Espressotrackworld

With a traditional espresso machine, if you have a good enough grinder the making of the espresso is not hard at all. It's quite precise, and you need to get it right, but it's not difficult. I started with a second hand grinder and struggled for a month, but once I sorted that out (needed new burrs) it was fine. Later got a better grinder and it was immediately better again.

Espresso grind is much finer than cafetiere or filter. Grinders are adjustable. For espresso you need a grinder that is capable of that fine a grind, and good quality. When you change beans you sometimes have then to adjust the grind, so it's quite sensitive to that. A little too coarse and the water runs through too quickly, not extracting properly, and the coffee doesn't taste nice. Get it right and the espresso is thicker with some sweetness. To start with you have to trial and error your way to the grind setting. Once you've got the hang of it you just leave it be unless it needs a change, which you'll probably guess in one go, near enough.

We have a dual boiler E61 machine, bought 2nd hand. Expensive, but it's 10 years old now.

I was a Nespresso user, but during lockdown changed to a bean-to-cup Espresso machine. The savings of beans vs capsules paid for the machine inside a year with 3 heavy drinkers in the house.

There’s a refurbished delonghi site that offers the same warranty as new, but with big discounts. Very impressed.

Thanks both. Should add that usage case is 2-3 espressos a day usually, probably a bit more at the weekend.

Not necessarily all that fussed about E.g. steam wands.

Lelit Anna looks nice but not sure?

* How hard is it to make espresso properly?

Making espresso well takes quite a bit of trial and error at first. Once you find a routine that gets you coffee that you like with a faff level you like it gets easier. It will always be much more of a process than a pod machine or a filter coffee so you have to enjoy the process itself for it to be worthwhile IMO.

* What’s the difference between cafetière grind and espresso grind?

A reasonable ballpark is cafetiere is like granular sugar and espesso is like icing sugar (not quite, but close enough I think). To get the grind size right for espresso usually means quite an expensive grinder - they start at about £300 for electric grinders or about £120 for hand grinders. Cheaper secondhand, obvs. If this sounds like more hassle than you want then bean-to-cup or nespresso are probably the way forward.

* What’s a good starter machine

Other will know better about actual machines than me but if you're happy to supply some elbow grease (and a bit of faff pre-heating) then lever machines like the Flair might be worth a look. The Flair Neo is relatively cheap and also designed to work well with coarser grinds.

James Hoffman also says making espresso at home has to be a hobby, something you enjoy tinkering with, experimenting and playing around. Then that process restarts when you get the next bag of beans. It’s a bit frustrating and not something you can just ‘do’. IME it’s really hard to get decent espresso even with a good machine (in my case a Barista Pro).

Making a decent Americano or latte is v easy by comparison.

James Hoffman also says making espresso at home has to be a hobby, something you enjoy tinkering with, experimenting and playing around.

Not necessarily all that fussed about E.g. steam wands.

Aye, wary of getting any more time sinks.

Did like the look of the Sage Bambino Plus but it was suggested that it’s too easy to move around?

Quite easy to go down a black hole of looking at horrifically expensive machines on this…

I slipped down this particular rabbit hole a few months ago. I thought I would buy a nice little burr hand grinder and an Aeropress to sit beside the old French Press and Moka pot...

This soon escalated to a Niche Zero grinder, scales, temperature gauges, grind gauges, notebooks, etc. I then bought a fairly cheap Sage Bambino espresso machine that then prompted more spending on tampers, a bottomless portafilter, knock-out bin, tamper mat, etc. A friend bought me a lovely V60 pour-over kit as a wedding gift; this is easily my favourite brewing method... relaxing to use, exquisite to drink (once you get the method right!).

Regarding the espresso machine: I'm fairly happy with the Bambino; particularly as it was almost half-price direct from Sage. Took a few "pulls" to get things something like right, but pretty good now. I'm certainly happy that I put most of the budget into getting a high quality grinder though. No point in having a fancy espresso machine if you can't get the grind right.

Just another thought...
I didn't think I'd use the steam wand either, but it's become an intriguing new tool. If I were ever to upgrade (unlikely) then it would be to have a steam wand that has more control and adjustment.

1. Not that hard. Just a few basic rules to work to
2. Espresso is much finer. But you will need to play around with your grind settings and time to suit your bean to get the right pull time.
3. Lots of good basic machines - sage, classics, Silvia's etc. But my Silvia has just started tripping the RCD so I will need to strip it down and find the fault.

