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New fridge freezer has arrived and thought I’d look how to turn it on.
In the instructions I came across Sabbath Mode.
Excuse my ignorance but is using your freezer against religious law? I’ve worked with church goers and Jehovah’s Witnesses and never heard of this.
Anyone have any idea what it’s about?
Remarkable, never heard of that!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode
Been a "thing" for at least 25 years. I had appliances in Germany in around 2000 with this feature.
Is it for if you want to fit a full War Pig into it?
"I don't freeze on Shabbos, dude"
Genuine question here.
So why does a fridge need these features to comply with the Sabbath?
Not trolling, genuinely interested.
It’s another pathetic interpretation of some religious mumbo jumbo about not working on an arbitrary day.
Utterly bonkers.
Surely that "Sabbath" mode is the opposite of woke?
Is that "Woke" seem the opposite to me, what you've got there is a secular freezer, keep an eye out in case it joins any marches or starts talking to you about abortion.
Ours has a "holiday mode" which obviously assumes we're on the side of the wealth divide where going on holidays is an option...
You were reading the instructions?
On our new appliances there was both Party mode and Sabbath mode on fridge and freezer. I guess they attempted to create balance there.
It doesn’t need to try to do anything else.
That doesn't stop manufacturers from trying to equip it with wifi and bluetooth and be "smart".
Many years ago a neighbour bought a new VCR (in the days when these were quite expensive things). When you turned it on, a message would scroll across the LCD display (in that weird offset way that old LCD displays that only had the figure 8 could manage) saying "good morning" or "good afternoon".
The instructions helpfully said that this enabled you to interact more positively with your VCR.
Every day's a school day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator
dove1Full Member
It’s another pathetic interpretation of some religious mumbo jumbo about not working on an arbitrary day.
Utterly bonkers.
Or just marketing to try and help them sell more freezers
The Instagram algorithm sometimes feeds me stuff from an orthodox Jewish woman describing things like this. Some of it seems totally bizarre, as the hacks to get around not doing any work on the Sabbath are just as much effort as doing the thing in the first place, eg.;
Excuse my ignorance but is using your freezer against religious law? I’ve worked with church goers and Jehovah’s Witnesses and never heard of this.
I believe jesus once said, "blessed are the tinned goods and pickles in jars, and a pox on refrigeration". This is why it is traditional to gift an unwanted can of unnamed meat from the back of the cupboard for harvest festival.
So why does a fridge need these features to comply with the Sabbath?
There is a Jewish law which says you cant do work on the Sabbath.
Some sects interpret this as pretty much everything including pressing (or in the case of a refrigerator triggering by opening the door) a switch.
So Sabbath mode disables that switch (think for most its just the interior light) so you can open the door without "working".
Not sure if this is the same thing but we are currently building a new care home for Jewish care and they have some frankly strange issues around having technology operating during certain times (most likely Sabbath) which has meant us removing all PIR detection on lights around the building
It’s another pathetic interpretation of some religious mumbo jumbo about not working on an arbitrary day.
Utterly bonkers
Just so you know, it's perfectly fine to be an atheist and not be a dick about it.
And yet they're still called "white goods".
Makes you think, eh?
That's nuts.
I wonder whether the initial intent of "do no work" was to give followers a day off, then over time it's just got mangled so now it's actually creating more work. I'm reasonably confident that Judaism predates domestic electricity.
I'm (re)reading Jasper Fforde's "Shades of Grey" at the moment (which is excellent, BTW). In it the society follows The Rules. One of the Rules is that "children should be given a glass of milk and a smack before bed." Parents were giving their kids a clip round the ear every night for years until someone suggested that maybe it was a typo and should have read "snack."
Ours has a “holiday mode” which obviously assumes we’re on the side of the wealth divide where going on holidays is an option…
Actually it's the opposite of what you're thinking there - it's the freezer that goes on holiday. As appliances have gotten 'smarter' they've also started to unionise.
they’ve also started to unionise.
