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Just wondering how people are getting on with running their EV’s?
I’ve done 47,000 km, and just about to need 2 new tyres. ($700)
consumed 7673 kWh at a cost of $618
so all up, that’s an average of $0.028 per km (AUD)
That's quite a low cost per kWh you're getting there
My ev charge plan is 8 cents per kWh at night and free from 11 am through till 2. As I only get to use the free at the weekend I didn’t count that. They have elevated rates for the rest of the day to catch you out - put the powerwall takes care of that.
I get free charging at uni, so thus far 1400ish miles at £0 per mile. Happy days! Tyres will all need replacing soon by the looks of things, not sure how much they'll be, not cheap I imagine.
What makes EV tyres so expensive compared to other tyres?
Can EV tyres not be used on ICE motors and vice versa?
I get free charging at uni, so thus far 1400ish miles at £0 per mile. Happy days! Tyres will all need replacing soon by the looks of things
I'm assuming that's a typo and 14,000 - still time to edit.
You can use exactly the same tyres, but EV tyres sacrifice a little durability for efficiency, plus there's some extra weight.
Over my 5 years, very, very low total ccoss . Reduced fuel, servicing, vehicle tax, parking,
To make stuff easy for my kids in their old fashioned petrol cars, who have no idea of MPG or litres/100km, I calculated how far £1 takes you. That way if they want to do a 100 mile round trip to the seaside for the day they know it'll cost around £15 in fuel because they get about 7 miles per pound. FWIW quite similar in my diesel but that's diesel and most of the miles are dual carriageway at steady 69mph (honest!)
I went to the local Kia dealer recently as they were running an 'ask the experts' promotion and talked to them in the same terms. They reckon depending on driving style / type of driving* and of course the car you get about 3-4 miles per kwh. They also showed me typical costs of charging which they reckon can go from 7.5p/kwh if you use Octopus's lowest overnight rate (can get cheaper still if you eg: have your own solar but then you have investment cost) - so that that would mean £1 takes you 40-50 miles. Fast charge at a motorway services could cost 10x that rate, and get you down to 4-5 miles/£ (but in fairness, do the same calc for ICE using a motorway service station per litre price and you wouldn't be dissimilar)
They reckoned servicing was a lot cheaper, because very little engine or gearbox in comparison. I found the info pretty interesting and although I reckon for semi-bangernomics I'm aiming to get another 2-3 years out of my 96k mile / 8yo Sportage, then an EV is looking on the cards.
* I found this interesting - counter to an ICE, they reckoned efficiency was higher on urban driving because the 'engine braking' regen of stop-start driving harvests energy back into the battery. Whereas on motorway driving it's all out. I sort of understand thermodynamics, and can't quite work that out, it might be right about reharvesting but does efficiency of movement outweigh aerodynamics, etc. Anyone with an EV can compare range for different sorts of driving?
I’ve done 47,000 km, and just about to need 2 new tyres.
Wow, my ID3 needed new rears at 7,000 miles and the fronts need changing now at 11,000 miles.
Had my EV for 4 months now. My running costs (Ireland) so far are €120 for the 6,000km covered, plus €900 for the home charger. Diesel would of cost about €700 for similar distance.
My daily commute is 70/75km and I can get this charged overnight in my 2hr cheap charging window of 10cent per kw. (17cent outside of this but never needed so far) so €1.40 per night and about 5/5.5 km per kw which is not great. My rough man maths is, my old diesel was about €80 to fill up (45ltr @ €1.80ish per litre) and got me about 700/750km (@ about 45mpg) so about 11 cent per km. The EV is coming in at 2cent per km.
to cover my 20,000km per year the diesel was around €2,285, or €190 per month. The EV will be €400 a year, or €33 a month. Even factoring in the €900 outlay for the charger and the odd fast charge out and about (which works out about same a diesel per km) it is a huge saving.
@theotherjonv Yeah urban driving in an EV is more efficient, as you say, counter to ICE.
My Kia is getting 4.9kwh/m, other driving styles will vary of course.