I was bought a barista course as a birthday present.... really good day out and far better than YouTube. I recommend one of these if you can. Try your local roaster.

You kind of have to decide where you are on the money/faff/snobbery spectrum.

It goes roughly like this I reckon:

Delonghi et al - cheap, not really an espresso machine because they don't make it by high pressure through a compressed puck of coffee, rather they just steep grinds in water. Presumably still quite faffy. IMO not really worth bothering with over eg filter/aeropress but YMMV. Many will be very happy with them though I'm sure.

A range of bean to cup machines - min faff, some apparently produce good coffee but I haven't tried them. Some don't. Different discussion I think.

Basic but "proper" espresso machines like Gaggia Classic (are they still good?) or Rancilio Silvia. In the right hands, as good a coffee (near enough) as a more expensive machine IMO. These are probably the classic "starter machines".

E61 single boiler - flashier version of the above. More expensive.

Same but dual boiler - more expensive again, probably easier to use than a single boiler. Essentially the machine you see in a cafe but a home version.

Any PID type chat or more technical stuff about pressure = only of interest to a small minority that doesn't include me. Way beyond any starter machine debate.

Alongide any proper espresso machine you need a decent grinder. And I'd recommend a single dosing one because bean freshness is everything, both in terms of quality and because it takes away an annoying element of learning to make a decent espresso.

Lever machines cover the whole "proper" espresso machine spectrum too. Worth a look, not sure if they save money or not, compared with similar quality pumped ones. Never tried one myself.

@Yak Good thought about a barista course. Anyone know of one in GM (if there is good coffee in Rochdale proper, I’ve yet to find it…)

@luket Thanks - that’s all useful.

I'm in the same boat but can't justify the faff time. I have a goo d aeropress recipe that I'm happy to use at the weekend. The convenience of dropping a pod (vertuo) in while getting ready in the morning is hard to beat. Then I go to work and use my original machine. I think I need to rethink my work coffee routine and go back to cafetiere or get another aeropress.

Had anyone used ese pods? If any good could be a good alternative for weekdays with the machine sitting there ready to nerd out at the weekend.

Edit: at home I have Nespresso vertuo, aeropress, cafetiere and Moka pot. All get used to varying degrees but the Nespresso is the main contender.

Re the Gaggia Classic as an entry level machine:

I bought a pre-2015 Gaggia Classic and Sage grinder on eBay three or so years ago. It makes nice coffee. I don't worry so much about extraction volume, shape of liquid as it pours out of the bottomless portafilter any more. Don't need to seek perfection on every brew just need coffee!

Need to stay on top of descaling regularly with the Classic otherwise the solenoid valve blocks up and then you'll need to service it. Sometimes can be unblocked by alternating switches to change flow of water between brew head and steam wand. More likely unplug wires and dismantle boiler, descale, and reassemble. They're simple machines so people such as myself with no electronics knowledge can manage it just note which wires go where.

You might need a pressure gauge to re-set the pressure if you dismantle the pressure valve.

My classic became blocked at the end of 2021 and needed to be dismantled cleaned out and rebuilt over the Christmas period. Despite this I was lazy this year and didn't bother descaling and it became blocked within 10 months.

Still happy with it though. The tap for the steam valve is a pita though, leaky again, new one barely lasted a year before leaking.

Another Gaggia Classic user here mine from 2005 , I stripped it down and replaced and cleaned whatever it needed, I've a another Classic and a Gran Gaggia to swap bits about
Must recondition my Rancilio Silvia, needing stripped and the rusty base plate shot blasted and painted, very annoying with a 8 year old machine
Grinder is a must , just look for a cafe getting rid of one , so cheap and rarely go wrong but could be a wee bit bulky in the kitchen

I'm quickly realising that coffee machines are like cameras. The machine is like the camera and the grinder etc like the lenses.

Sage Oracle user here I’m happy with it, but next time I’ll get a separate grinder and espresso machine.

I agree with others that the grind is all important. It should be done just before you make the coffee. You should get a burr grinder, not blade to ensure a uniform grind.

I don’t have milk in my coffee, but my partner does. She doesn’t use the included steamer, but instead has a separate frother - made by Nespresso I believe. She reckons it’s much better, and looks-wise she is right.