I didn't know they were ionised to start with. Does that keep food fresher?
I guess there is another perspective on this. If the freezer manufacturers are building in software to manage the device, and they can easily add a program that is useful for even a small number of people then why not? I won't use it, I might think it is a bit silly but it doesn't really impact me at all so so its not for me to get animated about it.
I wonder whether the initial intent of “do no work” was to give followers a day off, then over time it’s just got mangled so now it’s actually creating more work. I’m reasonably confident that Judaism predates domestic electricity.
One of the rules IIRC is about not lighting fires on the Sabbath. When incandescent bulbs came along they were deemed to be 'fire' (which I suppose they are, kinda), so I guess now any electric light = fire = not allowed.
Is not firing a weapon making fire?
Atheist or not, can we for a moment assume that just because you don't know about something, that doesn't automatically mean it's nonsense?
I don't mean the question of whether religion itself is nonsense, that's not what I'm talking about here.
For example those who've heard "work" is forbidden on the Jewish sabbath and therefore ridicule things like this without stopping to think what "work" might actually mean in context, beyond a simple literal interpretation of the bible verse (which, simplistically speaking, is actually forbidden in Judaism).
Genuine question here.
So why does a fridge need these features to comply with the Sabbath?
Not trolling, genuinely interested.
Religious Jews don't directly (eg, flicking a switch) use electricity on the sabbath (because complicated) so this feature disables things like the light or fan coming on when you open the door. Very useful, especially in modern fridges with LED lights because the old solution to just remove the bulb is no longer possible.
One of the rules IIRC is about not lighting fires on the Sabbath. When incandescent bulbs came along they were deemed to be ‘fire’ (which I suppose they are, kinda), so I guess now any electric light = fire = not allowed.
Along these lines, partly. And down the rabbit hole we go 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat
An old workmate used to be paid by a couple of Jewish families to turn the lights on and light a fire on the Sabbath when he was a boy back in the the day (probably late1940s or 50s). He said it paid pretty well for the amount of effort.
I went down this rabbit hole and had my mind blown some years back when I had a Jewish flatmate.
With loopholes like getting other people to turn on lights, it always felt to me like he was trying to "trick god". *
But his opinion was along the lines of: god wrote the rules perfectly, therefore god left the loopholes intentionally, therefore using the loopholes is explicitly allowed.
* there's another good trick which i can't remember exactly for making hot drinks. Something about moving the hot water from one type of container to another to another in order to bypass the rule about not cooking things.
edit- think this is the hot drink trick https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/58221
Actually it’s the opposite of what you’re thinking there – it’s the freezer that goes on holiday.
My fridge freezer has a holiday mode but if I recall it just turns ofethe freezer compartment and leaves the fridge compartment running... Or maybe it's vivea versa I can't remember.
So totally pointless... If I ever go away long enough I'll have to turn the whole thing off anyway...
used to be paid by a couple of Jewish families to turn the lights on and light a fire on the Sabbath
Is management and delegation not work then? My pay slip and job description disagrees lol!
The best Shabbat mode is my oven...Made by Siemens...Oh the ironing etc etc
Shabbat mode for ovens is making sure they can cook your dinner in a way that enables you to not have to turn on the heat on for a few days before hand and perhaps gas yourself if the pilot goes out (insert your own oven joke here) mine will do a 72 hour countdown and turns the lights off on the controllers on the front and when you open the door, for fridges I think it just turns the lights out inside, and turns off any displays.
Frummers can get weird about this shit.
Is not firing a weapon making fire?
Until this year, orthodox Haredi Jews could get exemption from military service (which many secular Jews were unhappy about).
Anyone who has enjoyed a Sunday in Stornoway will know that Sabbath observance is not just an orthodox Jewish custom. Forget about fridge lights:
The Reverend Alasdair Smith, who is now in his 80s, and his wife Chrissie remember the days when people would be "horrified" by someone riding a bicycle on the Sabbath - even if they were cycling to church.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29708202
Strict Sabbath observance in Lewis is much less of a thing these days, of course. I see Tesco is going to start opening on Sunday this year!
