[Closed] Espresso pump machine advice please

You're pretty much describing a Gaggia Classic or a Rancilio Silvia.

I can get 2 mugs filled on my Sage duo. Rotary dial for coffee or steam.

Recently got a Sage Duo temp pro and really happy with it. Makes great coffee

BlindMelon
Member

Recently got a Sage Duo temp pro and really happy with it. Makes great coffee

These have a non-pressurised baskets included right? Do they make a tasty espresso with nice crema etc?

Unsure what you mean by non pressurised basket?
It works the same as a full sized machine and makes great coffee but I am no expert.

bear-uk
Member

Unsure what you mean by non pressurised basket?
It works the same as a full sized machine and makes great coffee but I am no expert.

Trust me I'm not an expert either. I'm just replacing a broken Delonghi which didn't make very nice coffee so I've been reading far too much about it!

From what I gather the pressurised basket makes it easier to get an acceptable cup of coffee when the coffee isn't quite ground perfectly etc as it forces water through all the grounds. You can make a slightly better coffee with a non-pressurised basket but all the elements need to be right- power of the machine, amount of coffee, fineness of the grind etc.

The Duo Temp seems to get good reviews and looks to be available for about £250 at the moment which is decent.

Hi retro it’s a low pressure extraction like a commercial machine. However it comes with separate baskets for pre ground coffee or freshly ground. The pre ground basket is dual wall which I believe increases the pressure regardless of the grind.

I’ve only had it a couple of weeks and have tried pre ground and also freshly ground using a Krups grinder, the results are great with both tbh.

Any questions just ask

And of course, don't forget to invest in a good burr grinder - they make all the difference.

BlindMelon
Member

Hi retro it’s a low pressure extraction like a commercial machine. However it comes with separate baskets for pre ground coffee or freshly ground. The pre ground basket is dual wall which I believe increases the pressure regardless of the grind.

I’ve only had it a couple of weeks and have tried pre ground and also freshly ground using a Krups grinder, the results are great with both tbh.

Any questions just ask

Sounds ideal, thanks.

It certainly pressurizes the ground beans. Just try removing the basket when you get the grind to fine and it won't let the water through.
Coffee grinds everywhere 😳

One thing to add, if you're going to be frothing lots of milk, consider a dual boiler machine. The Gagia and Rancillio Silva are single boiler and you have to wait for the temp to increase to froth once you've pulled your espressos. Then if you want more espresso, you need to wait for the temp to drop. It's a RPIA. I'm a semi philistine and prefer a flat white/latte hybrid so nuke my milk which avoids the issue...

One thing to add, if you’re going to be frothing lots of milk, consider a dual boiler machine. The Gagia and Rancillio Silva are single boiler and you have to wait for the temp to increase to froth once you’ve pulled your espressos

While this is true, a dual boiler machine is likely to set you back about £1k. So although I would like a dual boiler, I can cope with waiting the 20 seconds my Gaggia takes to make steam.

Single boiler machines struggle to produce enough steam power to make decent milk drinks. This said, I’ve trained people on Gaggias and had them pouring latte art tulips by the end of the sessions. It’s bit more hit and miss than a dual boiler or HX machine, though.

Pressurised baskets are absolute rubbish - you’ll never get decent coffee with one. If you claim you can then I’d question your ability to discern good from bad.

JP

Thanks for the tips. We're going from a drip filter, already using a decent grinder but I do like a decent brew.

If you claim you can then I’d question your ability to discern good from bad.

Id disagree, whilst i am aware of your previous experience as a barista trainer id call into question your ability to discern what tastes good to an individual - if folk are happy using a pressurised basket and drinking the result then who are you to disagree with them.

And a sage duo temp pro for the win btw.

Look - that subjectivist argument is obviously nonsense. It’s analogous to saying that Eastenders is high art to some people, therefore I can’t say that it’s objectively of no artistic value.

There are objective measures of what makes something good - or are you so perverse that you’d argue that instant coffee is as good as a flat white made by a skilled barista?

JP

There are objective measures of what makes something good

I agree yet preference of taste is entirely subjective to the individual, perhaps it does not meet your elitist extraction standards but if it tastes good to them then I know who I’d rather share a brew with.

