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Can't find many options, so what are your recommendations? Or convince me that layering is the way to go for casual use not just sport.
This is for everyday use, which for me means low-intensity short walks and shortish periods standing around in 0-12 degrees. Walking round the block on flat ground, walking to the train station, waiting for the bus. Wearing jeans jumper and t-shirt, not getting sweaty. Walking the dog type stuff, just without the dog.
I want one jacket rather than layering a waterproof over an insulated jacket. For convenience plus I'd almost always be taking a waterproof anyway with the weather here.
Montane Duality (or non-Lite, ignore the RRP) seemed to fit the bill, but the sizing doesn't work for me.
Someone recommended the OMM Barrage but the waterproof outer is their superlight race one, I doubt it'd last many years on casual use. Also I feel wearing OMM (Rab and Arc’teryx too) around the place while not actually doing outdoor sports is a bit naff.
Mountain Equipment Triton and Rab Valiance are down so too warm, also too expensive for my needs.
So I think the criteria is:
- 60-80g synthetic insulation
- waterproof for an hour, drip dry
- durable outer fabric, more than 20D
- single-way zip ideally
- not massively bulky
- no baffles or grid all over it, it's too fashionable
- doesn't look like I'm dressed for Mont Blanc
- definitely not one of those zip together fleece and waterproof things
Thanks in advance!
edit - moved to chat forum!
Buffalo Belay jacket. With hood option.
Breathable and feels good to wear.
Windproof
Not too bad in rain, dries quickly.
But def not a rain jacket in heavy rain for a long time.
Pretty tough everyday jacket I use outdoors all year round , pretty much outside all day at work in Scotland . Two on them in very sub zero temps and water proof over the top in long downpours/ snow.
For general use its perfect for me too.
Please buy this so I can't
https://www.ldmountaincentre.com/walk-hike-c1/clothing-c2/down-insulated-jackets-vests-c114/fjallraven-nuuk-parka-p44110
Second Buffalo, with a cheap Millets Peter Storm that can be put on over the top in heavy rain. Until I finally got issued a decent breathable work hi-viz, I wore a Buffalo Special 6 with a Helly Lifa as a base layer and a Peter Storm and high-viz right through the winter, outdoors for ten hours a day, moving cars around the workshops and outdoor storage areas. The Buffalo would just be slightly damp on the outside and I’d be perfectly dry and comfortable after a whole day of heavy rain. <br />There’s no proofing to brake down, and the Peter Storm is cheap enough to chuck in the car boot for emergency situations when it starts to leak and buy another one. <br />The whole lot cost less than a s****y Goretex jacket, and apart from the cheapy Millets jacket will last for donks without worrying about reproofing issues. <br />The only downside is that the Buffalo is a smock type, so has to be dragged over your head, but I’ve never had any issues taking it off when I’ve stopped at a pub during a winter walk.
Alpkit 0hiro is synthetic and a waterproof membrane but not taped seams. I got it for using on a Finland winter trip (with extra layers if really cold). Maybe a bit warm at 12 degrees but great nearer freezing.
Was also tempted by this which was mostly wool insulated (but probably not waterproof enough).
Pound for pound, the warmest and most waterproof jacket I've got. Lollipop ladies swear by them
I have an Alpkit Ohiro also, it’s pretty good as above, and fits the bill. I have a collection of Frahm jackets that cover everyday life and dog walking, however when it’s really cold I go for the Alpkit, or my old Montane Extreme.
I've had one of these for 4? years, and it will last one more winter. The liner is not too thick or bulky but still warm. It doesn't look too technical.
North Face has been amazing with warranty exchanges imvhe.
Decathlon. their quechua and forclaz stuff is pretty amazing........ and cheap.
I’ve had one of these for 4? years, and it will last one more winter. The liner is not too thick or bulky but still warm. It doesn’t look too technical.
I had one like that except with a fleece inner. Horrible thing, this might be better. Any time you put it on, the fleece catches and drags up your sweatshirt's sleeves, and the sleeve cuffs of the fleece always ended up sticking out of the waterproof's cuffs. Only way to use it really was to detach them and put them on one after the other.