Frummers can get weird about this shit.
Having just watched all of Nobody Wants This I am now an expert.
I can fully respect the approach on a level: start with a set of arbitrary precepts and apply them with remorseless logic far past the point of ridiculousness and just keep going...
I say that. I can't really. I remember as a kid having a couple of rather linear school friends. (I lie. They were my sister's really.) Who were a lot more observent than their parents, apparently, about not turning on lights etc. That must've been annoying. Anyway, well done the fridge makers
Sabbath Mode.
orthodox-compatible. Neat.
In the instructions I came across Sabbath Mode.
With a forward by Freezer Butler
Is Sabbath mode better suited to bread and fishes? Asking for a friend...
It really weird, theres load of arbirtary rules they decide to adhere to, based on flexible intepretation of some old school rules, but then have lots of complex work arounds to not have to conform to them.
A fridge light is out of bounds, but refrigerated food isnt?
refrigeration is basically heating, backwards.
does the mode keep the light off when the door opens, or keep the light on when the door is closed?
I knew a Jewish Hippy, he told me "I have a Sabbath mode for my Iron man"
Atheist or not, can we for a moment assume that just because you don’t know about something, that doesn’t automatically mean it’s nonsense?
Exactly, you need to spend hours, maybe days of your life researching it before deciding it's nonsense.
Blessed are the fridge makers
It really weird, theres load of arbirtary rules they decide to adhere to, based on flexible intepretation of some old school rules, but then have lots of complex work arounds to not have to conform to them.
Have you considered becoming Jewish? You'd fit right in.
It really weird, theres load of arbirtary rules they decide to adhere to, based on flexible intepretation of some old school rules, but then have lots of complex work arounds to not have to conform to them.
All these rules are clearly just picked out of a hat with no basis, logic or anything. <rolleyes emoji>
I can understand not liking/understanding religion. I can't understand people ridiculing every aspect of it because from that base position. "Religion is nonsense, therefore rule X within that religion is nonsense" is not logical. To understand something within a religion, you have to take it in context.
I'm not very good at explaining what I mean... basically, if you want to say "I think this rule is nonsense because I think the religion as a whole is nonsense" then go for it. If you say "Religion is nonsense therefore this rule is based on made-up nothingness" then that's just ignorance.
It's maybe like someone who lives on a desert island saying that roundabout rules are made-up pointlessness. They're clearly not, he just has no use for knowing anything at all about cars.
"Don't work" doesn't mean what you think it does
pathetic
Utterly bonkers.
That’s nuts.
Yet mental.
I embrace my insanity.
Just so you know, it’s perfectly fine to be an atheist and not be a dick about it.
there’s another good trick which i can’t remember exactly for making hot drinks. Something about moving the hot water from one type of container to another to another in order to bypass the rule about not cooking things.
There must surely, surely come a point where you think to yourself, "what the actual **** am I doing?" You're devout enough to buy into whatever arbitrary ruleset has been imposed onto you for no good reason that I can fathom beyond something which was possibly relevant centuries ago, but yet not quite devout enough to play within the spirit of those rules rather than looking for ways in which you can cheat the system and get away with it.
An official day for basically tossing it off I can get behind. And that seems to be the reasoning, on the 7th day god rested so you should as well, makes perfect sense. It seems something of a leap though between god telling you not to spend half a day starting fires, and having your fridge on which requires no work whatsoever to maintain the status quo.
Rigidity for a big problem in some organised religions, (some strains of?) Islam suffers from this too. Even Catholicism was forward-thinking enough to recant on the "no meat on Friday" thing so long as you took an alternate self-sacrifice in lieu. It seems from the outside looking in that any change is a tacit acknowledgement that what went before was wrong.
You were reading the instructions?
I think this is the most shocking woke thing I've learnt on this thread.
I can understand not liking/understanding religion. I can’t understand people ridiculing every aspect of it because from that base position. “Religion is nonsense, therefore rule X within that religion is nonsense” is not logical. To understand something within a religion, you have to take it in context.