No typo, we have put 1400 miles on our EV since we've had it. Bought it secondhand, probably should've looked a bit more closely at it's tyre wear when negotiating a price!
Incidentally if you happen to be anywhere near Cheshire you're free to have a nose around our Kia eNiro.....and I'll likely be able to give you some more balanced 'expert' info that the salesman at Kia (I'm not an expert, but am about to finish an MSc in a related area).
EDIT: just seen your bit about comparison.....my figures are based on the last 2 months only, and aren't properly measured....urban seems to get 5-5.2kwh/m....motorway/dual carriageway 4.0 at best, and I rarely go above 60mph. I'd be interested to hear if stuff like a Tesla model 3 etc is more efficient on motorways purely based on how much aerodynamic they look.
What's that ID3 doing - eating them? What tyres are they? I'd be going thro' tyres every 6 months at that rate
Tesla costs over 4yrs and 30,000 miles are zero for maintenance.
Two rear tyres were £280, wipers £20 and £50 on an MOT.
99% of my charging is at 7p kwh, car, does over 4miles per kwh with a heavy right foot.
Tax is zero.
It feels like cheating. Tbh it probably is.
We would have been spending £90/mo on diesel now we spend about £9 on electricity. Between 1.5 and 1.8p per mile. We did 23k miles in our first car and the tyres looked pretty fresh so no reason to assume they wouldn't do another 23k. We haven't done enough miles in our subsequent cars to assess wear. We changed the ones on our most recent EV from the crap ones the dealer fitted on the front. One of the rears I strongly suspect was the original tyre with 73k on it.
Meanwhile the diesel is eating tyres, I'll be lucky to get 20k from the rears.
Our particular car needs a coolant change every 4 years which is about £500, otherwise servicing from the main dealer is £70 or £140.
efficiency of movement outweigh aerodynamics?
What do you mean by that, the more aerodynamic an object is, the more efficient it is at moving. The resistance increases non linear, its proportional to the square of the speed. And at higher speeds this dominates the efficiency equation.
Factory fitted tyres, spoke to the VW ID specialist at local dealer and they reckon they last between 6-8000 miles and talking to other ID drivers at work they are getting the same. So yes, on average every six months i'll have new rear tyres. Glad I'm not paying for them.
efficiency of movement outweigh aerodynamics?
What do you mean by that
Yeah, not well phrased. I mean getting a car up to speed (and fighting against aero) Vs speed up, slow down, overcome inertia over and over. In an ice car constant cruising at say 60 mph is more efficient and I can't quite work out why an EV is the other way round, but happy to accept it is.
Just about to get rear tyres replaced on my i4, with 10k miles. Thankfully part of the lease deal as they an expensive ones… seems to eat them pretty fast.
even that's not well phrased on re-reading. I mean, I CAN understand that the reharvesting balances out enough but I'm surprised at the efficiency, etc. Happy that it is that way, but surprised in a 'Wow! Cool!' sort of way.
(I’m not an expert, but am about to finish an MSc in a related area).
You're an expert!
Vw really aren't selling themselves here - they're Bridgestones?
I've just got normal ecocontacts for summer and viking contacts for winters
Wow new tyres at 10k miles and less, yet at the same time increased tyre particle pollution by EVs is not an issue?
yet at the same time increased tyre particle pollution by EVs is not an issue?
Not sure anyone on this thread has claimed that?
No typo, we have put 1400 miles on our EV since we’ve had it. Bought it secondhand, probably should’ve looked a bit more closely at it’s tyre wear when negotiating a price!
That makes more sense. I read your original as if from new and wondered if you drive everywhere sideways!
As an EV owner for several years is it reasonable to separate running costs from capital outlay costs?
I'm torn because we've had reasonable lease deals which aren't really the same as capital but somewhere in there - is an elevated cost over ICE version.
My mate bought a £50,000 used Tesla to enjoy cheap running costs and even he admits he's ignoring the actual cost so he can pay 7p/kWh.
But I suppose that's the deal with early adopters and you need them for the market to gain traction.
I suppose that in this day and age, fairly few people buy a car outright, certainly more expensive EVs etc?