Basically: fresh beans you like and a good grind will get you good espresso.

Got a gaggia and sage grinder, took a while to get good coffee but turned out to be crap beans not the hardware.

I've got a spare brand new warranty replacement sage grinder I ought to stick on the 'bay.

@ratherbeintogabo I have a Sage Bambino Plus bought right at the beginning of lockdown from the German refurb place, can't remember the name of it but I bought the top graded one and it was an open box return, had never been used and only cost be £190.

Yes it's a bit easy to move but it doesn't really bother me but I do have to hold it with one hand whilst inserting or removing the portafilter. Would be nice if it didn't but it's not end of the world.

For me it's the right balance, it makes alright coffee and is pretty simple to use, it also does a good job of automatically frothing milk but I appreciate you said this wasn't a priority. I like coffee but am by no means a snob so it works for me andeams I don't have to dedicate loads of time to it.

Had anyone used ese pods?

I've used ESE pods and found that they're a step up from Nespresso but a bit limiting in terms of available pods. I got mine from coffeeroyale.co.uk. Ultimately I converted my ESE machine to just using a normal basket, which maybe tells you something 🙂

I thought there was an issue with ESE pods only being a ‘single’ shot? Edit - looks like you can get double pods, though not sure if they fit in a standard ESE portafilter

Someone was suggesting Black Donkey pods which I’d meant to google.

Thinking further about this, 7g of coffee in an ESE pod is about the same as what’s in an Nespresso capsule, and presumably ESE pods being made of paper can go in the compost bin?

7g isn't very much coffee for an espresso though. I'd reckon on using at least double that, and then double that weight for the extracted shot.

Thinking further about this, 7g of coffee in an ESE pod is about the same as what’s in an Nespresso capsule, and presumably ESE pods being made of paper can go in the compost bin?

Don't know much about ESE at all - do they keep them fresh by putting each one in it's own little packet? If so then that would make it harder to justify them on environmental grounds.

If you're used to an espresso from a Nespresso machine then a proper espresso from an espresso machine might taste quite different. I don't know what your budget is but for a decent entry level machine and grinder you'll realistically be looking at over £500 and can quite easily get into four figures if you want something slightly more fancy.

I think the talk of espresso being a hobby isn't strictly true, if you want great espresso every day then it might be hard work but if you just like a decent small, strong coffee then it doesn't have to be too much hassle. Having decent equipment and using good, freshly ground beans should beat a Nespresso.

@stevious That’s a fair point.

Does anyone know?

Got a Jura bean to cup off of marketplace (looks like originally it was over 5 grand AUD)

Paid $200 and it's fabulous. Only problem is once you have access to a espresso at the touch of a button, you'll drink more. I think most days I've had 2-3 esperessi before I've left the house!

Delonghi et al – cheap, not really an espresso machine because they don’t make it by high pressure through a compressed puck of coffee, rather they just steep grinds in water. Presumably still quite faffy

Rubbish 🙂 The Delonghi's are in your 'bean to cup' category. They spit out pucks of coffee alongside a strong espresso with crema. I just set the temperature preference when I got it years ago, and normally leave it on the finest grind but occasionally, depending on the beans, need to move it one or two clicks coarser when the machine aborts and dumps the puck after expelling two teaspoons of water into the mug!

I was always tempted by a 'proper' espresso machine and grinder but my brother jumped in head first and turns out he has to mess about every time he changes beans, I like coffee but when I'm leaving for work in five minutes and need to open a new bag, I don't want to have three attempts to fill my travel mug!

Yes ESE pods are in their own foil packet like a condom :-). Making 2 double espressos is a world of faff !!

@DrJ Is that four pods then?

Never actually googled what they are before, but ESE sounds like a fairly crap halfway-house solution tbh!

Is there such a thing as bean to cup machine that you can periodically use different coffee? Starting to think I need to invest in a b2c.

I’ve seen B2C machines with two hoppers that you can choose between. The machine I’ve got (sage oracle) is similar to a B2C but not. Possibly occupies its own niche! You could use the integrated grinder/tamper most of the time but then optionally grind (with separate grinder) different beans & tamp them yourself.

I went Sage Bambino Plus with the Sage standalone grinder, very happy with it.

