[Closed] Euro 2016 begins!

England goalkeeper Joe Hart: "I haven't had anything to do in the whole tournament, to be honest. We have been playing very well as a team."

Other than stop a free kick from nearer he halfway line than the goal against Wales or come and collect the ball against Russia, neither of which you did and led to conceding goals. But don't let that worry you Joe.

We are into the next round and nobody will want to play us.

...or watch us.

I found the relentless cheerleading on commentary extremely tedious, with the honourable exception of Slaven Bilic.

Sure, we had most of the possession, but we had no width, no penetration, and a total inability to find space. Any team watching that is going to be happy to get men behind the ball and hit us on the break, especially considering how shaky the defence is.

Sure, we had most of the possession, but we had no width, no penetration, and a total inability to find space.

Or urgency, or pace. Just pass it sideways on the halfway line until the Slovakia defence reorganises. The number of passes which killed the attack by being played at or behind a player rather into the space in front of him was staggering.

When you find yourself flicking between the Wales game and the Great British Sewing Bee, you know that it's a good night for England.

Bale scored but tried to be the hero a bit too often.

I disagree - if I'd been Russian I'd have been seriously demoralised by seeing the famous player walk through my defence over and over again. And without using any overtly showy skills either.

Once they were two up and dominant, that kind of dominance a) gives the team self belief b) makes other teams concerned and c) gets the world taking the team seriously, all IMO.

So what team would everyone pick next then? I'd go for something like:

Hart
Walker - Smalling - Cahill - Rose
Dier - Rooney/Henderson/Milner
Lallana - Alli - Vardy/Sturridge/Sterling/Rooney
Kane/Vardy/Sturridge

18 players? England might have a chance if the referee doesn't spot it.

18 players? England might have a chance if the referee doesn't spot it.

Trouble is, if the attempt to merge Vardy/Sturridge/Sterling and Rooney goes wrong, you'll just end up with someone who can't cross, gets injured in half a second, with a taste for red bull and grandmothers.

Or urgency, or pace. Just pass it sideways on the halfway line until the Slovakia defence reorganises. The number of passes which killed the attack by being played at or behind a player rather into the space in front of him was staggering.

I think the problem was there wasn't any space to play it forwards, just a sea of white shirts sat back marking our attackers - if we pressed more as a team and force the opponents into mistakes then we'll have far more opportunities than if we just pass it slowly across their half and hope they fall asleep. Putting them under pressure and getting an early goal is key, as it'll encourage the other team to attack so we can then pick them off with pace.

Even with that number on the pitch you might still not be able to break down a team that has parked the bus

captainsasquatch - Member
Now I understand where Bale was coming from when he said that an Englander wouldn't get in the Welsh team.
We were a cohesive, well oiled machine and a pure joy to watch at times.
Well done Wales.

I wouldn't get too carried away! 😉

Though a kind draw could see you through to the quarters.

Nah, 18 players is the way forward, just no-one's tried it yet. Well they did in Billy the Fish once, via a trap door in the middle of the pitch - pretty sure it worked out ok?

Trouble is, if the attempt to merge Vardy/Sturridge/Sterling and Rooney goes wrong, you'll just end up with someone who can't cross, gets injured in half a second, with a taste for red bull and grandmothers.

joeydeacon +1 on pressing high up the pitch. But don't forget Spurs have more quality than England; Christian Eriksen is a better creator than Stirling and also Spurs have unlocked defences at times with a big long diagonal ball from Toby Alderweireld. Which is a tactic that Italy use a lot with good success.

Still loving Wales topping the group and to think less than 12 months after the dumped England out of the Rugby World Cup. Just need G to win the TDF now 😀

I'm thinking of starting a petition to prevent ITV showing England games, as they inevitably play shit or boring when they do.

This has been a theme for every tournament I can remember. Don't bother me with your facts though 😀

England will have more luck against teams that also need to win (knockout stages), there was barely space to fit a Rizla through that defence (well, team of 11 full backs) last night. Still don't get why there were so many changes, all the successful teams have only changed through necessity. Ending line up against Wales looked inventive and fresh, most of last night was turgid sideways passing.

Still loving Wales topping the group and to think less than 12 months after the dumped England out of the Rugby World Cup. Just need G to win the TDF now

You seem to have skimmed over a more recent major Rugby tournament. 😀 And bragging rights in the group are slightly reduced by the fact that we beat you, even if we've been pisspoor at other times.

