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My Granddad was part of the team which demolished Belsen at the end of the war. He 'liberated' a 3-foot Nazi ceremonial sword which, for some reason, he left to me when he died. Thanks Granddad!
It's been in my garage for a few years and I'm skint now so am thinking about moving it on.
On one hand I'd imagine it's worth a few quid and I know that he wanted me to sell it. On the other, I really don't want it to fall into the hands of some neo-Nazi 'enthusiast' (maniac).
Anyone know how I might go about selling it?
Should I put it on the Classifieds?!
ebay.de
Email Lemmy from Motorhead and see if he wants it.
Ask Lemmy if he fancies it
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[i]I'll tell you something about history. From the beginning of time, the bad guys always had the best uniforms. Napoleon, the Confederates, the Nazis. They all had killer uniforms. I mean, the SS uniform is..... ****ing brilliant! They were the rock stars of that time.[/i]
EDIT: Beat me too it
Donate to a museum?
Would some museum or other pay you for it? To be honest I'd be just happy to hand it over to one without any payment.
He said he is skint!
My grandad died in Belsen.
He got drunk one night and fell out of his watchtower.
TAXI!
This guy?
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I really don't want it to fall into the hands of some neo-Nazi 'enthusiast'
Well that's probably where it'll end up, specially if it's got connection with the SS.
Post on Stormfront Forum for best price.
The Imperial War Museum had a Holocaust section - perhaps offer it them on loan or as a gift.
Approach a number of Museums and ask for their Buyer/Artifact Buyer.
Its one of those things thats worth either absolutely nothing or something. However I doubt its worth a massive amount.
I reckon say £700.
My Great Uncles ceremonial sword is priceless.
Go on a killing spree with it, maybe wear a white hood, to discredit the right wingers
My Great Uncles ceremonial sword is priceless.
Is that a euphemism for something unspeakable?
I can never forgive the Germans for the way they treated my grandfather during the war...passed over for promotion time and time again.
old, I know.
Can I be the [s]first[/s] second to say killing spree.
Anyone got Lemmy's number?!
He told me that he wanted some good to come to the family from 'this horrible thing' and he wanted me to sell it. I think it was the key to some dark memories for him.
I asked a couple of museums about donations but they said it wasnt their 'kind of thing' and were completely unhelpful.
To be honest, I'm struggling to see why anyone would want it if they didn't buy into the ideology a bit.
Is that a euphemism for something unspeakable?
Officers sword.
schrickvr6 - Member
Can I be the first second to say killing spree.
Nice try!
Before we had kids it was stored in a box under the bed. It would scare the crap out of a burglar!
Anyone need a bike thief deterrent?
It's just a piece of metal. Take an idiots money and smile as you do it.
[bing bong] MuddyDwarf to the forum please [bingbong]
you could put it [url= http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php ]on here[/url] or see if any of the dealers listed are selling similar
My Grandad was in the medical core and was one of the first people into Belsen when it fell.... he didnt say much about it.
[i]I'll tell you something about history. From the beginning of time, the bad guys always had the best uniforms. Napoleon, the Confederates, the Nazis. They all had killer uniforms. I mean, the SS uniform is..... ****ing brilliant! They were the rock stars of that time.[/i]
have to disagree with him, the coolest looking WWII uniform IMO was the US paratrooper kit (but i think you'd look a dick wearing either 😉 ) or steve mcqueen sporting the US pilot look in the Great escape obviously.
Thanks Klunk - that's handy.
a_a - I know that 'stiff upper lip' well. Must have been so traumatic.
Wasn't the SS uniform designed by Hugo Boss?
Ooops misread the title as ethnics and nazi stuff.
[url=
- are we the baddies?[/url]
£50 - and I'll only use it for doing the turkey at Christmas.
It's just a piece of metal. Take an idiots money and smile as you do it.
Like selling a bike on E-bay
I am in possesion of an SS Police Officers sword, and have similar worries about selling. Mine is serial numbered so could be traced to an individual I guess. I have seen the same swords selling for thousands of dollars to US buyers.
...the coolest looking WWII uniform IMO was the US paratrooper kit...
If 'scruffy bag of shite' look is cool. Most comfortable and practical, well you might have a point, but lookswise it's right down there with potato sacks.
Is it SS or Wehrmacht? Might make a diffrence in how you rationalise the ethics of the thing.
ETA - Is it just me that finds it odd that persoanl accoutrements, such as uniforms, badges, knives / bayonets / swords etc, can be viewed as embodying the evil of the Nazi regime, whereas "bigger kit" is somehow de-personalised and viewed merely as a (usually very good) piece of military technology / hardware.
