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I'm feeling unreasonably wound up by the 'headlines' I've read.
I'm reading that the EU sent too many doses to other countries.
I'm reading that they were way too late to order enough for EU countries.
I'm reading of the EU seizing medication made in European countries destined for the UK.
What am I missing? because I've just looked in the mirror and I'm starting to look a bit gammon like.
Have you looked at non-UK media for some balance?
Stop reading
No, just my usual source the Daily Mail.
I stopped reading / listening to the news, my life got a lot better.
Best not to read that there are production issues in India and Modi is getting itchy to ban exports. Which incidentally is where the Uk gets a large chunk of its supply.
what you are seeing is the UK media basically trying to justify Brexit by whatever means. Then and us, nasty EU etc. Expect this at every opportunity for years to come. Whilst your kids are working in the fields on piece work, funding Rees Moggs latest extension to his interpretation of Versailles.
I’m reading that the EU sent too many doses to other countries.
Mainly the UK
I’m reading that they were way too late to order enough for EU countries.
But it eventually turned out that the EU had ordered AZ one day before the UK. (edit to add: reveled by an American news organisation)
I’m reading of the EU seizing medication made in European countries destined for the UK
About time too, it hasn't happened up till now but at some point you have to stop the pharma companies taking the piss.
Look at it from an EU perspective, for some reason the UK has managed to vaccinate six times the proportion of the population that the EU has and it's not because the UK ordered first because it didn't.
All as clear as mud, Boris and Co. playing games again and if reasonable means won't stop them it's time to requisition.
Best get used to it.
This is what our relationship with the EU is going to look like from now on.
This, and the legal action against the UK government for unilaterally acting in breach of the NI protocol, are the opening salvo's in an increasingly confrontational and acrimonious accord with our neighbours.
It's the sign of lots more to come. Good old Brexit, eh?
Making the EU look like the bad guys.
Remember:
Brexit is Good.
Europe is Bad.
Boris is Hero.
Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!
As far as I can tell, the most recent headlines about "massive reduction in supply" a mere few days after a headlines about "a massive increase in supply" have been caused by delay from a lab/factory in India, although earlier blame was being laid at the feet of the EU.
This seems to have come as a surprise to Astrazeneca and Pfizer who say they're still on target.
There's obviously a LOT going on at the moment and a lot of it does seem to be politically motivated, the recent move to stop using the Astrazeneca in some countries is also odd, the WHO, The EU, the NHS etc etc etc say it's safe and their reasoning is odd as there are FEWER cases of Blood clots amongst people who've had it the average.
Personally, I think we're all being fed BS by the truckload.
It's the unpleasant face of vaccine nationalism/power games, on both sides.
Politicians around the world, none more so than ours, have failed their populations enormously with their laziness, self-interest, failure to act in time and utter incompetence.
They are all now looking to the vaccine as their 'get out of jail' card from electorates who have had enough of all the above.
is it any wonder they're all busy hurling shit at each other?
I don't believe a bloody word any of them are saying
Re: the stockpiles of AZ vaccines that are not being used by EU countries. Were they made in the UK or the EU?
I agree with @binners - it's all political games to divert away from the shit show they helped create, look squirrels!!
Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!
I've clearly lost track of all these Covid three word slogans.
But it eventually turned out that the EU had ordered AZ one day before the UK. (edit to add: reveled by an American news organisation)
but did UK gov not hand over £millions in advance for the work to happen, whilst EU said i might pay you later if you behave?
th ewhole brexit thing is a shambles as is Uk gov media manipulation, however the EU are also being total bell ends.
But it eventually turned out that the EU had ordered AZ one day before the UK. (edit to add: reveled by an American news organisation)
But no link....
No EU statement...
If it's true I'll be very surprised
The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine was a UK led initiative
The only stopped shipment is to Australia from Italy
EU seem to be asking for shipments of vaccines that they have stopped giving and are successfully undermining any pro vaccination strategy
The vaccine issue will keep going, I've had my first jab and expect to have the second and a winter booster tackling any mark 1 vaccine resistant strains.