It's completely logical. If something is founded on nonsense then in and of itself any rule within said nonsensical framework is going to be nonsense. This thread is proof. The mad thought process that's resulted in a fridge having a Sabbath mode is proof of that. The context is ridiculous to start with. Its a ****ing fridge!
Each to their own though and trying to find loopholes in a divine plan could be fun. Is there a head of Sabbath workarounds in the upper echelons of the Jewish faith and do freezer companies consult them? That's the question I now have.
Even Catholicism was forward-thinking enough to recant on the “no meat on Friday” thing so long as you took an alternate self-sacrifice in lieu.
Forward thinking would be telling people they are free to eat what they like, not adding another clause to an unnecessary rule...
It's pointless trying to rationalise rules of religious observance, because their purpose is to give followers of a religion a shared identity and a framework they can follow to demonstrate adherence to their particular creed. They don't have to meet any objective standards of common sense.
In the instructions I came across Sabbath Mode.
With a forward by Freezer Butler
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The Fridge isn’t woke. It’s just a fridge that has a mode that some people want. No harm done.
I’m far more bothered that my watch has a golf mode. Say some one notices…….
The majority of Manhattan has been declared essentially “inside”, since the building and maintenance an 18 mile loop of wire round 1st-126th st. Another workaround to avoid prohibitions against carrying things.
I've got a new fridge/freezer coming tomorrow, I wasn't planning on reading the instructions but I will now 🙂
Is the fridge a Liebherr? In which case, it's hardly surprising it has this mode. Not sure how it's "woke" though. Lots of applicances has modes which dim the lights and turn off the noise, it's not someting new. I guess if it's "woke" it would be called "ism-mode" or something instead.
I also work with people who go to church - they're everywhere you know! This doesn't mean I understand the ins and outs of their beliefs - but by speaking to these people I have learnt that there are many different types of ways to bother God, so you can always pick a way which suits if you want to.
I ignore this mode on my fridge as if it's melting the contents it won't warn you, which I'd find more annoying that having the light of it on.
Everyone seems somewhat scathing about these "loopholes". It only seems like that if you are looking at it without the understanding of what these restrictions are in the first place (a bit like the meaning of "work").
For example:
The majority of Manhattan has been declared essentially “inside”, since the building and maintenance an 18 mile loop of wire round 1st-126th st. Another workaround to avoid prohibitions against carrying things.
What is carrying? Generally speaking, it means transferring something from one type of property to another. Making a whole area a single type to avoid crossing boundaries is not a loophole, it's part of the law itself and 100% permitted. Incidentally, the complications involved in the specific laws covered in making this area ("eiruv") would blow your mind 😉
Jews aren't forbidden from eating hot food on the sabbath, only cooking, making fire etc, which have very specific meanings. It's important to enjoy the sabbath, part of which means having hot food, coffee, whatever, as long as it's done within the bounds set out (in exhausting detail 😉 ) in the Torah.
Re. the fridge being "woke", think of it this way... if a modern fridge can't be used by religious Jews (or whoever) on the sabbath, they won't buy it. The manufacturer now has a choice:
A) Do nothing. Lose lots of sales.
B) Continue to make old fashioned fridges, which won't sell well at all except possibly to this group.
C) Add a few lines of code to your fridge's software. This will not impact anyone or anything else apart from winding up a few folk on a bike forum somewhere, will stop you losing sales, and will actually probably increase sales as your brand will get a good name amongst this minority group.
They don’t have to meet any objective standards of common sense.
See also "soaking" and "jump humping" from the Mormons.
I like stuff like this, being both nonsensical in 2024 but also quite interesting in the reasoning how these traditions come about.
Try explaining to a tourist to the uk why we're burning an effigy of a man on guy forks night and that it is an annual family tradition.
Same with Father Christmas etc, etc.
I like stuff like this, being both nonsensical in 2024 but also quite interesting in the reasoning how these traditions come about.