That photo ^^ - dressing up in the SS uniform looks totally inappropriate, yet the jagdpanzer doesn't...
[bing bong] MuddyDwarf to the forum please [bingbong]
😆
No thanks, got my own swords and i only go for medieval stuff - now if you hand a Landsneckt (sp?) Zweihander i might be interested!
All the blokes i know who do WWII German stuff wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, for obvious reasons they are EXTREMELY wary of neo-nazi nutters trying to join their groups and nazi insignia/kit is banned from most groups as far as i know.
the coolest looking WWII uniform IMO was the US paratrooper kit...
If 'scruffy bag of shite' look is cool. Most comfortable and practical, well you might have a point, but lookswise it's right down there with potato sacks.
Ethics aside, again, the elite German forces - Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe (fallshirmjäger) and especially Waffen SS, were very much at the fore in modernising combat gear, especially disruptive patterns
Ethics aside, again, the German forces were very much at the fore in modernising combat
FTFY
Edit: I should just add (although it's sad that I feel I have to), my father fought in WWII against them.
fallshirmjäger (paratroopers) were wehrmacht (army), not luftwaffe (air force). Still keen on grey.
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From watching to many antiques programmes, have you got lots of other information, documents, photos other memrobelia of your grandfather. Tell your grandfather's story and why he had that sword.
fallshirmjäger (paratroopers) were wehrmacht (army), not luftwaffe (air force).
From the various books I've read, I was under the impression that the fallshirmjäger came under the Luftwaffe command structure...
I beg your pardon, it seems they were luftwaffe in the beginning.
Wrecker - it's no wonder they lost - they all have their eyes closed in that photo...
That was because the fat man in charge of the Luftwaffe insisted that anything to do with aeroplanes came under his personal command - the Nazi's were a bit competitive about things like that..
If this is a real sword from Belsen it is worth a LOT of money..99% of the stuff is fake so you must have documents etc I mean its worth more money than just a few 1000. The market for this sort of stuff is huge especially the in USA and Japan. Id do some research and see who deals with this stuff and get a few quotes.
Ironically the USSR also had death camps and Stalin killed many more than Hitler, but then again we were on his side so that makes it different..lol. So I wouldn't worry about any moral stuff, just what bike you going to buy.
Edit, i presume its a SS one.
http://www.wwiidaggers.com/SSPOL.htm
WWII german stuff is widely collected - partly because its well designed / well made.
One of the ways the Nazi regime handicapped itself in the war was it spent too much time on design and development, they produced superior kits but spent too long doing it and didn't make it fast enough. The UK approach was the reverse - guns made by toy manufacturers, real life-saving things like the Morrison Shelter was conceived, designed and engineered in 48 hours.
What mostly makes the stuff collectable is its rarity, as most of it wasn't kept. Every victorious tommy would have kept his medals and service revolver, german soldiers would have been less keen to have momentos, so much of what survives is like the OP's sword - captured by the good guys.
Its wise to be wary about nazi nutters if you are selling - I've had to research and buy real and replica nazi stuff for films, but in my experience I've found the collectors of real stuff to be just that - collectors, its the replica stuff that has sometimes turned out to be a bit dodgy in its provenance and in terms of who buys it
Wasn't the SS uniform designed by Hugo Boss?
He claimed in his advertising that he manufactured german uniforms, but what was actually manufactured or designed by him isn't clear. Pretty much any manufacturing business would have been part of the supply chain for the war effort whether they liked it or not. He was a supporter of the Nazis, but because of his vocal support he was stripped of the company after the war (and died soon after anyway), so other than in name the business as it is now is unconnected with him, its not an ongoing Boss family business. Unlike Rothmere and Sons ( [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Harmsworth,_1st_Viscount_Rothermere ]Hurrah for the Blackshirts[/url] ) 🙂
Regardless of any ethics, merely on the subject of selling stuff when funds are low, my criteria (arrived at the painful way) is 'can it be replaced when times are better?' If the answer is no, then keep it. This sword, with story, would be a 'no' surely?
In a vaguely similarish vein, a mate from Scotland whose parents were 'persecuted out of Eastern Europe' by the nazis (and we got the story many times), has been somewhat embarrased recently as after clearing out after his mums death he found all his deceased fathers stuff as well, the Iron Cross was worth quite a few quid.......
Ironically the USSR also had death camps and Stalin killed many more than Hitler, but then again we were on his side so that makes it different.