It is a good point though. Our eNiro 4 is a 70 plate, it'd have been around 42k new. We paid 15k for it. A search of auto trader suggests that similar age/mileage ICE Niro's are basically the same price.
After a few years with bangers and doing a barn conversion, we were in a position of having very little capital to put into a reliable a newer car. PX of our old banger got us to £200pcm payments on PCP for the eNiro. We'd have been spending at least £100, probably closer to £150 per month on fuel previously. Obviously my free charging situation means that the sums really add up, but even at 7kWh or whatever deal we could get, the savings would soon add up.
Obviously they're going to have to introduce a road fund license for them at some point. (I think that it's starting to come in on new ones?) Probably needs to be retrospectively applied to stuff like my car if we're honest to help fund a scrappage scheme of sort for people in older none ULEZ compliant cars.
Probably needs to be retrospectively applied to stuff like my car
It has been 2025 onwards . Band A zero rate has been scrapped even retrospectively
Just for maybe a bit of balance, I had an ID3 for 2 years from new and all the tyres were changed at 25000 just before it was returned, they were very close to the markers so not totally bald. 80% of my driving was commuting up and down a trunk road tho. They were the 19" wheels with conti ecocontact6
As an EV owner for several years is it reasonable to separate running costs from capital outlay costs?
Mid range EVs used are now cheaper than petrol equivalents.
Wow new tyres at 10k miles and less, yet at the same time increased tyre particle pollution by EVs is not an issue?
There clearly is an issue there as EVs aren't that flippin heavy. Mine is 1600kg, which is a bit heavier than the same car in petrol form but not at all heavy for a modern car. There must be something wrong with an iD3 wearing tyres out in 8k miles, that's insane. They weigh 1770-1935kg.
There must be something wrong with an iD3 wearing tyres out in 8k miles, that’s insane. They weigh 1770-1935kg.
People liking the feeling of accelerating fast I expect.
44,000 miles on a Tesla Model 3. I’ve averaged 232 Wh/mile. Half of the charging is at home (7.5p/kWh), and the other half at public chargers (20 - 60p / kWh).
So £382 + £2,295 =£2,677.00
My diesel car would have cost £8,050 at 40mpg.
It’s still on the original tyres which have 5mm of tread left, and the only parts replaced have been the pollen filter and a set of windscreen wiper blades.
People liking the feeling of accelerating fast I expect.
Ha, I take it you have never driven a basic ID3. You couldn't accelerate fast even if you wanted to. Slowest EV I've ever driven.
I still can't get over how cheap ev mileage is... It's a double bonus as not only is the car's 'fuel' 7p/kWh, but the rest of the house is whilst the car charges... So it's probably saving me money!
If ... You ignore the £20+k the car cost (though... £60k RRP, and it's a ****ing rocket!) and, I guess, the £810 on new all season tyres at 40k miles...
But... Nice things are nice, and EVs ruddy rock!
DrP
Should also flag that diesel over the same period would have cost $5600, so around $5033 fuel savings.
if I include the cost of the loan, that puts me slightly behind a ice vehicle….
What makes EV tyres so expensive compared to other tyres?
? I don’t think that the costs of tyres we’ve used on our EVs are any different in real terms since 2018 than those we used on ICE vehicles before.
cars are expensive to own and run.
one thing I am sure about is that I would not willingly get an ICE vehicle when I could afford an EV. Like chalk and cheese. And I know which I would prefer in a sandwich.
what I would like is that ICE vehicles reflected their true costs. Both in excise and in environmental effects.
The reason EVs are more efficient in town is mainly that ICEs are much less efficient at low load and speed, especially when you add in idling and trundling forward. This more than offsets the extra work you have to do against the air on motorways. Also you put in kinetic energy when you accelerate but that is lost when you brake.
EVs are less efficient at really low speeds because the motor still has an efficiency curve but mainly because the drain of the car's electrics and AC etc are fixed so the slower you drive the more these take over in the miles/kWh calculation. But over maybe 10mph these already vanish into insignificance.