But, what the hell, I'm enjoying Wales' football this time around. Nice and positive, nothing to lose by just playing. England are so scared of messing up that it becomes self-fulfilling.

I liked the idea of a bigger Euro champs. There are a huge number of nations in Europe so giving them a chance at playing at a major championships is a good thing. However, the way weaker teams can park the bus for 90 mins because a draw is good enough is pretty poor.

Either the tournament needs to expand further in to 32 teams, 8 groups of 4, top 2 qualifying to the knockout rounds. Or the tournament needs to go back to 16 teams with 2 qualifying from each group. When 2 qualify for the knockout stages it would take 5-6 points to get through, so teams need to win.

That said, England should be able to covert those chances and possession in to goals even when a team parks the bus.

They need to get John Barnes in for a bit of coaching;

But you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you
Defend and attack
There's only one way to beat them
Get round the back

It was useless trying to thread a way through 10 men all inside the limits of the 6 yard box. Get to the byline and get the defenders turned around. So far it's been like watching United, possession, sideways passes and naff all end product.

shocking result last night form england. expected them to get at least 1 goal especially with all that possession.
there must be some serious magic going on in Woy's head...some of his decisions are baffling.
again Llalana was englands most effective player...so he takes him off
plays with 2 strikers but pushes one out wide so he is completely ineffective in that role
vardy was largely anonymous throughout the whole game...much of this was to do with the poor final ball
sturridge should have been playing off vardy
again rooney looks a bit ponderous on the ball...he's looking for that killer pass but is taking too long with it. as soon as it goes to him the tempo slows down
i dont see the value dier gives to the team...on more than one occasion he surged with the ball into the opposing half only to turn back and pass it 20 yards back to one of the centrebacks

woys tactical "genius" will get found out soon enough. he was lucky against wales and if he thinks england have played well so far then he's got another thing coming
possession and domination means nothing if you cant put away the chances and win

While I agree with most of what you say gonzy this bit makes no sense.

i dont see the value dier gives to the team...

Its simple Dier is there to screen the back 4, plus when the full backs are bombing forward can drop into defence so it is a back 3.

The problem with England (& Man U to an extent) all stems from Rooney IMO. In the center of the park he slows everything down and doesn't really have a killer pass. They need someone dynamic who can drive forward, play 1-2s etc.

England are a very average team, what did you expect them to do. Spurs and Leicester haven't done what they've done not because they have great players but because the other teams have been so poor this year. All the talk about England's great strikers is a joke and as for the rest, it almost makes you long for James Milner.

Spurs and Leicester have done well as they have great managers making the most of the players they have. England don't .

They also have a strategy and tactics, which Woy seems to be devoid of.

How can England with all the analysis etc. available seem surprised when the smaller teams sit back and defend against them? Oh yeah they did come up with the novel idea of using their target man to take set pieces 😯

Spurs and Leicester have both chosen their most effective team as opposed to their picking their best 11 players - in some cases converting players (like Dier) from RB/CB to CM - the respective teams knew their system and everyone knew their individual role. To some extent this might have flattered players - perhaps Vardy/Ali etc wouldn't look so good in other formations - but it has worked.

With England it just seems to be Roy playing his best 11 players in systems they're not used to, which don't particularly play to their strengths. He's taken elements of Spurs' tactics (Rose/Walker going forward, Dier dropping back to compensate) but not the fundamental part, which is the pressing game. Kane hasn't looked good, but in fairness he has hardly had a clear cut chance - Vardy didn't do much yesterday, but again the system doesn't suit him.

Essentially he's played some of the season's best performers, but in systems they're not really used to (or suitable for), and then wondered why we're not looking as incisive as the players have at club level. He's then panicked and gambled on unfit players (Henderson/Wilshere) and then wondered why that didn't work out either.

To me it's simple: Pick the best performing players of the last year, and play them in a formation that they're used to. Plug the gaps (Dembele/Mahrez/Eriksen etc) with the best available solid players we've got (Milner/Rooney/Lallana etc). If we've got 7/8 outfield in-form players in their best positions in a system that suits them, and 2/3 solid players filling the gaps, then this should be enough to beat most teams.

With England it just seems to be Roy playing his best 11 players in systems their not used to, which don't particularly play to their strengths.

This has been the problem with England for many many years: You pick your formation and then pick the best players to fit into that formation. What you shouldn't do is pick your players, then your system, and then try and shoehorn the picked players into the system.