Blimey; now this is a typical STW argument..... 😁

I've no idea what those dual/multi basket jobbies are so give up. When researching 'home espresso', I came up with the Rancillio Silva as the machine in pole position BUT the advice was to spend as much again on grinder. I'm not in the buyers market ATM so maybe that's changed?

Initially, I frothed and heated milk with the machine but found it a faff to wait for it to heat up post espresso pull. It's a while ago but I don't recall it being '20 seconds'. I find, for flat white/not very latte'd latte, nuked milk is indistinguishable from machine frothed milk. Obviously, cappa is a completely different kettle of Nescafe... YMMV etc

On the back of this thread I've finally got around to ordering some single wall baskets (they are only £5!). Be interesting to see what difference it makes. I struggle to get anything nice out of the machine currently using the single shot double wall basket (it seems to be too restrictive and the machine ends up blowing off). The double shot basket works much better but its does not feel like I need anywhere near the 20kg force when tamping.

OK, now I understand what these new fangled pressurised baskets are.

So if you can reliably control, pressure, temp, grind and tamp force with repeatable results, you should be fine with non pressurised. For you wobbly home jockeys that don't/can't, the pressurised basket helps mask the variability. N'est ce pas? 😊

That’s my understanding @bolbo. I use non pressurised in my (single boiler) SAGE after the place I bought it from gave me lots of great tips (and dispelled some myths) on how to make repeatable shots of espresso I really like.

Switching mine from shot to steam doesn’t seem to take long at all. I only ever make one cup so it’s not a problem it cooling down. Best thing I bought - which seemed a mad extravagance at the time - was the Sage jug with the built in temperature strip. Having watched a few (okay a lot) of vids on the best way to steam milk, I have an approach that seems to work.

For me anyway, and making hot chocolate for the kids!

I had a pressurised basket single boiler machine and never got a decent coffee from it, that's my personal experience. I moved to a manual espresso pump and decent grinder, I rarely get a bad coffee from them. I'm happy with what I have now, so happy in fact I'm going to go and make a coffee with it to celebrate!

Me too! Cheers! And I'm ganna nuke the milk 😁

Okay so an espresso machine with a non-pressurised basket. Which electric grinder to go with it?

Sage Pro.
Although it's not pressurised 😁

The received wisdom is not a cheap chopper, they can't get the 'grind' (read chopped up beans) fine enough for espresso. Apparently a burr grinder is the way to go, the more expensive the more reliable the grind and less likely it is to burn the grind (again 'apparently' - I was an audiofile for many years and detect the edges of snake oil territory...). They key is repeatability so your grind is always the same. The more expensive ones are apparently built to achieve that. Mine weighs more than Mrs Boblo 😁

I think my Macap M4 was about £400 from Italy. I've had it ~10 years and it's had a new, set of burrs in that time.

bear-uk
Member

Sage Pro.
Although it’s not pressurised 😁

**** me, 175 notes. I checked out the cheaper burr grinders on Amazon and they all have reviews saying they don't grind fine enough. So looking at £500 minimum with the machine and grinder.

Is it really this expensive to make an espresso!?

edit: looks like the delonghi kg79 can be modded to make a finer grind
https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/19372-delonghi-kg79-mod-advice-needed-please/

You can get a fine enough grind out of a hario if you are willing to put the work in.

With my sage duo machine I have to grind the beans to match the weight and pull time. I suppose this is how any other machine works.
So the fine grind is relevant to other factors. Never used mine below number 3. Any lower / finer will result in the machine unable to push water through the ground beans.

The Krups burr grinder is the canonical grinder as far as I'm concerned, <£50 new.

Is it really this expensive to make an espresso!?

Yes if you want a good set up that will repeat without constantly requiring re-adjustment. As the minor disagreement above illustrates some don't require this level of detail for each coffee. If you're happy with the result from what you have then it's perfect (for you).

rossburton
Subscriber

The Krups burr grinder is the canonical grinder as far as I’m concerned, <£50 new.
Posted 13 minutes ago

Yes I saw that one and the price is appealing, however there're a few reviews like this on Amazon which is offputting.