It's political shenanigans on both sides.
The UK had one one the largest death and infection rates so surely it makes sense to get the population vaccinated to reduce number of deaths as quickly as possible.
I would hope any country that had a high death rate would get preference on the vaccines.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
The EMA is due to report today with updated safety guidelines for AZ. Then other countries will start if it’s cleared.
Link as requested, big 'n' daft, not the original source but CNN will have to do:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/europe/uk-astrazeneca-vaccine-contract-details-intl/index.html
Same contract wording, EU signed earlier.
I’m reading of the EU seizing medication made in European countries destined for the UK.
They haven't, yet. They're talking about it. Wish they'd grow a pair and get on and do it, that's what we're paying them for. And it's not like the UK press is going to be any more negative about the EU.
If it’s true I’ll be very surprised
THe EU signed agreement is dated 1 day before the UK one that was published, but anyone reading the UK one will see that this agreement is subsequent to an initial agreement which was made three months earlier with the developers. The party with whom the EU contracted is also different to the UK one so there is no question of their supplier supplying anyone else first.
The only vaccines going to the UK from the EU at present are from Pfizer who seem to be meeting their contractual obligations to both the EU and the UK now so it is difficult to see how the EU can reasonably take action against them. As the UK supplies key raw materials to Pfizer, there is also a risk of tit for tat reprisals, but i can't see this happening.
As far as I can tell, the most recent headlines about “massive reduction in supply” a mere few days after a headlines about “a massive increase in supply” have been caused by delay from a lab/factory in India, although earlier blame was being laid at the feet of the EU.
I haven't seen anything blaming the EU for the reduction in supply. I even doubt there is a reduction. The issue is that the second jabs are coming due and they need to ring fence them. There may be issues in India which is slowing down the growth in supply.
The only vaccines going to the UK from the EU at present are from Pfizer who seem to be meeting their contractual obligations to both the EU and the UK now so it is difficult to see how the EU can reasonably take action against them.
Apparently they can using some kind of "exceptional circumstances" legal get-out. Whether that's "reasonable" or worth risking the political fall out with other countries is another matter.
Neither the UK Govt or the EU are coming out of this looking well.
If I lived in Morroco or India and was watching this I'd be shaking my fist at the TV
I’ve clearly lost track of all these Covid three word slogans.
That's because it's from 2000AD. Nemesis the warlock specifically.
at what point do we find out that we've not been getting vaccine all along; Robert Jenrick contracted supply out to his mates who run a rat catchers on the south coast, they've been supplying us with a mix of crushed up worming tablets, warfarin and bleach, and all this is placebo effect because the virus isn't that serious anyway, and can be turned down by Bill Gates using a 5G signal.
Prince Philip's been controlling it all from his command centre, disguised as a hospital room.
Makes you think......
Thought I recognised it.
Look at it from an EU perspective, for some reason the UK has managed to vaccinate six times the proportion of the population that the EU has and it’s not because the UK ordered first because it didn’t.
I understood, (granted from UK media, BBC mainly) that the reason the EU had failed to vaccinate a large proportion of it's population was due to huge suspicion of the effectiveness, and now risk involved in having the AstraZeneca jab. AstraZeneca being the product that's in greatest supply, but people don't want it. EU have FAILED to vaccinate rather than the UK MANAGED to vaccinate. The fear that there would be a large proportion of Anti-vaxxers in the UK doesn't seem to have come to pass.
FWIW, I'm NO fan of the Tories, their general handing of pandemic issues or Brexit, but on this point alone the EU do seem to be in violation of Rule One.
No, just my usual source the Daily Mail.
Can anyone else tell if this was a joke or not?
Neither the UK Govt or the EU are coming out of this looking well.
+1
The EU are behaving in a very British manner!
Even the FT has been pretty critical of their posturing over the AZ vaccine. Refusing to use it on over 65s (for no good reason), then changing their mind etc.
