because I find the south such a depressing place to be on the road. I also actively Work on improving my driving by focussing on anything I think is becoming an area of complacency or weakness. This might be in response to a situation I have encountered or by just trying to be dispassionate about how I have driven over a period of time. Eg I might spend a week targeting blind spot Checks if I think I have become a little lax or fuel economy if I think my planning skills need a tweak.

By doing this I aim to keep my driving up to a standard that keeps me and everyone else I encounter as safe as possible. Do I care if that's better or worse than average? No I care that I drive to the best standard I can and that I keep learning.

I'm driving right now.

Multitasking - that's the sign of a good driver.

Only if you're eating a buttie

I must be closing in on a million miles of driving, have no points (had 3 years ago) and have had a minor 50/50 bump at a traffic Island.

Does that make me a good driver? No idea - it makes me an experienced driver though and the majority of the time I use that experience to drive well imo. Sometimes I don't drive to the best of my ability though - not 100% concentration, tiredness, distraction, maybe the odd bit of recklessness. I'm not perfect at many other things either.

This place is full of sanctimonious tits though who'd have you believe that they are model citizens, so no wonder that they seem to think that their driving is faultless and everyone else's isn't.

The reason everyone thinks they are good is that if they didn't, they would improve. The real issue is what people consider acceptable. And the deeper issue is lack of understanding of the issues.

The pro speeders on the other thread are a good example of that.

I would consider myself a good driver although I do have my moments like everyone.

I've passed my test in 6 categories and done numerous courses that include Skid cradle instructor, driving instructor and blue light training. The main thing that all them have taught me is to read the road ahead, that's something that many drivers cannot do. You have to do this for other drivers on the road because they are driving with their heads up their asses and you have to anticipate their next move.

You do on the other hand, have many drivers that have total disregard for other road users.

As I say, I'm not whiter than white and I have my faults, I got 6 points for speeding once!

And the deeper issue is lack of understanding of the issues.

i think i am an ok driver, no where near perfect, i don't think anyone is. People are people and do make mistakes.

I just despair at the "gods" who never make mistakes, who multitask, etc.

Everyday i see drivers do things that are either dangerous, illegal or often both. How many drivers actually drive to the conditions? Maybe i am over cautious in fog? but when cars come past at 80-90 with seriously crap visability you have to wonder.

Nah, Charlie, it's way deeper than that. The issue, I mean.

I think it stems from knowing what your doing but not necessarily knowing what others are doing. Pull out into a gap barely big enough nailing the throttle, you are a driving god, but from the rest of the worlds viewpoint you are a bit of a douche. Multiply that kind of action by several times a journey (both ways, positive view of your own skill, negative every time someone does it to you) and it's easy to see why some people who really are dangerous start to believe they're better than average.

Me? I'm pretty crap, I occasionally tailgate (well, more refuse to brake till the last minute, if the traffic slows I'll go easy in the expectation that it'll pick up again before I reach it, and if it doesn't, then brake harder) and have on occasions driven whilst dangerously tired.

Don't speed (much), do stick to 65-70 on the motorway, do leave big gaps (hence being able to brake late then get accused of being too close), do actually check the car over before big journeys.

psling - Member

Everyone's perception of being a good driver is different. Northwind mentions having 100,000 miles under his belt as an indication of experience; to some drivers that's 2 or 3 years driving!

Yeah, to be fair I thought the OP had asked for that info, that's what comes of doing two things at once. My history is nowt in car terms but it's pretty unusual on fast bikes these days.

My dad insists he must be a great driver because he's driven a million miles, he did half it in the distant past and the other half on motorways and now he keeps driving into things in Tesco car parks.

Nah, Charlie, it's way deeper than that. The issue, I mean.

It's turtles all the way down

Good drivers bad drivers, it's all subjective.

What boils my wee wee is drivers who don't know the basics of the Highway Code!

They are who I classify as bad drivers.

^^ and speedophiles.

The reason everyone thinks they are good is that if they didn't, they would improve. The real issue is what people consider acceptable. And the deeper issue is lack of understanding of the issues.

Can you really tell what everyone thinks? That's soooo cool. If you don't mind, could you tell me why you know who is always thrusting her upper junk in my face? (not sure how your superpower works, but i can provide names if that helps narrow it down a bit).

I've had three bumps in the last two months, does that make me a bad driver?

In all three cases, I was stationary and had been for a while when someone else drove into me. First was in a tight passing place on a country road, Audi Q5 edging past me, and despite me sounding the horn to warn him he still drove into the side of me; second was waiting to turn out of a T-junction, young lad took the corner way too fast then gunned it so hard that he fishtailed into the side of me; third was country lanes again, boy racer coming the other way had his wheels off the floor coming over a hump-backed bridge, ricocheted off the wall and bounced into me.

I think I'd respectfully suggest that this is not a suitable yardstick for measuring whether one is a "good" driver.

Everyone's perception of being a good driver is different. Northwind mentions having 100,000 miles under his belt as an indication of experience; to some drivers that's 2 or 3 years driving!

My first year as a courier I did 117k miles 😐

(No crashes or speeding fines 😉 )

That doesn't make me a good driver though - it's my awesomeness that does that 😀

How define a bad driver..

When passengers tell you to slow down, look out,etc

When passengers go quiet when you overtake, brake, change lanes etc.

When others drive themselves rather than get in a car with you.