My espresso settings is grind 18, time 11.2 seconds for a double

Had a Gaggia classic for years before I bought my Rocket R58. Take care with the grind and brew ratio and the Gaggia will deliver a fantastic coffee especially given the price difference between it and the Rocket. Works well with a naked portafilter and will handle a much finer grind than many others at that price point. The new classic with the upgraded steam wand looks pretty much the business.

Avoid Bean to Cup in my opinion. They're a nightmare to clean, taste burnt, and you can't properly control the grind.

Nespresso - may as well just add water to an ashtray.

Sage are good, but personally I don't like the intergrated grinder idea or the small sized portafilter.

I'd be shopping for a Gaggia classic or setting up ebay alerts for a Rocket apartmento or similar.

Couldn't bring myself to go for the the mega expensive, so:

have a Sage duotemp pro which is a half way house to a twin boiler - different temps for the brew and steam wand

Have a Hario Skerton hand grinder which is adjustable and you get to know how your grind is from the resistance, and can work out by sight how much you need. too fine and the sage just gets swamped, too coarse and the coffee is watery. Took a couple of hours of faffing and now sorted

Worth getting freshly roasted from your local roaster.

It's a short ritual to make a decent coffee, but that is a bit of headspace in a working day

Nespresso – may as well just add water to an ashtray.

I think the general trend is away from Nespresso here. The man Hoffman has Views on Nespresso, as you'd expect.

I think the general trend is away from Nespresso here.

TBF to Nestlé, Nespresso pods have always been recyclable (by them) but it does mean shipping heavy bags of aluminium and used coffee round the country. A lot of the third party Nespresso pods and other pod systems, on the other hand…

TBF to Nestlé, Nespresso pods have always been recyclable (by them) but it does mean shipping heavy bags of aluminium and used coffee round the country.

I bought a Sage Barista Express last Xmas. It was a relatively steep learning curve to start with but easy enough to apply what I've learnt to any other machine now.

You have to be a bit OCD and keep all your variables consistent otherwise you'll struggle to figure out why your coffee tastes the way it does.

You'll want some scales to weigh coffee in vs coffee out.

Knowing what I know now i'd wish i'd gone for something like a Niche Zero grinder and a Flair - I don't do milk drinks though.

Sage Barista Pro here. Just coming up to three years of ownership. Had Delonghi B2C before. Integrated grinder might not be the best, but over the years I've got pretty good at working out what works, Mostly as we use a local roaster and there are about four different blends they produce which I tend to stick with. So I know what setting I need for each. Fresh beans, clean water, constant grind and tamp(!) and you're pretty much there.

Machine has been faultless. Defo worth changing filter in the water res every three months, and I do follow the flush/clean alerts. Don't use the frother much but it does the job if that's your thing. Obviously nowhere near as good as a double boiler, but I probably use it 5 times a year for visitors. Strictly double espressos for me!

I also clean the grinder every couple of months. Sage recommends you run it empty which sounds horrible but apparently is good practice.

Also watched a lot of vids on YT, but now just do my own thing. Test for me is it's rare I can get a coffee as good from a cafe/pub (over-roasted, burnt, water too hot, too much water, etc, etc) and everyone who has a cup from my Sage seems to rate it.

I did look at getting an Oracle but I can't justify it.

I did look at getting an Oracle but I can’t justify it.

Probably worth adding that once you get the hang of making a decent coffee you will have completely ruined the experience of drinking a coffee from a cafe 90% of the time!

@DrJ Is that four pods then?

Yes 🙁

Never actually googled what they are before, but ESE sounds like a fairly crap halfway-house solution tbh!

Not really. The coffee is better than Nespresso IMO, and the faff factor is similar. I actually started using them in a handpresso type thing which kind of made sense in reducing mess outside.

. Fairly easy to justify though if it stops you buying coffee out (which I never do now unless on holiday!)

mmm saw some around that price, but still not a justifiable upgrade from the Barista Pro. I did consider putting a second machine in my shed where I work most of the time. But that wouldn't end well!

As above I've pretty much ruined any chance of enjoying a shot outside of my own kitchen. 2nd hand Europiccola combined with a Eureka Mignon Crono (2020 version) is my budget setup which has the potential to make incredible little shots. I say potential as the margin for error is small and even after 1k+ shots pulled I still make silly mistakes.