They've been cutting off their noses to spite their faces in a very British manner.
German chancellor Angela Merkel’s cabinet meetings tend to be sedate affairs, however one gathering in early February was anything but. Olaf Scholz, finance minister, launched an extraordinary broadside against the European Commission, saying its vaccination strategy had been a “total shit-show”.
https://www.ft.com/content/39d31c19-5a3d-4352-9bff-630f7c80e5fa
https://www.ft.com/content/767fdd85-5329-479d-b565-4ec85d28b492
https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5
The EU is not going to come out of this looking at all good...
Says the oh so British FT, get a grip !
It's also about liability... the UK gov has taken it all on, to ensure early roll out (quite rightly in my opinion), where as EU countries are not. It's the gamble worth taking for a quicker rollout... with the bonus that we could get our doses from Belgium before there was a call on that supply from within the EU. We've prioritised early rollout, the EU has prioritised risk and cost... perhaps because of a more vaccine sceptical public and supporting poorer countries with very different healthcare systems to ours.
The EU is not going to come out of this looking at all good…
No-one is going to come out of this looking good! We may have well done a better job on the vaccine procurement and roll-out but when you look at our response as a whole we've right royally ****ed up an awful lot. If we had only performed averagely before the vaccine was a reality we'd be in a much, much better position than most countries.
The biggest issue now though is that the whole world should really be working as one, moving along at an agreed level to really get a grip on the whole situation. The reality though is that we're scoring political points against our nearest neighbours (and them the same), countries that some of us want to go on holiday to in the next few months! If we screw them over on co-operation now and for the next few years then there will be repercussions for the future. That could be just restrictions on where you can holiday and what you can do when there (plus quarantine issues on your return) or it could be as a detriment to us a country politically and economically for decades, on top of whatever damage Brexit does.
We should be looking at our current situation and realising that the one bit of our Covid response that has worked is the one single bit that looked at the long-term picture and planned accordingly. Everything else has been knee-jerk responses and a disaster.
I stopped reading / listening to the news, my life got a lot better.
Yep, me too. Can't remember the last time I bought a paper, purposely turned the news on, watched Newsnight or Question Time. I've also stopped revisiting forum threads that are just the same people arguing with each other, stopped responding to Facebook nonsense and turn Twitter off if I'm getting dragged in. I feel much better, much happier and less cross.
As for the vaccine, after how we have behaved for the last 5 years I expect the EU to do us no favours what so ever (+ don't blame them) and I expect anything the current government says to be a lie.
The biggest issue now though is that the whole world should really be working as one, moving along at an agreed level to really get a grip on the whole situation. The reality though is that we’re scoring political points against our nearest neighbours (and them the same), countries that some of us want to go on holiday to in the next few months! If we screw them over on co-operation now and for the next few years then there will be repercussions for the future. That could be just restrictions on where you can holiday and what you can do when there (plus quarantine issues on your return) or it could be as a detriment to us a country politically and economically for decades, on top of whatever damage Brexit does.
To be honest allowing foreign holidays to destinations without a high level of vaccination would be bonkers.
As for the vaccine, after how we have behaved for the last 5 years I expect the EU to do us no favours what so ever (+ don’t blame them) and I expect anything the current government says to be a lie.
The EU look after the EU, that's the point of it. They won't be doing anyone any favours. However lots of EU countries depend on British tourism and so are already announcing travel relaxation.
At this point in time a EU commission that is fighting for it's political life is as believable as our collection of jokers
No-one is going to come out of this looking good!
No, but I think it’ll only be the EU that cares. Politically also more of a problem for the EU as the now disadvantaged U.K. has so far, with vaccines, been able to act faster and more decisively which is something the EU isn’t relatively good at.
And @mefty is correct, the U.K. commitment pre dates the EU by months.
Says the oh so British FT, get a grip !
Feel free to point out any factual inaccuracies in their reporting.....
Thanks, felt I was a goner there. So can we have veal again now?