When your passenger is white knuckling the dashboard,coathook or you spot their right foot 'braking'

Seen any of that? Congratulations, you are a shit driver.

How define a bad driver..

I score 4 out of 4, do I win a prize?

cheez0 - Member

Seen any of that? Congratulations, you are a shit driver.

Or you've given my mum a lift.

Anyone can make a mistake, maybe reverse into a bollard once or twice, but it's the people who do dangerous stuff like intimidating other drivers by tailgating. That's no mistake, that's bad driving.

40 years of driving with no crashes but still learning to drive
as you see something new all the time .
a few close shaves mind .

there seems to be a perception that you can insult a mans wife , Kill his first born , but you cant criticize his driving .

We have a few long drives each year to go biking and who ever is driving is quite happy for the other 4 to look out for stuff and mention if anything happens in front rather than be scared to say owt .

How define a bad driver.. When passengers tell you to slow down, look out,etc When passengers go quiet when you overtake, brake, change lanes etc. When others drive themselves rather than get in a car with you. When your passenger is white knuckling the dashboard,coathook or you spot their right foot 'braking' Seen any of that? Congratulations, you are a shit driver.

That's a nervous passenger!

I'd consider myself a reasonably competent and safe real road driver....I'm very careful don't speed or tailgate and have done a lot of miles without accident or conviction. I'm also pretty handy at reversing including reversing trailers. As for good high speed handling skills/identifying oversteer or under steer/ generally joining in with how a car drives and accelerates etc type crap that bloody blokes partake in then I'm pretty shit. I've yet to find a need for heel toeing or left foot braking in real life mind!

Can you really tell what everyone thinks?

Of course not. Not sure what the rest of the paragraph of sarcasm was meant to achieve either btw.

My post was logical conjecture put forward as a possible explaination to the OP's question. Seemed reasonable to me. I can't think of a better reason why most people do indeed think they are great drivers.

I've yet to find a need for heel toeing or left foot braking in real life mind!

Heel toe is useful when your syncromesh is knackered 🙂

Inttestingly ( or maybe not) I always think I'm a better car driver than motorbikerist due to having done all that misspent youth stuff in a car not on a bike but inreality having slid off roads and thru corners, crashed into heges and generally being a **** in a car doesnt really help much.

Dont worry Couger you may be a shit driver but you are a quite wonderful mod 😉

And why are so many drivers coming through on amber? Especially when someone else is waiting to turn?

interesting point of law I found out the other day..

you are already breaking the law if you drive through an amber.
(not just the red)

The day I consider myself to be a good driver will be the day I bin it into a tree on the A697 just South of Coldstream.

In Ireland we have a saying:

Green means go.
Amber means speed up.
Red means first three cars. 🙂

I'm good enough to know there are better drivers, especially at speed. I've only ever had a car go off the road once, when a rear tyre went out at 60, entering a dual carriageway while overtaking a Mini. Not sure who was most shaken when I went across the front of his car at 90 degrees, came to rest on the wide grass verge, facing the right way, having just missed a large road sign, with the car ticking over in neutral.
Driving in snow, I've never yet lost control, on regular tyres too, so I know I'm at least competent.
Unlike the learner in a V6 Vitara I followed from Bath today. Coming out of Box, the idiot was weaving right out to the white line, then suddenly swerving violently to the left, then doing the same, repeatedly, at 25mph in a 50 limit.
Until I overtook when the road cleared, and he/she/it stuck their clog in, trying to keep up. Not a chance, I wanted as much space as possible between me and that eedjit. Not sure I fancy their chances passing their test... 😯

Saw a few good drivers on the M4 yesterday who had awareness of what was going on around them and managed to correctly anticipate the actions of those around them. eg when travelling in lane 2 they noitced (before it even indicated) that the big van towing a car trailer was gaining on the lorry in lane 1 so they moved out into lane 3 allowing the van/trailer to move out into lane 2 without having to brake going up the hill. Unfortunately this was also balanced out by drivers with their head so far up their arses they had no idea what was going on around them.

I'd like to think that I'm a considerate driver, not particularly skillful (rubbish at parallel parking) but aware of what's going on.

I was disaponted at the crane divers on TV's Crane Gang program, when they were told they had to go on a cyclists awareness course they all moaned and grumbled, none of them took the course seriously and to quote one of them "we're professional drivers, it's the idiot cyclists who need to go on a course". (If you ever need something lifting, don't choose Ainscough cranes!)

I don't think it's nervous passengers, at my wedding, the best man's speech did refer to my driving as getting a lift with Ben is the closest you'll come to being kidnapped without actually being kidnapped.

There were a lot of murmurs of approval in the audience....

piemonster - Member
For the record, I'm a rubbish driver.
I'm a crap runner and cyclist too
We have much in common.

WE ARE LEGION!

[i]I don't think it's nervous passengers, at my wedding, the best man's speech did refer to my driving as getting a lift with Ben is the closest you'll come to being kidnapped without actually being kidnapped.[/i]

I like that quote & can echo the sentiment having been a passenger with some of my friends 🙂

Conversely, I don't think I am a particularly good driver* & perhaps my consideration might ebb a bit towards hesitation, which isn't a great driving trait to have. However, I do seem to notice other peoples bad driving, particularly in the city where it seems no one understands road markings. Dunno about other cities but in Cardiff chatting on the mobile whilst bimbling along seems to be the order of the day.

*except my parallel parking which is pretty shit hot