[Closed] EU imports post-brexit

I'd guess B in both cases.
But really this

crystal ball stuff

Are you asking about importing for business purposes or for private use?

Assuming "no deal" I imagine importing for private use will be the same as from any 3rd countries. I think the rules for business will be slightly different.

B is right, though the US comparison things is not clear enough.

On non eu goods (at the moment) you will always pay the "ticket price" i.e. what the seller says, PLUS Import duty (this is a % of the value on that commodity) and UK VAT on top @ 20%. If you are buying excise products, you will pay

Import duty (% of value)
Excise duty (set fee for the exsicable product)
VAT @ 20% on top of all of it.

When we leave the EU, the above will apply to anything outside of the UK, excpet if from a coutry where an FTA (free trade agreement) exists - i.e. South Korea there would be no import duty and VAT (may - it depends on the agreement) may be charged by the consignor (i.e. south Korea @ 10%) as oppposed to being applied at the UK borders (20%)

Are you asking about importing for business purposes or for private use?

Sorry, good question. Private, just like ordering stuff online and such.

The cost of admin is the big concern, ie where and how VAT is charged and refunded, rather than any small variation in VAT rates. Get ready for handler fees for consumers, 13th directive red tape hell for businesses.

The current EU system works on a reciprical agreement, where by all goods in within the EU are classed as "free circualtion"**, this means that they are no longer subject to import duties(tarrifs). This then allows the EU to "share" VAT - its a very crdue way of looking at it, but the point being if you buy something from one EU country, they set and charge you their VAT rate and the receipient, in whatever other EU coutnry does not pay, or claim back the difference.

**don't get confused with excise on things like energy products, alcohol, tobaco - these are apyable in the country in which they are consumed at that countries rate. There is an allowance on this for personal use, but binsess use there is not.

Private use thresholds only work within the EU at the moment, everything else is subject to the above fees. IF we leave, no-one yet has seen a working document to say who will be liabel for what, we've been told that a "pot of money" will be set aside to make sure that tariffs do not hit the market, this itself dousnds dubious and illegal under WTO.

VAT is payable unless you're a VAT registered business and then you can do a reverse charge of zero rate and then pay the UKs vat.

It's duty that's currently taken off. That's what your tarriffs are for.

That will be the biggest change. Can't see VAT being much difference.

I think VAT and duty gets mixed up.

Thinking about the things I usually buy from the EU, I wonder how many shops are going to be set up (or will be willing to) remove the vat from their selling price for goods going to the UK. We'll then have to pay excise, UK vat on carriage and goods, and finally the dreaded 'handling charge'.

Can't see ebay providing any help, particularly for secondhand goods.

I wonder whether there'll be a facility set up to reclaim vat on personal purchases, when travelling, at point of export eg leaving Calais for Dover as there is in other countries. Could see an increase in smuggling

I'd guess it would be the same as importing stuff from outside of the EU now. You'd pay the appropriate Duty and VAT on the item to HMRC before it clears customs, or it won't leave customs. Rate will depend what it is.

https://www.gov.uk/starting-to-import/importing-from-noneu-countries

As you can see, it's a fairly easy process that any consumer could work out in seconds and the processes needed to handle the £350bn worth of goods and services we import from the EU annually could easily be put in place at a national level in the 8 working days between the 19th and 31st of Oct, ready for 'no deal'.

Of course we can all laugh at Brussels because they will HAVE to buy the £290bn worth of goods and services we export to the EU every year and they can sort all that out for themselves - it's a good thing we'll be part of the largest international trade association in the world with access to 26 individual different nations all using the same frictionless trade system, because otherwise we might be utterly ****ed, stuck paying duty on things we have to import because we cannot make ourselves at short notice, whilst our biggest export partner can pick and choose who they import goods from a large selection. So, they might not be able to import Land Rovers, not wait they're made in Slovakia now, Dysons! No they're made in the far east, Banking! Banking and Finance, they're our biggest exports - it's a good thing Bankers can't move, well they're really heavy aren't they? No wait, it's just people you could move the entire 'City' from London to Paris on the Eurostar in 3 hours.

The cost of admin is the big concern, ie where and how VAT is charged and refunded, rather than any small variation in VAT rates.

I don't understand. VAT is already a part of the imported price. Can't see the Government lowering VAT either.

The current members state to member state VAT rules don't seem easy to grasp actually.

VAT is charged on imports @rone. Transactions within the EU are not imports/exports. If you don’t understand where and how VAT will be charged and refunded once we outside the common vat area, don’t worry, you’re not alone.

The cost of admin is the big concern, ie where and how VAT is charged and refunded, rather than any small variation in VAT rates.

As an individual (or a company), not vat registered, rather than a company that is registered, I think that you'll be paying vat in the country of purchase, as well as vat in the UK in the event of no-deal.

As you can see, it’s a fairly easy process that any consumer could work out in seconds and the processes needed to handle the £350bn worth of goods and services we import from the EU annually could easily be put in place at a national level in the 8 working days between the 19th and 31st of Oct, ready for ‘no deal’.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/register-for-simplified-import-procedures-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal

VAT is charged on imports @rone. Transactions within the EU are not imports.

I know, you can reverse charge the VAT so you don't pay it - if you're a VAT registered company.