I had a Breville/Sage Barista Express since they first came out. Must be over twelve years ago.
In that time it needed O rings replacing a couple of times. Cost $2 and look it up on the tube.
I get beans from our restaurant supplier, so they're always consistent & I seldom need to adjust my method now.
2 years ago I replaced it with the Dual boiler & grinder combo. Added a bottomless filter & a nice, heavy tamper. Now I can have a flat white made before my toast has popped up.

Yeah - I don't know whether I agree with the "home espresso is a hobby" thing. Mine took a few months (and one change of equipment) before I was making better coffee than most (very decent)independent coffee shops. Haven't changed it since then.

My advice would be to buy yourself a cheap "proof of concept" setup to have a bit of a go with - that will give you an indication of whether its going to be something that you can be bothered with. It will also give you a better understanding of what's important (in general, but also to you specifically) which you can then target and improve.

some basic guidance/advice is:

As long as the machine itself meets the basic standard (stable pressure and temp), it's largely irrelevant. Sage Bambino is a good call. If you want to steam milk, then machine choice is more important.

Grinder is much (much) more important. Again, the Sage/Breville is about as budget as you can go and get something that can grind fine enough. Even then, this will be what holds your coffee back - but is a good place to start. All this talk of dialing-in the beans being a faff fairly soon disappears. I switch beans about every week, and I just tweak the dial back a blonde-hair before pulling the first shot - it's usually good enough, but maybe a half-hair either way on the second shot and it's bob-on. As the beans age I might tweak it once more - but thats it.

You need scales. Seems knobby, but you need a set of scales to measure your output: good espresso is all about the ratio of grinds-in to espresso-out. You just want some that are capable to 0.1g and that have a timer on also - as this'll help you dial-in your beans.

time: 11.2 seconds

That's way too quick. Whatever input/output you are using, you want to look at hitting that output in 25-30ish seconds. If you are getting your desired weight-out/volume after 11 seconds, you are grinding way too coarse.

A good rule of thumb is 2:1. Twice as much output vs grind "dose". I typically use 22g in and 44g out, but vary that slightly depending on the beans. But it's a good quide. A standard "double" is 18g in and about 36g. Your basket will be marked for the weight of grinds you are supposed to use.

When you are starting-out, "puck prep" is very important. If the grinds in your portafilter are clumpy, or not evenly distributed, you'll get "squirters" or "channels" in your puck. This means that most/all the water travels via the path of least resistance in your puck, making your coffee taste like simultaneously weak/burned piss. This is easy to fix - just but a cheap "WDT tool" from the internet and stir the grinds in the portafilter before you tamp. Seriously, makes a huge difference starting out, as it means that your shot time/volume (see above) is consistent - allowing you then just to adjust the grind size. If you don't touch the grind size, and one shot pulls at 40 seconds, and the other at 15...... it's your puck prep. Ones with thinner needles work best - avoid the ones with loops on the end of the wires. You can use a straightened paper-clip if you want a proof-of-concept.

So yeah - once you get set-up, it's not a burden at all: grinding, puck prep and pulling a shot takes me roughly a minute an a half. Steaming the milk about another minute.

Hopefully not too ****y? I fear I may have lost people with the "puck prep" bit, but honestly, it makes a huge difference with consistency, which in turn makes everything else easier. Can't remember the last time I pulled a dud.

Edit (forgot one): If you are using a grinder with a hopper - keep the hopper FULL, particularly if your grinder is timer-based: ie: your dose of ground coffee depends on how long it's pre-set to run for. Anything approaching half-empty will likely under-dose you. If you are seeing sloppy-pucks, then it's probably this. Also, if the hopper is so empty that the beans are pinging-up back into the hopper, the grind size within the puck will be really inconsistent. Both of these things will explain why your shot time is not consistent, even though you haven't changed the grind size between shots.

Some good advice from Batfink but the final para creates a variable. It's generally accepted that single dosing by weighing the beans for each shot directly from a sealed container will improve consistency. If you half fill the hopper the beans beans at the top are being exposed to air for longer periods before grinding.

Lots of good advice here that I don't need to add to. I've recently given one of my old repaired Gaggia Classics (I'm known as a handyman and people just give me their old broken machines when they "upgrade" to a Sage) to my daughter.
For Christmas they asked for a grinder, and, to prove they are now real converts, the absolute indispensable essential...

...a knock out box.

It’s generally accepted that single dosing by weighing the beans for each shot directly from a sealed container will improve consistency

agreed in theory, but given the hopper size on something like the sage smart grinder, I wouldn’t think it makes that much difference in-the-cup at this point. Unless the op is making 1 shot every 3 days.