I do own primaloft jackets.
Warm and versatile, but for me a bit unbreathable for more active use, unless quite cold.
And a bit sweaty.
I have not used a primaloft in heavy rain yet.
A Buffalo Belay has a zip and aka like a normal jacket. Not like the shirts.
Lots of dogs walkers where Paramo...must mean something....!
I do own primaloft jackets.
Warm and versatile, but for me a bit unbreathable for more active use, unless quite cold.
And a bit sweaty.
I have not used a primaloft in heavy rain yet.
A Buffalo Belay has a zip and aka like a normal jacket. Not like the shirts.
I have noticed lots of dogs walkers wear Paramo...must mean something....!
I've got a Jack Wolfskin Troposphere for my general everyday winter jacket, I think it's a couple of years old, it's all good except the popper at the bottom of the flap has gone.
I hunted through many jackets before settling on this - so many jackets have pockets in uncomfortable places, not deep enough to really get your hands in and with openings too small; poor hoods; no inside pockets (the JW fails a little by having the inside pocket right inside, rather than accessed from under the storm flap); horrible cuffs... and so on. It's also a tiny bit short on me, but I'm 6'4" and have a proportionately long back, so this might not be the case for you 😉
Price seems to have gone up a chunk since then, but still available at less silly money if you hunt around the net.
Would a Paramo jacket be warm enough? They’re roughly like a normal waterproof plus a microfleece. Too warm for MTBing unless it’s literally freezing
This isn't a bad call. I had a Paramo Aspira jacket (bought cheap off Sports Pursuits). It was far too warm for summer or mild Autumn/Spring. It was a great jacket but ultimately didn't quite fit right so I sold it on Vinted. I'd definitely have another (in the correct size next time). Might be worth looking here depending on budget https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/paramoseconds
Keela. Very good, underrated jackets Hydron Softshell Jacket for Outdoor Enthusiasts looking for protection (keelaoutdoors.com)
https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_ie/straightline-lifaloft-20-jkt-65787?color=630231
sportspursuit are selling these at €180. I got one a few years ago for the walk to work from the station in the rain type jackets. Thin/light yet really warm, being a ski style it has extra length which I like as it keeps me dryer.
I'd either go to your local TKMaxx and have a browse or check out what's on offer at Sport Pursuit as looks come into it a lot for a casual jacket IMO. I was going to recommend the Columbia jacket I have (from SP) but it's not on their web-site anymore (if you do look at Columbia then IME their jacket sizing is massive, I'm an XXL in t-shits, inc. Columbia ones, but a medium in the jacket I have). It also doesn't have internal pockets which annoys me (hence my interest in this thread as I'm looking for similar, I also want a detachable hood).
Pound for pound, the warmest and most waterproof jacket I’ve got. Lollipop ladies swear by them<br /><br />
I work outdoors year round, tried various options, not found anything better. Got a couple on the go atm, a longer one, and a bomber jacket style one.
Try a Finisterre Borealis. I bought one about 3 yrs ago. It’s been great for local dog walks, nipping to the shops, pub etc. It is lightly quilted by put you can’t see it and it’s waterproof and would meet your hour criteria easily I reckon. It’s warm but not too hot, can be chucked on over a shirt or jumper without having to layer up.
it’s made from recycled stuff for that fuzzy feel good factor and the branding is pretty subtle.
My wife and I got Regatta coats last year. Waterproof, breathable(ish, enough for dog waking anyway), and plenty warm. Cheap too!
I have a Paramo Cascada for winter dog walking and it’s a great coat but you need a fleece or woolly jumper underneath when it’s cold. In deepest winter the Montane Extreme comes out but that coat is very warm and too warm unless it’s well below zero.
Thanks all. Some good recommendations but some are far off the mark (soft shell, 1.2kg ski jacket...).
Would a Paramo jacket be warm enough? They’re roughly like a normal waterproof plus a microfleece. Too warm for MTBing unless it’s literally freezing.