Indeed. 13th VAT directive sets out how to get reimbursed @vinnyeh, but you have to be registered, obviously. You’d expect that for sales to consumers, EU companies will be able to sell VAT free… and then the customer only pays on import (plus a big fat handling fee of course, oh and duty), but it’s far from certain.

If you don’t understand where and how VAT will be charged and refunded once we outside the common vat area, don’t worry, you’re not alone.

I've just gone through MTD and import regular from the States. It's not going to be that much of a chore for us.

The Government will be the weak link, not us.

VAT is charged on imports @rone. Transactions within the EU are not imports/exports.

That's a contradiction.

VAT is charge on imports. Currently in the EU.

So are they imports or not?

Do you mean duty?

From here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/importing-standard-goods-using-transitional-simplified-procedures

"
If you’re importing goods that are not on the transitional simplified procedures controlled goods list, you’ll need to make the first part of your declaration by recording information directly into your commercial records. "

"After you’ve imported your goods
A supplementary declaration will need to be made by the fourth working day of the month following the arrival of the goods into the UK.
If you have duties or taxes to pay, HMRC will take your direct debit:
for customs duties and any import VAT, on the 15th day of the month that your supplementary declaration is made in
for excise duties, on the 29th of the month that your supplementary declaration is made in
If your business is not registered for VAT, we’ll introduce a new method for paying import VAT. We’ll give more details shortly.
If you’re VAT-registered, you’ll account for VAT on your VAT Return."

Simple! 😉

Not a contradiction. Although not clear. VAT is charged on purchases. VAT is also charged on imports. Buying from another EU country is a purchase but not an import, as regards VAT (and also duty).

We’ll give more details shortly.

That sums it up, really.

Reverse Charge VAT only exists in Europe, not the UK to EU (the only excpetion is the construction industry).

No one will pay EU VAT if we leave and you import, as you will make a reclaim for it through official channels. that said, i've just read the registration that all non-Uk buiness selling upto £135 will have to go through in order to charge UK VAT - it's bonkers

Why do you lot get all flustered trying in vein to work it all out?

Ask LyingBloHard 🤷‍♂️

The £15 is from here. I think it's UK law, not EU. The plan for EU laws is that they would be replicated in UK law when we leave. There was bumper package of new laws to do that, but for many laws they just enabled the relevant ministers to make regulations as they saw fit, without the scrutiny of Parliament. That was all part of TM's plans, I don't know what's happened to it since.

Note the £15 threshold does not apply for goods from the Channel Islands. Goods of any value from the Channel islands are liable for import VAT. So would this apply to anything from the EU?

Depends. That was brought in to stop CDs & DVDs. Who knows.

re the £15 thing(Low Value Consignment Relief)- my reading is that if we do a deal then it will stay (and may/may not be applicable to EU purchases depending on the deal), but that if we leave with no deal then the govt is going to scrap the whole thing irrespective of the origin of the goods see here  section "VAT on goods entering the UK as Parcels..."

Another brexshit thread?
What a surprise.

Question is, who’s right? I know that there was talk of essentially doing a copy & paste of EU regs into English law, but I’ve no idea whether that is likely to apply in this particular case. Anyone have any insights here? Or is it just crystal ball stuff at the moment and no-one knows for certain either way?

Don't know but I know all tourists can claim back their VAT at the airport, show receipts, if they are leaving UK to non-EU countries.

In the meantime if any of you have a business manufacturing something and want to export to non-Eu countries in S.E. Asia can try me. Seriously. I am looking for something to export from UK. 😃

Another brexshit thread?
What a surprise.

No, it's an import / VAT thread. Reading it isn't mandatory, but thanks for your valuable input.

If I buy something on-line from Europe and have it delivered to me in Canada I pay no VAT at the website’s checkout.

When the package arrived in Canada it goes to customs, the delivery company pays any import duty and the the sales tax at the Canadian rate. They then send me a bill for the duty and the sales tax plus what always seems like an unreasonable amount for the administration once I’ve paid them they forward the package to my address.

I imagine that this is what will happen when importing items into the UK from Europe post-Brexit. All the systems will be in place with the government agencies and the delivery companies because they already use them when processing imports from outside the EU.

Or have I missed something?

Nope, you’ve missed nothing, for a consumer purchase, that’s pretty much what we’re expecting. It’s the admin cost (and possible delay and hassle) that’ll make the biggest difference to how we currently do things within the “bureaucratic” EU.

The current law is that things like this are being incorporated in UK law when we leave.

Very happy to be contradicted but my understanding is this is wrong. Things like this are deals, agreements and concessions, not laws, rights, stautes or obligations. The later three are being copy pasted in theory and will require some sort of legislation to alter them. The former aren't being ported as they require the agreement of both sides and as yet, we don't have that. To port current VAT arrangements into UK law would require us to put into place legislation binding on EU27 which I can't see being accepted.

As I understand it as a private individual I will be liable for VAT on imports from the EU, where, in theory, they will not charge VAT on the export. The lack of reciprocal agreement though means I'd pay hmrc, like I would if I currently bought from the USA.

Of course its all crystal ball stuff though as BJ may yet pull a unicorn out of his arse.

BJ may yet pull a unicorn out of his arse.

The notion that he has one up there to start with would explain much.

How many individual low but over £15 value packages cross between UK and EU and visa versa every day? Who's going to check them? We send stuff worldwide sent out large letter size with the declaration label correctly filled in and too our knowledge no rest of world customers have had to pay tax or duty. Even to Australia which has no threshold.