The EU look after the EU, that’s the point of it. They won’t be doing anyone any favours. However lots of EU countries depend on British tourism and so are already announcing travel relaxation.
Yes, on tourism we'll see individual countries making it easy for Brits to visit.
On anything requiring EU rubber stamping eg equivalence rulings etc I expect to see zero progress, although mainly because our negotiator appears to have carte blanche to be as antagonising as he likes (and he obviously likes antagonising them a lot).
.
The biggest issue now though is that the whole world should really be working as one, moving along at an agreed level to really get a grip on the whole situation.
Never going to happen!
Every country will prioritise it's citizens over those of other countries. No leader is going to say, we could vaccinate you all in 3 months, but we're going to share our vaccine supply with the 3rd world and so you'll be vaccinated over the next 3 years.
So it seems that India is hanging on to four million of 'our' AZ doses to prioritise its own citizens. We should send a gunboat and sort them out, rule Britanniaaa and all that.
The perils of outsourcing to lower-paid economies, maybe...
So it seems that India is hanging on to four million of ‘our’ AZ doses to prioritise its own citizens
Globalisation was great when all we were importing was plastic tat!
So it seems that India is hanging on to four million of ‘our’ AZ doses to prioritise its own citizens. We should send a gunboat and sort them out, rule Britanniaaa and all that.
The perils of outsourcing to lower-paid economies, maybe…
This is hardly surprising considering this lefty forum seemed pretty against giving vaccines to the developing world at the expense of our own citizens. India is very nationalistic.
The Brits get what they deserve for deserve for generations of voting Tory and not taking any notice when shit like our plasma products supplier got sold off to China.
I follow someone on Twitter through cycling that is an antivax type. I continue to follow her to get an insight into what the conspiracy theorists are currently saying about stuff.
It would seem that the real (!) reason for this reduction in supply is one of:
1) It's a cover-up for safety concerns (let's just 'slow it down' for a bit until we know better)
2) There's not a shortage - the illusion of scarcity will drive uptake of the vaccine amongst fence sitters.
3) It's an excuse to extend totalitarian lockdown measures.
Just like to say that I DON'T subscribe to any of the above opinions, but it's interesting to see how way-out some people are!
I'm super keen to have Bill Gates' control chip injected in me, as I like being an early adopter of technology.....
We should send a gunboat and sort them out, rule Britanniaaa and all that.
FFS don't give them stupid ideas! They're good enough at that on their own.
This faux vaccine patriotism is exactly what the Government and swivel-eyed loons want. The UK managed to one thing right, probably borne of desperation as there were few options left in the face of an unfolding disastrous response to Covid. The problem will be when the smell of the dead cat has long left the room, everyone has had their jab and the UK will still be a $hit-show because of the dual impacts of Brexit and the fallout from the bungled lock-downs whilst elsewhere will be getting back on track. The US is going to experience a big growth because of stimulus, even Australia is booming relatively whilst the UK gets Austerity II, the sequel whilst Boris and chums attempts to divert as much ‘stimulus’ investment to their mates. Meanwhile, back in the UK most are wailing about when they can go get pissed by their mates down the pub, go to the footy or head-off for 2 weeks in Benidorm.
The perils of outsourcing to lower-paid economies, maybe…
UK has vaccine manufacturing capability, it's making lots. Spreading the sources of supply spreads risk.
But you keep on your hobby horse
UK has vaccine manufacturing capability, it’s making lots. Spreading the sources of supply spreads risk.
It's not making enough. The UK government recognize this now, hence why they have gone on a large drive to build nationalized manufacturing capability.
The UK managed to one thing right, probably borne of desperation as there were few options left in the face of an unfolding disastrous response to Covid.
The vaccine procurement strategy started right at the beginning, before they had chance to realise they may be stuffing it up
UK will still be a $hit-show because of the dual impacts of Brexit and the fallout from the bungled lock-downs whilst elsewhere will be getting back on track.
Current progress means we are likely to be well ahead of the rest of the EU in vaccination, parts of the EU are going to struggle with low take up rates. I suspect the UK will be out early, Boris likes spending money so some stimulus already will happen
head-off for 2 weeks in Benidorm.