Try explaining to a tourist to the uk why we’re burning an effigy of a man on guy forks night and that it is an annual family tradition.
Same with Father Christmas etc, etc.
Eh, they'll understand. What country doesn't have its own weird customs?
Anyway, you lot are in the minority 😉
66% of people consider themselves part of some religion. 48% in the UK alone. In other words, 52% of the UK are not part of a religion, and we all know how well worth listening to the opinion of 52% of the UK is 😀
(Disclaimer: post made mostly in jest. Please for the love of, uh, someone, don't let this thread descend into a religion discussion)
I try to be sympathetic to everyone but it does rather seem that people are missing the point by trying to wriggle out of the rules. I mean, no meat on Fridays - it's a symbolic gesture, I totally get the value of that, but it's not a major hardship really because you can have any number of delicious meals with fish or eggs or just veggie meals - this is fine. But you're still getting the spiritual value of that commitment. But by declaring a city as bing 'inside' you are sticking the letter of the law but not the spirit, which seems to be to be the opposite of the Catholic Friday thing.
it does rather seem that people are missing the point by trying to wriggle out of the rules ... the letter of the law but not the spirit
Further reading here, for those interested.
Needless to say, it's Reddit, take it with a pinch of salt, though some comments (Phi1050ph3r, ldvgvnbtvn, JoshuaZ1...) seemed pretty good on my quick read-through
I try to be sympathetic to everyone but it does rather seem that people are missing the point by trying to wriggle out of the rules.
I wonder what their omnipotent magical sky wizard thinks when he sees them wriggling around the rules??? If she's a bit Old Testamenty she's gonna be well annoyed!
I wonder what their omnipotent magical sky wizard thinks when he sees them wriggling around the rules??? If she’s a bit Old Testamenty she’s gonna be well annoyed!
Magical sky wizard will probably be happy with those not going out of their way to be an arse
Magical sky wizard will probably be happy with those not going out of their way to be an arse
Can you guarantee that? I've heard that these ancient gods are a little more demanding than some of the modern ones.
Also, not being an arse doesn't seem to include nagging neighbours about the house being dark? I guess being an arse to a god and being an arse to a mortal neighbour who can't condemn your immortal soul are two different gambles.
My new microwave had a warning about not microwaving my slippers.
If I'd paid more could I have got one with a Slippers Mode?
It’s important to enjoy the sabbath
And looking for get-out clauses so that you can make a cup of tea guilt-free is fun?
See also “soaking” and “jump humping” from the Mormons.
I know exactly where you've just got that from. 🙂
People Are Arses is one of the great fundamental truths
It's also a Depeche Mode song, isn't it?
And looking for get-out clauses so that you can make a cup of tea guilt-free is fun?
Well, if it was a get-out clause, it wouldn't be guilt free, would it? Makes you think.
(I'm confused. Are you Cougar? One's enough 😉 )
But you’re still getting the spiritual value of that commitment.
Even if you are eating puffin, beaver or alligator?
Surely at some point of rule manipulation its best just to ask god for an updated copy covering modern life and when she doesnt deliver give up on any which dont obviously apply.
Surely at some point of rule manipulation its best just to ask god for an updated copy covering modern life and when she doesnt deliver give up on any which dont obviously apply.
You'd probably get smited (smitten? that doesn't work in this context!) for being a cheeky mortal.
Smote. Not smited or smitten!
Are you Cougar? One’s enough
One's arguably too many, but yes. See the 'issues' sticky.
Even if you are eating puffin, beaver or alligator?
Given the choice I'd probably rule out puffin and alligator.
You’re definitely not allowed to eat your neighbour’s beaver!
I’m well used to accommodating kids with halal diets in my day job, but I went on holiday with a Jewish lad last winter and was in awe of just how restrictive following a kosher diet is, especially as he’s an atheist and is kosher as a family tradition.
You’re definitely not allowed to eat your neighbour’s beaver!
Ah no worries there's a(t least one) religion with a get out clause for that.