Sturridge left Chelsea because he was always played out left: He's a striker, so play him as one. Last night he was on the periphery because he wasn't able to get into goal-scoring positions, due to the role he was forced to play.

Yeah, same as when we tried to shoehorn Gerrard and Lampard into the same midfield for years - should have dropped one, and put the other where he could do the most damage..

I too have been disappointed by the inability to turn possession into goals. Just goes to show again that simply having the ball isn't enough at this level.

But let's not get too downhearted yet. We created several chances that should have been taken (Vardy's was a bad miss for an in form out and out striker, Lallana's not a striker but he should be doing better with a pull back unmarked 18 yards out to hit the corners or at least keep it low) and if we had scored and forced Slovakia out to attack then there would have been more chances created. Their GK played well, Skrtel was immense, and so on.

As i said before; in the KO stages where a draw isn't worth anything, and against a side who will try to attack as well as defend, I suspect our style will be better suited and so i'm not giving it all up yet.

Or in a situation where teams attack the woeful defence and Joe Flap will be really shown up.

While I agree with most of what you say gonzy this bit makes no sense.

i dont see the value dier gives to the team...
Its simple Dier is there to screen the back 4, plus when the full backs are bombing forward can drop into defence so it is a back 3.

yeah i get that he's essentially the holding midfielder...but apart form that goal against the russians he's been largely anonymous. too many of his passes are either sideways or backwards...what you need from a defensive midfileder like him is to be able to break up the play and be able to push forward with the ball...he's shown that in glimpses but then reverts to Woy's default backwards/sideways pass mode...
problem last night was that the midfield did not gel...all the attacks seemed to come from the right side with Clyne, Henderson and Sturridge.
Wilshire was nowhere to be seen...
there seemed to be very little urgency from some of the players and thats mostly down to tactics(or lack of).
4-3-3 didnt work with the players last night...for me it should have been 4-3-1-2
back four as it was
- henderson in the middle, rooney on the right, Alli on the left
llalana or rashford then playing behind vardy and sturridge

Yeah, same as when we tried to shoehorn Gerrard and Lampard into the same midfield for years - should have dropped [s]one[/s] both, and put [s]the other[/s] Paul Scholes in the middle where he could do the most damage rather than stuck out wide.

That's a fair point Coyote!

Gonzy: I think the point of Dier is to be anonymous - with a decent defensive midfielder, it's like a decent referee's performance - you don't notice them. In particular Dier's reading of the game (Portuguese coaching) means he doesn't have to make many of those last gasp tackles that us England fans apparently love, as he's rarely out of position. He's just there to protect and do the simple things, which he's doing pretty well so far.

Overall it was pretty disheartening last night. I can agree that we dominated all three games in terms of possession. But last night looked more like walking football. We were sooooo slow and pnderous going forward. No one pulling defenders out wide or attacking space with pace. There was one moment when Vardy was released and the defence shat themselves. I don't think we shoudl be too harsh on Vardy for missing it - at least he hot the target, was going flat out. There are times that would have gone in. The times we moved the ball with pace, had runners was when we looked most dangerous. Unfortunatly we hardly did that at all. As most others have said Wilshere was utterly useless. Lost the ball nearly every time he had it, was either over-reaching or passing the ball off too hard or too soft. No idea why Roy even thought it was a good idea to have him on. Henderson has been poor but he was a bit better last night - although I still wouldn't have played him from the start. The worst thing though was our inability to fashion a goal. All that possession and very few real, clear cut chances. And we still give too many stupid free kicks away from right in front of the posts. All of the worst ones in the past couple of matches were completely uneccessary. I really don't understand why they do it. Still, at least we get to fight another day. Let's hope for better fare in the next match.

Big congratulations to Wales too. Well deserved and well played.

England’s Gary Cahill: next Euro 2016 opponents could be in for ‘a real beating’

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/21/england-gary-cahill-euro-2016-real-beating

Ok, Gary. Whatever you say.

I'm feeling slightly footballed out. I know... I know..... but the last few games have hardly been classics.

So I'm sat outside having a beer, and about to put the summer tyres on the hardtail. Yes, I know......

As all the odds were rubbish on results, I've gone for daft bets today:

Muller to outscore Ireland
Lewandowski to outscore Ukraine
And the woodwork to be hit in every match 🙂

I've not even bothered betting. Usually do it to make the games more interesting, and boy have certain games needed it, but I think I'm done till next stage.

More gutted of the break in the Copa America.

Channel is the Ukraine Poland game on?

It's on the stupid red button. So even flicking between the games is a ball ache.