Efficiency at speed is different for an EV vs an ICE due to the lack of a gearbox. The faster you go the more power you require to overcome drag. Peak power for motors is at around 50% of RPM, once you go beyond this, efficiency drops. For a small motor, this shows on the motorway. The Taycan uses a gearbox to get around this which is why Taycan’s frequently exceed their WLTP range estimates. Another way around this is a very large motor, another is careful application of multiple motors. But each of these adds weight (and cost) and a slight loss of efficiency, especially at lower speeds. For most people, trips where they need the maximum range at speed are a distinct minority, so it’s not prioritised in design.
I notice everyone is taking the cost of the vehicle as a sunk cost.
can definitely appreciate variable costs are lower, but how about fixed costs, what's the breakeven on the difference in purchase price
Also how are older second hand Ears fairing? I thought there were worries about having to replace the battery at great cost.
we buy our cars outright, but spend between 10-15k and keep them till they die. Wondering about an EV as most of our driving is also urban, with a few longer trips a month
Just on autotrader. Wow Tesla prices have dropped haven’t they! 2020 model s for 15k? Surely not?
Re efficiency.
It’s basic physics at heart.
The main vehicle loss is aerodynamic drag, which increases with the square of speed.
For EVs there are low “fixed” losses, and the motor efficiency curve is quite flat, so over above 20mph is efficiency drops off. An EV also recovers a large proportion of braking energy so the stop start nature of slower speed driving like in cities has less of an impact. Overall result - much better efficiency at lower speeds.
For ICEs, the same aero drag applies. An ICE has higher “fixed” losses - mostly waste heat and power needed to keep the engine and all its ancillaries spinning. It’s also got a very non-linear efficiency curve. The engine has its max efficiency point at fairly high power levels vs the power a car actually needs to run (one of the reasons why large engines cars get worse MPG vs small ones - they run further away from the max efficiency point more of the time). They also lose all braking energy to heat via the brakes so stop start driving is bad for efficiency. The net result of all that is the peak efficiency point where the factors balance out is about 50mph mph - vs slower speeds is increasing but the engine is also running closer to the max efficiency point and the fixed losses are getting less important due to then higher number of miles covered per unit of time. Above this 50mph ish point aero drag effects increases faster than the other factors hence efficiency drops.
I notice everyone is taking the cost of the vehicle as a sunk cost.
Just buy second-hand. A used Model 3 that's just ticked over 3 years is now about £20k - still expensive for a car, but close to a third of the new price. You'll still have the powertrain warranty for another 5 years too.
Mine was a salary sacrifice car so the sunk cost is pretty negligible since it fixed the awkward (but nice to have) marginal tax situation of >62% on every pound earned.
Give over do VW tyres need changing every 8k miles, maybe if you insist on launching it for the electric torque and no shifting giggles but normal driving no way. I've done 18k on mine in an ID4 and they've still got plenty of life.
I'm saving 13p mile ish on fuel compared to where I was on diesel, almost exclusively charging from home on intelligent go. Other costs are the same or lower, servicing is £150 but only every 2 years, insurance is basically the same, no adblue, no ulez issues and no tax. It is more expensive but that because of the choice of vehicle at the time and the savings offset that, with the choice and prices available now that wouldn't be an issue.
Prompted by this thread I've tried to work out our spend.
We bought a 3 year old eNiro July last year. We've put around 12k miles on it this year. Trip computer shows 4.1 miles/kWh over this time. Charging efficiency is around 80%.
The vast majority of the 12k is local driving, realistically probably averaging 20 - 30 miles per hour. We've done maybe 10 longer trips over the year 150 - 250 miles each way. Some of these we've had free charging at the far end. I rarely drive over 60 mph.
By my reckoning we've put around 750 kWhs into the car on rapids - £400. 2900 kWhs at home - £300. I reckon we would have spent around £2200 in petrol vs £700 electricity.
We had the battery go flat when we went on holiday last year, had to call out the AA to start the car. Not sure if it's fair to count this as a cost to the EV but likely if it had been our old car we could have push started it (or would have gotten someone to jump start it). This cost us £200.