I went from a refurbed mazzer super jolly, to a niche zero, and would encourage everyone to buy a single dose grinder (once they have determined that they are interested in making their own coffee).

I put a grind timer into my super jolly, and the weight of grounds varied massively depending on how many beans were in the hopper.

Avoid Bean to Cup in my opinion. They’re a nightmare to clean, taste burnt, and you can’t properly control the grind.

Used some crap b2c then have you ?

Jura e8 super auto here upgraded from a delonghi magnifica -more than happy with the Jura.

Nearly bought a manual but like spooky I didn't want a fight for my coffee every morning.

I fell down the rabbit hole 6 months ago. I fancied learning how to make proper espresso and milk based stuff. We’d previously had a Delonghi bean to cup that I thought was ok.

Rather than go ‘cheap’ I thought to buy good stuff with easy resale if it wasn’t for me. So now we have a Gaggia Classic pro modded to 9bar, a Niche Zero grinder and all the usual bit, Motta tamp tool, needle tool, scales etc.

I’ve realised now how bad the bean to cup was for flavour! However, as I’m out the house sharpish in the morning weekdays and don’t need milk based drinks, I tend to use the Niche to grind for the Aeropress and take an Americano or whatever and save the Espresso for the weekend when I have a bit more time to savour it. No hassle at all and good coffee ready to go in not much longer than people take to make a cup of instant.

one thing i have observed of late is that many cafes could do to get a super auto and at least have a consistant coffee..

recently had some awful coffee from a really high end commercial machine - using quality beans. At a satelite store of a very good coffee shop...... it honestly tasted like nescafe..... if i hadnt seen her making it id have sworn it was nescafe.

the other one ive noticed more and more is "coffee machine operators" fill the milk jug - stick it under the wand - set it down and walk off doing other things ...... not to be the **** but i do explain im happy to pay for the milky coffee i ordered but please don't put the milk in the coffee just leave it black.

Why chance stale beans Batfink. It only takes a few seconds to open a sealed container so seems odd not to make it part of the routine. I can single dose using the manual override on my Eureka Mignon, closing the gate stops 'popcorning'. There's really no need for everyone to buy a Niche for more than double the price.

Your Mazzer is a budget commercial grinder engineered for a commercial setting.

I've gone completely the other way, and now one of my treats is that next door to where I buy the bread for the week is a nice little cafe that does more than passable espresso. As I'm up early on a Sat, i get to sit in a nice cafe that's largely empty and free of idiots, some nice chitty-chat with the pretty barista, and watch the world wake up.

* What’s a good starter machine (bearing in mind the above mentioned Hoffman rabbit hole is bad for things like needing a PID machine…)?

Late to the party here, but another vote for Sage, in my case the Barista bean-to-cup machine. Although it's all-in-one, there's a frankly surprising amount of adjustability in there, from the volume and fineness of the grind, to the precise water temperature, amount of water, etc. Once you've got it set up just how you like, it makes the exact same espresso time after time. And the steam wand is excellent.

Only slight concern is mine has developed a small leak from the base on one side, which suggests it needs a service; but it's worth it in my books

I appreciate everyone is different, but once you have a routine, making espresso (rather than just pushing a button on a machine) isn't that difficult. If it was, I wouldn't be able to do it first thing in the morning before I've had coffee.

I went full manual: Rok lever machine, and later the Rok manual grinder. Yes, I have to boil the kettle, weigh beans, grind, preheat portafilter, dose and tamp, pull shot, knock out puck, rinse portafilter, wipe shower screen, but I could do it in my sleep now, and sometimes I think I do. Worth it for decent coffee but YMMV.

In total contradiction to everyone else on here...

Cheap Beko machine (£85) and Lavazza Rosso pre-ground. Works lovely.

Cheap Beko machine (£85) and Lavazza Rosso pre-ground. Works lovely.

+1 for the puck prep thing mentioned above.  It adds a few seconds to the process and really does help the consistency.  My 'distribution tool' is just half a dozen fine needles, actually intended for cleaning 3D printers, taped onto an old wine cork.

this kind of thing - Juliyeh 20 Pcs Nozzle Cleaning Needles Stainless Steel Nozzle Cleaning Tool 3D Printer Clean Accessories for 3D Printer Nozzle, Black : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

Otherwise using a cheap DeLonghi manual machine (EC330 Icona I think) along with a somewhat extravagant Eureka Mignon Silenzio for grinding as the previous Krups cheap grinder was hopeless for Espresso and the hand grinder was just getting annoying.