Red button still has a channel number maybe 302 or 602 Iirc so you can still hop especially if you have a back button on the remote.

woys tactical "genius" will get found out soon enough. he was lucky against wales and if he thinks england have played well so far then he's got another thing coming possession and domination means nothing if you cant put away the chances and win

Not particularly insightful Gonzy....I'm sure Woy is very much aware of the need to score goals. He was right, we have played well , but our finishing has been crap. Unfortunately there's not anything he can do about that, bar rotating the squad, which he's been quick to do. Let's all hope that our luck in front of goal improves in the KO stages. The law of averages suggest it will !

Good call, Nick.

Channel 990 on VM.

Finally got to catch up with this thread - agree what with is being said about England. Against teams like Slovakia we need pace & width...

Lucky we took someone other than Sterling in that position.... Oh we didn't. Crap...

I know it's easy with hindsight, but I'm surprised he's taken 5 strikers, 3 of whom are essentially the same & not taken another winger, or Andros Townsend, who has had a much better end to the season than Sterling.

Spain seem to have had a round of egg banjos just before leaving the changing room.

Ended up folding and having a bet. Which Turkey is currently breaking 🙁

I've got Spain to score two or more and 5+ corners. Glad Croatia scored, means Spain need to keep going forward.

EDIT: oops, wrong thread.

Watching England limp into second last night was as predictable as it was annoying.

Why do we consistently feel the need to play the best 11 players regardless of duplication. No-one else does! Pick your spine, pick your 2 or 3 genuine talents and pick everyone else to slot in around, give width and win the ball for the creatives.

Looking toward to us either losing to Portugual next or France in the quarters.

What. A. Load. Of. Bollocks.

The Spain away kit is horrendous.

Croatia doing very well. Can't see this game ending in a draw....although it probably will.

Goddamit, Turkey 🙁

Also, how was that penalty kick not retaken? Keeper was in Ramos' front pocket before he hit it.

Am I destined to not win a bet all tournament.......

Am I destined to not win a bet all tournament.......

Welcome to my world 😀

It has to be a Skybet conspiracy.

I've already got the 5 corners banked, I just need a goal. And they have a penalty. Which is saved by a goalie who's so far off his line that he's in the other penalty area, but the official tasked with watching the line and goal y/n can't spot it and doesn't therefore order it retaken.

Makes you think. Where's JHJ?

Skybet is run by lizard people. Confirmed.

If Spain score I get £30.

If Croatia score I get £20.

No-one will score 🙁

What a goal....Croatia have been excellent.

David De Gea's value just dived....unlike him.

Mrs Binners only put one bet on tonight. Croatia to beat Spain 😕

thanks Turkey! GAWA keep rumbling on!!

Mrs Binners only put one bet on tonight. Croatia to beat Spain

Your missus have any tips for tomorrow's matches? 8)

Spain's kit looked like a tablecloth in a Spanish restaurant after a messy meal . Great game though . Had that and the cricket on. Sports madness!

So.... Italy will win their group and their reward, a game against Spain. Maybe Roy knows something we don't?!

BlindMelon - Member

thanks Turkey! GAWA keep rumbling on!!

My old mucker is our manager so i feel compelled to watch for his sake but by fork, we play crap football.

As all the odds were rubbish on results, I've gone for daft bets today:

Muller to outscore Ireland

I bet that Wales would finish first and second in their group. I won 😀

I wish Andy Carroll had gone. He would not have been a starter but could have posed problems for the last 20 minutes against teams that park the bus (if Euro refs let him).

I have been surprised by some players - Walker very good and Alli very poor. He seems far to keen on arguing, spiteful play and daft shots. Did not see much of Spurs last season but I guess he is better than he has shown in France?

Alli has been immense all season - but once Roy gets hold of you, no player is the same.

Alli has been awesome all season - however Poch has a habit of making good players look excellent - not many of his old Southampton players (Lovren,Shaw,Lallana,Chambers,Lambert,Schneiderlin,Clyne etc) looked as good once they moved on to Liverpool/Arsenal/Man Utd etc

Not particularly insightful Gonzy....I'm sure Woy is very much aware of the need to score goals.

so...if he's ware of englands need to score goals...explain the logic of putting 2 recognised goalscorers on the pitch and then telling one of them to play out wide...so the other one goes largely unsupported?
explain why in the last 2 games he has taken off englands most effective attacking midfielder but leaving the least effective one on?
explain why after the first game he didnt realise that sterling is playing woefully?

he's not been proactive during the games...more reactive...with his experience he should be able to see how a game or performance is panning out and make the changes in advance

dont get me wrong...i want england to do well...its been long overdue but Woy needs to get the team playing more cohesively and they need to be more clinical in front of goal
he's playing too many of the front players in unfamiliar roles

if england put in a similar performance as they did against the likes of germany, france or spain..do you think they would get away with it?