New battery and battery booster to prevent this happening again £125, again not sure it's fair to count this as a cost against an EV but likely in the old car we'd have replaced the battery only.
Out insurance when up from 260 for an old Volvo s40 to £520 on the eNiro and up again £540 on year 2. I'm sure the s40 price would have gone up but equally sure there's a big differential here.
We got free servicing year 1, bought a Kia service plan for year 4/5 - cost £135/year. MOT was £50. This is significantly less than we were spending to keep our old Volvo on the road though the Volvo was a 53 plate, I don't expect the eNiro will get to 19 years old.
On the tyre side given discussion above, when we bought the car the fronts needed replaced, we put Goodyear 4Seasons on the front. These are about half worn now so I'd expect to get around 25k mile out of them. The rears hardly wear at all, when we bought the car they had around 4.5mm tread on them, now at 3.5mm.
Having guestimated the charging costs above, it obvious after writing it down but it was pretty shocking how a handful of rapid charges has cost significantly more that the majority of our home charging.
Note that we have not installed an EVSE - we do all home charging on a granny charger. This mostly suits us, there have been a few times where I've had to charge at peak rates as I couldn't get enough into the car on the granny charge in the off-peak window. I reckon a EVSE would cost us on the order of £1500 to install. Seems massively expensive to me for what is essentially a glorified socket and I've read many anecdotes of EVSEs failing.
I thought there were worries about having to replace the battery at great cost.
I think this was only really the very first few EVs... Early nissan LEAFs etc.
It seems that, past the 24/30kWh LEAFs, your car (as in..the metal and spinny parts) will die before the battery does..
DrP
EDIT - "I reckon a EVSE would cost us on the order of £1500 to install".. prob more likely £900-1000..
EDIT – “I reckon a EVSE would cost us on the order of £1500 to install”.. prob more likely £900-1000..
Nope, not a simple install here so pretty sure it'll be more than that here. My point stands at £900 - £1000 though, totally not worth it for us on expense vs convenience (and massively overpriced for what you're getting).
I think the initial failing batteries was a) old battery tech batteries and charge management systems in early cars and b) small capacity batteries which needed fully charging/discharging to get sensible range putting further stress on the systems.
What's a granny charger?
It's a slow speed charger (2kWh I think) that plugs into a standard 13A socket. Tended to come with all EVs originally but think now it's probably an option on a lot of them.
An EVSE is 7kWh so charges faster but needs a professional install.
Over the last 14k miles my Tesla Model Y has cost 5.9p a mile for electricity. That's 65% home charging (7.5p per kWh or free solar), 28% Tesla Superchargers and 7% other charging networks.
Servicing costs have been zero but I just paid to have the tyres rotated. Reckon I'll get low 20k miles out of them so you can tell the performance has been used. Insurance is another story working out around £1k a year with a clean licence. Expensive yes but probably on par with a similar sized and specced ICE vehicle that has the same performance.
* I found this interesting – counter to an ICE, they reckoned efficiency was higher on urban driving because the ‘engine braking’ regen of stop-start driving harvests energy back into the battery. Whereas on motorway driving it’s all out. I sort of understand thermodynamics, and can’t quite work that out, it might be right about reharvesting but does efficiency of movement outweigh aerodynamics, etc. Anyone with an EV can compare range for different sorts of driving?
Yep entropy.
At higher speeds your converting more of the power into heat via drag which cant be recovered.
Lower speeds = less drag = more miles per kW.
Regenerative braking in effect averages out the energy demand, it's not as efficient as driving a the same average but constant speed but it will make 30mph stop/start closer to the 30pmh efficiency than the 70mph one.
It'll vary by car though, I would imagine something smaller and slippery as a Tesla 3 would do far better on the motorway than the absolutely enormous brick that is the Polestar.
I don't believe many batteries actually fail even on the older cars. Certainly not all of them as there are loads trundling around here on commuter duty, inc mine (183000 kms).
Also how are older second hand Ears fairing?