Probably worth adding that once you get the hang of making a decent coffee you will have completely ruined the experience of drinking a coffee from a cafe 90% of the time!

So true.

Except that the very best cafes make a coffee much better than I can and now I really appreciate them.

The rest of them - bleurch - drink tea (which is surprisingly decent in Starbucks).

In total contradiction to everyone else on here…

Same here, but with a Swan one that has a milk reservoir on the side and makes a cappuccino at the touch of a button.
Oh and Aldi pre-ground coffee. Either the Espresso or French blend. Neither are as fine as a proper espresso grind but I like the coffee it makes and that makes me happy.

Got a Gaggia Classic about a year ago and started off the hard way with pre-ground coffee. It so difficult to get consistently good coffee when someone else is grinding it.

Once I got my own grinder (Sage Smart Pro) its so much faster, and consistent. Usually takes a couple of cups to get the grind/time bang on when you try a new coffee variety. But after that its a doddle. I just keep a notebook with the grind/weight that I've settled on for past coffees to refer to. Having a single dose timer built into the grinder is brilliant.

We have a £1600 bean-to-cup machine at work, and I can make a much better espresso at home.

Idly looking at machines on the internets - is 15 min warm up time typical?

Lavazza Rosso for weekday mornings might not be the worst idea ever 🤔

Idly looking at machines on the internets – is 15 min warm up time typical?

Thats on the faster side - but it’s really variable depending on the machine. Most of the warm-up time in traditional machines is about getting the grouphead (which contain a lot of thermal mass by design) up to temp. But some machines have thermocoil instead, which don’t then require all that thermal mass.

Sage Bambino... 3 seconds from cold!

Although I do then fire some water through to warm up the group head and portafilter.
Still, it's ready to go sooner than my old Nespresso machine.

As mentioned before, I'm glad I threw most of the budget at the grinde; the Niche Zero is just ace to use. Still occasionally use the old Q1 hand grinder for Aeropress use as its grinds hopper fits the AP perfectly👍

Question for all the Sage (and other brand) owners: what do you use for descaling? And what's the procedure?

Question for all the Sage (and other brand) owners: what do you use for descaling? And what’s the procedure?

Descaling I use liquid descaler in the water tank and run it through the system. Basically following the Sage instructions.

As for cleaning, again just follow the instructions. They supply a couple of tablets with it and after I used those I bought some cafiza powder (same stuff but in powder not tablet form and way way cheaper).

My Sage Bambino notifies you with flashing lights when either of the above need doing

I backflush my Gaggia weekly with some Cafiza and descale monthly with liquid as even though I filter our water it’s as hard as brick ends.

@kingofhtefr - Technically you risk leaving more retained coffee in the grinder overnight, which then exchanges with what you use the next day. Whether that matters to you in reality is another matter! 🤔

Most single dose grinders minimise the retained coffee volume, wipers/augers/grind path. So super easy to swap bean types and between say espresso/filter with more consistent results.

It is a bit of a rabbit hole…

not actually done it yet so I should probably look into that soon!

Same! The cleaning tablets are fine, and the process is dead easy, but I've not got to descaling yet

Most single dose grinders minimise the retained coffee volume, wipers/augers/grind path. So super easy to swap bean types and between say espresso/filter with more consistent results.

Cleaning out your grinder is one more use for your cheap Aldi compressor 🙂

For descaling the Sage i use these sachets and run through a couple of fills of clean water. They also have a water filter for the reservoir.

I do this only a bit more frequently than i do my fork lowers

https://www.hartsofstur.com/sage-the-descaler-bes007uk.html

I got an ESE pod specific machine from illy. Very happy with the convenience/quality ratio.
Only downside is having to get pods online rather than from shop. Plenty to choose from though

Question for all the Sage (and other brand) owners: what do you use for descaling? And what’s the procedure?

Luckily, the water is really great quality where I live. No build up of scale on anything. My old Nespresso has never been descaled in 15+ years!

You could go full third wave and use fancy water... lol... probably not 🙂

@kimura54321 I purge the grinder before every shot. The Eureka Mignon retains <1g so the wastage is minimal.