Which will be bonkers from a public health perspective. Economically surely we want people to get pissed here supporting the UK economy rather than in the EU?
It’s not making enough. The UK government recognize this now, hence why they have gone on a large drive to build nationalized manufacturing capability.
I imagine lots of countries in far worse position than us are thinking the same
TL:DR?
The UK wrote a better contract with AZ than the EU is my understanding..
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/
I imagine lots of countries in far worse position than us are thinking the same
As I've stated, the only reason why we are in a good position is because we were first off the bat to approve. If we hadn't been, we'd be in the same position as the Europeans - if not worse.
Countries with younger populations, need not worry so much either.
Current progress means we are likely to be well ahead of the rest of the EU in vaccination, parts of the EU are going to struggle with low take up rates. I suspect the UK will be out early, Boris likes spending money so some stimulus already will happen
I wouldn't count on this, I suspect vaccine nationalism is about to go hot and every man and his dog is going to be attempting to put export controls on product and materials.
Economically surely we want people to get pissed here supporting the UK economy rather than in the EU?
Try saying that on the ski and snowboard thread or the holidaying in the EU thread. 🙂 Or try saying that to someone who works for Mark Warner etc. Or even somone who works for London tourism because London is the second most popular tourist destination after Paris IIRC and these things work both ways.
It's falling into the trap of thinking making Britain into a protectionist island cut off from Europe is a good thing when it really isn't.
Feel free to point out any factual inaccuracies in their reporting…..
I think some would be surprised to learn that the FT is somewhat apolitical with a strong tendency to stick to factual reporting with little obvious political bias. In the past it has supported both labour & Tory PMs.
As I’ve stated, the only reason why we are in a good position is because we were first off the bat to approve
We also started funding manufacturing sites to increase capacity before we even had a viable vaccine as the Vaccine taskforce recognised that production was going to be a major bottleneck....
We also started funding manufacturing sites to increase capacity before we even had a viable vaccine as the Vaccine taskforce recognised that production was going to be a major bottleneck….
Yes, but only one of those is close to being operational.
It’s falling into the trap of thinking making Britain into a protectionist island cut off from Europe is a good thing when it really isn’t.
Posted 9 minutes ago
It's going to happen to some extend regardless, we've made it harder to trade / visit etc to Europe. Both the UK and the EU are protectionist and as we're now competitors we'll be trading and visiting less than before.
Doesn't really matter whether you like it or not, that's just how it will be.
Yes, but only one of those is close to being operational.
I think the Valneva or is it Novavax site is manufacturing but not authorised for use. Dont know what sort of quantity that's in. What's the Fuji site doing?
Tbh, even though it's very easy to be critical and negative. I'm still astonished where we are with vaccines, I honestly wasnt expecting an authorised for use vaccine until at least 18 months, and we are a lot further down the line.
No idea if Fuji Kyowa Kirin are manufacturing C19 vaccines yet.
I'm mostly talking about the semi-nationalized outfits backed by government funding.
I conversely thought that authorization would be the easiest bit to speed up, it's manufacturing that is always the total bitch that throws a spanner in the works. People, training, materials, facilities - it's a huge task to scale up production like we're trying to. What seems like a really small issue to an outsider can cause a batch to be delayed or binned.
It doesn’t seem like a small challenge to me, I didn’t think we’d be producing any or have a realistic chance to for several years.
It doesn’t seem like a small challenge to me, I didn’t think we’d be producing any or have a realistic chance to for several years.
+1
Miles ahead of where I thought we'd be.
th ewhole brexit thing is a shambles as is Uk gov media manipulation, however the EU are also being total bell ends.
What, the goody two shoes EU? Naa.
I'm a big Europhile but it doesn't mean I blindly think everything they do is always really great.
They've made some pretty big mistakes when it comes to vaccines and at times lately their statements have sounded borderline Schizophrenic to me regardless of which newspaper I read them in.