Donald? Is that you?
can definitely appreciate variable costs are lower, but how about fixed costs, what’s the breakeven on the difference in purchase price
Depends how many miles you do. You can work it out based on 2p a mile or whatever your efficiency is going to be.
Battery replacements happened occasionally on early cars as they were working things out, but these days it's no more of an issue than catastrophic engine failures in ICEs. It might happen, but it's not the norm. There is a huge amount of anti-EV propaganda out there though for some reason. The only cars we really have long term data for are themselves early models, like the Tesla Model S - and they are on average still at 90% of original capacity after 120k miles. And a lot has been learned since they were built. Also worth noting that batteries are servicable, cells can be replaced - you don't need to replace the whole thing. Also, there are more used batteries available from scrapped cars than are being used for replacements. Sometimes DIYers replace whole batteries on old cars which means old Leafs basically.
Also there are far fewer other bits on EVs to go wrong. EGR valves, turbos, camshaft sensors, timing chains, exhausts, DPFs - remember those?
Anyone with an EV can compare range for different sorts of driving?
Hyundai Ioniq EV 38kWh summer values: 5.2 miles/kWh on our trip to Scotland; about 6 on my wife's commute involving largely DC and motorway but at slower speeds; 6 or sometimes 7 around town depending on the route profile. Knock about 5-10% off in winter depending on how bad the weather is.
ev running costs are low but depreciation is meteoric, and still really high. eg : if you bought a corsa-e 4 years ago, it cost £29k. the same corsa is now worth £9k
£5k/year in depreciation is way way higher than the equivilent petrol would have cost - it would also be worth £9k now (similar milage), but only cost £17k to start with
£3k/year in additional depreciation is much more than the fuel would have cost over a similar period of time - at 15,000 miles per year in a corsa (per the above examples) you would have spent a bit under £2k/year in fuel, and nothing on electricity.
Buy second/third hand and keep for several years.
even if you buy at 1 year old and keep for 3 years, you'd have lost £20k in the above example. there isn't enough data for cars older than that at the moment, except for the model s (with free charging which keeps its prices artificially high) the leaf (with dodgy batteries keeping its prices low) and oddballs like the i-miev\g-wizz which were never mainstream enough to really have comparitors. if you take cars that were sold as both hybrid and ev (eg the ioniq, the i3), the hybrid models hold their value much better.
I think the depreciation will settle once the technology stabilizes and people don't get massive discounts on new ones by running them as a company car, but until then its a very big part of the TCO
Whilst I dont disagree that EVs cost per mile will be better than ICE, as above people are not factoring in the capital costs, whether this is a lease, or cash purchase.
Plus the charger costs. Also isnt EV insurance much higher than ICE?
I cant see how the overall cost per mile can be that good given that all EVs are stupidly expensive.
Oh and then there is the smiles per mile. Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive. (although i would have one all day long for city driving)
I think the depreciation will settle once the technology stabilizes and people don’t get massive discounts on new ones by running them as a company car, but until then its a very big part of the TCO
It's partially down to external forces on the market though. A disproportionate number of new EV's are sold compared to the appetite for them. Not that they're inappropriate/inadequate/poor just that people are buying MG4's when they might have bought diesel Fabias. Then those external market forces (tax breaks) don't exist on the 2nd hand market.
The depreciation cost probably looks a whole lot more palatable if you add on the company car tax breaks.
And also part of it is surely the fact that the price of new ones have also fallen rapidly? Fewer people are going to be spending ~£27k on a 2nd hand £45k EV like a Model 3, when MG will now sell you a similar car a few years later for ~£27k.
Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive
Hmmm...I dunno about that...
Even our basic 148BHP FWD leaf was a hoot to drive, and the acceleration felt much 'more' than the headline power figures would suggest.
DrP
Whilst I dont disagree that EVs cost per mile will be better than ICE, as above people are not factoring in the capital costs, whether this is a lease, or cash purchase.
Plus the charger costs. Also isnt EV insurance much higher than ICE?