Which one? Or do you mean the Bentu combination?
The Torres Alturo is the only one I see that's both warm and waterproof. Says it's for overlayering, has 133g insulation which will be too much.
Is there some classic Paramo that people mean when they just say "Paramo", as seems to be often done?
Buffalo Belay jacket. With hood option.
Looks good. Not sure about the pile lining, does that make it bulky and is it going to pull up my sweatshirt sleeves every time I put it on. Hard to compare warmth with synthetic options too.
Try a Finisterre Borealis.
Looks promising, but no information about amount of insulation or overall weight.
Pile linings work best next to the skin, well the buffalo/keela system in general. I've had my buffalo for years (army) as well as a cycling one I got for much cheapness as people were too stupid to realise how brilliant it was... they've both had much abuse and still going strong..
I’ve been wearing one of these for the last couple of winters. Waterproof with taped seams and warm.
https://www.hoggs.co.uk/mens/coats-and-jackets/argyll-wp-parka
i bought one of these today in a local trade place. £42
very warm, for a couple of trips to Norway i have planned.
I also have this, which will come out when the clocks change and be the staple for winter dog walks and general use, unless conditions dictate Alpkit Ohiro (active hills) or Montane Extreme (well sub zero).
very expensive, but a worthwhile investment for me as I walk around 10k a day with the dog, every day, and have a number of Frahm coats, all worn regularly, and all lasting well.
https://frahmjacket.com/products/thermal-military-parka
i bought mine awhile back, for a chunk less !
I'd love a knee length version of my Montane Extreme. Bought years ago as a standing around watching my son play football coat and still as good as new.
I've come to the conclusion though that for general use knee length would be much better. I've looked at the Buffalo Parka and Mountain jacket but they only seem to be mid thigh.
Be aware! If you prefer from tones link you'll get no comms and the item will take month to arrive.
I've used active wear group before for cheap kids fleece and bits of uniform, I used them recently for some more such items and ended up going to visa to claim back the money as nothing arrived, they ignored my email asking for an update and on checking trust pilot it seems its now a common problem going on for months. My stuff has now turned up, after 18 or 19 business days not the errrr...3 to 5 they state (maybe 3 to 7)
Be aware! If you prefer from tones link you’ll get no comms and the item will take month to arrive.
just to be clear, i didnt buy from Active wear group. i bought from a trade fixings place at the end of our street.
I got that.
Alpkit has a new waterproof, PrimaLoft-lined jacket, which might be worth a look. Buffalo stuff isn't waterproof, The pile insulation holds very little water as it's hydrophobic and the outer is windproof and water resistant, but none of it is waterproof. It's also cut like a sack. The Montane Extreme stuff is marginally less horrible. Alpkit does a pile/Pertex jacket as well, I think. Anyway, the waterproof PrimaLoft thing:
https://alpkit.com/products/solace-mens
The pile-Pertex type thing:
https://alpkit.com/products/jura-smock-mens?variant=40358910623849
I'm not sure about the obsession with helmet-compatible hoods. I get that some people need them, but the vast majority of people don't, and they're left with a baggy hood that never really fits properly (IME)
Just want to piggyback and say thanks for the contributions as I want a warm, relatively smart winter jacket and some of these are spot on!
Buffalo stuff isn’t waterproof, The pile insulation holds very little water as it’s hydrophobic and the outer is windproof and water resistant, but none of it is waterproof. It’s also cut like a sack.
A few other things put me off too. Thought it unlikely that an old design using primitive fabrics by a small British company would be a good option. Also it's targeted at and popular with people who like camouflage and wearing the same gear as security and military supposedly wear etc.
Solace [Mens]
That may well be it. Have to wait though as I'm not paying £250.
I've been wearing a Revolution Race jacket for the past 3 winters and it's been great. Good fit, warm and waterproof. You can easily find discount codes on social media from their ambassadors. Think I got 30% off via a code
https://www.revolutionrace.co.uk/men/jackets/waterproof-jackets
Which one Bob, Helix?
https://www.revolutionrace.co.uk/men/jackets/winter-jackets/helix-jacket-men
Only insulated waterproof I can find.