Yep, quite surprising as they're normally the grown ups in the room. Good to see they too are human and capable of being as stupid as the next person.....
AZ vaccine back in use in France as of tomorrow morning. Not even a week of delay and people can now go and get vaccinated knowing there are no duff batches, all production sites are equal and the odds of having blod clots are acceptably low. Castex a few seconds ago.
I find it saddening to read the comments on this post and to see how eager some people are to speak down about the UK, whatever the topic.
I've lived in other countries and there's generally a sense of cohesion and wanting the best for one another.
It’s falling into the trap of thinking making Britain into a protectionist island cut off from Europe is a good thing when it really isn’t.
Nope it's saying allowing your citizens to roam the world like nothing is happening and return home with no quarantine is bonkers. The vaccine isn't 100% effective, lots of people haven't had it, the virus could mutate to a more deadly variant with the vaccines have reduced protection. Waiting a year for covid to be managed globally may upset the jet setting middle class on here but they can cry into their prosecco and go a year shivering on a British beach
I find it saddening to read the comments on this post and to see how eager some people are to speak down about the UK, whatever the topic.
I’ve lived in other countries and there’s generally a sense of cohesion and wanting the best for one another.
brexit has indeed poisoned the,country, cant see it healing anytime soon, the government actively stoke culture war issues over policy as they know it is a vote winner, the divide will only increase
Good news vaccinations will resume, every 100,000 vaccinated = 15 lives saved iirc, so even pausing a few days could be hundreds of lives saved
Waiting a year for covid to be managed globally
2023 before large parts of the world can expect vaccination in earnest
True Kimbers. And there are also large parts of the world using measures other than or as well as vaccines to control the virus. Travel is going to be complicated for a few years, with different rules and freedoms when moving between different parts of the world. A “go ahead, you can go on holiday anywhere” one hit approach will be a long way off, even if our own government were daft enough to try it soon: it can’t be done unilaterally.
some people are to speak down about the UK, whatever the topic
Speak down about the UK, or its government? In every other county in the world I’d be comfortable living in, vocal criticism of the government is common place.
god1406
Free Member
I find it saddening to read the comments on this post and to see how eager some people are to speak down about the UK, whatever the topic.
Worth remembering that those who voted for Brexit did so because they don't like the country as it is. They put Britain down. They were actively saying their own country is currently sh*t because (insert BS of your choice.)
People that voted remain actually thought this was a pretty good place to be all in all and given time with the right governance it would get even better.
As for the vaccine rollout, I am hugely impressed.
Let's not give the government a get out of jail free card though. One of the biggest deaths per capita in the world is not a mark of distinction.
I find it deeply sad that the institution most despised by government as a waste of money and cut to the bone during Austerity V1.0 is the one being tasked to save their arses.
Waiting a year for covid to be managed globally may upset the jet setting middle class on here but they can cry into their prosecco and go a year shivering on a British beach
I'm not sure a week in Benidorm is exactly middle-class, tbh.
Good news vaccinations will resume, every 100,000 vaccinated = 15 lives saved iirc, so even pausing a few days could be hundreds of lives saved
Pausing 300 000 in th emost infected areas for a week might have cost 5 lives at the current infection rates in France, I presented the numbers on the other thread. It only costs 15 lives per 100 000 if you have an infection rate much much higher -edit, and there's not catch up which there will be. Edit: there are only 1.8 deaths per 100 000 per week in France at present.
I hope you can visit in September, Elshamino. Once there are enough free hospital beds I'm certain most restrictions will be lifted. Governments are aware that people are comfortable with the level of risk if you let them choose and once the pressure is off the hospitals people will be let off the leash - that was castex's promise a few minutes ago.
I've been saying a week which is lazy because the suspension will have only been 4 days. Apologies.
Madame has a soft spot for Comté, she lived in Dijon for a couple of years. My favourites are fromage pur brebis de la Vallée d'Ossau, Fourme d'Ambert and bleu d'Auvergne.