EVs aren't always expensive necessarily - the main difference is that there aren't new cheap/low end cars available. If you fully load a big saloon or SUV to the same extent as the EV you will be paying similar money. And the used values are in your favour if you buy used. My EV was a similar price to an equivalent ICE, and now that model is significantly cheaper than the exact same car with a diesel engine. The expensive new cars are aimed at leases where the zero/low BIK offsets it. Don't buy a new EV - or ICE for that matter.
You don't always need a charger.
My EV insurance is the same as for my diesel.
I cant see how the overall cost per mile can be that good given that all EVs are stupidly expensive.
It cost £12k for a 4 year old car; insurance is £500, fuel costs 1.5p a mile. The saving over fuel is enough to pay for half the car loan payments. I'm happy with that. If we had to get an ICE we would be on a much older/crappier car for the same monthly outlay.
Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive
suspect most owners will disagree with this. As I put in an earlier post, the big fat rear tyres on my BMW i4 are just about needing replaced at 10000 miles. I suspect this is in part down to the 335 bhp going out through the rear wheels - it is an absolute pleasure to drive !
@5lab - your postcode (assuming that's your postcode) is in those Autotrader links.
Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive
Where the hell did you get that idea from?
EVs are not always more expensive to buy. I had an Ateca that was €400 a month (Ireland), replacement was going to be closer to €450a month but my Born was only €300 a month, add in the fuel savings and no maintenance costs for 3 years (service/tyres/brakes included on service pack), insurance is the same as before. I reckon I am saving about €3k a year in fuel/repayments/running costs or €9k over the 3 years which covers any sh!tty depreciation. That said people often use book prices when stating depreciation but who pays book price (discounts/subsidies etc). My car was something like €44k but I paid around €37k, which again helps cover any depreciation. Cars are not cheap and cost what they do, you need to decide what's right for your budget and for someone like me EVs make sense.
Whilst I dont disagree that EVs cost per mile will be better than ICE, as above people are not factoring in the capital costs, whether this is a lease, or cash purchase.
Plus the charger costs. Also isnt EV insurance much higher than ICE?
I cant see how the overall cost per mile can be that good given that all EVs are stupidly expensive.
Oh and then there is the smiles per mile. Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive.
As I and others have shown...SH EV prices have tumbled. If you're buying secondhand (which the vast majority of people do) then the prices are largely parity.
Chargers payback depends on mileage done.
Insurance depends, ours wasn't any higher on an eNiro. Would've been hefty on a Tesla.
You can't see it because you're looking at generalisations, and as @molgrips says, there's a huge amount of misinformation out there around EVs. It's funded by the FF lobby.
Smiles per mile comments crack me up. Car ownership and driving form an integral part of some peoples life. I'm not one of those people. It's a means to get from A to B.
Oh and then there is the smiles per mile. Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive.
Top selling cars in the UK: Ford Puma 26,374, Kia Sportage 24,139, Nissan Qashqai 22,881, Nissan Juke 19,429, Audi A3 19,209, Volkswagen Golf 17,587, MG HS 16,730, Hyundai Tucson 16,182, Volkswagen T-Roc 15,667.
Evidently most car buyers don't really care about Clarkson-style "performance".
Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive.
I think this is a fair comment, but also missing the point. We've a fun car (gt86) and a boring family car (zafira tourer). There are no EVs that would come close to fulfilling the GT86 role (small, light, engaging to drive), although the tesla roadster was close, and I think it'd be pretty hard to engineer one that would. The market for those cars is tiny regardless of the drivetrain, so its no surprise manufacturers aren't going after that market as a priority.
as a family runabout, the dullness is likely outweighed by the silent running and the ease of accessing performance. EVs are better at that, so being dull to drive isn't really an issue
As politecameraaction says, most cars full stop are dull to drive. I'd suggest that on average EVs are better to drive since they are all autos and all have buttery smooth instant power delivery. My Leaf was a fairly rubbish car but was still good fun to throw about for a family hatchback. It had instant torque at low speeds that was a right hoot, and the roadholding was good enough to have some low key fun in it. Obviously no sports car but more entertaining than other boring family cars I've driven. The Ioniq has soft springs but brilliant weight distribution with all the weight low down and centred, so it turns in really well. If you lowered it properly, changed the springs and dampers and fitted low profile sporty tyres it'd be a right hoot - again, within the context of a normal family car. Only the lack of overall power lets that one down.