No word on insulation weight but overall it's 650g so sounds pretty bulky.
"Would a Paramo jacket be warm enough? They’re roughly like a normal waterproof plus a microfleece. Too warm for MTBing unless it’s literally freezing."
Basically any Paramo waterproof - https://www.paramo-clothing.com/en-gb/explore-range/?attributes=82122064-D94F-4D04-808A-437AFF01F28A,FCBDB5D3-90B7-4766-871F-389AF483A8BE
I've got an Enduro now but briefly had a Helki and before that a Velez smock for years and years and before that I briefly had a Cascada. But they're all pretty similar in warmth.
I'll take this opportunity to shamelessly mention I'm going to be selling an XL Paramo Pajaro when I can be bothered taking the photos.
Used about a dozen times but too warm for me even at dog-walking pace.
Perfect condition £350rrp - £175ish.
As you were.
Helly Manchester
https://www.revolutionrace.co.uk/men/jackets/winter-jackets/helix-jacket-menOnly insulated waterproof I can find.
No word on insulation weight but overall it’s 650g so sounds pretty bulky.
In case it helps anyone - they said 60 gsm on the body and 40 gsm on the arms
Patagonia have just released their warmest waterproof jacket, made entirely from plastics reclaimed from seawater, the Goretex doesn’t use any PFC’s. You won’t like the price, though. It’s around $850…
I've just bought a Didriksons parka and it is FANTASTIC. Super warm and 100% waterproof. A parka is maybe a bit OTT for OP's needs but they do stuff with a more sporty cut, e.g. the Stefan jacket
I've got one of the Alpkit Jura smocks. It's my go to everyday jacket and I've got a lot of options!
Most days, it's for dog walking in all conditions from freezing to 14 degrees. The zips provide great venting. Generally I just wear a t shirt or base layer underneath.
Up in Aviemore this week and I've worn it every day with just a t shirt underneath. Sizing comes up a bit big. I'm normally a medium but opted for a small which gives a slimmer, less bulky look.
The big front pocket is really handy.
I paid £99 for mine in a sale. I won't hesitate to replace it when it wears out.
I've just scratched an itch and bought a Frahm thermal military parka
Expensive, but the quality is everything it's hyped up to be.
Not sure how waterproof it is, but was perfect at the footy on Wednesday night in freezing temps with just a single layer underneath
Terrible pic below
AFKASTR earlier 👆... 😉
(I've got one like it but a cheap knock off sans fur)
what size did you get? how tall are you?<br />DrP
I'm 5'11 and 12.5st (not sure of chest measurement, but reasonably broad chest/shoulders) slim build otherwise.
Originally went large as that's the only one that came back into stock. Had previously tried a mates tan coloured one on and it seemed ok, but felt I could go smaller.
Decided I wasn't happy when it came, so sent it back and then a medium popped back up, presumably a return.
Medium is perfect for me and not snug at all
I got one of these.. my everyday jacket in the coldness.
bit like an old Defender, it just seems to fit every occasion.
<br />Also have a completely unlined one for summer
Keep that for best and this for messing about:
https://forcesuniformandkit.co.uk/collections/jackets-and-smocks-all/products/austrian-army-m65-gore-tex-jacket
Medium is perfect for me and not snug at all
Ok, cheers..
at 5'10" and 71kg, med would suit me fine..<br />Shame they've only black in stock...
DrP
^^^ I am a little shorter at 5ft 9, chest 41, and same weight and have a large. It fits well with a shirt and jumper beneath. I could fit in a medium also I reckon. Great coat !
Regatta Ronin - very warm. Tried recently in a howling gale.
Have a look at the Ayacucho winter parker at Cotswold. Mines warm, dry and breathable enough for flat dog walks and standing at the side of Scottish football pitches on a Sunday morning in winter
I went for one of these recently
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/me n's-warm-padded-ski-jacket-900-warm-grey-and-black/_/R-p-339367?mc=8802780
usually have an alpkit puffer but wanted something waterproof. Very warm and seems good value. Had to go up a size from my normal.