"By G. W. Parker on 30 September 2017
no good for espresso"

"By John Delaney jd on 09 August 2014
Trying to make espresso with no luck.… "

"By moses on 21 November 2019
Useless for good espresso coffee, perfectly fine for cafeteria plunger coffee, a Burr grinder is supposed to be for espresso coffee so a very disappointing purchase...."

You never know if they've done something else wrong though.

Sandwich

Yes if you want a good set up that will repeat without constantly requiring re-adjustment. As the minor disagreement above illustrates some don’t require this level of detail for each coffee. If you’re happy with the result from what you have then it’s perfect (for you).

THanks, I just want to avoid buy-cheap-buy-twice a few months down the line when I finally concede that the cheap one I bought can't do the job! I'm not requiring James Hoffmann levels of quality but something producing espresso or flat whites, cappucino etc approximating what can be bought from a reasonable cafe would be nice.

The Krups is what I had once and it didn't grind fine enough. There is a mod for this though, but I didn't go down that route and returned it instead. Been very happy with a Hario since, but making more than one or 2 espressos at a time would add in some time to the process. I think someone on here uses a drill to speed things up with a Hario.

I've now got the image of a hammer drill Knockin hell out of the beans 😅

Yeah if you looked at at as ££ per coffee, you probly wouldn't do it. Like mosr discretionary purchases, you're buying into it because you like it, you want it and you're not selling a kidney/putting the Mrs on the game to fund it.

As above, the advice around when I was buying was invest in the grinder. It'll give you better/more repeatable espresso.

The Sage Smart Grinder Pro seems to have been accepted as the least expensive grinder that gives reliable results - quite a few of us on here have them. Yes, £175 is a lot, but it's cheaper than most of the alternatives.

I’m an advocate of spend a lot on the grinder and what’s left on the coffee machine

I upgraded from a Krupps grinder to the Sage one and it made a hell of a difference in quality and taste of espressos. Plus it’s really quick and easy to adjust grind size for different uses (my parents prefer plunger coffee)

I have a second hand Gaggia which has been fine for 5yrs except for a gasket replacement (£5) and new thermal fuse (£5)

If I was buying new I’d definitely buy a dual boiler unless you only (and your guests only) drink espresso. The Gaggia is faffy for milk frothing, although upgrading the steam wand to the Rancilio one made a big difference

If you're ok with used, there will (sadly) be a lot of commercial grinders on eBay in the coming months. Am thinking of upgrading so might put mine on the classifieds soon.

The Sage Smart Grinder Pro seems to have been accepted as the least expensive grinder that gives reliable results – quite a few of us on here have them. Yes, £175 is a lot, but it’s cheaper than most of the alternatives.

The Sage Dose Control Pro is should produce the same grind quality at a cheaper price point (same burrs afaik).
It gets down to £130ish fairly regularly, although not that much cheaper than the Smart Grinder when it's also on offer.

I went for the Krups one at about £45 and for me it’s great. Only been at it a couple of weeks and I can get much better results than high st chains. The grind adjustment settings work well and you can experiment as you wish.
If I feel the need for something more expensive in the future then I will. But for now I’m very happy with it

Espresso pump machine advice please
BlindMelon
Member

I went for the Krups one at about £45 and for me it’s great. Only been at it a couple of weeks and I can get much better results than high st chains. The grind adjustment settings work well and you can experiment as you wish.
If I feel the need for something more expensive in the future then I will. But for now I’m very happy with it
Posted 20 hours ago

The mixed reviews make me wonder if it's a QC issue rather than a fundamental problem with the product. This is a minefield 😁

I bought an Iberital grinder about the size of a 4 year old sitting on the worktop. In the seven maybe 8 years I've had it I've never once cleaned it, no idea what the burrs look like or how to get to them, the hopper might be a wee bit oily from the beans but it works exactly as it should for me anyway. More new beans from the Bean Shop delivered tomorrow from Perth
I bought it from a cafe so no idea about its previous life

At Christmas I got a Sage Bambino Plus and a delonghi KG79 burr grinder for £260 total (John Lewis and Amazon). Can't fault either and makes a great espresso. Have tinkered with the milk frother on it which also satisfies my needs when a milky drink is required.