Personally, I think the plethora of books covering the bitter conflict in Eastern Europe over the last 10-15 years should prompt some rebalancing of opinions, perhaps in generations to come. There clearly should be no diminution of the horrors perpetrated by the Nazi regime, but increased recognition of the parts played by the other combatant countries is overdue, IMO. There I a lot of hypocrisy regarding WW2
The received wisdom of the last 50 years would require that an SS sword be regarded as beyond the pale - the embodiment of evil. But, as a ceremonial piece would it even have been used?
On the other hand, Japanese samurai swords have been highly collectible, right from the outset of US operations in the Pacific - with, most likely, a far higher chance that they were used for real.....
OK.
Time for some seriousness in this thread, it s serious subject boys and girls.
1. In most countries, the sale of Nazi Memorabilia is, quite rightly, illegal.
2. Most family bits and pieces histories have been embroidered over the years, lost in translation, bigged up, what you have may be something quite different from what you think.
3. Provenance is EVERYTHING. No reputable museum will touch anything without some serious documentary evidence, especially in such a delicate area. For example, a picture of the German officer, who is easily identifiable as a particular individual, holding the sword, might get you a second interview.
Take a pic, email it with what you know about the sword to the Imperial War Museum, they may have a specialist, or can refer you to a reputable expert.
I guess it's saleability from an ethical perspective depends on whether it's simply an infantry officers sword or something with much darker insignia or motifs.
There are loads of arms and armour fairs all over the country where you could take it to a few dealers.
From this website if it's an SS sword it could be worth a fair bit (probably about 50% of those retail prices) but pretty distasteful.
http://www.snyderstreasures.com/pages/germanswords.htm
If it was me I'd prefer to loan it to a museum I think.
Take a pic, email it with what you know about the sword to the Imperial War Museum, they may have a specialist, or can refer you to a reputable expert.
They'll most likely refer you to a specialist in Germany as they did me.
In most countries, the sale of Nazi Memorabilia is, quite rightly, illegal.
Ah yes, censorship, one of Hitler's favourite tools...
Ethics?
This is all really interesting - thanks.
I'd love to know more about it but its provenance went with my Granddad - he cleared out all his war stuff before he died.
This link sent shivers down my spine:
ihaveabike - Member
> http://www.wwiidaggers.com/SSPOL.htm
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It looks very very similar to lots of these, though it isn't in perfect condition.
I'll get some pics and do a bit of 'fishing'
I'd love an original fairbairn-sykes if anyone has one they'd like to sell me for cheap. Or free.
I wonder how many Chinese factories turn out historical copies 😆
Years ago I almost bought a Bren gun from a military Collectables shop in Brighton. Mrshora said it wouldn't look right on the coffee table 😀
We have some originals which I think we'll hang onto because they meant a lot to my grandfather. One is a MASSIVE uboat flag like the bottom one [url= 
]here[/url] and the other a Liebstandarde Adolf Hitler ceremonial bayonet and belt with the name of the soldier carved into the inside of the belt.
We talk periodically of sending them to a museum or selling them to a collector but they meant a lot to him so for now, they come out of the cupboard once in a blue moon to show to someone in the family or what have you.
I'd love an original fairbairn-sykes
see, that would send [i]shivers[/i] down my spine
see, that would send shivers down my spine
Why?
Lets see a photo FGS !!!
Brought up with sporting guns, learnt how to use and respect them. Same with knives - in terms of pocket knives, small sheath knives, machetes, even. Tool for a job - respect it, use it properly, be safe with it. My grandfather told me as a kid - always carry a knife, it will save your life some day (I don't, btw...)
Combat knife - that's a bit different, IMO. Singleminded in purpose, cold blooded.
Many years ago we found a very long, very old bayonet - hidden on a ledge inside an old chimney breast. IIRC we came to the conclusion that it was a WW1 bayonet for a Lee Enfield. Quite a chilling find. Don't know what my parents did with it.
Bit like this, but with a nasty kink in the middle...
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I've changed my mind - definately sell it. Even if it goes to a right-wing nut - it's not going to make them any more of a right-wing nut, and it will mean they have less money to spend on spreading hated and bile...
Relevant, perhaps, to the discussions on ethics and Nazi Germany.
Perhaps the idea, like the Breivik trial, is to expose the hatred and vileness of the real ideology lurking beneath the apparently cultured shell...?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17923208 ]Mein Kampf - republished in Germany???[/url]
there are websites and dealers for this type of thing.
Some of our local antique shops have military sections, so may be worth enquiries along those lines, but check the websites first so u have an idea of price.