A few other things put me off too. Thought it unlikely that an old design using primitive fabrics by a small British company would be a good option. Also it’s targeted at and popular with people who like camouflage and wearing the same gear as security and military supposedly wear etc.<br /><br />
If by that you mean Buffalo, Pertex isn’t a primitive fabric, they got the design right first time thirty-odd years ago and haven’t needed to change it, and AFAIK, they don’t do camo. Mine’s black. The military use a similar design with a lightweight hood folded into the collar, but they’re a sort of olive drab, with a lightweight fleece liner. They’re fine, and cheap, I’ve got one for cool weather, it’s more of a wind-shirt. There are other, brighter colours available from Buffalo, and the idea I believe originated with smock tops worn by the Paras and troops fighting in the Arctic. <br />The only issue I have with them is they’re not the easiest to get on and off, being a smock top, having to drag it over yer head in a pub is a bit awkward; so’s putting it on again.
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTRFull Member
@iaincYou worn yours in the rain? Wondering whether to wear it to the footy or not today
Posted 18 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
Yes, it’s pretty decent, think it’d probably wet through after an hour or 2 of heavy rain, but so far I’ve always stayed dry
Yes, it’s pretty decent, think it’d probably wet through after an hour or 2 of heavy rain, but so far I’ve always stayed dry
Yeah, I wore it. Walked a couple of miles back and forth in Sheffield in medium rain.
Whilst the surface of the coat didn't make any efforts at appearing waterproof, I stayed totally dry
^^^ they really are good ! I have more Frahm jackets than I should have, but they all get worn a lot. I am out with the dog 3 times a day, regardless of weather, and the right jacket increases the fun 🤪
You'd expect them to be good at those prices!
Is there some classic Paramo that people mean when they just say “Paramo”, as seems to be often done?
Most (but not al)of their stuff is kind of the same system in different styles - a wicking lining and a fine pertex like outer and wash-in waterproofing (they do a few that are just the outer shell and no lining sold as a wind-proof). What you chose depends on how casual or active you want to be / look. The velez smocks are more active / outward bound in terms of cut and features, some are more rambler /walking cuts and features, ones like the Halkon and Pajaro are styled and featured a bit like a (better tailored version of) waxed jacket and a bit more casual looking and the pockets are more wallet and keys friendly rather than maps and compass. All those ones perform more or less the same weather and warmth wise but the ones designed more for active sport like the smocks are a bit awkward to wear more casually. All their stuff is much less rustly than most outdoor gear.
Much warmer for low intensity stuff in winter are the Torres jackets that are their version of a down jacket but much easier to care for, much more breathable than previous down jackets I've had and again are wash-in waterproofed so can put up with really miserable weather and even if they wet out dry out again very quick. They come in two versions - Medio and Alturo with the latter being a fair bit warmer still. They are amongst the cheapest jackets they make because they're comparatively very simple without the dozens of little little adjusters that their other jackets have.
Becuase the waterproofing is something you constantly refresh by washing they are long lasting - no membranes to crumble, not taped seams to split. That actually makes them a pretty decent second hand buy - most of my stuff of theirs I bought on ebay
You’d expect them to be good at those prices!
Indeed you would.
I've coveted them for maybe three years and couldn't justify the cost.
Got a bit of cash floating about due to a good year at work, so hit the button.
The quality really is everything it's hyped up to be. It's definitely a coat to last a decade, if not longer
So paramo is like buffalo or snugpak by the sounds?
And just as stylish if you want to wear it to the pub, or to work ( a la the OP )
Paramo is a brand, they sell various types of jackets. Windshirts, fleeces, waterproofs and insulation jackets too.
It's not as simple as saying it's like a Buffalo as they have various types of jackets too.
Buffalo often referred to on here is their pile and pertex offerings. They are not an insulation jacket as such, they are just very warm in use and quite warm when stood around.