 

So ireland to do the impossible today? 5-0 humping of the Italians? 😆 I guess 1-0 will do fine! 😆

I'll have a bet on the Italians. That'll give the ROI the push they need.

i'll bet on the italians too...hopefully that will jinx them 😆

Talk about shitty odds.

[img] [/img]

I wouldn't touch that at 10-1 😀

I wonder what are the odds for Italy magically losing 3-0 tonight in the hope that Belgium get their act together?

I’m not sure you can put all the blame on Roy, the players have to do their part. I do think he made too many changes going into the last game but even then we were the best team by a distance and If Vardy had scored his guilt edge chance we’d have been laughing. We had plenty of chances to win the game against Russia as well. His substitutions have been positive on the whole (Vardy, Sturridge & Rashford) all slung on against Wales.

IMO the biggest problem is up top, none of Sturridge, Kane or Vardy know who is the 1st choice striker so every game they seem to be playing for their place, and are reacting in different ways (all negative) – Kane seems like a rabbit caught in headlights, Sturridge wants to do it all himself and Vardy doesn’t seem to know what to do if he can’t run the channels.

I’m not his biggest fan, but from the games so far only Sturridge is going to change games out of the 3, so stick him up top. Rooney in behind having a free role at No.10. Alli, Lallana and Wilshere/Henderson in behind with Dier sitting and relying on Rose and Walker to provide the width.

I wonder what are the odds for Italy magically losing 3-0 tonight in the hope that Belgium get their act together?

92.5/1.

[img] [/img]

Almost tempted to put a tenner on. But my faith in the incorruptible nature of Italian football holds me back.

Even if Ireland somehow score 3 goals past what seems to be the meanest defence in the tournament, I am sure Belgium will cock it up.

I'd still bang a quid on it.

Even if Ireland somehow score 3 goals past what seems to be the meanest defence in the tournament,

The prospect of Spain in the next round may prompt a more experimental approach. Perhaps a 1-8-1 formation? By the look of the table, it only needs to be 2-0 with Belgium winning 1-0.

It's a myth IMO that the England strikers aren't performing the reality is they are getting awful service, Sterling is gash after all he only got 2 assists in the PL last season. Lallana is better but needs to do more to get it to the strikers, rather then shoot himself. Alli seems to be playing out of position to incorporate Rooney.

The prospect of Spain in the next round may prompt a more experimental approach. Perhaps a 1-8-1 formation? By the look of the table, it only needs to be 2-0 with Belgium winning 1-0.

😀

[img] [/img]

I may have got the wrong end of the stick but Italy have won the group, they can't come second, first tiebreaker is result between teams and they beat Belgium.

[i]ot particularly insightful Gonzy....I'm sure Woy is very much aware of the need to score goals.[/i]

so...if he's ware of englands need to score goals...explain the logic of putting 2 recognised goalscorers on the pitch and then telling one of them to play out wide...so the other one goes largely unsupported?
explain why....

Well, we created more than enough chances and realistically that is all you can do ...and hope some of them go in! There is also the need to blood squad players in the group stages to ensure when they are needed later (hopefully) in the comp, so they come on with a level of confidence.

I don't think he deserves criticism at this stage, as we've been a bit unlucky not to win all our games and of course hindsight is a wonderful thing! He will have learned a few things too which will help him make the right decisions in the next game.(hopefully)

mefty - Member
I may have got the wrong end of the stick but Italy have won the group, they can't come second, first tiebreaker is result between teams and they beat Belgium.

Ireland go through if they win 1-0 against italy regardless of other results., which isn't impossible if the italians are just looking for an easy run out with little effort.

all in all though a re-think is needed for the next yin I reckon, this 3rd place patter is crap.

Either 8 groups of 4, top 2 though, or stick with the 6 groups and go to straight to the quarters with the group winners plus 2 best 2nds going through... Guess the later messes with advertising revenue, so that'll not happen. But the former also messes up the qualifiers a bit. Tap 3 going though from each group... Guess Scotland might have a slight chance then at a major tourny! 😆