So no small lightweight sportscars but it's absolutely untrue to say that EVs are dull to drive all round. They redefine the concept of 'nippy', you can get up to speed and brake again in an incredibly short length of road.
Most EVs are as dull as heck to drive
Most people who think this conflate "noisy" with "exciting".
Been following this thread with interest as getting and running an EV is a possibility now our lease cars about to go back and so looking for real world range and running costs etc ...most of our driving is rural country lanes to work , 12 miles each way , BUT .... we need enough range to get to Birmingham (167 miles) easily enough when needed ...but this is only 5 or 6 times a year, almost all charging will be done at home except the odd trip out , see above
Anyone run an ID3 pro .. or even the new Astra although wife's not keen on the looks of the Astra , she prefers the Mokka but range is barely 200 miles !
Thanks for any info and sorry for the slight Hijack ...... As you were
200 mile range will do what you've mentioned with ease...
I'd reckon 95% of your charging would be at home... If you headed off to Brum (just...why?! ?) with 100% you'd arrive with, prob, 30 %... Half fill up the battery there, and you'll make it home again...
The ev mindset is different..once you get over the idea of "arriving home on empty" (cos you can fill up at home) it makes more sense...
DrP
If you headed off to Brum (just…why?! ?)
As my children and grand kids live there , I escaped after 52 years and now live up't north near the coast 🙂
Don't want to get an EV with 200 mile range only to find out in the real world its 170 etc .... as you say its a mindset thing
My Born (same as ID3) gets me around 220 miles on average (according to the onboard info after nearly 4k miles) depending how I drive. If I take it handy etc it will do more (240+) but I can have a heavy left foot and can reduce the range to 190miles on some occasions. Only had the car 4 months and mainly driven on main road/dual carriageway at 60+. On slower country roads, 50ish, my range increases a fair bit, not done a motorway drive yet so can’t say how this impacts on range.
Without knowing the battery capacity, that's ^^^ totally useless.
'^^^eh, how's that. Stumpy was asking about ID3 so i gave the info from my car (an ID3 with a different skin basically). They mentioned 200 miles so I take it they are looking at the 58kw battery (my car) not the 77kw.
drove from Glasgow to Silverstone and back for the Grand Prix the other weekend. About 4.5 hrs driving time each way to our Air BnB in Rugby. The car scheduled 2 top ups on each main journey on fast chargers - 7 mins and 14 mins or thereabouts on way down, and similar on way back. In addition we plugged it in for an hour and a bit on the Friday night while we ate a Nando's, and for 20 mins on the Sunday night (we had been commuting accommodation to venue Sat and Sun which was about 25 mins driving and 2 hrs car park queuing stop start each way).
Got home with 10%. Our away charging cost £80 for about 800 miles of use, having left home with a full battery. Once back home on the Monday it charged overnight from 10% to 100% at a cost of around £6.
^^^ should have added, BMW i4, 84kWh battery, around 280- 330 miles range depending on weather and roads
2500km into running a new model 3 dual motor here. Tesla indicate I’ve spent $21 total (£11) in electric. So 0.7p per mile in “fuel”. I’m on the same tariff as the OP here in Aus, so we do the majority of our charging for free.
The vehicle is on a salary sacrifice. The dual motor is around $66k AUD new here. I’m fortunate to get full higher-rate tax benefits on the car, electric, all maintenance and insurance. So that’s 45% off all list prices.
As above, it feels like cheating. Such a nice car to drive, so cheap to run, I can almost forget that I have mental Elon to thank for the pleasure.
Does this thread contain all the making progress drivers that make holes in hedges?
( sorry car enthusiasts)
You might factor in that the government will have to tax evs as they get more widespread.
The current situation where you are subsidised by the rest of us who are doing our best to use more sustainable transport will not last forever.
The goal has to be to reduce car use and speed and leave cyclists and walkers to feel slightly safer on the roads.